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Pilots For 9/11 Truth Forum _ World Trade Center Complex _ Firefighter: Giuliani 'ran Like A Coward On 9/11'

Posted by: Timothy Osman Jan 23 2008, 07:04 AM

http://rawstory.com/news/2007/Firefighter_Giuliani_ran_like_coward_on_0122.html

This Firefighter says our hero was running the wrong way, half an hour before any collapse. I find this to be strange behavior for someone in a position of authority since no steel framed skyscraper had ever previously or subsequently collapsed from fire.

Posted by: georgie101 Jan 23 2008, 07:19 AM

Wouldn't surprise me in the least. Since 9/11, he has painted himself as a hero. Everything he says relates to 9/11 in some way. The truth often ends up being the total opposite of what we have been told.
Does anyone know his exact whereabouts at that time?


ETA/ Even wiki is blank on where he was during the attacks, and yet there is a lot written on everything else about that day...

Posted by: dMole Jan 23 2008, 08:49 AM

Hi Georgie,

According to the mayoral monster himself on the Channel 2 news, he was at "75 Barclay Street... with the Police Commissioner, Fire Commissioner, and the head of Emergency Management" and at a "secure location in mid-town" after being "trapped inside a building for 10-15 minutes."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0hNmf76GUCw&feature=related

Longer version, see around 0:30 to 1:30
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vKHLok-RVNw

EDIT: the "Office of Emergency Management (OEM)" was the entire 23rd floor of WTC7 as I recall...

See also:
http://www.wnbc.com/politics/13404578/detail.html

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/attack/giuliani.html

http://911research.wtc7.net/mirrors/guardian2/wtc/WTC_ch7.htm

EDIT2: This might be important info:
http://www.leadingauthorities.com/16525/Joseph_Lhota.htm

"The New York Times called Joe Lhota "a calm voice for a combative Mayor." From 1998 until December 31, 2001, Lohta served as the chief operating officer of New York City and played a crucial role in the City's impressive and steadfast response to the tragic events of September 11, 2001.

At his desk in City Hall on the morning of the attacks, Lhota heard the explosions and immediately rushed to the World Trade Center to meet Mayor Rudolph Guliani, to assess the damage, and to help direct emergency efforts. As the Mayoral team arrived, a second plane was approaching the south tower. Taking refuge at 75 Barclay Street, an office building just north of the twin towers, they made their way below ground to safety and eventually to a command post to help speed assistance to the victims.

As the man responsible for overseeing all of the operating agencies of New York City, Joe Lhota was an indispensable member of the team that made New York a symbol of hope and American fortitude in the face of the first attack on the United States since Pearl Harbor. Working with the police and fire departments, the business community, medical professionals, federal officials, and ordinary citizens, Lhota and members of the Mayor's team established a model of emergency response.

Lhota also played a key role in responding to the real human needs of the New York tragedy. He provided comfort to the families of the victims and directed efforts to help them.

Prior to his appointment as Deputy Mayor by Mayor Giuliani, Lhota served as the City's Budget Director and, before that, Finance Commissioner. He was responsible for the successful development of the City's successive years of record-setting surpluses."

EDIT3: Ghouliani at the 2004 Republican National Convention:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A47236-2004Aug30.html

" And I will always remember that moment as we escaped the building that we were trapped in at 75 Barclay Street, and I realized that things outside might actually be worse than inside the building.

We did the best we could to communicate a message of calm and hope, as we stood on the pavement watching a cloud come through the cavernous streets of lower Manhattan. "

I can't seem to find any maps or photos of this presumably demolished "75 Barclay Street" address...
nonono.gif

Posted by: georgie101 Jan 23 2008, 09:32 AM

Thanks dMole thumbsup.gif

Posted by: dMole Jan 23 2008, 09:42 AM

An OFFICIAL source that SHOULD BE MIRRORED:

http://www.ops.fhwa.dot.gov/opssecurity/case_studies/nycprelim.htm

"Under the coordination of the New York Police Department (NYPD), the Port Authority, MTA and the NYC DOT quickly implemented procedures to close all the bridge and tunnel crossings into Manhattan. New York and New Jersey police began the process of closing interstates with major access points into New York City. The FAA ordered the Port Authority to close all New York City airports.

TRANSCOM, a coalition of 16 transportation and public safety agencies in the New York metropolitan region, began the process of alerting other agencies of the status of facilities and providing updated transportation information to agencies all along the Northeast Corridor. As facilities were closed, agency personnel began performing vulnerability assessments of their own facilities.

While New York City transportation agencies had individual and regional emergency response plans in place, no one had planned for an attack of the magnitude of September 11. In addition to the loss of key emergency response and transportation personnel who worked in the command center, the transportation and communications networks in Lower Manhattan sustained substantial damage. The World Trade Center served as the major intermodal transportation hub for Lower Manhattan. The Cortlandt subway station and the PATH World Trade Center station were both severely damaged during the collapse of the Twin Towers. Communications hubs for Verizon, TRANSCOM, and the Port Authority as well as the MTA’s fiber-optic network were all located either within or in close proximity to the World Trade Center. All of these were totally or partially destroyed, severing communications during the first few hours after the attack. This hindered the ability to communicate internally and externally during the first few critical hours.

Adding to the confusion in the first hour was the fact that several emergency controls centers, including the City’s, FEMA’s and the Port Authority’s, were located in the World Trade Center complex. At 9:00 a.m., 14 minutes after the first plane crashed into the World Trade Center, city officials activated the city’s OEM Emergency Operations Center at 7 World Trade Center. After hearing a voice on police radio and a second blast three minutes later, New York City OEM abandoned its 7 World Trade Center offices. The OEM found functioning phones at a Merrill Lynch office on 75 Barclay Street, about 1 block from 7 World Trade Center. OEM staff set to work immediately getting the White House on the phone and contacting other key members of the command team.

