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The C 130 Caper, Andrews Air Force base

onesliceshort
post May 14 2014, 04:55 PM
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I'll just dive straight in..

Miles Kara was assigned to basically "find out" what was happening in the skies above Washington DC and the Pentagon before and after the alleged impact, and report what he found to the 9/11 Commission.

Allegedly in October 2003, a memorandum was filed complaining about audio, video and other records being withheld.

http://www.scribd.com/mobile/doc/12962752

Remember that during this period, NORAD had been exposed as having lied about and withheld audio evidence:

http://www.911truth.org/911-live-or-fabric...mission-report/

In February 2004, Miles Kara released what he termed "relevant" ATC transmissions from Andrews complete with timelines. How he arrived at these timelines is not stipulated. Seen here:

Relevant Andrews Transmissions
Work Complete Feb 17-18, 2004
Miles Kara

http://www.911myths.com/images/7/79/Team8_...ansmissions.pdf

The transcript and timeline for the C130 stopped before its takeoff.


In May 2004, in the interview with C130 pilot Stephen O'Brien, he "revealed" more ATC audio and had the alleged RADES data available to him

http://www.oredigger61.org/?p=6314

When the alleged NTSB FDR data and RADES data were released it became obvious that the C130 pilot's description of events clearly didn't match the data. Nor did witnesses to the arrival of the C130 within the Pentagon basin.

More details here:

http://www.thepentacon.com/Topic5.htm



And here:

http://z3.invisionfree.com/CIT/index.php?showtopic=116




There then followed the alleged release of yet more ATC audio by Pentagon disinformationist John Farmer and "Boonedoggled" due to the efforts of CIT (esp. Aldo Marquis) and Rob Balsamo (who entered an e mail exchange with the C130 pilot). "Boonedoggled" posted a video compilation of ATC recordings allegedly uncompressed. That is, supposedly in real time (Source, AFAIK, unconfirmed):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fSoeBSha4Pk

I've used all of this alleged data and audio to see if they matched, working backwards from a set timeframe within the official narrative. Where O'Brien claims to have seen the aircraft at his "10 o'clock to 12 o'clock" position; the ATC audio; the alleged FDR data, and the alleged RADES data.


What follows is a comparison between the "real time" video of ATC audio and Miles Kara's timeline.
The seconds and minutes are of the "real time" video. The derived time according to the official narrative are indicated after each audio segment:

10s: Probably be a few minutes for wake turbulence 747 depart (09:28:03)

1:30 : Tyson, Andrews, looking for another release (09:29:23)

1:38: Who ya got? (09:29:31)

1:40 I got Gopher06 Hagerstown (09:29:33)

1:43 Gofer06 release [a few minutes?] (09:29:36)


Miles Kara 2004:

09:28:35 Tape (7982 BIB, Arrival Radar) Gopher 06, released

According to the Kara timeline, Gofer 06 was released 1 minute earlier.



Back to the video..,

2:00 Gofer06 Runway 1 Left taxi into position and hold....? Traffic crossing....(09:29:53)

Miles Kara 2004:

09:30:40 (Tape 7982 CIA, Ground Control) Ground Control gives Gofer 06 permission to taxi to runway 1L

According to the Kara timeline, Gofer 06 was given permission to taxi to runway 1L 47 seconds later than in the video



Back to the video...

2:45 Gofer06 gonna hold you in position for just one moment for a helicopter crossing (09:30:38)

Miles Kara 2004: This message is not even mentioned in the Kara timeline even though this "helicopter crossing" was mentioned in his O'Brien interview.

In fact, around the alleged time of the "helicopter crossing", Kara actually claimed that Gofer 06 was cleared for takeoff 12 seconds later than the "real time" video

09:30:50 Tape (7981 A1B, Local Control) Gofer 06 cleared for takeoff, not reported to Base Ops



Back to the video...

3:29 GOFER 06, helicopter traffic crossing the centerline. Will continue westbound, he'll be south of your turn, wind 3-5-0 at 8. Runway one left, clear for takeoff. (09:31:22)


Miles Kara, 2004: Again, this "helicopter crossing" is not mentioned in his report. Instead, around this time, there is a reference to an incident that isn't mentioned in the "real time" video:

09:31:40 (Tape 7982 CIA, Ground Control) Gofer 06 requests temporary hold to enhance INS system


Note: The C130 Hercules uses a laser gyro inertial navigational system (INS).

Question:

Where is the audio of this request?

What was meant by "enhance" the INS?

Note: This could take a couple or several minutes depending on what "enhancement" was carried out on such a sensitive instrument.

For an alignment, the engines must be switched off. No vibration whatsoever. If not, the readings are next to useless.

