Pentagon Lawn Images, Chronological order Options

[SwingDangler]

The "nomadic debris", post collapse... (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/huh.gif)

http://img189.imageshack.us/img189/8757/fo...areawidevip.png

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/4567/fo...reawidevip1.png

http://img593.imageshack.us/img593/6972/fo...reawidevip2.png

http://img33.imageshack.us/img33/6972/foia...reawidevip3.png

Is it me or are those 'firefighters' carrying something as a team in their right hands in one pic and then in the subsequent pics, they are not carrying it? It looks like a long piece of metal or something that they dropped.
I also notice a distinct lack of running anywhere as if in a hurry which is odd in my unprofessional firefighter behavior analysis. The set of pics reminds me of the infamous JFK tramp pics as Ed Lansdale walks by the Dall-ass cops.

This post has been edited by SwingDangler: Mar 15 2011, 09:27 PM

[onesliceshort]

Sir, if you could do the time line events using those helipad pictures and displaying how the debris field 'evolved' over time, I would certainly appreciate it as part of a lesson plane. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/handsdown.gif)

Hi SD!

I started off on a roll with the Southern area of the lawn towards the heliport and am now finding it very difficult with the northern area (timelines, consecutive shots, hi-res etc) and have been trawling other forums, blogs and newsreels.

I'm just working on the trailer, spools and "impact zone" (been sidetracked with some interesting leads from the posters here), then I'll be back on track to do the heliport. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

[onesliceshort]

Shots of facade, generator trailer and spools in chronological order from allegedly within 3 minutes to 20 mins:

Steve Riskus

http://criticalthrash.com/terror/P1010015.JPG

http://criticalthrash.com/terror/P1010016.JPG

http://criticalthrash.com/terror/P1010017.JPG

Daryl Donley

Allegedly within 3-4 minutes ("second fireball")

http://img801.imageshack.us/img801/4812/donleyfireball.jpg

Captioned "AT 09:50 A.M. ON SEPTEMBER 11, 2001, THE CREW OF TRUCK 105 ARRIVED AT THE PENTAGON"

(IMG:http://img145.imageshack.us/img145/6043/donleyfirstresponse.jpg)

EDIT: Not an Ingersol shot but actually one of Daryl Donley's
This guy claims to have over 30 hi res shots which he won't sell.
Gannett (owners of USAToday) bought the images and still hasn't released them. Bastards.

http://www.asile.org/citoyens/numero13/pen...te-hte-def2.jpg

(IMG:http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/2080/spool2.jpg)


Geoff Metcalf

http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/2.jpg

http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/3.jpg

http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/6.jpg

http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/8.jpg

Random shots collected:

http://i54.tinypic.com/6hkbo8.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/iz7uic.jpg

http://img8.imageshack.us/i/pentfacadeprecollapse.jpg/

(Above image to the far right of the composite is actually postcollapse - columns 18 and 19)

EDIT: Below image details:

EXIF DATA

Cedric H. Rudisill.

FBI agents, fire fighters, rescue workers and engineers work at the Pentagon crash site on Sept. 14, 2001, where a high-jacked American Airlines flight slammed into the building on Sept. 11. The terrorist attack caused extensive damage to the west face of the building and followed similar attacks on the twin towers of the World Trade Center in New York City. DoD photo by Tech.Sgt. Cedric H. Rudisill. (Released)

http://www.defense.gov/DODCMSShare/NewsPho...F-8006R-002.jpg



http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e207/Mer...atorTrailer.jpg

(IMG:http://img848.imageshack.us/img848/7857/trailer.jpg)


Still digging...collection of 750kw generators circa 2001:

http://www.uspowerco.com/used/750kw-750kw/...esel-generators

This post has been edited by onesliceshort: Mar 22 2011, 11:37 PM

[onesliceshort]

Can anybody work out the exact placement of the alleged "N debris" using perspective?

(IMG:http://img862.imageshack.us/img862/5720/ndebriscomposite1.jpg)

I believe the red truck is stationary. Image "4" (bad though it is), doesn't show this piece, unless somebody is standing in front of it. I'd just like to pinpoint its position to make sure.

Another few random angles:

(IMG:http://img12.imageshack.us/img12/8429/ndebriscomposite2.png)

[kawika]

I think we agree the forklift was in the impact area. It doesn't make any sense it was tumbled before the impact, so it was tumbled either by the impact, before the collapse or by the collapse itself.

They obviously dragged/pushed it from the south of the heliport to the north, gathering the fence along with it. Then they righted it for the photo showing the Titan truck being lifted.

I am going to speculate that the fork truck was parked near the trailers. How it survived any scorching is a fair question. How it survived a wing impact is a fair question.

Education/Entertainment---See this truck carrying a propane tank video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7RNYw11XHM...feature=related


I don't think they explode very easily. They are equipped with safety pop-off valves that would appear, once ignited, as a blowtorch. No explosion.

