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9/11: John Lear - Disinformation? Cia Operative?

Quest
post May 27 2010, 08:47 PM
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QUOTE (GroundPounder @ May 27 2010, 11:48 PM) *
it seems to me that the whole ufo thing is getting a lot of play lately, for whatever reason.


My impression is that either the 911 perps are becoming increasingly aware that the sheeple are not as easily fooled as they once were so the need to pull off the one hoax they always wanted to do, the alien invasion of earth, replete with alien craft and beings, needs to be put on the front burner. The news, entertainment and propaganda regarding aliens and UFOs must be ramped up to protect the myth of alien-flown UFOs otherwise that tool, aliens as threat to world, will be removed as a rallying cry and reason for the "people of the world to unite" as stated by the NWO's Ronald Regan, Kissinger and others. Yes, the myth of aliens and alien flown-UFOs must be protected because it also silmultaneously serves as a convenient cover for top-secret projects.

FAKE ALIEN UFO ATTACK FALSE FLAG PLAN
http://www.vloggingtheapocalypse.com/viewV...LAN___IMPORTANT
QUOTE
The pending false flag operation by the New world Order crowd, is a real threat to us all. In 1974 Dr. Carol Rosin the 19th Disclosure Witness, was introduced to Dr Werner Von Braun, the father of rocketry and warned her about a fake alien invasion. There has been a UFO coverup for more then half a century. The CIA have been using disinfo in mainstream media as a shield for black opps such as the Aurora the pulse detonation engined plane.
A typical example of disinformation is the
FOX News UFO Mexican Air Force report. As long as we believe the black opp planes are UFOs, We will never uncover the truth about real UFOs.
Bush now has a Defense Strategy against UFOs & ETs because of the disinfo.
At the end of the video Ronald Reagan talks to the UN about an alien threat to mankind to bring all nations together.21st September 1987


This post has been edited by Quest: May 27 2010, 09:30 PM
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johnlear
post May 27 2010, 10:14 PM
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QUOTE (elreb @ May 25 2010, 06:36 PM) *
It would be like Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, and Bill O’Reilly talking to Chris Mathews, Keith Obermann and Rachel Maddow…there is no point!




Yeah, like trying to have an intelligent conversation about UFO's and aliens with Quest.

" Me wantum scalp of alien first. "
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elreb
post May 27 2010, 10:32 PM
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Ground Pounder,

Many of us are “Rip-Van-Winkle’s” types just sitting back drinking Rum & Coke on the beach until one day we get an email from Rob calling us to the attention of the John Lear or Wayne Anderson sort.

Nothing has changed and nothing is going on. The conversation is fabulous. Asking John Lear or Wayne Anderson about this or that is not an invitation to throw a pie in their face.

Folks can’t just disagree because they have a big thumb and a bigger nose to put it in.

“Nana-nana-boo-boo” is not the same as having your own website, records or books.

“Well I can’t accept your answer unless you reveal what type of Rum and was is really coke?

If you had the ability to travel thru time, I would demand pictures of the time machine, a full working set of “as built” blueprints, permits, EPA results plus your “Time machine” operators certification.

Obama, really, really was born on Oahu. (Really) But...but show me a picture of his birth.
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elreb
post May 27 2010, 11:24 PM
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"Me wantum scalp of alien first”

John my exact thoughts…Zik..Zik…P’thhpp!

Voltron am king…

Ha…Ha…I actually also read some of the “Ashtar Space Command” data.

Interesting at best!

Most “Neanderthal” earth folks refuse to do their own homework.

B’aa’ab W’aada (just kidding) love Western land mass. Urthu bad people!

Well, don’t look at me, I’m just the messenger.
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Quest
post May 28 2010, 09:53 AM
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QUOTE (johnlear @ May 28 2010, 03:14 AM) *
Yeah, like trying to have an intelligent conversation about UFO's and aliens with Quest.

" Me wantum scalp of alien first. "

Sorry, John and the rest, I don't mean to sound like a hard-ass. But, in light of the 911 scam, USS Liberty, OKC bombing, the global-warming, avian flu, swine flu, west nile virus, the war on terror, war on drugs, gulf of tonkin, Pearl Harbor, Enron, BCCI, JFK, RFK, MLK and the 1938 NWO/CFR Martian invasion hoax, you are going to have to provide hard evidence to back up claim of UFOs and aliens, something the vast majority of the world has never seen. BTW, I am in my mid-50's and I know of no one - ever - to having claimed of seeing a UFO or alien. Show me close-up photos of aliens and UFOs, a live alien, DNA, UFO wreckage I can touch and examine and you might make me a convert. In the meantime, I think my time might be just as well be spent chasing bigfoot.

