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Molten Steel Beams - 9/11, New Footage

SanderO
post Dec 19 2011, 08:09 PM
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Let's take a look at that statement...

There were 47 core columns which would be the *path of most resistance and you had to get them out of the way as Amazed suggests by explosions. So from flr 93 down how many column sections were there? one every 3 stories 93/3 = 31. 31 x 47 =1,457 36' long sections. That's a lot of connections to explode.

What is the evidence of these explosions? The core actually survived in both towers to the 50th floor and higher... so it hard to claim that those columns were exploded and the path of most resistance was removed.

The visual evidence shows a FLOOR destruction/collapse... which led to the facade columns falling away... being pushed away... and then the core collapsing at the end.

If the core below the 50th floor did not collapse before the floors from floor 50 down.. then what was the mechanisn which destroyed 50 floors (less the 6 from the lobby)?
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DoYouEverWonder
post Dec 19 2011, 10:55 PM
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QUOTE (SanderO @ Dec 19 2011, 07:09 PM) *
The core actually survived in both towers to the 50th floor and higher... so it hard to claim that those columns were exploded and the path of most resistance was removed.

You're kidding? Right? Please show me a picture of a core 50 stories tall at ground zero after the collapses?

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SanderO
post Dec 20 2011, 12:23 AM
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1) Observed Behavior of WTC1 Core



The entire northern portion of the WTC1 core survived the initial collapse to about the 50th floor with some columns extending as high as the 70th floor. all with no visible trace of buckling. The surviving columns are identified in Appendix A. All columns in the 500 and 600 CC rows remained erect and largely interconnected though the initial collapse. One 700-800 column pair was also identified, probably 703-803. There is good reason to believe that some other 700-800 column pairs survived to about the 40th floor because when the west portion of the surviving core did fall, column pair 501-601 was seen to fall with 703-803 in a single collective motion, suggesting all visible columns on the west were interconnected as a considerably larger structure just inside the obscuring dust. These images show that the flooring in the OOS n, nw and ne regions was stripped clean of the surviving columns.
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SanderO
post Dec 20 2011, 12:28 AM
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WTC2 Core remnant survives initial collapse



The first 30 seconds of this video shows a pair of core columns falling off to the right, with a good view of the pivot. It confirms the identification of columns shown above, since we know the northern pair of columns fell away by the time the image was taken.



Original analysis and follow-up discussion here




Created on 03/28/2011 04:44 AM by admin
Updated on 04/27/2011 01:20 AM by admin
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SanderO
post Dec 20 2011, 12:40 AM
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The two previous posts showing the core surviving the collapse of the floors and facade was from the 911 Free Forums.

http://the911forum.freeforums.org/index.php


There's some very good work going on there, but if you don't look... you can't see.

This post has been edited by SanderO: Dec 20 2011, 12:41 AM
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Tamborine man
post Dec 20 2011, 07:54 AM
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Are you going to answer this question from DYEW or not?


"You're kidding? Right? Please show me a picture of a core 50 stories tall at ground zero after the collapses?"


Cheers
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DoYouEverWonder
post Dec 20 2011, 10:42 AM
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QUOTE (Tamborine man @ Dec 20 2011, 06:54 AM) *
Are you going to answer this question from DYEW or not?


"You're kidding? Right? Please show me a picture of a core 50 stories tall at ground zero after the collapses?"


Cheers

Instead, SanderO avoids the direct question and shows us pictures of WTC 1 during the collapse, not AFTER. Yes, some core columns were still upright after the curtain wall fell away. But then something cut the legs out from under those core columns, which were embedded in bedrock and they collapses within seconds.

This post has been edited by DoYouEverWonder: Dec 20 2011, 10:45 AM
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DoYouEverWonder
post Dec 20 2011, 10:44 AM
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QUOTE (SanderO @ Dec 19 2011, 11:40 PM) *
The two previous posts showing the core surviving the collapse of the floors and facade was from the 911 Free Forums.

http://the911forum.freeforums.org/index.php


There's some very good work going on there, but if you don't look... you can't see.

I'm not surprised you're comfortable there. Thanks, but I tried them once and it was enough. I have my own site to take care of and I don't do this for a living. If I did, maybe I'd have time for such things.

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SanderO
post Dec 20 2011, 01:31 PM
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I answered the question.

The core columns SURVIVED the floor collapse... they did not CAUSE IT... and they DID collapse because the floor collapse destroyed the bracing and left the core columns unstable and they then collapsed.

This is a matter of sequence... If the core columns were not destroyed first... and they weren't... then they collapse was not through the path of most resistance.

The floors seem to have collapsed first, followed by the facade then the core. The core was up to 50 stories tall standing without the floors or the facade before it too collapsed.

If you don't want to see the research and the data.. fine. It's there.
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DoYouEverWonder
post Dec 20 2011, 03:35 PM
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QUOTE (SanderO @ Dec 20 2011, 12:31 PM) *
I answered the question.