However, we also know there are several cages containing welding cylinders, clearly ablaze and firefighters not attempting to douse them. They too, have safety valves.

I am going to contact the Arlington County Fire Department and ask about the cylinders.

[dMz]

Education/Entertainment---See this truck carrying a propane tank video here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p7RNYw11XHM...feature=related

I don't think they explode very easily. They are equipped with safety pop-off valves that would appear, once ignited, as a blowtorch. No explosion.

However, we also know there are several cages containing welding cylinders, clearly ablaze and firefighters not attempting to douse them. They too, have safety valves.

It is 'rumored' that red GI P/Mg (or probably green 'ChiCom' Ba as well) incendiary/tracer rounds will 'fill the bill' in that department... (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

Here is an interesting photo to keep in mind in this [propane tank + heat] context:
(IMG:http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4065/4532261546_afc4ec32e2_o.jpg)

http://www.flickr.com/photos/chadwise/4532261546/

Pro...PAIN

There was an old propane tank in a burned down shack I found. I'm sure a propane tank inside the house didn't make things better when that fire got going.

EDIT: Also, I don't think many of the compressed gas cylinders that I've ever seen have ANY kind of safety valve. If the primary shutoff valve gets broken/damaged, you've either got a flammable leak or a torpedo/missile on your hands (that's what the heavy threaded steel caps, steel chains, safety training/procedures/protocol, and vertical storage/transport are used to prevent).

http://ehs.okstate.edu/modules/cylinder/theone.htm
http://ehs.okstate.edu/modules/cylinder/Theone_story.htm

Also from the MSDS for acetylene 'torch' gas:

SECTION 5. FIRE FIGHTING MEASURES

FLASH POINT: AUTOIGNITION: FLAMMABLE RANGE:

Not applicable 581° F (305° C) 2.5% - 81%

EXTINGUISHING MEDIA: Carbon Dioxide, Dry Chemical, Water.

SPECIAL FIRE FIGHTING INSTRUCTIONS: Shut off source of acetylene if possible. Extinguish fire only if flow can be stopped. Keep adjacent cylinders cool by spraying large amounts of water until the fire burns itself out and the cylinders are cool. If a flame is extinguished and acetylene continues to escape, an explosive re-ignition could occur.

UNUSUAL FIRE AND EXPLOSION HAZARDS: Excessive heat or fire will cause fusible metal pressure relief device to melt allowing acetylene to escape. Cylinders may rupture violently if sidewalls are exposed to direct flame impingement.

HAZARDOUS COMBUSTION PRODUCTS: Carbon monoxide, carbon dioxide.

SECTION 6. ACCIDENTAL RELEASE MEASURES

STEPS TO BE TAKEN IF MATERIAL IS RELEASED OR SPILLED: Evacuate immediate area. Eliminate any possible sources of ignition, and provide maximum explosion-proof ventilation. Shut off source of acetylene, if possible. Isolate any leaking cylinder. If leaking from cylinder, valve, or fusible metal pressure relief device, contact your supplier.

SECTION 7. HANDLING AND STORAGE

STORAGE: Store and use with adequate ventilation. Cylinders should be separated from oxygen and other oxidizers by a minimum distance of 20 ft. or by a barricade of non-combustible material at least 5 ft. high having a fire resistance rating of at least � hour. Storage in excess of 2,500 cubic feet. is prohibited in buildings with other occupancies. Cylinders should be stored upright with valve protection cap in place and firmly secured to prevent falling or being knocked over. Post "No Smoking Or Open Flames" signs in the storage or use areas. There should be no sources of ignition. All electrical equipment should be explosion-proof in the storage areas. Storage areas must meet National Electric Codes for class 1

hazardous areas. Do not allow storage temperature to exceed 125 ° F(52 ° C). Full and empty cylinders should be segregated. Use a first-in, first-out inventory system to prevent full containers from being stored for a long periods of time.

HANDLING: Protect cylinders from physical damage; do not drag, roll, slide, or drop. Use a suitable hand truck for cylinder movement. All acetylene piped systems and associated equipment must be grounded. Electrical equipment should be non-sparking or explosion-proof. Never use copper piping for acetylene service, only steel or wrought iron pipe should be used. An acetylene cylinder valve should be opened the minimum amount required to deliver acceptable flow so that it can be closed as quickly as possible in an emergency situation. Do not open acetylene cylinder valves more than one and one-half turns. Never use acetylene in excess of 15 psig pressure. Acetylene cylinders are heavier than other cylinders because they are packed with a porous filler material and acetone. Leak check with soapy water; never use a flame. Never insert an object (e.g., wrench, screwdriver, pry bar, etc.) into valve cap openings. Doing so may damage valve, causing a leak to occur. Use an adjustable strap wrench to remove over-tight or rusted caps. Never strike an arc on a compressed gas cylinder or make a cylinder a part of an electrical circuit. Use the proper CGA connections, DO NOT USE ADAPTERS.

