Oct Loyalist/"debunker" Guest/visitor List, Sign in here please Options

[dMz]

Since there is already a Welcome and Newcomer forum for people who are legitimately looking for answers, it only seems fair to provide the same for our "debunking" and sometimes pointlessly argumentative friends. Please consider this an electronic "guest book" of sorts.

First of all, please read ALL OF the following IN ENTIRETY before making any posts in this Debate forum:

Forum Rules
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?act=boardrules

"Debunkers" Take Note
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?showtopic=7462

To All Trolls & Shills: Please Read !, helpful advice for your first post
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?showtopic=4993

When you get done with the above, why don't you take a little while to tell us about yourself? Some helpful information should/shall include:

1. What other userID's do you frequently use online? At what websites or forums?
2. What percentage(s) would you estimate that you support and/or believe the "Official" "boxcutter Arab" Conspiracy Theory (OT, OCT, or OGCT) as told in the mainstream media (MSM), Kean-Hamilton 9/11 Commission, FEMA, and NIST reports on a scale of 0-100?
3. Did you bring any of your associates with you? If so, how many are in your party? Please have them each sign this guest book too.
4. Why did you choose your particular userID? Does it have any significance or obscure reference that you would like to share with us?
5. Do you have any online websites or resources that you would like to recommend to us? Would these be "Gravysites" by any chance?
6. MOST IMPORTANTLY: What exactly do you hope to accomplish at or bring to this Forum?
7. Have we seen you under another userID here before? If so, which one(s)? ["Pinch," nicepants, Roark, Wibble, "foxy," etc.]
8. Do you have any favorite rhetorical techniques? Which ones (animated GIF, appeal to ridicule, red herring, strawman, Ad Hominem, moving the goalpost, etc.)?
9. Do you prefer to get "scientific data and facts" from a tour guide and from anonymous online followers of a stage magician?
10. Are you under the employment and/or contracted under agencies of the United States Government?

Thank you for taking the time to respond and please do enjoy your stay.

[If you elect to not respond, you might get linked here anyway. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ]
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Note 1: Just to clarify the term loyalist:

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/loyalist

"one who is or remains loyal especially to a political cause, party, government, or sovereign"

And a quick quiz- If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it most likely is a __________?

Note 2: You've got to work at it to get "invited" to this thread. If you have been referred here, it was in all likelihood by "invitation only" from a forum staff member. Please take a moment to seriously re-consider the thread where your "invitation" was posted, and what exactly your motivations are here at this forum...

Note 3: FYI, "answering" our forum members' legitimate and sincere questions with yet more open-ended and un-answerable questions and/or rhetorical sophistry is NOT going to fly for very long here. PLEASE PROVIDE verifiable sources in your answers to the questions posed in this Debate forum. Also PLEASE keep quoted posts IN FULL CONTEXT in the Debate section (as in don't "quote mine," cross-quote different authors, and/or "cherry pick"- you will be called on that).

*** Some apparently consider posting on this Debate forum to be a "right." It is NOT- it is a privelege that can and will be revoked for violation of any of the forum rules listed and/or linked to above IN THEIR ENTIRETY ***

Reason for edit: Draft 2.0

[rob balsamo]

pinned

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

[painter]

Thank you for taking the time to respond and please do enjoy your stay.

[If you elect to not respond, you might get linked here anyway. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ]

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/lolabove.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/banger.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/handsdown.gif) :(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/worthy.gif)

[dMz]

Well, our first name/alias/sock in the book is the recent departure "nicepants."

For the curious, for the bored, and for the troll-ologists, one can find out more about nicepants' [mis?-]adventures here at:

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....showtopic=11938

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....showtopic=11941

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....showtopic=12546

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10742262

[Wibble]

I was told to come here so I am Wibble, I only post as Wibble.

[painter]

I was told to come here so I am Wibble, I only post as Wibble.

You have not answered all the questions in the first post of this thread, Wibble. I will suspend your posting privileges if you do not do so.

[grizz]

I did ask you to answer each question, which you did not. I would especially like for you to contemplate this one, and hopefully answer it.

"6. MOST IMPORTANTLY: What exactly do you hope to accomplish at or bring to this Forum?"

Thanks.

[Wibble]

I was told that this forum was the home of expert views and analysis. So I came here to read them and see if there is/was a conspiracy. I was hoping this forum would not be plagued by some of the childish moderation I have seen other forums. You know, the stuff where it is OK for truthers to personally attack "OCTers" but "OCTer" cant even respond to repeated attacks without getting banned and that sort of school playground stuff. So here I am...........
I am alone and for number 2 is 100 agree or disagree?


The fact you are threatening to suspend me just for not answering a few questions really does this forum no credit. You are treating people who believe the Official Story as second rate humans. Do Truthers have a similar set of questions to answer? This all suggests you have something to hide and threats to suspend me is nothing short of censorship. The exact same thing you often accuse the US Government of. How Ironic.

[grizz]

It is ironic, isn't it?