Here's a tutorial on how to set an INS (albeit computer simulation, same rules apply to real aircraft):

http://www.element14.com/community/thread/...em-ins-tutorial

And a C130 H pilot forum discussed the same issue on setting the INS

http://www.c-130hercules.net/archive/index.php/t-1296.html

Screencap:

http://s9.postimg.org/6jdxylcu7/image.jpg
[/i]


Back to the video...

3:38 Clear for takeoff zero six (09:31:31)


Miles Kara, 2004:

09:30:50: (Tape 7981 A1B, Local Control) Gofer 06 cleared for takeoff, not reported to Base Ops

According to Kara's timeline, Gofer 06 was cleared for takeoff 41 seconds later than the "real time" video.



Summary so far:

Both timelines jump back and forth by up to 60-90 seconds.

Kara's timeline is void of the "helicopter crossing" message from Andrews around the same time as the alleged INS "enhancement" message from Gofer 06 which is not to be heard anywhere in the video.

Kara was apparently aware of the "helicopter crossing" message in his subsequent interview with O'Brien. This helicopter wasn't "relevant"? Or was he waiting to see if this was "classified"?

Even if the "INS enhancement" message audio were to suddenly appear through some unofficial back door internet source, we now know that all alleged audio and various timelines are suspected of having been edited, censored and/or manipulated at one or more stages along the line. Probably for different reasons.

NORAD was exposed as having "tweaked" the timeline to cover up the military response.

And Kara (as will be shown in another thread) purposefully blindsided and lead O'Brien during at least two interviews for the purpose of making contradictory testimony of the C130 pilot "fit".




THE TAKEOFF

QUOTE
There are two runways on the base; the western runway is 11,300 feet (3,400 m) in length, and the eastern runway is 11,700 feet (3,600 m) in length.
Source: Wikipedia


Another alleged set of radar data (source unknown AFAIK) supposedly shows the C130 in the final minute before takeoff but before that, a recap.

There is almost exactly a minute difference between Kara's and the alleged "real time" audio on the time of release of Gofer 06

09:28:35 (Kara)
09:29:36 ("real time")

There are 47 seconds difference between Kara's and the alleged "real time" audio on the time Gofer 06 was told to taxi to Runway 1L

09:30:40 (Kara)
09:29:53 ("real time")

In other words, Kara noted a 2 minute 5 second delay (maybe 30 seconds less if I've read this wrong) between the release of Gofer 06 and the time it was told to taxi to Runway 1L while the "real time" audio noted just 17 seconds.


Between 09:30:38 and 09:31:22 (44 seconds) on the "real time" audio, Gofer 06 was allegedly told to delay because of a "helicopter crossing". An event that isn't mentioned in the Kara timeline but is mentioned during his interview with O'Brien. Both during and just after this "real time" audio of the helicopter, Kara's timeline includes the "cleared for takeoff" and Gofer 06 requesting a delay to "enhance" his INS!

During Kara's second interview with O'Brien, he claimed to have been facing "south" towards "where they keep the 747s" when "Word31" allegedly started up and took off at 09:27.

Kara claimed that there were no less than three "delays" in the C130's takeoff between 09:27 and the alleged wheels up at about 09:33. Six minutes from O'Brien allegedly saw the 747 take off from an area facing south. And just five minutes until he was at the far south end of Runway 1L allegedly at 09:32:04.

1) wake turbulence from a 747 (Word31) - 4-5 nautical miles of separation required

2) "perhaps" a grass cutter (which was never acknowledged by O'Brien, outlined in detail nor a timeframe specified) and of which Kara says that he's "not sure on"

3) a helicopter "coming across"


If we take the "real time" audio as being valid, Gofer 06 was informed for a second time of the "helicopter crossing" at 09:31:22.

We then have to take in to account a fourth delay in the form of O'Brien allegedly requesting time to "enhance" his INS. Even if we throw all logic and procedure out the window and pretend that an INS can be "enhanced" while the engines are running and the aircraft is no longer in its original position, it's still another as yet undefined time period of delay.

And don't forget the grass cutter! Which brings us back to the alleged position of the. C130 at 09:32:04...



What the hell?

Oh yeah, throw this into the mix of timeframes..

QUOTE
In this study the time of day used as the standard time is from the USAF 84th RADES data, which covers all of the flights from takeoff to respective impacts. Initial comparisons of the radar data from the USAF and the FAA showed that an offset in time was present. The 84th RADES found that the clock for the North East Air Defense Sector (NEADS) lagged the clock for the other sectors by 25.3 seconds. The other sectors were all in agreement with the Global Positioning Satellite (GPS) time. Therefore, 25.3 seconds must be added to the radar data from the 84th RADES.



