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The Sockpuppets Invading P4t, Like cockroaches, they are arriving

rob balsamo
post Mar 7 2014, 10:49 AM
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QUOTE (Quest @ Mar 7 2014, 06:44 AM) *
Rob, forget about "sock puppets". Trolls are trolls regardless of whatever form they come here. Almerie is a troll, plain and simple. Ask him if 911 was an inside job. Ask him if the towers were controlled demolitions in the forum, not in a PM. Let's see where that gets you.

Understand Rob, our only concern is the health of PFT.



Quest,

Pilots For 9/11 Truth do not go around screaming "9/11 Was An Inside Job" with black shirts on.... do you know why?

This is our Mission Statement and has been on our front page since 2006. Pay close attention to the bolded and underlined statement.

Pilots for 9/11 Truth is an organization of aviation professionals and pilots throughout the globe who have gathered together for one purpose. We are committed to seeking the truth surrounding the events of the 11th of September 2001. Our main focus concentrates on the four flights, maneuvers performed and the reported pilots. We do not offer theory or point blame at this point in time., However, we are focused on determining the truth of that fateful day based on solid data and facts -- since 9/11/2001 is the catalyst for many of the events shaping our world today -- and the United States Government does not seem to be very forthcoming with answers or facts.

We do not accept the 9/11 Commission Report -- a Commission admittedly "set up to fail" according to the Chairman himself, nor "hypothesis" as a satisfactory explanation for the continued gross violation(s) of the United States Constitution being committed by Government agencies, and the sacrifice every American has made and continue to make -- some more than others.

We stand with the numerous other growing organizations of Firefighters, Medical Professionals, Lawyers, Scholars, Military Officers, Veterans, Religious and Political Leaders, along side Survivors, family members of the victims -- family members of soldiers who have made the ultimate sacrifice -- including the many Ground Zero workers who are now ill or have passed away, when we ask for a true, new independent investigation into the events of 9/11.

Thank you for taking the time to inform yourself.


We also do not endorse the WTC CD theory as we are not experts in Structural Engineering.

This has been explained many times on our main website and throughout this forum. You claim to have been a "member in good standing" here, but yet you are unaware of our position and work. All I have actually seen you do is push wild theories, start fights on this forum, and whine to me about someone being a troll or shill because they've asked you questions to support your theories. Why is that?



QUOTE (Quest @ Mar 7 2014, 06:53 AM) *
And herein lies the problem. Of all people Rob, you sneer at this topic while actual scientists and meteorologists are claiming an active geoengineering operation is underway. The trolls and politically correct in the truth movement are following your lead. You show disdain for the topic, even belittling it. You should know better than this as a site owner. Rob, I am challenging YOU to a debate. Line up whatever resources you want and I will do the same. We will use the geoengineering forum here and have an open, productive discussion.


Quest, as you well know I have allowed topics here in which many other forums have banned. I have provided my reasons for not believing in chemtrails 100% and why I am allowing discussion here on such a topic. I have no real interest in chemtrails because I know how pressurization systems work on aircraft and if your beliefs were true, people would be dying or dead in the thousands daily correlating to air travel. I have also shown that Weather Modification is a fact, but it is not proven if it is on a large scale nor for nefarious purpose. I have offered an opportunity to obtain conclusive proof, in fact JimMac was receptive to the idea in discussion via PM with me. After creating a forum section for the specific discussion, my proposal is hand waived, and people are accused of being trolls and shills.

This is the very reason you do not have more pilots interested in chemtrails. And in fact when people/pilots question your beliefs and/or ask for more evidence, you call them trolls and shills.

How about this Quest..... How about I ban all NPT and chemtrail discussion from this forum as many other forums have done? In fact, I have taken heat from some our Core members for some of the types of discussion I have allowed on this forum. I get it from both sides. And if it comes down to a Core member leaving or you... guess who is gonna lose.

You can either discuss it, or I can shut it down. Up to you.

I don't know your real full name, I don't know where you live.. I don't know what you do for a living... for someone I have "known" for years... I actually don't know anything about you, except from what I have seen on these forums. And I am not liking what I am seeing.