As the south tower of the World Trade Center collapsed at 10:05 a.m., the OEM fled its temporary Merrill Lynch location as the area became engulfed in dust, dirt and debris. They next set up command at a fire station in West Village, about a mile north of the Merrill Lynch location. After about an hour, lack of desks and insufficient space forced the team to leave the fire station in search of larger quarters.

Around 11:00 a.m., the New York City OEM moved its command center to the 6th Floor Library of the New York City Police Academy on 20th Street, about a mile north of the West Village location. Police Department technicians began running replacement phone lines into a few essential offices inside the NYC OEM makeshift command center at the Police Academy.


The Port Authority initially tried to set up a control center in the Marriott Hotel adjacent to the World Trade Center but they quickly had to abandon that site because of its proximity to the attack. After that they moved to an interim center in Jersey City from which they could communicate with Port Authority facilities and the City’s OEM."

Posted by: tumetuestumefaisdubien Jan 23 2008, 10:01 AM

Quote from recent Bollyn's article (http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=117351)

QUOTE
Jerome Hauer, however, is best known for being the director of the OEM when he made the decision to build a $13 million crisis center on the 23rd floor at 7 World Trade Center. This bizarre crisis center was unveiled in June 1999, and became the subject of tension between the agency and the Police Department, whose own command center at 1 Police Plaza had until then been the focus of emergency preparedness operations.

Jerome M. Hauer, who has strong family connections to the State of Israel, built the bizarre crisis center for the Office of Emergency Management in Larry Silverstein's WTC 7, the 47-story tower which was demolished by explosives in the afternoon of 9-11

As the first director of the new crisis center, "one of Hauer’s first tasks was to find a home for an emergency command center to replace the inadequate facilities at police headquarters," according to the Times.

Reports indicate that the OEM crisis center at the World Trade Center was not being used on 9-11 by the usual personnel. The center had been temporarily relocated to Pier 92 on Manhattan’s West Side, due to a FEMA drill which was supposed to begin on the day after 9-11, according to statements made by Mayor Giuliani.

So who was in the OEM center in Larry Silverstein's building on 9-11? That's the question the needs to be answered.

Posted by: tumetuestumefaisdubien Jan 23 2008, 10:12 AM

QUOTE (dMole @ Jan 23 2008, 07:49 AM)
" And I will always remember that moment as we escaped the building that we were trapped in at 75 Barclay Street, and I realized that things outside might actually be worse than inside the building.

We did the best we could to communicate a message of calm and hope, as we stood on the pavement watching a cloud come through the cavernous streets of lower Manhattan. "

I can't seem to find any maps or photos of this presumably demolished "75 Barclay Street" address...
nonono.gif

75 Barclay st. looks to be the building just next to WTC7 http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&hl=cs&geocode=&time=&date=&ttype=&q=75+Barclay+street&sll=40.782621,-73.947601&sspn=0.212648,0.466919&ie=UTF8&ll=40.713155,-74.010419&spn=0.001663,0.003648&t=h&z=18&om=0&layer=c&cbll=40.713524,-74.009851- -so why they would set the command there when just across the street was that reinforced Hauer's OEM? dunno.gif

Posted by: dMole Jan 23 2008, 11:10 AM

"...I realized that things outside might actually be worse than inside the building."

So was only "the [North Tower] building" hit then, Rudy?

Looking at the following NYC/FDNY website,

http://gis.nyc.gov/doitt/cm/CityMap.htm;jsessionid=4F11CE6FB84DFA6713C9B1B5FA98A332

http://www.nyc.gov/html/fdny/html/home2.shtml
>Residents > City Map

I suspect that Rudy most likely set up at the following "West Village" firehouse/station, but I'm no New Yorker.

Battalion 2 Engine 24 Ladder 5, 227 Sixth Avenue

Some other possibilities:
Battalion 1 Engine 7 Ladder 1, 100 Duane St
Ladder 8, 14 North Moore Street
Squad 18, 132 West 10 Street
Battalion 7 Engine 3 Ladder 12

Posted by: Omega892R09 Jan 23 2008, 01:12 PM

Thanks for that first link dMole (and your continued worthwhile efforts on technical stuff).

I found this nearby:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOeNUax-gaw&feature=related

That's the same Jeff (or Geoff) Hill of the Boeing calls, yes?

Very interesting dMole. That is the second time today I have come across mention of US Army 'psyops', called in by CNN prior eh? Very interesting.

Posted by: Omega892R09 Jan 23 2008, 01:39 PM

QUOTE (dMole @ Jan 23 2008, 07:49 AM)
EDIT: the "Office of Emergency Management (OEM)" was the entire 23rd floor of WTC7 as I recall...

Specially reinforced and with armoured glass windows at great public expense not long before the events in question. So why was he not in there? Should have been proof enough against the light shrapnel that hit WTC7. But then we all know why he could not admit to being in there as events unfolded and why it then had to come down. WTC1 and 2 collapses were controlled from within and then evidence of that control had to be crushed and then shipped out two-six (that being an old RN saying for as quick as possible).

PS Don't mention Motorola Radios. cleanup.gif

Posted by: dMole Jan 23 2008, 02:30 PM

From the Lohta page I linked above:

"Taking refuge at 75 Barclay Street, an office building just north of the twin towers, they made their way below ground to safety and eventually to a command post to help speed assistance to the victims."