I don't think you understand. This is a serious reserch forum, not a debate club. Yes, we do reject the OCT because it is so full of holes there is almost no substance, more like a screen than swiss cheese. You can see right through it if you just look. This is based on years of research for most of us, and solid evidence.

Parroting NIST and other OCT sources has been done over and over and over and is, quite fankly, a waste of our time and a diversion. Once again, if you have anything of substance, anything we don't already know, please offer it.

[Wibble]

Parroting NIST and other OCT sources has been done over and over and over and is, quite fankly, a waste of our time and a diversion.

So what would you consider a good use of your time? Can you not see that debunking truthers sources and again again is a waste of OCTers time? I came here looking for serious research but most, if not all I have seen as the same old stuff from Loose Change etc. Can the you at least offer the Forums theory for 9/11? CD, no planes?

[grizz]

So what would you consider a good use of your time? Can you not see that debunking truthers sources and again again is a waste of OCTers time?

A good use of time is moving forwards, not backwards. If you really think you are going to convince anyone here that we are wrong and everything that happened on 9/11 is as the government says, you indeed are wasting your time.

I came here looking for serious research but most, if not all I have seen as the same old stuff from Loose Change etc. Can the you at least offer the Forums theory for 9/11? CD, no planes?

I think you're not looking hard enough. Pilots for 9/11 Truth.org is about the airplanes involved, and they have done a great amount of quality research based on official information and science. They work hard to be as accurate and factual as possible. If some of that research is transfered to LCF, great! Just remember that it originated here, not there.

The Pilots do not offer theory, but it is discussed in the forum. If you check around, you will see that what is in the forum is not necessarily the view of the professional organization. The idea that the 'Forum' would have a theory is moot. The forum is a collection of individuals, each of whom has his/her own thoughts. Generally, we are not no-planers, if that is what you are asking. If you wish to know the individual thoughts and beliefs on that issue, I suggest that you read some of the current no-plane threads.

We are a diverse crowd here. There is no 'like mind'. We are free individuals. Think about it. That's the bottom line of all of this. And you are free to believe whatever you wish.

But understand, by and large the members of this forum do not believe the OCT nor will we ever.

[dMz]

I am alone and for number 2 is 100 agree or disagree?

Read the questions and links above again Wibble.

I recall #2 being about what percentage you support and/or believe the "Arab boxcutter" OCT.

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/support

1: to endure bravely or quietly : bear
2 a (1): to promote the interests or cause of
(2): to uphold or defend as valid or right : advocate <supports fair play>
(3): to argue or vote for <supported the motion to lower taxes> b (1): assist, help <bombers supported the ground troops> (2): to act with (a star actor)
(3): to bid in bridge so as to show support for c: to provide with substantiation : corroborate <support an alibi>3 a: to pay the costs of : maintain <support a family> b: to provide a basis for the existence or subsistence of <the island could probably support three — A. B. C. Whipple> <support a habit>
4 a: to hold up or serve as a foundation or prop for b: to maintain (a price) at a desired level by purchases or loans; also : to maintain the price of by purchases or loans
5: to keep from fainting, yielding, or losing courage : comfort
6: to keep (something) going

http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/believe

1 a: to have a firm religious faith b: to accept as true, genuine, or real <ideals we believe in> <believes in ghosts>
2: to have a firm conviction as to the goodness, efficacy, or ability of something <believe in exercise>3: to hold an opinion : think <I believe so>

transitive verb
1 a: to consider to be true or honest <believe the reports> <you wouldn't believe how long it took> b: to accept the word or evidence of <I believe you> <couldn't believe my ears>
2: to hold as an opinion : suppose <I believe it will rain soon>

For the record, you can believe whatever you want Wibble. I'll wager that you might find the J. Randi forum more to your liking- you are becoming tedious here.

[Wibble]

Just back checking the rules as requested etc.

"one who is or remains loyal especially to a political cause, party, government, or sovereign"

The truth is not a cause, party, government or sovereign.

And a quick quiz- If it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck it most likely is a __________?

Got it................Goose. Do I get a price. Or is this just more waffle old boy?

[dMz]

Got it................Goose. Do I get a price. Or is this just more waffle old boy?

Wibble, you seem obsessed with waffles. Are you hungry? Or Belgian perhaps?

Since you haven't elaborated on your definition of "waffle" yet, or provided a sourced example of what you claim that I am "waffling" on, I did a search.

Strangely, most of the hits came back linked to a Rupert Murdoch enterprise- is this where you get your "facts" then Wibble?

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,309196,00.html

http://elections.foxnews.com/2008/04/22/po...win-pa-primary/

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,303857,00.html

http://bobmccarty.com/tag/fox-news/

Relevance of waffles (or pancakes or licorice for that matter) to 9/11 is? (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/dunno.gif)

Oh yes, BTW: post #54 on the relevant topic at hand:
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10744638

EDIT: Methinks someone might be "wibbling" again...

EDIT2: As of 15:56 on July 16, 2008, Wibble isn't banned either (but still has a fairly high warning meter). From Wibble's profile today :"Last Seen: 15th June 2008 - 03:06 AM "

Reason for edit: Wibble's absences

[Beached]

You are treating people who believe the Official Story as second rate humans.

