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R. I. P. - No Plane Theory, Jim Fetzer evading questions

onesliceshort
post May 2 2012, 10:56 PM
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I'm just going to jump straight in here. Basically Jim Fetzer has been evading these points I raised at "TruthandShadows" blogspot (820 posts later..)

Post 1.


From Simon Shack’s FAQ section:

QUOTE
The skeptics argue that “too many videos of the airplane were captured, therefore all cannot be fake …” Too many indeed: there are a simply ludicrous amount of “lucky” shots. In fact, the sheer amount of existing ‘airplane’ images is grossly absurd in itself: We now have more than 45 “amateur videos” (some of which were released – inexplicably – as late as June 2008!). We also have at least 10 still pictures depicting alleged “Flight 175” “in its very last second of flight” 


First off, the "lucky shots" description is ludicrous because thousands of New Yorkers were focused on this area after the strike on Tower 1.

According to the NPT accusations, that’s 55 people who allegedly, knowingly allowed their names to be publically used as authors of totally manipulated footage, or altered the footage themselves. 55 people, alleged “sleepers”, who “know” exactly what happened on 9/11 in Manhattan. That the towers were blown up by internal explosives and that a hologram was used to fool on the ground witnesses. 

That’s a lot of loose ends.





Please also check the above collection of still images for debris falling from the impact side of the facade.

I agree that certain footage has been edited, withheld, censored or have had their resolution purposely lessened. The Naudet second tower impact has clearly been edited, one Citgo camera was physically removed, the "gatecam" footage which was capable of reading registrations on vehicles has been purposely reuploaded (at least twice) to make the footage useless etc. 

But to insinuate that an actual army of ops actually added an aircraft to footage caught? And adding them perfectly to match the flightpath?



So how can people who allege that all footage is a complete fabrication and that it's been in the perps'  hands literally from day one, base any scientific claims on observations made in them??

Even the claim that no aircraft debris was seen falling from the impact side doesn't stand up to scrutiny. Pause and play the impact seen in the following video. Slowmo if you can.



Then there's this:



I don't know if there is any footage of the base of that area, but the collapse of the tower also leaves the debris claim open to obfuscation.

We have to remember that this aircraft was allegedly travelling at over 700 feet per second. Over 4 times its own length travelled in one second as it impacted the facade.

The length of the fuselage from the nose to the wings is 60ft. The aircraft's recorded speed would cover that 60ft distance in less than a tenth of a second.

When the 60ft of fuselage appears to penetrate the facade, this could be down to optical illusion. The event was over in one tenth of a second.

Here's a video that's as close as I could find to the collision of a hard steel object (steel sled) against a bulky object such as the fuselage. A car.

Normal speed



Slow motion (pay attention to the actual collision at the beginning of the video)



See how the car appears to "melt" or "disappear"? The actual interaction was over in a fraction of a second.
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Tamborine man
post May 11 2012, 10:48 PM
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Agreed, elreb -

Cheers
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23investigator
post May 12 2012, 04:32 AM
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QUOTE (Tamborine man @ May 12 2012, 12:18 PM) *
Agreed, elreb -

Cheers


Dear 'Tamborine man'

Please forgive me, but needed somewhere to tag this onto.
Just dealing, with the Boeing 757 -first-, that is the Pentagon.

Mr Bob Pugh, had no doubt in his mind, right from the first instant, that it did not appear a large commercial aircraft had come in impact with the Pentagon wall.
He expressed also there was no collatoral damage to support such a notion, in fact reporting the hole he saw in the wall as no more than 16 feet wide, as he expressed it, the size of a 'domestic garage door'.
This can be viewed on you tube --9/11 truth: Pentagon Eye Witness Bob Pugh Tells his story.
http://youtu.be/-xtEJ4zrlPM

On the same video, at 4:41 a Gentleman is handling a piece of debris, which people about comment could be part of the undercarriage of an aircraft, other comment made argued against this, saying it was too small.
Whoever made that comment was on the 'money', there can be little doubt, in fact when carefully considered, the part looks to have come away from another part of an aircraft, which was most definitely not a Boeing 757.
Another video on you tube --9/11 Pentagon Explosion and missing plane wreckage
http://youtu.be/YSGK13Cgg
At 9:41, shows the same gentleman holding the same piece of debris.