Scurrying underground like rats... What does Rudy's 2004 RNC "the building" quote mean exactly?

I was raised by men who once hunted rats at the county dump/landfill weekly. I see tracks of AT LEAST 3 VERY LARGE NYC rats listed above...
yes1.gif

Posted by: KP50 Jan 23 2008, 05:37 PM

This story has always interested me. It is dated 8 October 2001.

http://nymag.com/nymetro/news/sept11/features/5270/

QUOTE
On the morning of September 12, Richard Sheirer, director of the mayor's Office of Emergency Management, was scheduled to conduct a biological-terrorism drill in a cavernous commercial warehouse on the Hudson. Known as tripod -- short for "trial point of distribution" -- the exercise was to test how quickly Sheirer's staff could administer treatments at the kind of ad hoc medical centers that would be set up all over the city in the event of an actual attack. For an audience, Sheirer had lined up Mayor Rudy Giuliani, the police and fire commissioners, and representatives of the FBI and the Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA). He had hired over 1,000 Police Academy cadets and Fire Department trainees to play terrified civilians afflicted with various medical conditions, allergies, and panic attacks. He had even arranged for a shipment of 70,000 M&Ms to be delivered and divided by color into medical packets representing different prophylactics and vaccines. But the M&Ms never arrived.

On the morning of September 11, Sheirer got to City Hall at 8 a.m. for a meeting about the Jackie Robinson-Pee Wee Reese memorial planned for Coney Island. "I was in heaven, sitting between Ralph Branca and Joe Black," he remembers. "We were about to select the statue, and then we heard the pop." At first he thought a transformer had exploded in an underground substation. Then he got a flash report from Watch Command in OEM headquarters.

As his driver barreled down Broadway, Sheirer recalls, "my first move was to clear the streets so we could get emergency vehicles in and people out." He radioed the police department and told them to shut down traffic below Canal Street and close every bridge and tunnel in the city.

Down at the scene, he joined Fire Commissioner Tom Von Essen and his chiefs Pete Ganci and Bill Feehan -- old friends from Sheirer's 26 years with the New York Fire Department. They were establishing a command post at the base of the burning tower. Then the second airplane hit. "At that point there was no more doubt," he says ruefully. "We were under attack." He picked up one of the three cell phones strapped to his belt and started giving orders: to the Coast Guard to seal the harbor, and to the State Emergency Management Office to send backup search and rescue teams and get the Pentagon to freeze the city's airspace. Then he lost his signal.

As Sheirer helped move the Fire Department command post, he saw a cloud of smoke and debris engulf his own command center, on the twenty-third floor of 7 World Trade Center. His staff was inside sending alerts to representatives of nearly 100 organizations -- everyone from Con Edison to the Department of Health. One of his deputies radioed him to report that the OEM would have to evacuate.

Minutes after they arrived at Barclay, the second tower collapsed. "It was a tremendous whoosh, roaring like a train in a tunnel," Sheirer remembers. The doors were jammed with piles of debris, but a janitor led the mayor and his commissioners out through the basement. Their cars were crushed, so they trudged uptown to a firehouse at Houston and Sixth Avenue.......


Sheirer clearly states that the OEM was evacuated because it was on fire. But in all other "official" accounts, it was evacuated because of fears a third aircraft was coming. There seemed a determined effort to evacuate WTC7 as quickly as possible.

We also have the notorious Barry Jennings story (http://www.record-eagle.com/2001/sep/11scene.htm) :-

QUOTE
After the initial blast, Housing Authority worker Barry Jennings, 46, reported to a command center on the 23rd floor of 7 World Trade Center. He was with Michael Hess, the city's corporation counsel, when they felt and heard another explosion. First calling for help, they scrambled downstairs to the lobby, or what was left of it. "I looked around, the lobby was gone. It looked like hell," Jennings said. 


There is much more on Jennings here

http://www.cooperativeresearch.org/entity.jsp?entity=barry_jennings_1

and indications that the OEM was evacuated around the time that Sheirer indicates - soon after the second plane hit.

Posted by: elreb Jan 23 2008, 06:53 PM

Order of the British Empire

Knight Commander KBE

The former mayor of New York, Rudolph Giuliani, has received an honorary knighthood from the Queen for the role he played in the wake of the 11 September attacks.

Mr. Giuliani arrived at the Palace flanked by former New York police commissioner Bernard Kerik and former New York fire commissioner Thomas von Essen, who also received honorary CBEs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1817333.stm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrbjJrLVBRk

I FEEL SICK!

Posted by: dMole Jan 23 2008, 08:31 PM

Hello elreb,

Your post ties into jadenter's Original 13th Amendment post too and looks like an actionable cause to me. Any thoughts here from Culper721?

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=10651&view=findpost&p=10640746

d

Posted by: WetBlanket Jan 24 2008, 04:23 AM

I tend to believe Jennings story more than the others.

Sir Rudy? thumbdown.gif I hope they will let him wear the sash and crown in prison.

Posted by: elreb Jan 24 2008, 07:17 AM

Speaking of Jerome Hauer, director of the OEM…he was also the managing director at Kroll Associates that controlled security at WTC and also worked at the National Institute of Health where the Anthrax issue came from.

The OEM in 7 WTC was built and wired by the same British owned AMEC that rebuilt Wedge 1 of the Pentagon (twice). They also helped in the cleanup/coverup in both areas.

GREAT!