My main point, do not accuse people of being trolls or shills just because they require more evidence regarding a theory which can be easily proven by just getting an airplane and flying through some "chemtrails". And until that day happens, you will not get much support from the aviation community. If you have a problem with a user, PM the staff with a link. Do not inflame or bait others by continuing to accuse them of being trolls or shills without staff confirmation, or it is you who will be shown the door. And quite frankly, it won't be much of a loss as perhaps some of our members who have complained to me about the wild theories you push, might come back...
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Quest
post Mar 7 2014, 03:15 PM
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Just great. JimMac quit the forum. This is what happens when trolls roam unchecked.
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rob balsamo
post Mar 7 2014, 03:41 PM
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QUOTE (Quest @ Mar 7 2014, 02:15 PM) *
Just great. JimMac quit the forum. This is what happens when trolls roam unchecked.


JimMac violated the forum rules. He was warned. He was not banned, nor suspended. His ego couldn't take it, he left.

So be it.

Keep in mind all of the above occurred after I created a forum section for people to discuss chemtrails who wish to discuss chemtrails.

It seems after I created such a section, people were more focused on attacking each other than actually discussing chemtrails.
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poppyburner
post Mar 7 2014, 07:01 PM
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QUOTE (JimMac @ Mar 7 2014, 04:08 AM) *
I'm leaving this form in disgust. Rob has my rebuke.
Carry on the good fight, those of you who know.
Jim


"Jimmy, Jimmy, oh Jimmy Mack, when
are you coming back?"


Come on, don't be a drama queen.
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bill
post Mar 9 2014, 07:05 PM
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Well, I haven't been here much lately but, reading what is happening over geo-engineering discussions I can see plainly that the trolls are winning --

I have to admit that they are very good at what they do

So, Rob, does that mean that you won't be debating Quest on geo engineering ?
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rob balsamo
post Mar 9 2014, 08:43 PM
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QUOTE (bill @ Mar 9 2014, 07:05 PM) *
So, Rob, does that mean that you won't be debating Quest on geo engineering ?


Bill, you are a pilot.

Are you familiar with pressurization systems?

If so, are you willing to debate me with regard to airliners who fly through higher concentrations of "chemtrails" at altitude daily with cabins full of passengers?

But to answer your question, sure, I am willing to "debate" Quest on such a topic. And I have told him what he needs to do to provide support for his argument, including the fact I have offered my services to obtain such proof.

From what I have seen so far, "Quest" gets very upset when others ask for actual evidence and chain of custody... and has attacked others calling them trolls and shills.

In short, debating "Quest" on such a topic is like debating a 15 year old on how to drive a car in which the 15 year old knowledge is derived mostly from playing GTA on a PS3.

Quest has absolutely zero aeronautical knowledge, and gets frustrated when put in a tight spot in which he cannot answer. The same goes for JimMac.

But you do have some aeronautical knowledge. So at least you know the language a bit....

So Bill, wanna debate me on "chemtrails"?
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Tamborine man
post Mar 10 2014, 05:12 AM
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QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Mar 7 2014, 11:43 PM) *
Bill, you are a pilot.

Are you familiar with pressurization systems?

If so, are you willing to debate me with regard to airliners who fly through higher concentrations of "chemtrails" at altitude daily with cabins full of passengers?


I'm one of those being deeply ignorant about any kind of "systems" on aircrafts.

Following the "chemtrail discussions", i was led to believe that aircrafts of any

size would carry their own air supply in smaller or much bigger containers,

according to the size of any particular 'aeroplane'!

Now i'm not too sure about this, so would 'happily' like to hear a discussion

about the "real state of affairs" of how the 'air' is supplied to the pilots, crews

and passengers! thumbsup.gif

Cheers
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rob balsamo
post Mar 10 2014, 08:05 AM
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QUOTE (Tamborine man @ Mar 10 2014, 05:12 AM) *
Now i'm not too sure about this, so would 'happily' like to hear a discussion

about the "real state of affairs" of how the 'air' is supplied to the pilots, crews

and passengers! thumbsup.gif

Cheers


http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...&p=10811789
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bill
post Mar 10 2014, 09:09 AM
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QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Mar 9 2014, 07:43 PM) *
Bill, you are a pilot.