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tnemelckram
post May 28 2010, 10:03 AM
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Hi All!

Might as well toss my two cent's worth into this little hair pull.

I believe that there is lot of other intelligent life out there in the universe. The numbers are overwhelmingly in favor of it.

But we all got off from the same standing start (Big Bang or whatever). So it seems to me a real stretch to believe that any of the others developed so much faster than us and are able to do interstellar flight, which presents so many practical difficulties to us that appear impossible to overcome. IN addition, their life span would have to be much longer than ours simply because of the travel time that is still involved, even if you somehow figure out how to travel at light speed. There are very few stars within 100 light years of us and just about all of them are much farther away, so that shrinks the pool . It's really only practical if you have a thousands of year life span so a 100 year journey is a reasonably small part of your life span. Very few, perhaps none, of us would go on a journey that would take the rest of our lives.

I also can't figure out what would be so damned interesting about a species so far behind them that would make them want to keep coming back. The most likely reason would be that we are the only other intelligent life that they have found so far in their interstellar travels. But that suggests that they originate from one of the few nearby stars, which shrinks the pool of stars for such rapid development from billions to maybe a hundred, thereby destroying the entire premise of the Drake Equation..

I also raise an eyebrow when I consider how the beginning of the deluge of UFO sightings relates to other events. Goddard's rockets in the 1920's led to an explosion in the science fiction genre (such as Comic Books) in the 1930's. World War 2 introduced us to Nazi rockets that really worked and did something. Jet Planes appeared at the end of the War, and each of the winners claimed their share of Nazi scientists in 1946 and those governments put them to work to get men in space, with a realistic expectation of doing that within 15 years. Sure enough, with all those suggestive pieces in place, mass UFO sightings begin in 1947 (the guy in Washington or Oregon State?).

But I keep an open mind and read whatever I can find about UFO's including John's stuff. My head says there are no UFO's but my heart hopes they do exist.

SO I think I'm with Quest on this one.

This post has been edited by tnemelckram: May 28 2010, 10:19 AM
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GroundPounder
post May 28 2010, 11:26 AM
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while we are throwing our coins onto the table, i'll ante up. being in the 50's as well, i've been bs'ed for years. your list is not all inclusive quest smile.gif

nevertheless, my brother and mother saw a ufo one evening while we were camping on assateague (sp?) island md, ~40 years ago. my brother has passed on so i can't get the story from him and every time i broach the subject with my mom, the conversation wanders for whatever reason. i happened to be staring at the campfire and missed the event, even though they both said 'look'. it apparently came and went very quickly and silently.

as far as 'our' scientists go, i don't place a lot of stock in their theories either. reason and logic can get you so far, but then again...the mystics don't use those faculties.

nasa bothers me deeply for the whole moon landing hoax thing as well as their latest flyby of iapetus. having worked for a gov't contractor once upon a time, i've seen how the tiniest lie snowballs. after so many layers of bureacracy, the truth is nowhere to be found.

it would of course be a huge shame, if we could no longer differentiate the signal from the noise.
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johnlear
post May 28 2010, 12:09 PM
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QUOTE (tnemelckram @ May 26 2010, 12:03 PM) *
Hi All!

Might as well toss my two cent's worth into this little hair pull.

But we all got off from the same standing start (Big Bang or whatever). So it seems to me a real stretch to believe that any of the others developed so much faster than us and are able to do interstellar flight, which presents so many practical difficulties to us that appear impossible to overcome. IN addition, their life span would have to be much longer than ours simply because of the travel time that is still involved, even if you somehow figure out how to travel at light speed. There are very few stars within 100 light years of us and just about all of them are much farther away, so that shrinks the pool . It's really only practical if you have a thousands of year life span so a 100 year journey is a reasonably small part of your life span. Very few, perhaps none, of us would go on a journey that would take the rest of our lives.



tnemelckram, thanks for your input.

But using the speed of light as a limit to transportation has been proven wrong many times and Einstein (that old fraud) was wrong in just about everything else he said. His only Nobel prize was actually won by the work of his wife but she was more interested in money than fame. So she agreed to let Einstein take the credit if she could have the money. This was in 1921.