Posted by: Omega892R09 Jan 24 2008, 08:58 AM

QUOTE (elreb @ Jan 24 2008, 06:17 AM)
Speaking of Jerome Hauer, director of the OEM…he was also the managing director at Kroll Associates that controlled security at WTC and also worked at the National Institute of Health where the Anthrax issue came from.

The OEM in 7 WTC was built and wired by the same British owned AMEC that rebuilt Wedge 1 of the Pentagon (twice). They also helped in the cleanup/coverup in both areas.

GREAT!

Aye!

Two more of those too many coincidences of that day.

Posted by: Omega892R09 Jan 24 2008, 09:03 AM

QUOTE (dMole @ Jan 23 2008, 07:31 PM)
Hello elreb,

Your post ties into jadenter's Original 13th Amendment post too and looks like an actionable cause to me.  Any thoughts here from Culper721?

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=10651&view=findpost&p=10640746

d

So, Rudolph Guileannie should not even be running for President, or any other national office.

Why is he keeping his powder dry until the Florida primaries? What is set to happen before we get there I wonder?

Worried! sweat.gif

Posted by: Omega892R09 Jan 24 2008, 09:47 AM

QUOTE (elreb @ Jan 24 2008, 06:17 AM)
Speaking of Jerome Hauer, director of the OEM…he was also the managing director at Kroll Associates that controlled security at WTC and also worked at the National Institute of Health where the Anthrax issue came from.

Marvin Bush has a number of connections to 9/11 including sitting on the boards of security companies; director of the company providing electronic security for WTC (and Washington Dulles airport which also had a key role that day) namely Sucuracom/Stratesec until that day, this latter fact mentioned in Barbara Bush’s own autobiography. There are also links to a reinsurer for the WTC and a flight training company connected to Mohammed Atta.

It so happens that a Bush cousin Walt D Walker III was CEO of Sucuracom/Stratesec from 1999-2002.

Why did a driverless car crush Marvin Bush's live-in babysitter on September 29th and why did The Washington Post sit on the story for a week?

The article which follows originally came from Mike Ruppert’s From The Wilderness Site

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/index.html

but I have not been able to locate it now despite searching on key words like Bertha Champagne and Wayne Madsen. I am aware that there is one contributor here who treats Ruppert with caution.

QUOTE
MARVIN BUSH EMPLOYEE'S MYSTERIOUS DEATH – Connections to 9/11?

Washington Post Sits on Story for a Week

by Wayne Madsen

(Special to From The Wilderness)

© Copyright 2004, From The Wilderness Publications, www.fromthewilderness.com. All Rights Reserved. May be reprinted, distributed or posted on an Internet web site for non-profit purposes only.

October 10 , 2003, 1200 PDT, (FTW) -- WASHINGTON, At around 9 PM on September 29, Fairfax County, Virginia police responded to a 911 call describing an accident. However, they soon discovered they were not dealing with a routine emergency but the mysterious death of an employee of the 47-year old brother of President George W. Bush, venture capitalist Marvin Bush. Sixty-two year old Bertha Champagne, described as a long time "baby sitter" for Marvin and Margaret Bush's two children, son Walker, 13, and daughter Marshall, 17, was found crushed to death by her own vehicle in a driveway in front of the Bush family home in the Alexandria section of Fairfax County. Champagne reportedly lived at the Bush family home.

Champagne had left the residence to retrieve something from her car, which police say had somehow been left in gear. According to the police report, the car rolled forward and pinned the woman between it and a small building next to the driveway (possibly a checkpoint built by the Secret Service when Marvin's father, George H. W. Bush, was president). The car crossed Edgehill Drive, a small street in front of the Bush compound. The vehicle then crossed a busy two-lane street, Fort Hunt Road, finally coming to rest in a wooded area across the street that adjoins the prestigious Belle Haven Country Club. No explanations have been offered as to why the vehicle did not move until Champagne was in a position to be crushed.

Champagne was pronounced dead on arrival at Inova Mount Vernon Hospital. Courtney Young, a spokesperson for the Fairfax County police was surprised when asked about the circumstances surrounding Champagne's death. She indicated the media was primarily focused on another Fairfax County story, the kidnapping and holdup of the wife of New Hampshire Senator Judd Gregg on October 7. More mystifying is the fact that the Washington Post waited almost an entire week to publish the story about the baby sitter's death. The incident occurred on September 29, but the Post did not report it until October 5 and buried it on page 3 of the Metro section. Nevertheless, the Washington Post was the only media outlet to cover the story at all. Young said police still did not know the exact cause of Champagne's death.




(Champagne's car pinned her against the security structure on the right)

Young said the police had posted the incident on its web site in a press release, although the report makes no mention of Marvin Bush. It reads:

A 62-year-old Alexandria area woman died after being pinned between a rolling car and a building.  The crash happened on Monday, around 9 pm, near the intersection of Fort Hunt Road and Edgehill Drive.  Bertha Champagne had gone outside to get something from a car in a driveway.  The car, which was left in gear, began to roll forward.  Champagne was pinned between the car and a small building next to the driveway.  The car continued to roll down the driveway, crossed Fort Hunt Road, and came to rest in a wooded area.  Champagne was taken to Inova Mount Vernon Hospital where she was pronounced dead. 

The press release is dated September 30 at 1330 (1:30 PM), some sixteen and a half hours after the incident occurred. The police were well aware of Marvin Bush's controversial role in serving on corporate boards for companies associated with the 911 terrorist attacks, however, they emphasized that Champagne's death was merely a quirky accident and no foul play was involved.