Another video on you tube -- Witness D C 9/11
http://youtu.be/DifwsjF8X5L
At 10:54 shows a Gentleman handling a piece of debris, with every appearance, of being ripped from some sort of aircraft. A person in the background can be heard to say --that is not from a commercial aircraft-- it is too thin, and comes from a smaller plane--, or words to that effect.
There can be little doubt that the man's opinion was on the 'money'.

It is puzzling to consider, why these instance of hard evidence, are being ignored, and the people involved have not been sought out, for their observations.

Robert S
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23investigator
post Jun 4 2015, 06:07 AM
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QUOTE (23investigator @ May 12 2012, 06:02 PM) *
Dear 'Tamborine man'

Please forgive me, but needed somewhere to tag this onto.
Just dealing, with the Boeing 757 -first-, that is the Pentagon.

Mr Bob Pugh, had no doubt in his mind, right from the first instant, that it did not appear a large commercial aircraft had come in impact with the Pentagon wall.
He expressed also there was no collatoral damage to support such a notion, in fact reporting the hole he saw in the wall as no more than 16 feet wide, as he expressed it, the size of a 'domestic garage door'.
This can be viewed on you tube --9/11 truth: Pentagon Eye Witness Bob Pugh Tells his story.
http://youtu.be/-xtEJ4zrlPM

On the same video, at 4:41 a Gentleman is handling a piece of debris, which people about comment could be part of the undercarriage of an aircraft, other comment made argued against this, saying it was too small.
Whoever made that comment was on the 'money', there can be little doubt, in fact when carefully considered, the part looks to have come away from another part of an aircraft, which was most definitely not a Boeing 757.
Another video on you tube --9/11 Pentagon Explosion and missing plane wreckage
http://youtu.be/YSGK13Cgg
At 9:41, shows the same gentleman holding the same piece of debris.

Another video on you tube -- Witness D C 9/11
http://youtu.be/DifwsjF8X5L
At 10:54 shows a Gentleman handling a piece of debris, with every appearance, of being ripped from some sort of aircraft. A person in the background can be heard to say --that is not from a commercial aircraft-- it is too thin, and comes from a smaller plane--, or words to that effect.
There can be little doubt that the man's opinion was on the 'money'.

It is puzzling to consider, why these instance of hard evidence, are being ignored, and the people involved have not been sought out, for their observations.

Robert S


Dear 'NP1Mike' and 'Tamborine Man'

Please forgive me for this route to bring forward this comment.

(1) In the case above: it is very clear from viewing the video that these were not rehearsed comments.

(2) In the case of Tower two: there were some comments made by people who appear not to have rehearsed their lines.

They clearly and articulately stated that the aircraft they had just seen hit tower two was not a large commercial airliner such as a Boeing 767.

It seems these people have become lost in the fog of illusion that no doubt kicked into high gear after both these terrible events.

Robert S
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23investigator
post Jun 6 2015, 02:32 AM
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QUOTE (23investigator @ Jun 4 2015, 07:37 PM) *
Dear 'NP1Mike' and 'Tamborine Man'

Please forgive me for this route to bring forward this comment.

(1) In the case above: it is very clear from viewing the video that these were not rehearsed comments.

(2) In the case of Tower two: there were some comments made by people who appear not to have rehearsed their lines.

They clearly and articulately stated that the aircraft they had just seen hit tower two was not a large commercial airliner such as a Boeing 767.

It seems these people have become lost in the fog of illusion that no doubt kicked into high gear after both these terrible events.

Robert S



Continuing the theme above.

There is a video in which a woman in a helicopter is in conversation with another woman back at a TV station.

Her initial account was that she had sighted the aircraft that actually hit Tower Two.

It most certainly did not seem she was talking about a large passenger aircraft.

In fact that conversation was clearly edited and again lost in the fog of illusion.

My personal appraisal of the video is that it is the most realistic of any of the video footage presented and still available to the public.

Not to say it has not been visually edited as well as the audio discussion between the two women: as it most definitely has.

The visual editing is by superimposing a white globe effect over the actual aircraft detail.

The aircraft is not anything like the proportions of a Boeing 767.

Robert S

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23investigator
post Jun 10 2015, 05:30 AM
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QUOTE (23investigator @ Jun 6 2015, 04:02 PM) *
Continuing the theme above.

