Jeff Hill Call To Ntsb, Jeff Hill's Qualifications? Options

[Satweavers]

I'm new to this site and forum. I see that there is a furious amount of investigation and speculation going on by a multitude of devoted members. I'm impressed by the membership of professionals in the aviation industry. I just watched the video in which Jeff Hill made attempts to question the NTSB about the discrepancies about the Flight 77 flight path altitude. While Jeff is clearly articulate and has made an industrious effort to educate himself about the intricacies of aviation safety, I get the clear sense that he is neither a commercial airline pilot, nor an aviation or aerospace industry professional. With the organization and credentialed membership you have assembled here, it seems that you should be able to work in an organized fashion to line up a credentialed member to make these sorts of official queries to the official agencies. A professional in aviation navigation, air traffic protocol, avionics and safety investigation would then be in the position to engage NTSB agents with a respectable amount of depth and authority. My sense is that Jeff could not have engaged an expert for very long before he found himself out of his depths, had the opportunity arisen. Can anybody direct me to investigations in which a Pilots For 9/11 member aerospace engineers, safety officers or FAA professionals have made such inquiries? Keep up the good work.

[Sanders]

I'm new to this site and forum... ... I just watched the video in which Jeff Hill made attempts to question the NTSB about the discrepancies about the Flight 77 flight path altitude. While Jeff is clearly articulate and has made an industrious effort to educate himself about the intricacies of aviation safety, I get the clear sense that he is neither a commercial airline pilot, nor an aviation or aerospace industry professional. With the organization and credentialed membership you have assembled here, it seems that you should be able to work in an organized fashion to line up a credentialed member to make these sorts of official queries to the official agencies....

So, this organization should tell someone like Jeff Hill NOT to take his own initiative and call the NTSB to ask some questions? Everybody out there should be calling the NTSP to ask questions ... and the FBI ... and NORAD ... and the BBC ... and CNN ... and their Congressman ... and ...

I think you can see my point. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Welcome to the forum (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/welcome.gif)

[dMz]

So, this organization should tell someone like Jeff Hill NOT to take his own initiative and call the NTSB to ask some questions? Everybody out there should be calling the NTSB to ask questions ... and the FBI ... and NORAD ... and the BBC ... and CNN ... and their Congressman ... and ...

Although I believe that Mr. Hill is a Canadian citizen, not a US citizen, I believe that the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution is applicable here (and as a US citizen, I fully and Constitutionally support Mr. Hill's specific inquiry referenced above, at least the Hill telephone inquiry that I remember [in conspicuous absence of a source in the OP] ).

"Amendment 1 - Freedom of Religion, Press, Expression. Ratified 12/15/1791. Note

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or
prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of
the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the
Government for a redress of grievances."

http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Am1

[Satweavers]

[quote name='dMole' date='May 18 2009, 09:32 PM' post='10771394']
Although I believe that Mr. Hill is a Canadian citizen, not a US citizen, I believe that the First Amendment of the U.S. Constitution is applicable here (and as a US citizen, I fully and Constitutionally support Mr. Hill's specific inquiry referenced above, at least the Hill telephone inquiry that I remember [in conspicuous absence of a source in the OP] ).


Excellent. You support the Constitution. I think everybody here does. What I'm talking about is making the very best use of every opportunity to extract information, and to harvest the very finest quality information possible. "Jeff" called THE person who 'signed off' on the NTSB report on the Flight 77 investigation. Clearly, that is a VERY high profile report. You will not get the best information (or in this case, ANY information) with a cold phone call and the expectation that this high profile person will divulge information to a cold caller... whether there is or isn't a cover up in progress. That person's career is hanging in the balance regardless, and he is very unlikely to discuss openly, sensitive information to an unknown caller who may take anything said and use it in any context he chooses. What you do is surf the bureaucracy and arrange an opportunity for an exchange... AND... you have somebody make the call who cannot be buried in technical jargon and who's depth of knowledge matches that of the person being questioned. You will get better quality information of the NTSB person feels that the person calling is asking intelligent, focused questions and they KNOW what they WILL understand the answers. The worst thing you can do is call and ask a question in a way that the person being questioned can tell your depth of understanding is quite shallow. In the case of the interpretation of the Flight Data Recorder discrepancy... you need a person who is up to the task. This organization is called "Pilots For 911 Truth". I am asking to be directed to interviews that have been conducted by members with sufficient technical and professional background to ask detailed questions and fully understand the replies from the officials to whom they are speaking, rather than someone who has played Microsoft Flight Simulator for three years or someone with 200 hours flying a Cessna. Mr. Hill has every right to do his best. Please direct me to interviews conducted by qualified aerospace professionals.