According to two articles in the Progressive Populist written by Margie Burns, from 1993 to 2000, Bush served on the board of Securacom (since renamed Stratesec). The chairman of the board of Stratesec is Wirt D. Walker III, a cousin of Marvin and George W. Bush. Securacom had contracts to provide security for Dulles International Airport (the airport from which American Airlines Flight 77, which crashed into the Pentagon, originated) and the World Trade Center in New York. Securacom's backers include a number of Kuwaitis through a company called KuwAm Corp (Kuwaiti-American Corp.). Stratesec also has Saudi investors. Walker also serves as a managing director of KuwAm, which maintains offices within the Watergate complex along with Riggs Bank, on whose board Bush's uncle, Jonathan Bush, sits. Saudi Princess Haifa al Faisal, the wife of Saudi Ambassador to the US Prince Bandar, used a Riggs account to funnel money to Omar al Bayoumi and Osama Basnan, two Saudi students in California associated with two of the 911 hijackers.

Until November 2002, Bush served on the board of HCC Insurance Holdings, Inc. (formerly Houston Casualty Company), a re-insurer for the World Trade Center. Bush still serves as an adviser to the firm. Walker serves as chief executive officer of Aviation General, an aircraft company backed by KuwAm. Aviation General, formerly Commander Aircraft, brokered the sale of airplanes to the National Civil Aviation Training Organization (NCATO), located in Giza, Egypt, the hometown of lead hijacker Mohammed Atta. NCATO is the only civilian pilot training school in Egypt. NCATO has a training agreement with Embry-Riddle University in Daytona Beach, Florida, the flight school that was investigated by the FBI for possibly training at least one of the 911 hijackers.

A Houston businessman who worked closely with the Bush family over the years confided that Marvin Bush and Wirt Walker appear to have taken over the Saudi real estate investment and aircraft brokerage business once run out of Texas by Houston-based James Bath in association with Salem bin Laden, the late brother of Osama bin Laden, and Khalid bin Mahfouz. The source, who has dealt personally with the Bush family in Houston for a number of years, said there should be skepticism when looking at bizarre deaths like that of Champagne. The source speculated that Champagne might have happened upon some sensitive information the Bush family wanted kept secret.

Some observers wondered if Secret Service agents might have been able to assist Champagne when her car pinned her. According to the Secret Service in Washington, the agency only provides protection to presidential siblings if an Executive Order authorizes such action. A Secret Service spokesperson emphasized there is no current Secret Service protection for Marvin Bush. However, there remains a question why private security agents posted at the Bush compound could not have responded to Champagne's distress.

There are also questions concerning Champagne's actual place of residence. According to the Post story, Bush told police that Champagne resided at their compound, However, a phone call to the directory-listed residence of Bertha Champagne in Franconia, Virginia resulted in Mrs. Champagne's son answering the phone. He confirmed that his mother lived at the Franconia address but he was clearly uncomfortable and nervous in talking to the media about the circumstances surrounding his mother's death.


The search on Wayne Madsen turned up reports on another possibly 9/11 linked death, of John J. Kokal:

http://www.fromthewilderness.com/free/ww3/112003_kokal.html

Posted by: dMole Jan 24 2008, 01:36 PM

Kokal's and Kelly's deaths look a LOT like Frank Olson's to me. Probably BZ (with a little PCP and methamphetamine to make things "interesting") instead of LSD this time, though (it's much stronger).

http://www.frankolsonproject.org/

http://www.crimemagazine.com/olson.htm

Looks like the PNAC crew has gone back to the old Cold War playbook to me.

Posted by: Omega892R09 Jan 24 2008, 03:43 PM

QUOTE (Omega892R09 @ Jan 24 2008, 08:03 AM)
So, Rudolph Guileannie should not even be running for President, or any other national office.

Why is he keeping his powder dry until the Florida primaries? What is set to happen before we get there I wonder?

Worried! sweat.gif

Well somebody does know something as our Home Secretary demonstrates with her latest talking up of the terror threat:

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,,2246214,00.html

I dont know if I should be angry.gif

or wub.gif wub.gif wub.gif

Posted by: KP50 Jan 24 2008, 06:06 PM

QUOTE (Omega892R09 @ Jan 25 2008, 08:43 AM)
Well somebody does know something as our Home Secretary demonstrates with her latest talking up of the terror threat:

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/story/0,,2246214,00.html

I dont know if I should be angry.gif

or wub.gif wub.gif wub.gif

Having lived through the "IRA years" in the UK, this statement

QUOTE
The home secretary, Jacqui Smith, said today that the terror threat facing the UK was "higher than it has ever been"


is bizarre to say the least. It is strange how through the 70s and 80s, terrorism was underplayed lest terrorists were given the "oxygen of publicity" and these days, what appears to be the least successful terrorist organisation ever devised is built up into an unimaginably horrific ogre.

You'd almost think they were making it up ..... whistle.gif

Posted by: dMole Jan 24 2008, 06:28 PM

QUOTE (KP50 @ Jan 24 2008, 03:06 PM)
...is bizarre to say the least. It is strange how through the 70s and 80s, terrorism was underplayed lest terrorists were given the "oxygen of publicity" and these days, what appears to be the least successful terrorist organisation ever devised is built up into an unimaginably horrific ogre.