That's a little harsh, although you could argue that it is those who supported the OCT all along who are both directly and indirectly responsible for the financial mess we find ourselves in today. I mean, for aguments sake, let's assume the OCT were 100% accurate... can you not deny that at the very least you brought this on yourselves? Like Lorraine Bobbit, the Arabs took enough abuse and decided to hit back! While such actions are deplorable, can you honestly blame them? If I were you I'd draw a line under the whole thing and get on with your life! (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

[dMz]

It looks like fransan missed a little and posted his? answers on a UA93 thread in the Aircraft section when referred to this thread earlier.

I'll help out and post those answers to the questions above here below now:

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10745791

"About the questions:
1. What other user ID's do you frequently use online? At what websites or forum
Don´t have other user ID´s. Have a couple for credit cards, but I wouldn´t disclose those.
I don´t visit forums on the web, except for this one.
2. What percentage(s) would you estimate that you support and/or believe the "Official" "boxcutter Arab" Conspiracy Theory (OT, OCT, or OGCT) on a scale of 0-100?
100%. I believe it was a LIHOP event.
3. Did you bring any of your associates with you? If so, how many are in your party? Please have them each sign this guest book too.
No.
4. Why did you choose your particular userID? Does it have any significance or obscure reference that you would like to share with us?
I like the sound of it, and has no significance or obscure reference.
5. Do you have any online websites or resources that you would like to recommend to us?
Yes. www.cs.purdue.edu They have an excellent simulation on the airliner crash and the damage it causes to one of the wtc towers.
6. MOST IMPORTANTLY: What exactly do you hope to accomplish at or bring to this Forum?
I´m interested in reading what professionals in aviation are achieving in their research on 9/11. And the ideas and theories they have. Don´t expect to accomplish much since I don´t consider myself expert in any field discussed here.
7. Have we seen you under another user ID here before? If so, which one(s)?
No.
8. Do you have any favorite rhetorical techniques? Which ones?
No."

P.S. You can keep your credit cards private fransan, no one here asked you about those BTW. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[dMz]

Heeeeere's Roark!

May 21, 2008
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10741344

[I think I taught him the word "plenum"]
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10743129

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10743130

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10741490

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10741508

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10741486

NOTE: Contrary to Randiite claims, as of 13:53 EDT on July 16, 2008 Roark has never been banned here at P4911T [but the Randiites spell that Pfffft]. Roark has made 42 posts to date and does not indicate being in the "banned" users group- take a look at Roark's current profile.

EDIT: From Roark's profile today:
"Last Seen: 10th June 2008 - 03:44 PM "

EDIT:
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....showtopic=13210

Reason for edit: Roark's absences

[adam_zapple]

Preface: I am not an "OCT Loyalist", so per the rules of this forum I am not obligated to even answer these questions, but I will since dmole was kind enough to answer some of them himself.

1. What other userID's do you frequently use online? At what websites or forums?
Adam_zapple, 909463. I don't participate in many forums, some newsgroups & irc.

2. What percentage(s) would you estimate that you support and/or believe the "Official" "boxcutter Arab" Conspiracy Theory (OT, OCT, or OGCT) on a scale of 0-100?

Probably 60-80%*, but I would have to know the exact narrative you're referring to.

3. Did you bring any of your associates with you? If so, how many are in your party? Please have them each sign this guest book too.

No.

4. Why did you choose your particular userID? Does it have any significance or obscure reference that you would like to share with us?

Name/nickname combination. No.

5. Do you have any online websites or resources that you would like to recommend to us? Would these be "Gravysites" by any chance?

Wikipedia, Bazant's paper & response to jones' critique.

6. MOST IMPORTANTLY: What exactly do you hope to accomplish at or bring to this Forum?

Hopefully get a few of my questions answered, and everyone learns something in the process.

7. Have we seen you under another userID here before? If so, which one(s)? [nicepants, Roark, Wibble, "foxy," etc.]

No.

8. Do you have any favorite rhetorical techniques? Which ones?

No

9. Are you under the employment and/or contracted under agencies of the United States Government?

No.


*My loyalties are to the laws of science and physics. It doesn't matter to me which side the government is on, I will side with science and physics.

[dMz]

Thank you Adam, post approved (unfortunately I already set the clock ticking after your 3rd refusal and I don't see an "undo" option here). You can attempt to post, but your moderation queue will run through tomorrow, I believe.

EDIT: Adam has also referred to a small portion of ONLY ONE of the Forum Rules above (taken out of context, of course). The full list is linked at the top of this thread for reference.

1st Staff request:
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10746804

2nd Staff request:
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10746816

3rd Staff request:
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10746824

3rd (or more) refusal:
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10746826

Reason for edit: Accounting

[adam_zapple]

EDIT: Adam has also referred to a small portion of ONLY ONE of the Forum Rules above (taken out of context, of course).

I referred to the rule which you claimed required me to post the answers to the questions in this thread. I have not taken anything out of context, I posted the rule in question word-for-word.