Are you familiar with pressurization systems?

If so, are you willing to debate me with regard to airliners who fly through higher concentrations of "chemtrails" at altitude daily with cabins full of passengers?

But to answer your question, sure, I am willing to "debate" Quest on such a topic. And I have told him what he needs to do to provide support for his argument, including the fact I have offered my services to obtain such proof.

From what I have seen so far, "Quest" gets very upset when others ask for actual evidence and chain of custody... and has attacked others calling them trolls and shills.

In short, debating "Quest" on such a topic is like debating a 15 year old on how to drive a car in which the 15 year old knowledge is derived mostly from playing GTA on a PS3.

Quest has absolutely zero aeronautical knowledge, and gets frustrated when put in a tight spot in which he cannot answer. The same goes for JimMac.

But you do have some aeronautical knowledge. So at least you know the language a bit....

So Bill, wanna debate me on "chemtrails"?




There is no debate about the facts presented clearly at many websites including Carnicom, and Geoengineeringwatch The DVD "Shade" is well done also

Kirsten Meghan has come forward with information from her time in the Airforce where she handled the environmental forms for the Air Force purchase of Aluminum and Barium materials

She has spoken with other mechanics and Airforce personnel that corroborate her information.

She also tested and found these materials in the environment.

there are clearly disinformation sites as well including metabunk

In at least one of Meghan's youtubes she mentions metabunk as a disinformation site

The fact that slick, well funded disinformation sites such as metabunk exist is a huge flag IMO.
It is worth spending major resources to run metabunk to 'somebody' -- why ?

Frankly, I think your 'argument' about passengers and pilots flying through this material is silly.

You may remember that thousands of innocent civilians were murdered and maimed on September 11, 2001 --Is your 'argument' that you think they may have qualms about poisoning a few pilots and passengers ?

Here is a paper written for the US Airforce back in the mid 90's, you may want to read before you attempt to debate anyone on weather modification or geoengineering

"Weather as a Force Multiplier: Owning the Weather in 2025"

http://csat.au.af.mil/2025/volume3/vol3ch15.pdf

Finally, I think denigrating intelligent, long time contributors by comparing them to 15 year old GTA players makes you look quite puerile.


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rob balsamo
post Mar 10 2014, 09:21 AM
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QUOTE (bill @ Mar 10 2014, 09:09 AM) *
Frankly, I think your 'argument' about passengers and pilots flying through this material is silly.


In other words, you don't know how aircraft pressurization systems operate.

Bill, as with 9/11 (linking parts recovered to the aircraft), anytime you get samples taken from an aircraft, please provide the tail numbers and crew names. Until then you have nothing but theories, and no chain of custody.

We already know Weather modification is a fact... but it has not been proven such operations are being performed on a large scale for nefarious purposes.

I have seen Kristen's presentation. It was interesting, but she didn't provide any evidence linking "chemtrails" to a specific aircraft, on a specific date, altitudes, origin airport, destination... names.... nothing.

Again, thousands of flights are airborne daily. If they are flying through high concentrations of "chemtrails" at altitude, there would be thousands of people dead or dying in correlation to air travel.

We have pilots with 25-30000 hours total flight time and in good health. How is that possible if they spend a good portion of their lives flying through chemicals sprayed in high concentrations at their altitudes?

Are the chemicals somehow benign and safe to breathe as they come out of the aircraft nozzles at altitude, while getting sucked into thousands of other aircraft engines flying through the materials, compressed, and pumped into cabins..... but somehow become more toxic when they hit the ground spread out over a wide area?



QUOTE
Finally, I think denigrating intelligent, long time contributors by comparing them to 15 year old GTA players makes you look quite puerile.