I like what Harald Nordenson had to say about Einsteins Theory of Relativity:

Nordenson, in his book "Relativity, Time and Reality: A critical investigation of the Einstein Theory of Relativity from a logical point of view":

"I have often met persons, especially outside Sweden, who have expressed their astonishment that Einstein was not awarded the Nobel Prize for his Theory of Relativity, which many people consider as one of the outstanding achievements of this century. As a member of the Swedish Academy of Science which distributes the Nobel Prizes of physics I am on the other hand very glad that this was not done, since the Theory of Relativity is not physics but philosophy and in my opinion poor philosophy."

Just for starters three examples of objects exceeding the speed of light many fold are:

(1) Cerenkov radiation
(2) antimesons
(3) superluminals

The facts are: aliens that can travel hundreds the times of the speed of light and are infinitely ahead of us in technology.

Einsteins theory of Relativity both general and special are based on these four postulates which are:

(1) The Principle of Equivalence,

(2) The Gravitation Red Shift,

(3) The Gravitational Bending of Light, and

(4) Perihelion Rotation (Mercury).

Each of which can easily be proven wrong.

While travel hundreds the times of the speed of light doesn't in itself prove there are aliens it would be more scientific to take that erroneous argument off of the table.
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Quest
post May 28 2010, 02:14 PM
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QUOTE (johnlear @ May 28 2010, 04:09 PM) *
The facts are: aliens that can travel hundreds the times of the speed of light and are infinitely ahead of us in technology.


Facts? Don't you need hard evidence and rigorous analysis to establish something as fact?

1.Which aliens? What galaxy are they from?

2. Where are the detailed photos/videos of said aliens flying their ships?

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johnlear
post May 28 2010, 03:25 PM
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QUOTE (Quest @ May 26 2010, 04:14 PM) *
Facts? Don't you need hard evidence and rigorous analysis to establish something as fact?


Yes, this is why I suggested you read "Gravitational Force of the Sun" by Pari Spolter. She uses hard evidence and rigorous analysis to prove her point that there is no basis for Newton's assumption that gravitational force is due to and is proportional to the quantity or density of matter.

QUOTE
1.Which aliens? What galaxy are they from?


You will have to use your own sources to find the answer to this question. I could tell you but then you'd ask me to prove it and I'd have to borrow a flying saucer and an alien to drive it and they are all tied for for Memorial day weekend.

QUOTE
2. Where are the detailed photos/videos of said aliens flying their ships?


Neither film nor video will work inside of a flying saucer. Sorry. Now regarding Terry Rivera
who photographed the inside the one (outside diameter about 30 feet) in the underground hangar near 29 Palms, I don't know what kind of film or camera he used or how they got it to work. Both Adamski and Menger says their still photos did not come out.

In the case of Terry's photo's he says he climbed up a ladder about 12 feet to get to the hatch which was open (it was hinged at the top) he says that when he reached in to put his camera in before climbing in himself the inside was as big as a football stadium although appearing to be about 30 feet in diamater looking from the outside where it hung in a net. Chew on that for a minute or so.

Happy Memorial Day weekend. smile.gif
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Quest
post May 28 2010, 04:07 PM
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QUOTE (johnlear @ May 28 2010, 08:25 PM) *
Yes, this is why I suggested you read "Gravitational Force of the Sun" by Pari Spolter. She uses hard evidence and rigorous analysis to prove her point that there is no basis for Newton's assumption that gravitational force is due to and is proportional to the quantity or density of matter.



You will have to use your own sources to find the answer to this question. I could tell you but then you'd ask me to prove it and I'd have to borrow a flying saucer and an alien to drive it and they are all tied for for Memorial day weekend.



Neither film nor video will work inside of a flying saucer. Sorry. Now regarding Terry Rivera
who photographed the inside the one (outside diameter about 30 feet) in the underground hangar near 29 Palms, I don't know what kind of film or camera he used or how they got it to work. Both Adamski and Menger says their still photos did not come out.

In the case of Terry's photo's he says he climbed up a ladder about 12 feet to get to the hatch which was open (it was hinged at the top) he says that when he reached in to put his camera in before climbing in himself the inside was as big as a football stadium although appearing to be about 30 feet in diamater looking from the outside where it hung in a net. Chew on that for a minute or so.