There is a video in which a woman in a helicopter is in conversation with another woman back at a TV station.

Her initial account was that she had sighted the aircraft that actually hit Tower Two.

It most certainly did not seem she was talking about a large passenger aircraft.

In fact that conversation was clearly edited and again lost in the fog of illusion.

My personal appraisal of the video is that it is the most realistic of any of the video footage presented and still available to the public.

Not to say it has not been visually edited as well as the audio discussion between the two women: as it most definitely has.

The visual editing is by superimposing a white globe effect over the actual aircraft detail.

The aircraft is not anything like the proportions of a Boeing 767.

Robert S


More of above

In the first instance, the woman appears to refer to a 737.

She then modifies her comment to a very large aircraft, like a Boeing 747 or a DC9.

A male in the mix of conversation then says: "to be honest Elli, I did not get the impression that it was that 'bigger' plane".

I hope he kept his job: the world needs more honest people like that.

The conversation then fluctuated between: at least a 727 saw it a minute ago: and it was at least a 727, 727 or 737.

Robert S

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23investigator
post Jun 12 2015, 05:27 AM
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QUOTE (23investigator @ Jun 10 2015, 07:00 PM) *
More of above

In the first instance, the woman appears to refer to a 737.

She then modifies her comment to a very large aircraft, like a Boeing 747 or a DC9.

A male in the mix of conversation then says: "to be honest Elli, I did not get the impression that it was that 'bigger' plane".

I hope he kept his job: the world needs more honest people like that.

The conversation then fluctuated between: at least a 727 saw it a minute ago: and it was at least a 727, 727 or 737.

Robert S


There are various versions of the video I am referring to.

Like most videos on the internet over the issue of 9/11: quality varies greatly.

One thing is consistent: the aircraft involved is small: compared to the size of a Boeing 767.

Another: the aircraft follows the same flight path.

Perhaps the most significant: when the aircraft becomes visible an interesting thing happens.

Tower Two becomes wider on the side nearest Tower one.

To really appreciate this it is necessary to view all the videos labelled "chopper 4": and others showing the same event that are not so labelled.

If and when you view these videos: please ask yourself: how could Tower Two become wider (wider than Tower one): and WHY.