I think the fact that you completely dismiss the operation of pressurization systems containing thousands of people flying in and through allegedly high concentrations of chemicals at altitude daily makes you look ignorant.
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bill
post Mar 10 2014, 10:02 AM
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"Again, thousands of flights are airborne daily. If they are flying through high concentrations of "chemtrails" at altitude, there would be thousands of people dead or dying in correlation to air travel."



your assertion of thousands of casualties is based on what ?

are you a physician, environmental engineer, chemist ?

here's a thought, rob

get off your butt, and use some of your airline contacts and get an air filter or sample from an aircraft pressurization system dust etc. (any amount even a few milligrams will be enough)

send it to me (I'll even pay the freight)

I will get it analyzed by ICP-MS and report the results here
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rob balsamo
post Mar 10 2014, 10:06 AM
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QUOTE (bill @ Mar 10 2014, 10:02 AM) *
here's a thought, rob

get off your butt,


Yeah... because I have not done anything in pursuit of the truth... and only like to sit on my butt... rolleyes.gif


Here's a thought bill, get off YOUR butt and do something to gather evidence for YOUR theories. Namely chain of custody, tail numbers.. etc. Until then, you won't get much support from the aviation community with regard to "chemtrails", as we know how pressurization systems operate.
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bill
post Mar 10 2014, 10:15 AM
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QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Mar 10 2014, 09:06 AM) *
Yeah... because I have not done anything in pursuit of the truth... and only like to sit on my butt... rolleyes.gif


Here's a thought bill, get off YOUR butt and do something to gather evidence for YOUR theories. Namely chain of custody, tail numbers.. etc. Until then, you won't get much support from the aviation community with regard to "chemtrails", as we know how pressurization systems operate.



duh.....

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/34708785/ns/trav...k/#.Ux3IG_ldVf0

On average, cabin air is completely refreshed 20 times per hour, compared with just 12 times per hour in an office building. On most aircraft, air is also circulated through hospital-grade HEPA filters, which remove 99.97 percent of bacteria, as well as the airborne particles that viruses use for transport (many regional jets lack these filters). Additionally, cabins are divided into separate ventilation sections about every seven rows of seats, which means that you share air only with those in your immediate environment and not with the guy who’s coughing up a lung ten rows back. When the plane is on the ground, however, air circulation in the cabin can be greatly reduced.



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rob balsamo
post Mar 10 2014, 10:32 AM
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QUOTE (bill @ Mar 10 2014, 10:15 AM) *
duh.....

http://www.nbcnews.com/id/34708785/ns/trav...k/#.Ux3IG_ldVf0

On average, cabin air is completely refreshed 20 times per hour, compared with just 12 times per hour in an office building. On most aircraft, air is also circulated through hospital-grade HEPA filters, which remove 99.97 percent of bacteria, as well as the airborne particles that viruses use for transport (many regional jets lack these filters). Additionally, cabins are divided into separate ventilation sections about every seven rows of seats, which means that you share air only with those in your immediate environment and not with the guy who’s coughing up a lung ten rows back. When the plane is on the ground, however, air circulation in the cabin can be greatly reduced.


NBC news? Really?

laughing1.gif

How often is the air "refreshed" on the ground while you are standing outside?

More or less than being inside a pressurized cabin?

Are the concentration levels of "chemtrails" more dangerous to humans when they reach the ground? Or are the concentration levels more dangerous if flying through something like this...



Are the "chemtrail" crews who fly such "criss-cross" patterns in the sky wearing O2 masks? Or do they just breath the air (and "chemicals") sucked into the engines, compressed, and then dumped into the cabin while waiting for it to "refresh"... with more "chemicals"?

lol

What about all the other airplanes flying through such high concentrations of "chemicals". Do the pilots drop the masks for passengers when they see such upcoming mayhem? And then ask the passengers to stow their masks after they pass through and a cabin "refresh"? What if they are stuck in a widespread "chemtrail" operation for more than an hour? 2 hours? 3? What then?


Please bill..... save it.

Again, this theory is very easily proven. All one needs to do is go up there and fly through the stuff. Come back and test the samples. Then we will all have conclusive proof either way. It seems proponents of "chemtrails" do not want make such an effort and would rather argue with people endlessly on the internet asking "Why aren't there more Pilots supporting Chemtrail Theories!?"

Well, I think you have your answer....