You'd almost think they were making it up .....  whistle.gif

Doublespeak- see Orwell, George

see also Rove, Karl

Cheney, Dick

Perle, Richard

Bush, George Hiram Walker

Media, mainstream...
----
Sincerely,

d. Winston Smith

Posted by: amazed! Jan 24 2008, 11:05 PM

I think the Brits are into fear-mongering, as a government function, than are the americans. Though it is quite close, and a tie for all practical purposes. :ph43r:

Posted by: dMole Jan 26 2008, 09:38 AM

[This just in]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/26/us/politics/26emergency.html?_r=1&ei=5088&en=5801dbc0d01a0a9e&ex=1359003600&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&pagewanted=print&oref=slogin

January 26, 2008
Memo Details Objections to Command Center Site
By WILLIAM K. RASHBAUM

The New York Police Department produced a detailed analysis in 1998 opposing plans by the city to locate its emergency command center at the World Trade Center, but the Giuliani administration overrode those objections. The command center later collapsed from damage in the Sept. 11 terrorist attack.

“Seven World Trade Center is a poor choice for the site of a crucial command center for the top leadership of the City of New York,” a panel of police experts, which was aided by the Secret Service, concluded in a confidential Police Department memorandum.

The memorandum, which has not been previously disclosed, cited a number of “significant points of vulnerability.” Those included: the building’s public access, the center’s location on the 23rd floor, a 1,200-gallon diesel fuel supply for its generator, a large garage and delivery bays, the building’s history as a terrorist target, and its placement above and adjacent to a Consolidated Edison substation that provided much of the power for Lower Manhattan.

Rudolph W. Giuliani, the mayor then, has acknowledged some police skepticism about the site, but he has described it as resulting from a jurisdictional dispute between police officials and his emergency management director, who had played a role in selecting the site.

The eight-page memo reveals that police officials asked a variety of in-house experts in various disciplines and an outside expert to prepare a detailed analysis of the site’s vulnerabilities.

The decision to put the command center in the trade center has been a continuing source of discomfort for Mr. Giuliani, whose expertise and preparedness as a leader in a time of crisis has been the chief element in his campaign for the Republican presidential nomination.

The site was completed in the summer of 1999 and was destroyed when the 47-story building at 7 World Trade Center collapsed on Sept. 11 after a fire there burned for much of the day.

“This group’s finding is that the security of the proposed O.E.M. Command Center cannot be reasonably guaranteed,” the commander of the intelligence division, Daniel J. Oates, wrote in the July 15, 1998, memo to the police commissioner.

The memo said the conclusions were based on analysis by police officials with expertise in infrastructure, building security, explosives, traffic and ventilation systems, who also consulted the Secret Service, including the agency’s New York special agent in charge, Chip Smith.

“Mr. Smith agrees with this assessment,” the memo says in its concluding paragraph, “even though his own office is in Seven World Trade Center. He acknowledges that the security of his office is a continuing concern because of the public nature of the building and the other reasons specified in this report.”

The memorandum was provided to The New York Times by a law enforcement official not affiliated with a rival political campaign.

Mr. Giuliani received a briefing on the Police Department’s recommendations, but it is unclear whether he received a copy of the memorandum.

Mr. Giuliani has said in the past that one of the reasons for choosing the location was that several federal agencies with which city officials needed to be in contact during emergencies, including the Secret Service, had their offices there. Other federal agencies in the building included the Defense Department and the C.I.A.

But the Police Department took the opposite position in the memo, saying the presence of those agencies made the building a more likely target.

Mr. Giuliani’s campaign declined on Friday to answer questions about the memo. But Maria Comella, a campaign spokeswoman, said the Giuliani administration had considered 50 different sites and examined a variety of factors before selecting the trade center.

“This is one memo out of a variety of memos that were presented,” she said.

Two years ago, in their book, “Grand Illusion,” Wayne Barrett and Dan Collins described the vehement objections to the choice raised by Police Commissioner Howard Safir and Chief of Department Louis R. Anemone. The memo from the Intelligence Division lays out what appears to have been the foundation for their arguments against the location.

Mr. Safir, who now operates a private security company and has supported Mr. Giuliani’s candidacy, did not a return a call seeking comment.

In response to questions about the site selection, Mr. Giuliani has typically said he relied on his emergency management director, Jerome M. Hauer, to find the best site and suggested he had little role in the process.

Mr. Hauer, however, has publicly disputed Mr. Giuliani’s assertion, saying that although he helped pick the site, he did so only after mayoral aides had told him the command center had to be within walking distance of City Hall. He has said he originally recommended a site in Brooklyn.

Mr. Hauer left the Giuliani administration in 2000 and worked as a consultant and served in the Department of Health and Human Services in the Bush administration. He later became a vocal critic of the former mayor. Mr. Hauer, however, has also praised Mr. Giuliani’s overall effort at emergency preparedness, a record that the Giuliani campaign went to some lengths to underscore on Friday.

Before Mr. Hauer left the Giuliani administration, great enmity existed between him and Mr. Safir. Mr. Safir’s critics have contended that he sought to limit the power and scope of the Office of Emergency Management once he became police commissioner in 1996. Mr. Giuliani created the office in 1996, and Mr. Hauer was its first director.

The memorandum sets out in detail the reasons why the Police Department concluded that the site was a poor choice for a command center, including its vulnerability to a biological attack and the ease with which a bomber could have damaged the building and crippled the center.

It has nine sections, the longest one headed “Explosives.” It describes a blast analysis conducted by the Police Department’s bomb squad, aided by the Secret Service, which looked at the likely impact of bombs of varying sizes, from one that could be carried in a car or a van to a large truck bomb.

The analysis, a standard practice used routinely to determine street closings when the president or another dignitary is in New York City, uses a computer system derived from the military and based on projections by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

It concluded that the largest of such bombs would have led to the collapse of the building.

Posted by: amazed! Jan 26 2008, 05:00 PM

Yeah, well Rudy was a FEDERAL prosecutor, so it's no wonder there is a FEDERAL connection.