Happy Memorial Day weekend. smile.gif



John, the "evidence" you provide is no more different than many use to prove the existance of god. Somebody said god exists sprinkeled with a generous dash of 'faith'. This does not cut it in the scientific community, especially when considering the topic of UFOs where the supposed evidence and the witnesses are typically under control of the government and military, you know, the same NWO government and military that brought us 911, the moon landing hoax and 1938 Martin invasion hoax. If that is as good as your evidence gets, well, good luck with that.

Have a good weekend. salute.gif

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lunk
post May 28 2010, 06:17 PM
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if we were all yeast,
and someone was trying to ferment a beer...
that could take a while.

i think we are much greater than a yeast,
but we sure are all, kept in the dark.

...perhaps that makes for a better brew.

certainly seems to be something brewing,

we're kept in the dark, by the lies we are fed,
and it sometimes seems that the only thing we know,
is that some of those lies are false,
...or true.
ugh.

The official theory, when it comes to space-aliens,
seems to be that we haven't found them, yet.

The counter theory, as i have read it,
goes something like:
the universe has existed forever,
different kinds of space-aliens exist throughout,
with different kinds of advanced technologies.
People were "made" to be a slave race,
to manage the planet,
and serve the creatures, that created them.

There are other counter theories too,
but usually of a more dogmatic religious basis.

i liken to the idea that the universe is infinite in all directions,
and that makes every living creature, the lone center of everything.
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pan
post May 28 2010, 06:52 PM
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QUOTE (johnlear @ May 27 2010, 10:14 PM) *
Yeah, like trying to have an intelligent conversation about UFO's and aliens with Quest.

" Me wantum scalp of alien first. "


I believe you are correct Sir, Also he has an agenda against you I am sure, remember in one of my post I explain this. Also you notice he never answer any of my questions, he is like those politicians that never give you a straight answer plus he has use FAKE pictures from a source which I like to know why he did that but still nothing. Quest reminds me of the Ignorance lyrics,
Inside every cynical person, there is a disappointed idealist. blahblah1.gif
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elreb
post May 28 2010, 07:50 PM
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John,

I have begun the process of buying a used copy of Pari Spolter’s book.

With gravity being proportional to acceleration and not mass will help me in resolving several issues in my “No big bang” Universe. If fact, Mass-free energy fits my Star to Planet model.

I’m only guessing that the force or the initial shock wave emitted by a “Supernova” is proportional to the acceleration of the forces emitted by the relative collapse or implosion of the former Star and not necessarily it’s Mass.

The heavy upper surface falling towards the gravitational center and lighter media fleeing the center being exhausted at as high velocity energy
Example: In the evolution of Yosemite Valley in California, water & ice erosion caused sections of the upper valley to fall toward the lower valley causing high wind forces large enough to literally “Blow down” every tree in sight.

So the question would be, is it the acceleration of the material or the weight of the material that has the greatest influence on the disruption or distortion?

elreb
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rob balsamo
post May 29 2010, 05:35 PM
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All off topic posts split to here.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=20026

Please stay on topic.
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elreb
post May 29 2010, 06:43 PM
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John,

Let us say I was to put three views on the table.

If you drop a bowling ball and a marble from the top of the Sears Tower, they would or would not hit the ground at the same time as only air resistance is the issue and not the weight.

If you were on the space station and pushed a bowling ball into space with your hand, at the same time you fired a marble from a gun, into space, the marble would or would not have the greater energy over the bowling ball.

If the bowling ball and the marble were both planets, and captured by a young Star would the marble hold more gravitational attraction over the more massive yet slower bowling ball.

Is it the speed of axial rotation or the orbital speed that has the most affect?
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tnemelckram
post May 29 2010, 07:07 PM
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Hi Rob!

QUOTE
All off topic posts split to here. Please stay on topic.


Thanks for splitting off all that Alex Jones crap. As to that debate, I have no idea about what he might be, he could be anything, and really don't care to take the time to find out. All I know is Alex Jone's style is not my taste of play and one you get past his bluster there is really nothing of interest.

But what is interesting is this UFO stuff with John Lear. And I gotta go because I owe him a rebuttal to some points he made. Here I come Mr. Lear!
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tnemelckram
post May 29 2010, 08:34 PM
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Hi Mr. Lear!