Get samples, get tail numbers, get crew names... origin airport... destination.... and then you may find more support for your theories. Until then, you are spinning your wheels.... but hey.. .feel free to discuss it here if you wish.. .that is why I created the forum section for "chemtrails". Please be familiar with the forum rules and have respect for this forum/organization... because as easily as I created it... I can also take it away... and show you the door.

Have fun!
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bill
post Mar 10 2014, 11:12 AM
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Assuming I did go and get the HEPA filters and have them analyzed by ICP-MS

Based on your previous interaction about this subject I fully expect that you would just deny that I had any proof

I asked you get the samples since, as an airline pilot, you are at airports frequently and could get the samples and chain of custody etc easily (well a lot easier than us non- airline pilots)

I can get them analyzed with an ICP -MS that will find what elements are present and at what concentrations down to ppb

like this

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rob balsamo
post Mar 10 2014, 11:19 AM
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QUOTE (bill @ Mar 10 2014, 11:12 AM) *
Based on your previous interaction about this subject I fully expect that you would just deny that I had any proof


Or how about this.....

I close the "Chemtrail" forum I created for those who wish to discuss "chemtrails". Ban all discussion of "Chemtrails", and ask you to take your theories elsewhere.....

Hey, I got an idea... how about you go create "Pilots For Chemtrail Truth"? Let me know if you need tips on how to create a website....

Would that be better?

This is Pilots For 9/11 Truth after all....

Bill, I have seen the filters from aircraft. If chemicals were being sprayed in high concentrations at altitude and an aircraft fly's through it, not only would the filters be caked with the stuff, but so would the airframe... similar to this....



Ever seen a crop duster after it gets done spraying a field? The airplane is filthy with particles caked all over... especially the empennage and tailwheel...
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bill
post Mar 10 2014, 12:40 PM
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"Bill, I have seen the filters from aircraft. If chemicals were being sprayed in high concentrations at altitude and an aircraft fly's (sic) through it, not only would the filters be caked with the stuff, but so would the airframe... similar to this...."


Gee, rob, that picture looks like ice to me, but then I am not an airline captain so maybe
I don't know what ice looks like (it's a King Air isn't it ? but I digress)

what makes you think that you would see the particles on the filters at or the aircraft wings at all ?

the patents for geoengineering using particles seem to favor very small particles of Aluminum and Barium salts

comparing them to crop dusting is ridiculous unless you know of some dusters that fly at Mach .8


it is ironic that trying to engage a meaningful discussion about this topic seems to turn into some variation of things I heard more than once in grade school in various forms --it went something like this

"if you don't like it, then I will just take my ball and go home"



rolleyes.gif



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rob balsamo
post Mar 10 2014, 01:10 PM
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QUOTE (bill @ Mar 10 2014, 12:40 PM) *
Gee, rob, that picture looks like ice to me, but then I am not an airline captain so maybe


It is Ice.... it is an example of what an airplane looks like when flying through solid visible particles.


QUOTE
what makes you think that you would see the particles on the filters at or the aircraft wings at all ?


For the same reason people like you claim to see them in the air.

Do you think these are chemicals?



And if so... Are those concentration levels of "chemtrails" more dangerous to humans who fly through the above.... Or are the concentration levels more dangerous if standing on the ground underneath them....? Second time asked....

Again...
Are the "chemtrail" crews who fly such "criss-cross" patterns in the sky wearing O2 masks? Or do they just breath the air (and "chemicals") sucked into the engines, compressed, and then dumped into the cabin while waiting for it to "refresh"... with more "chemicals"?

What about all the other airplanes flying through such high concentrations of "chemicals". Do the pilots drop the masks for passengers when they see such upcoming mayhem? And then ask the passengers to stow their masks after they pass through and a cabin "refresh"? What if they are stuck in a widespread "chemtrail" operation for more than an hour? 2 hours? 3? What then?

Why do you evade these questions?

How would they get airspeed readings? Do the pitot-tubes have HEPA filters as well? Or perhaps they just turn on the Pitot anti-ice and melt away the chemicals? lol

AOA vanes? TAT probes, FADEC probes? All have HEPA filters?