Man, this thing was set up years ago. pilotfly.gif

Posted by: dMole May 27 2008, 02:42 PM

Thanks to Ricochet, I recently found the following:

http://www.columbia.edu/~sc32/CATASTROPHE%20AND%20THE%20PUBLIC%20SERVICE.pdf

-----p. 3-4
Like many Americans, NYC Mayor Rudolph Giuliani’s breakfast was interrupted by a telephone call alerting him of a horrible accident at the Trade Center’s North Tower (Seifman 2001). Giuliani quickly finished the meal he shared with top aide Denny Young, and the two drove downtown from the 50th Street restaurant toward City Hall. Within minutes, the mayor’s phone rang again, this time alerting him of a plane hitting the South Tower of the World Trade Center. Giuliani changed his route and headed directly to the scene.
As Giuliani raced to the World Trade Center from the north, Richard Sheirer, Director of NYC’s Office of Emergency Management (OEM) rushed to the World Trade Center from the south. Established in 1996 by Mayor Giuliani in partial response to the 1993 World Trade Center attack, the OEM acts as a liaison between all city agencies involved in emergency situations (Sandberg 2001). Prior to September 11, Sheirer’s responsibilities included controlling the city’s rat population and communicating information to residents about impending snowstorms.

On this day, Sheirer’s priority was securing lower Manhattan. To this end, he ordered the police department to close all roads below Canal Street, as well as all tunnels and bridges. He also activated the city’s Emergency Operations Center (EOC), a $13 million, 50,000 square foot “Watch Command” located on the 23rd floor of 7 World Trade Center (Bowles 2001 ). Housing numerous telecommunications and security systems, the Emergency Operations Center was expected to serve as the core logistics center for as many as 68 city agencies immediately following the attacks (ArcNews Online 2002). From here, Sheirer, Mayor Giuliani and personnel from organizations including the New York Police Department (NYPD) and Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) could collect and redistribute orders and updates to law enforcement and residents alike.

When the second plane hit, debris flew into 7 World Trade Center, forcing Sheirer to evacuate the Emergency Operations Center and set up a command center in the lobby of the North Tower (Campo-Flores 2001). Sheirer then ordered the Coast Guard to seal New York harbor, and asked the Pentagon to close the city’s airspace (Griscom 2001). Concerned about additional attacks, Sheirer spoke with NYPD brass, which agreed that NYPD helicopter pilots should be prepared to crash their choppers into any other planes attempting to attack the city (Forty Eight Hours 2002).

Shutting down lower Manhattan facilitated quicker movement of emergency workers and supplies to the “hot zone” (Archibold 2001). Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik, (NYC.Gov 2002), spearheaded this latter effort. Kerik met Giuliani and several top fire department officials near the base of the Twin Towers just as the second plane hit at 9:03 a.m. (Marzulli 2001). Unable to contact the Emergency Operations Center, the staff moved to a makeshift command post at 75 Barclay Street to avoid the falling debris. Here, Giuliani, Kerik and top aides received briefings about the unfolding situation and from that location managed initial safety actions and communications. During this time, Giuliani conferred with Sheirer, who directed the closure of all non-emergency activity and entrants below 14th Street.

Just as Sheirer attempted communication with federal officials in the Capitol, Kerik tried coordinating efforts with NYPD officers throughout the five boroughs. Yet, like most offices located in lower Manhattan, access to telephone, cellular, pager and email communication was sporadic.

-----p. 5-6
Supporting the FDNY effort was the department’s commissioner, Thomas Von Essen. A firefighter for 26 years before becoming commissioner in 1996, Von Essen’s presence in the World Trade Center was to “support, help get resources and criticize…[to] break in their chops a little,” and give recommendations for evacuation to Mayor Giuliani “(Issaka et al. 2001, 8). As numerous fire chiefs and tour commanders were also present, Von Essen resisted making operating decisions and instead headed for the Emergency Operations Center at 7 World Trade Center.
...
Just minutes after Giuliani and Kerik settled in to their newest makeshift command post at a nearby firehouse, the South Tower collapsed at 9:59 a.m. and blockaded the group in the building. Von Essen, after finding the Emergency Operations Center evacuated, watched the tower fall while walking toward the mayor’s temporary headquarters. “Immediately… the magnitude of the loss was evident to him without having to hear any numbers”(Issaka et al. 2001, 8). After two more attempts to set up command posts, the mayor, police, Office of Emergency Management director and newly arrived FDNY commissioner settled in at the library of the police academy. For the next forty-eight hours, their teams worked feverishly to secure the city and its people from this unpublicized location.

Posted by: dMole Oct 10 2008, 11:55 PM

R. Giuliani related threads at:

After 9/11, Rudy Wasn't A Rescue Worker --,, He Was A Yankee................
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?showtopic=8451

Giuliani Discouraged Use Of Respirators By Wtc Workers
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?showtopic=7472

Posted by: dMole Jan 19 2009, 08:11 PM

Thanks to this post here:

http://www.physforum.com/index.php?showtopic=3108&st=0#

I found a source for the fire/emergency radio tapes here:

http://www.nbvfd3.org/nbvfd3_wtcaudio.html

Posted by: believeyourowneyes.com Apr 23 2009, 07:16 PM

QUOTE (elreb @ Jan 21 2008, 08:53 PM) *
Order of the British Empire

Knight Commander KBE

The former mayor of New York, Rudolph Giuliani, has received an honorary knighthood from the Queen for the role he played in the wake of the 11 September attacks.