Robert S


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Posts in this topic
- onesliceshort   R. I. P. - No Plane Theory   May 2 2012, 10:56 PM
- - onesliceshort   Post 2. The impact hole http://img114.imageshack...   May 2 2012, 10:57 PM
- - onesliceshort   Post 3. The claim that the tower didn't budge (an...   May 2 2012, 10:58 PM
- - onesliceshort   Post 4. The claim that modification of the witnes...   May 2 2012, 11:01 PM
- - onesliceshort   Post 5. (please read thoroughly) The claim that h...   May 2 2012, 11:04 PM
- - onesliceshort   Post 6. Miscellaneous: "Fade to black...   May 2 2012, 11:06 PM
- - onesliceshort   Post 7. My own 2cents on other technology to aid ...   May 2 2012, 11:08 PM
- - amazed!   Terrific work OSS! I especially liked the foo...   May 3 2012, 03:04 PM
- - rob balsamo   Good work OSS... I've never actually before s...   May 3 2012, 05:24 PM
|- - onesliceshort   QUOTE (rob balsamo @ May 3 2012, 10:24 PM...   May 3 2012, 09:36 PM
- - Tamborine man   Hey, hold on just a minute or two here, dear OSS a...   May 4 2012, 11:54 AM
- - rob balsamo   QUOTE Every person in the whole 'wide' wor...   May 4 2012, 12:31 PM
- - onesliceshort   TM, I think the insinuation about Snowcrash and th...   May 4 2012, 10:19 PM
|- - Tamborine man   QUOTE (onesliceshort @ May 3 2012, 01:19 ...   May 5 2012, 04:54 AM
|- - Tamborine man   QUOTE (onesliceshort @ May 3 2012, 01:19 ...   May 7 2012, 02:04 AM
- - onesliceshort   QUOTE (tm)My worry is this: By declaring NPT for ...   May 7 2012, 09:02 AM
|- - Tamborine man   QUOTE (onesliceshort @ May 5 2012, 12:02 ...   May 7 2012, 11:11 PM
|- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (Tamborine man @ May 7 2012, 11:11 ...   May 7 2012, 11:43 PM
|- - Tamborine man   QUOTE (rob balsamo @ May 6 2012, 02:43 AM...   May 8 2012, 08:35 AM
|- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (Tamborine man @ May 8 2012, 08:35 ...   May 8 2012, 09:01 AM
|- - bpete1969   QUOTE (rob balsamo @ May 8 2012, 09:01 AM...   May 15 2012, 09:58 PM
|- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (bpete1969 @ May 15 2012, 09:58 PM)...   May 15 2012, 11:37 PM
- - amazed!   Famous line from Cool Hand Luke--what we have here...   May 8 2012, 08:44 AM
|- - Tamborine man   QUOTE (amazed! @ May 6 2012, 11:44 AM...   May 8 2012, 09:04 AM
- - onesliceshort   QUOTE Nevertheless, i'll continue to defend th...   May 8 2012, 03:19 PM
|- - Tamborine man   QUOTE (onesliceshort @ May 6 2012, 06:19 ...   May 9 2012, 01:52 AM
|- - elreb   QUOTE (Tamborine man @ May 8 2012, 07:52 ...   May 10 2012, 06:44 PM
|- - 23investigator   QUOTE (elreb @ May 11 2012, 08:14 AM) I f...   May 11 2012, 07:22 AM
- - amazed!   Agreed, Elreb!   May 11 2012, 02:56 PM
- - Tamborine man   Agreed, elreb - Cheers   May 11 2012, 10:48 PM
|- - 23investigator   QUOTE (Tamborine man @ May 12 2012, 12:18...   May 12 2012, 04:32 AM
|- - 23investigator   QUOTE (23investigator @ May 12 2012, 06:0...   Jun 4 2015, 06:07 AM
|- - 23investigator   QUOTE (23investigator @ Jun 4 2015, 07:37...   Jun 6 2015, 02:32 AM
|- - 23investigator   QUOTE (23investigator @ Jun 6 2015, 04:02...   Jun 10 2015, 05:30 AM
|- - 23investigator   QUOTE (23investigator @ Jun 10 2015, 07:0...   Jun 12 2015, 05:27 AM
|- - 23investigator   QUOTE (23investigator @ Jun 12 2015, 06:5...   Jun 14 2015, 07:41 AM
|- - 23investigator   QUOTE (23investigator @ Jun 14 2015, 09:1...   Jun 19 2015, 11:51 AM
|- - NP1Mike   QUOTE (23investigator @ Jun 19 2015, 10:5...   Jun 19 2015, 05:11 PM
|- - 23investigator   QUOTE (NP1Mike @ Jun 20 2015, 06:41 AM) A...   Jun 20 2015, 01:03 AM
|- - 23investigator   QUOTE (NP1Mike @ Jun 20 2015, 06:41 AM) A...   Jun 20 2015, 01:03 AM
|- - 23investigator   QUOTE (NP1Mike @ Jun 20 2015, 06:41 AM) A...   Jun 20 2015, 01:05 AM
|- - 23investigator   QUOTE (NP1Mike @ Jun 20 2015, 06:41 AM) A...   Jun 20 2015, 01:05 AM
|- - 23investigator   QUOTE (23investigator @ Jun 20 2015, 02:3...   Jun 24 2015, 05:04 AM
- - amazed!   Robert For me, all 3 of those YouTubes were ...   May 12 2012, 11:34 AM
|- - 23investigator   QUOTE (amazed! @ May 13 2012, 01:04 A...   May 12 2012, 08:21 PM
- - onesliceshort   Bump   Feb 20 2014, 06:23 AM
- - onesliceshort   QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Feb 20 2014, 11:23...   Feb 24 2014, 08:38 PM
- - NP1Mike   QUOTE (onesliceshort @ Feb 24 2014, 07:38...   Feb 24 2014, 09:40 PM
- - Alpha66   QUOTE (NP1Mike @ Feb 24 2014, 09:40 PM) I...   Jun 3 2015, 08:44 AM
- - NP1Mike   QUOTE (Alpha66 @ Jun 3 2015, 07:44 AM) PL...   Jun 3 2015, 06:47 PM


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