The core columns SURVIVED the floor collapse... they did not CAUSE IT... and they DID collapse because the floor collapse destroyed the bracing and left the core columns unstable and they then collapsed.

This is a matter of sequence... If the core columns were not destroyed first... and they weren't... then they collapse was not through the path of most resistance.

The floors seem to have collapsed first, followed by the facade then the core. The core was up to 50 stories tall standing without the floors or the facade before it too collapsed.

If you don't want to see the research and the data.. fine. It's there.

And that sequence could have only happened with well timed explosives. Even if the curtain walls failed and managed to pull all the floor slabs and trusses with them, the inner core should have been able to survive for at least 30 - 50 floors above grade.



This is all that remained once the dust settled.

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amazed!
post Dec 20 2011, 04:39 PM
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SanderO

We've probably discussed this before, and my apologies for asking again, but how is it that you reconcile the presence of the chemicals produced during the thermite reaction?

Happy Holidays.
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SanderO
post Dec 20 2011, 08:58 PM
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DYEW,

"And that sequence could have only happened with well timed explosives." Who says? There is a paper written about progressive floor collapse:

"Vlassis, A.G. (2007). Progressive Collapse Assessment of Tall Buildings, PhD Thesis, Department of Civil and Environmental Engineering, Imperial College London.

Progressive Collapse of Multi-Storey Buildings due to Sudden Column Loss – Part I: Simplified Assessment Framework
http://spiral.imperial.ac.uk/bitstream/100...Buildings_I.pdf

Progressive Collapse of Multi-Storey Buildings due to Sudden Column Loss – Part II: Simplified Assessment Framework
http://spiral.imperial.ac.uk/bitstream/100...uildings_II.pdf

Kaewkulchai, G., and Williamson, E.B. (2006). “Modelling the Impact of Failed Members for Progressive Collapse Analysis of Frame Structures,” Journal of Performance of Constructed Facilities, ASCE, 20(4), pp. 375-383.

The paper "Progressive Collapse of Multi-story Buildings Due to Failed Floor Impact" by A.G. Vlassis, B.A. Izzuddin, A.Y. Elghazouli and D.A. Nethercot. is available at this link.

From the introduction:

"It is concluded that such structures are susceptible to progressive collapse initiated by impact of a failed floor, mainly due to insufficient ductility supply under combined bending and axial deformation modes. Moreover, the development of shear failure modes is identified, thus further increasing the observed vulnerability of the studied floor system. Since these shear
modes of failure are expected to be even more pronounced when the actual dynamic rather than the static response of the impacted floor is considered, the need for further research work focussing on the shear capacity of a variety of connection types subject to extreme events is established. Finally, practical design recommendations that can improve the impact response of floor systems exposed to impact from the floor above are made."

page 24: "Hence, it can be easily concluded that in the event of failure and subsequent impact of a single floor plate onto the floor plate below, the lower impacted system, modelled using a grillage-type approximation, is highly unlikely to possess sufficient dynamic load carrying capacity to resist the imposed dynamic loads and prevent progressive collapse."

page 26: "Thus, although assessment is based on a simplified grillage-type approximation rather than a detailed slab model, the explicitness of the results leads to the conclusion that a floor system within a steel-framed composite building with a typical structural configuration has limited chances to arrest impact of an upper floor. This is particularly true when the falling floor completely disintegrates and falls as debris without retaining any residual strength or spanning capability."

page 27: "To conclude, although there is room for further improvements with respect to its accuracy and applicability, the proposed assessment methodology provides an effective platform to rationally tackle the scenario of floor impact, which is one of the most prevalent progressive collapse initiation mechanisms."


According to the studies above, sustained progressive floor collapse in the open office space regions surrounding the core seem quite possible within the WTC structures and is worthy of further investigation."

The core was not stable because the collapse floors destroyed the bracing which turn the core for a 3D lattice... to separate columns up to 720 feet tall which minimal bracing. This was unstable and you can see some of the tall columns topple over others buckle from their own weight. If the bracing HAD survived the core would have remained standing. Look up Euler Buckling.
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SanderO
post Dec 20 2011, 09:14 PM
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Amazed,

I am not a chemist... just a dumb architect. My understanding is that there was unreacted nano thermite found in 4 dust samples found outside the WTC site... in the dust from the destruction. I have no idea how to explain it. It may be related to the initiation of the collapse. My understanding from talking once with Niels Harrit that he believed there would have been no more than 4 tons of it. But this is a pretty estimate because there were only 4 samples. Nevertheless NT should not be in the WTC dust and it needs to be explained. I have no explanation.

If you are referring to other artifact such as micro spheres... I believe there was some very hot local situations... like high voltage arcs Which could produce the heat to melt, atomize and blast away the melted metal. I also believe that the were conditions CREATED where lots of chemicals mixed together with the heat from the friction of the mechanical destruction could cause odd exothermic reactions... even thermite like ones since the elements iron oxide, aluminum and sulfur were present. I am not a chemist and so I can't tell you with any confidence that this is possible. I suspect it is. The heat was enormous and lasted for several months.