Mr. Giuliani arrived at the Palace flanked by former New York police commissioner Bernard Kerik and former New York fire commissioner Thomas von Essen, who also received honorary CBEs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1817333.stm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrbjJrLVBRk

I FEEL SICK!


I just up-chucked a little in the back of my mouth....

Posted by: lunk Apr 24 2009, 11:42 AM

QUOTE
The former mayor of New York, Rudolph Giuliani, has received an honorary knighthood from the Queen for the role he played in the wake of the 11 September attacks.


Does an "honorary knighthood" change his title to "sir" (from "former")?

Does this change his "peer" group?

If he ever has to go to court, who would his own peers be, on the jury?
Royalty,
...or "twelve honest men"?

Just wondering...

Posted by: panthercat May 3 2009, 09:17 PM

75 Barclay St. is not a deliverable address. I entered it in the USPS zipcode search page. Who knows if it exists or not.

For any first responders who were on the scene, did you see anything that resembled large pieces of airplane on the ground? Engine, tail section, wing, anything that didn't look like part of a building. Even if the aluminum airframe melted, there would still be large shiny blobs of it. Those who say the airplanes disintegrated in the fire seem to have a tenuous grasp on reality.

Jet fuel doesn't get hot enough to melt steel, especially in an open area, and fire will not pulverize 90,000 tons of concrete. Physics was given a vacation that day.

Giuliani is a politician. The definition of politics is: poly = many; tics = blood sucking creatures.

Posted by: Anduril May 4 2009, 04:08 AM

QUOTE (tumetuestumefaisdubien @ Jan 23 2008, 03:01 PM) *
Quote from recent Bollyn's article (http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=117351)


I've actually SPOKEN with Jerome hauer about this matter, asking him to lend his expertise to resolving unanswered problems. I followed this up with an email to him.

He told me directly that he had "no knowledge of explosives."

Odd, that, because I seem to recall associates of his at university saying that he had enough expertise to "make a building walk sideways..."

He never responded (directly, anyway).

It is INCONCEIVABLE that mossad would allow participation in 9/11

It is INCONCEIVABLE that the IDF would allow any such thing.

They gained NOTHING from 9/11, and to have been PARTICIPANTS (except for intelligence-gathering reasons) would 'risk' United States' support for Israel for decades, if not forever.

Mossad & IDF are the sharpest knives in the box...

This "Israel did it" or "the jews did it" stuff is exactly what you'd expect as every anti-Semite there is comes out of the woodwork. It's simply absurd: no 'gain' but 'huge loss' Of course, a person of Jewish origin has free will, like everyone else. Anyone CAN do anything...

Wake up out there! I discussed all this with the Israeli Embassy in London within the past week...

Anduril

Posted by: tinynate May 4 2009, 04:25 AM

hey you guys are making it much too complicated ...

he ran like a stuck pig and when asked by that young black girl about it later on, he tried to exit stage right again .... his actions speak the truth, not conjecture where he says he mightve been on barclay etc ...


who cares? he exposed himself as a liar and coward, thats the bottom line.

he is despised by all the firefighters in NYC

nuff said!

Posted by: tinynate May 4 2009, 04:37 AM

QUOTE (Anduril @ May 4 2009, 04:08 AM) *
I've actually SPOKEN with Jerome hauer about this matter, asking him to lend his expertise to resolving unanswered problems. I followed this up with an email to him.

He told me directly that he had "no knowledge of explosives."

Odd, that, because I seem to recall associates of his at university saying that he had enough expertise to "make a building walk sideways..."

He never responded (directly, anyway).

It is INCONCEIVABLE that mossad would allow participation in 9/11

It is INCONCEIVABLE that the IDF would allow any such thing.

They gained NOTHING from 9/11, and to have been PARTICIPANTS (except for intelligence-gathering reasons) would 'risk' United States' support for Israel for decades, if not forever.

Mossad & IDF are the sharpest knives in the box...

This "Israel did it" or "the jews did it" stuff is exactly what you'd expect as every anti-Semite there is comes out of the woodwork. It's simply absurd: no 'gain' but 'huge loss' Of course, a person of Jewish origin has free will, like everyone else. Anyone CAN do anything...

Wake up out there! I discussed all this with the Israeli Embassy in London within the past week...

Anduril



ARE YOU FRIGGIN KIDDING US???

Take your psyops 101 to the Irgon and try perfecting that cinema gig with Philip Nathanson.


http://it.truveo.com/War-by-Way-of-Deception-Antineocons/id/2212641003

Posted by: DoYouEverWonder May 4 2009, 03:03 PM

QUOTE (panthercat @ May 3 2009, 09:17 PM) *
75 Barclay St. is not a deliverable address. I entered it in the USPS zipcode search page. Who knows if it exists or not.

For any first responders who were on the scene, did you see anything that resembled large pieces of airplane on the ground? Engine, tail section, wing, anything that didn't look like part of a building. Even if the aluminum airframe melted, there would still be large shiny blobs of it. Those who say the airplanes disintegrated in the fire seem to have a tenuous grasp on reality.

Jet fuel doesn't get hot enough to melt steel, especially in an open area, and fire will not pulverize 90,000 tons of concrete. Physics was given a vacation that day.

Giuliani is a politician. The definition of politics is: poly = many; tics = blood sucking creatures.



Looking at the building closest to that location on Google Earth, it's seems to be under construction? Maybe that's why the address doesn't work anymore?

Edit: Digging around some more and something doesn't make sense. Either the building doesn't exist or it's one block west of where I thought it was? I thought it was east of West Broadway, but if it exists it must be on the block west of West Broadway. Anyone else have a clue?

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