Thanks for your response, from which I see we have a lot of common interests, newly among them quantum physics for the small stuff and relativity for the big stuff. My interest is purely a popular or lay interest. I can't do the math and don't like it anyway but as a lawyer I ran reason it through. That's why I am probably partial to Einstein and his thought experiments because I can follow him and reason it through without math. The amazing thing is his paper on Special Relativity was all thought experiment and no math at all! But that only involved constant motion, so when he turned to accelerating motion (uh oh!! Trajectories! Calculus!) he subbed the math for General Relativity, one whom came up with the Ricci Tensor that balanced Einstein's equations.


QUOTE
. . . . (E)instein (that old fraud) was wrong in just about everything else he said.

Einsteins theory of Relativity both general and special are based on these four postulates which are:
(1) The Principle of Equivalence, (2) The Gravitation Red Shift, (3) The Gravitational Bending of Light, and (4) Perihelion Rotation (Mercury). Each of which can easily be proven wrong.


None of Einstein's work involved quantum mechanics. That body of science was developed in the 1920's after Einstein's Relativity work was done.. And you are right that Einstein didn't agree with a lot of it and fell behind the curve of developing knowledge. But just about all physicists agree that the Relativities are holding up rather well in the realm of the very large, which is where our UFO talk belongs, because all UFO reports are reports of big enough to see flying objects that presumably got here across the interstellar distances..

But the only thing that by consensus opinion contradicts the Relativities in the realm of the very small is the instantaneous transfer of effects from one particle to another which appears to happen even across across interstellar distances. Einstein called this "spooky action at a distance" and did not agree. But the quantum guys still don't say that Einstein is easily proven wrong, in fact, they say his stuff holds up in the realm of the large, but breaks down in this respect in the quantum realm of the small. Only a small minority argues for trashing the Relativities all together.


QUOTE
But using the speed of light as a limit to transportation has been proven wrong many times . . . . .
. . . . . . .
Just for starters three examples of objects exceeding the speed of light many fold are: (1) Cerenkov radiation (2) antimesons (3) superluminals


These are all small, essentially mass less quantum particles. They all fit within the above discussion about instantaneous transmission of quantum effects across interstellar distances and are just three more of the many types of quantum particles about which that is true. But the UFO reports are all of objects which are large enough to contain humans and what we understand as propulsion systems, aerodynamic features and life support systems. That means that they are composed of a whole lot of quantum particles (just say zillions) joined together into structural substances, have great mass in quantum terms, and by definition have crossed the interstellar void. That means they are, by virtual consensus, subject to the Relativity world and cannot fit into the exceptions for single quantum particles such as the ones you list.

All the reports of UFOs fall into this trap by saying that they actually saw objects flying with large masses.

If the objects were flying at a thousandth of light speed, let alone at or over it, they would not see them at all! and there would be nothing to report. You can say they fly slower to make observations or something but (1) why do that and reveal yourself when you don't have to; and (2) if they are indeed so advanced to do the faster than light travel surely they have instruments that can make observations at that speed as well. EDIT TO ADD (3) If that speed is normal and state of the art to them, why would they even want to slow down to a visible speed, let alone waste effort on adding obsolete technology just to have a dual speed craft? It would be like building a car with horse harness up front because surely you will want to do forsake the engine and have a horse pull you instead. 2d EDIT TO ADD: And then conveniently, switching from extra light speed power to horse power has the effect of (1) making their craft behave in a way that our science tells us flying objects behave; (2) enabling us to see them; and (3) report their behavior consistently with our science,.

And of course the objects have to have large mass to accommodate creatures like us and fly in accordance with our science. Just another example of the Anthropic Principal in action.

This post has been edited by tnemelckram: May 29 2010, 10:17 PM
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pan
post May 30 2010, 06:03 AM
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Hi elreb,

I like to ask you in regard to Egypt, if you are aware of any secret excavation being carried out? If so what can you tell me about them?
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elreb
post May 30 2010, 12:58 PM
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They have been investigating the incident in September, where 6 people (Polish team from Warsaw University) died in mysterious circumstances, were buried alive in an illegal dig.

'Their research has revealed secret burial grounds and the possible location of Khufu's tomb. They have used ground penetrating radar to locate this as well as numerous locations of treasures hidden underground. Their interest in coming forward and releasing the film is to reveal the subterfuge, and encourage openness in regard to the discoveries being made out at the Plateau and around Egypt.

But their purpose there is much more complex. Go to their website, www.Gizamap.com and watch the presentation there, the intro and the one entitled "Earth Protection".

The information they are in the process of revealing may hold the key to preventing the pole shift and survival of humanity.
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