I'm sure there are back up excuses, more "audio", unsourced snippets of information (like hand written "flightstrips") or whatever out there to "fill the blanks in" here in yet another unofficial capacity, but that's all I see when discussing the Pentagon. What should be straightforward case of crossreferencing available "data" and ATC audio (which apparently doesn't record the time of transmission), into a very specific and lucid sequence of events should be apparent.

But it isn't the case, is it?
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rob balsamo
post May 14 2014, 07:50 PM
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QUOTE (onesliceshort @ May 14 2014, 04:55 PM) *
What was meant by "enhance" the INS?


It is basically an update prior to departure to make sure the INS is aligned. The initial alignment is done prior to taxi.. and then an update is done prior to take-off... so you have the most accurate position data possible.

This is why the data for "AAL77" raised a huge red flag when we saw such a large off-set prior to taxi and departure....



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onesliceshort
post May 14 2014, 09:32 PM
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QUOTE (rob balsamo @ May 15 2014, 12:50 AM) *
It is basically an update prior to departure to make sure the INS is aligned. The initial alignment is done prior to taxi.. and then an update is done prior to take-off... so you have the most accurate position data possible.

This is why the data for "AAL77" raised a huge red flag when we saw such a large off-set prior to taxi and departure....

<iframe width="560" height="315" src="//www.youtube.com/embed/nu2CRKFpo4M" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


Aah, thanks. Rob thumbsup.gif

How long would an update take? Do the engines have to be off or can the numbers/coordinates simply be punched in?
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rob balsamo
post May 14 2014, 09:47 PM
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QUOTE (onesliceshort @ May 14 2014, 09:32 PM) *
Aah, thanks. Rob thumbsup.gif

How long would an update take? Do the engines have to be off or can the numbers/coordinates simply be punched in?



Not really sure how long it takes in the C-130... but usually it's pretty quick. Many procedures call for "TOGA" (usually a button on the side of the thrust levers triggered by your thumb) prior to take-off in order to set the Flight Director for climb. When TOGA is pushed, the INS/IRS is automatically updated on most aircraft and you can see it on the MFD map. Then you roll.....

The C-130 O'Brien was flying was perhaps a bit antiquated.. so it probably takes a few minutes for the update to take....? Again... not really sure... better to ask a C-130 Driver. Perhaps they have to manually punch in the lat/long at the runway threshold again? Dunno.... dunno.gif

The engines wouldn't have to be off for an update... only during initial alignment does the aircraft have to be completely stationary..... and this is done prior to taxi... it's all covered in the video above.
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onesliceshort
post May 15 2014, 06:25 AM
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I had been looking through C 130 forums to find the procedure for the INS and came up with this (just as you say Rob)



Just seemed strange to me that a procedure which should only take seconds lead to an alleged request for a delay, ya know? Either way, the main point is how the audio can be manipulated, compressed and/or edited to suit desired timeframes.

On a separate note..

When O'Brien told Kara that he was "facing south" towards "where the 747s are kept", I take it that he meant facing towards the area where the new Air Force One hangar is now situated?



I know that the layout may have been different in 2001, but where would O'Brien have taxiied from given that south facing statement (and the fact that he allegedly ended up at the far south of the same runway as "Word31")?
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rob balsamo
post May 15 2014, 02:57 PM
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QUOTE (onesliceshort @ May 15 2014, 06:25 AM) *
I know that the layout may have been different in 2001, but where would O'Brien have taxiied from given that south facing statement (and the fact that he allegedly ended up at the far south of the same runway as "Word31")?


I checked the archived images on GE.. and to my surprise... there is an image taken on 9/11/2001 of Andrews. You can see a C-130 at the top facing south.. and what appears to be an E-4B on the bottom of the image facing north (albeit on a slight angle).



Looking around closely at shadows on the ground, the image appears to have been taken mid-day... The C-130 is probably a different C-130.... but did either of the E4-B's return to ADW? I recall one of them went to Offutt AFB in NE? I think it was VENUS 77 (the infamous 'mystery plane').... Did WORD 31 return to ADW?

I don't really feel like breaking out the RS3 software if someone remembers....
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onesliceshort
post May 15 2014, 07:15 PM
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Da fuck?

There were 2 Word31s (according to dM):



Good to know where O'Brien claims to have been given the E4B's position. He had 5 minutes to wheel his way down to the far south end of the runway (at least a kilometre) and 4 alleged "delays" to overcome.. whistle.gif

I'm not accusing O'Brien of anything but I think he was played like a tin whistle. And he knows it IMHO.
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