[Satweavers]

So, this organization should tell someone like Jeff Hill NOT to take his own initiative and call the NTSB to ask some questions? Everybody out there should be calling the NTSP to ask questions ... and the FBI ... and NORAD ... and the BBC ... and CNN ... and their Congressman ... and ...

I think you can see my point. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Welcome to the forum (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/welcome.gif)

Thanks. I applaud Jeff for his Moxie. He hit a brick wall. There seems to be an assumption that the brick wall is proof of coverup. As mentioned above and below, I can see other reasons why they were unresponsive. My intent is not to restrict anybody from asking questions. My hope is to learn where the fruits exist from inquiries made by credentialled, technical professionals who are members posting here. Any leads?

[tnemelckram]

I'm going to respond to Satweaver's Posts by questioning what he says on the specific matter at issue but at the same time giving him some credit for raising a valid larger point.

I've listened to the tape. Jeff Hill's questions were pointed enough to allow the NTSB guy to understand them and respond meaningfully if he chose to do so. The lack of response was not becasue Mr. Hilll was not a "credentialed member", a "professional in aviation navigation, air traffic protocol, avionics and safety investigations" or lacked "sufficient technical and professional background".

I do not take the obtuseness of the NTSB in the call to be "proof of coverup". First, if you look at some of the other threads on this site, it seems clear that the NTSB Report that Jeff was calling about is very superficial and the NTSB man's reluctance to respond might have been in recognition of or out of embarrassment over this instead of a desire to cover up. Second, government agencies are jealous of preserving their maximum powers of secrecy in all matters where citizens question their actions or seek information via vehicles such as FOIA. They instinctively stonewall in all matters because a failure to do so in one matter may set a precedent that open the dam in all matters.

Satweaver is right that serious investigations and public conclusions should be undertaken and made by "credentialed members" who are "professional in aviation navigation, air traffic protocol, avionics and safety investigations" and have "sufficient technical and professional background". PFT's recently completed Technical Paper in the aerodynamics associated with the North Path turn is an example of this.

[Sanders]

Satweavers, I understand what you are getting at, and I don't want us to get off on the wrong foot, but I think you're reading things into this without all the info. Jeff Hill isn't a core member, he's not even a regular poster, in fact I can't remember the last time he posted here. He is a nice guy, many of us know him from the Loose Change site where some of us were administrators before this site got up and running - Jeff created his own site, and his connection to P4T is mainly via that common demoninator of friendship at the Loose Change forum. He made his call to the NTSB of his own volition, and I appreciate his spunk in doing so and taping it and I personally never look a gift horse in the mouth. Our co-founder Rob has also called NTSB and the FBI regarding the discrepancies ... we all should. It might not do any good, and it is very seldom that one can finness one of these autocrats into devulging relevant or incriminating information, but is our right and duty to keep the pressure on - they work for us (at least, that's the way the system's supposed to work!).

[rob balsamo]

I didnt have time to read through all the replies, but....

Please note the date of the Jeff Hill call...

It was literally made when Pilots For 9/11 Truth were in our infancy. We had maybe 10 pilots total at the time and no equipment to record phone calls.

I personally asked Jeff to make the call since he was doing the same with various other agencies at the time (CDI, FBI.. .etc), and i knew he had the equipment and motivation to make such a call.

Since then, i have also personally corresponded with the NTSB several times. One in particular is an email exchange pinned in this section.


Newcomers, please take the time to browse the information, use our wonderful search function, and note dates posted. There is almost 3 years of research on this forum. Pilots For 9/11 Truth did not spawn overnight with the large number of credentialed experts we have today. We have grown, and continue to grow.


Keep in mind, the NTSB/FBI refuse to comment...to anyone.. .regarding the Sept 11 Data they provide... period. They have been questioned numerous times from various individuals, they will not comment. But this doesnt mean others shouldnt try as well.

This is another reason we have grown this organization with credentialed and verified experts. Eventually, the NTSB/FBI will be forced to comment.

Also keep in mind, every press release, article and technical paper published on our main website is sent to more than 100 media outlets (mainstream and alternative), airline union leadership and members (many airline union leaders/members are also members of our organization), and govt agencies. Our contact list also continues to grow.