QUOTE
the patents for geoengineering using particles seem to favor very small particles of Aluminum and Barium salts


Are you now claiming that the particles/chemicals get through the HEPA filters and enter the cabin and the lungs of the passengers and crew? If so, why did you bring up the HEPA filters in the first place?


QUOTE
comparing them to crop dusting is ridiculous...


No, it isn't.

QUOTE
it is ironic that trying to engage a meaningful discussion about this topic


This discussion would not exist if I did not allow it. Again... this is Pilots For 9/11 Truth. Do you know how many of our Core members absolutely despise such a topic and think it is utterly ridiculous to even discuss?




QUOTE
"if you don't like it, then I will just take my ball and go home"


This is my "home". I am already here. Do you allow people to come into your home and shit on your floor? Maybe you do... but we have a higher standard on this forum and within our organization.

Again, let me know if you need tips in building your own "home"..


Bill, if you evade my questions again... on mod preview you go... until you answer...
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bill
post Mar 10 2014, 01:41 PM
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QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Mar 10 2014, 12:10 PM) *
It is Ice.... it is an example of what an airplane looks like when flying through solid visible particles.





"For the same reason people like you claim to see them in the air."


Well I do see the results of the particles as they appear to condense out in the upper atmosphere. I absolutely do not claim to see the Aluminum and Barium particles.





Do you think these are chemicals?

I think that they are artificially created persistent cloud formations induced by the chemical actions of Aluminum and Barium salts as proposed in several US patents.



And if so... Are those concentration levels of "chemtrails" more dangerous to humans who fly through the above.... Or are the concentration levels more dangerous if standing on the ground underneath them....? Second time asked....

I did not previously answer this because I assumed it was a rhetorical question

I would presume that the concentration is higher in the 'trails than at a lower level due to dilution effects through the atmosphere.

Again...
Are the "chemtrail" crews who fly such "criss-cross" patterns in the sky wearing O2 masks? Or do they just breath the air (and "chemicals") sucked into the engines, compressed, and then dumped into the cabin while waiting for it to "refresh"... with more "chemicals"?

I honestly do not know if they breathe separate air supplies. You have already confirmed that the cabin air is filtered. If they are military planes I would think it likely that they are breathing through masks but that is speculation only.

"What about all the other airplanes flying through such high concentrations of "chemicals". Do the pilots drop the masks for passengers when they see such upcoming mayhem? And then ask the passengers to stow their masks after they pass through and a cabin "refresh"? What if they are stuck in a widespread "chemtrail" operation for more than an hour? 2 hours? 3? What then?"

Well based on my several million miles flying commercial airlines I have never seen the emergency masks deployed. So based on my experience I would say no they don't deploy emergency masks.



"Why do you evade these questions?"

Because I did not think you were seriously asking these rather poorly worded and sarcastic questions and expecting an answer.





"Are you now claiming that the particles/chemicals get through the HEPA filters and enter the cabin and the lungs of the passengers and crew? If so, why did you bring up the HEPA filters in the first place?"

HEPA filters are what was listed in the article I posted as being used to filter the cabin air on commercial




No, it isn't.



"This discussion would not exist if I did not allow it. Again... this is Pilots For 9/11 Truth. Do you know how many of our Core members absolutely despise such a topic and think it is utterly ridiculous to even discuss?"

No I don't. How many ?



"This is my home. I am already here. Do you allow people to come into your home and shit on your floor? Maybe you do... but we have a higher standard on this forum and within our organization.

Again, let me know if you need tips in building your own "home"..


Bill, if you evade my questions again... on mod preview you go... until you answer...


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NP1Mike
post Mar 10 2014, 04:29 PM
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(I am replying in this thread simply because it is easiest to do, but isn't the topic of chemtrails supposed to go in the new chemtrail forum?)

I am not going to come down on the side of either one of you, as I have not studied chemtrails to any degree yet.

However, is it not possible that both of you gentlemen are correct?

ie. most/all of the 'chemtrails' we see in the skies are simply harmless water-based particles and the more harmful chemtrails are limited to strategic areas that busy air traffic never flies through?
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