Kevin Ryan made themite in his back yard with those chemicals... a few beakers, water and heat... Seems this was conceivable in the towers destruction... But that's the only explanation aside from these chemicals being placed there that I can come up with.

I don't think it's inconceivable that the planes that hit the towers... delivered more than jet fuel... include NT or thermite. If the objective was to collapse the core and then cause the progressive floor collapse.. perhaps the planes COULD deliver the themite or NT to weaken the core with heat along with the columns destroyed by the strike.

I do believe that collapse part..not the initiation part... did not require explosives.
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amazed!
post Dec 21 2011, 10:23 AM
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That's a fair reply Sander.

I'm just a dumb pilot--neither chemist nor architect nor engineer. rolleyes.gif

But there is a rather simple explanation for the presence of those chemicals, and it is the elephant in the room. The explanation is that weapons-grade thermite products were used by the perpetrators.

Since there are so many OTHER fingerprints of military operations in the events of the day, this makes one more.

Common sense DOES play a role out here in the Court Of Public Opinion, and the Big Picture has its own quality of consistence--military and spook agencies contributed mightily, if not exclusively.
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SanderO
post Dec 21 2011, 05:24 PM
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Amazed,

I have no confidence in the Al Qaeda story and so that leaves the question open my mind as to who did it... and certainly it could be an intel/military type operation. But it had to be very compartmentalized and and it all gets very complicated to try to nail down.. so I prefer to stick with falsifying the OCT and any other myth out there.... like collapsing through the path of most resistance.. or that symmetry mean something... or false statements about debris ejected...
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amazed!
post Dec 22 2011, 10:43 AM
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My guess Sander, is that you never served in the military.... pilotfly.gif
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SanderO
post Dec 22 2011, 11:35 AM
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Amazed,

Your guess is correct... I don't think I missed much.
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amazed!
post Dec 22 2011, 04:49 PM
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I do not hold that against you Sander, or anybody else who never made it into the military.

Just as I cannot appreciate the various cultural fine points of being an architect, and neither of us can appreciate the cultural fine points of being physicians, those who were never in the military cannot appreciate that culture.

And the point is that the events of 11 September, and all that we have learned about them in the intervening 10 years, have a distinctive military flavor. Obviously the Pentagon is a HUGE part of the story. Those who never learned the military mindset, and the military way of doing things, cannot appreciate the finer points. It's no fault of theirs, but they are naive.

This was a false flag operation, planned and executed with miliary precision. The flavor of the military permeates the whole thing and cannot be ignored.

Those towers came down by way of military methods. Probably much civilian assistance, but it was military all the way. IMO, the molten steel is the biggest clue at WTC.
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SanderO
post Dec 23 2011, 12:11 AM
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Amazed,
I can't disagree with you when you write that with intimate knowledge of a discipline or a genre one can't understand it very well... and so I can't read cat scans or perhaps see military planning or the finger prints of a military operation. I do know that the military has screwed up all the wars it has engaged in over the last half century and so they clearly are not infallible.

The presence of molten metal, like the presence of unreacted nano thermite in dust samples must be explained. But I would point out that we don't much about the NT... there were only 4 samples and this has not been confirmed by other scientists. If it was in those 4 samples, it should be in any sample and I am waiting to learn if this is true.

The same sort of confirmation is required for the molten metal reports. I don't think that anyone can say with certainty what the metal was which was pouring out of the South Tower from some videos taken thousands of feet away. Yes we can under controlled conditions determine what a material is by the color it glows. But this was far from a controlled condition and there were many variables which make the determination less reliable. And of course why do we see it only in one corner which is not a particular key part of the structure? If similar examples were seen at multiple corners in both towers it might re inforce the notion that this was some sort of thermite or incendiary attack of the steel in the corners... which by the way were the columns which supported the least weight of any of the columns in the towers. Why attack the weakest columns?

There are reports of molten steel from deep under the pile... and images of what appears to be dripping iron from some steel carried on a front loader or something. This too needs to be explained. One guess is that the collapse created a soup of the right chemicals which mixed with water and heat and ignited and produced an exothermic reaction like thermite. Is this possible? I don't know. it's conceivable because the chemical to produce thermite were abundant in the twin towers... aluminum, sulphur and iron oxide. If this sort of spontaneous exothermic reaction is not possible... then perhaps there was thermite or similar which was placed in the structure and migrated down to the bottom of the pile. It certainly wasn't responsible for cutting the core columns down there because you can see most of the core columns were intact in the basement and some even stood above the rubble pile.

If there was molten metal it must be explained. At this date the evidence is still very sketchy and no conclusions can be drawn... and hence we want a new investigation to answer these questions.

It makes perfect sense that 9/11 was a false flag operation. But making sense and having proof are two different things. We need proof.
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amazed!
post Dec 23 2011, 10:51 AM
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I have all the proof I need sir.

Happy Holidays
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