SPECIAL PRECAUTIONS: Use piping and equipment adequately designed to withstand pressures to be encountered. Use a check valve or other protective apparatus in any line or piping from the cylinder to prevent reverse flow.

SECTION 8. EXPOSURE CONTROLS/PERSONAL PROTECTION

ENGINEERING CONTROLS:

VENTILATION: Provide adequate natural or explosion-proof ventilation to ensure acetylene does not reach its lower flammable limit of 2.5%.

RESPIRATORY PROTECTION:

Emergency Use: Air supplied respirators are required in oxygen-deficient atmospheres (air purifying respirators will not function). Before entering area you must check for flammable or oxygen deficient atmospheres.

SKIN PROTECTION: Work gloves are recommended when handling cylinders.

EYE PROTECTION: Safety glasses are recommended when handling cylinders.

OTHER PROTECTIVE EQUIPMENT: Safety shoes recommended when handling containers.

http://grover.mirc.gatech.edu/data/msds/26.html

I do believe that most of the newer propane tanks do have an overpressure relief valve though (NOT necessarily true of 'old' tanks however). BTW- that image of the burned tank looks like a "new" (post ~ 1990-ish IIRC) one with the pressure relief system to me, and I'm not certain how/what caused the observed leak at the blue flame near the bottom of the tank in that photo.

http://www.propane101.com/safetyreliefvalve.htm
http://www.everything-about-rving.com/the-...s-gone-bad.html

Here is a MSDS sheet for propane (also a common 'torch' and forklift fuel):
http://www.clearwaterpower.com/content/WYS...PropaneMSDS.pdf

EDIT2: Re-reading that MSDS for EXPLOSIVE acetylene gas- the primary valves are made of/with a "fusible" 'pot metal' alloy that apparently will melt and/or rupture if exposed to excessive heat and/or pressure (although I've never seen it happen before- THANK GOD and KNOCK WOOD!).

Reason for edit: Added compressed gas info.

[onesliceshort]

And compare that to the immediate inferno allegedly erupting in the generator trailer.
I've searched for safety features on these monsters and so far have just found non specific details about the much smaller generators.

http://www.diesel-generator-engine.com/Safety-Measures.html

Anyone operating a diesel generator engine should know about its working and safety measures. Diesel generators are functioned for long hours and require basic maintenance. These engines are cooled by water and are sturdier than other applications on market. A diesel powered generator uses direct fuel injection so is not concerned about igniting fires. Storage of diesel is simple as it is the least flammable fuel. The storage life of diesel is longer than other fuels. Diesel is available at all gas stations and is protected in a can. Safety precautions for a diesel generator engine are no different than other engines operated

Not quite the same scale but I'd like to find how likely it is that a diesel powered generator can ignite through "impact" or friction. What could have possibly "ignited" the diesel. Especially when no flame was involved.

am going to speculate that the fork truck was parked near the trailers. How it survived any scorching is a fair question. How it survived a wing impact is a fair question.

I disagree Kawika.
I believe it was in that original position in front of the facade, caught on those very early images.
Nor do I believe that a plane "impacted" or caused any of that damage.

This post has been edited by onesliceshort: Mar 16 2011, 05:01 PM

[IslandPilot]

Anybody know the name of the photographer in white, far left?

PHOTOG

He'd be in a good position to capture the fine details.

I just noticed that also! But LOOK AT THE Pentagon Wall above and to the right side of him.... between the windows...

It looks to me like the mansonry from that section has been BLASTED away from the building, with many pieces of it getting caught up into the cyclone chain link fence.

Whatever made that mess, was coming "OUT" from the building, not going "INTO" the building, IMO!

[kawika]

I disagree Kawika.
I believe it was in that original position in front of the facade, caught on those very early images.
Nor do I believe that a plane "impacted" or caused any of that damage.

Clarification, please. In that original position... You mean laying down?

Or do you mean standing up and south of the autos? If so, I agree, wholeheartedly.

My point is that a wing DID NOT impact the forklift, thus no plane came through there. Neither did a wing catch the autos, as it should have. Neither did it catch the fence as it should have. Three very logical reasons why no plane went in there.

Can we draw any conclusions about the side it lays on? If forks faced the wall before tipping, the tip force must have come from the south.

If forks faced the lawn, then the lift would have to be spun around and tipped over to accomplish a left side down position.

Or it could have tipped first, then spun while down.

This area was paved, asphalt, I believe, not grassy. This lift has small, smooth surface type tires on it. Not designed for dirt or rough terrain.

Oh, I know. The forklift flew in there, punctured some propane, acetylene and oxygen tanks, ruptured the diesel generator and tumbled in and out of the first floor breaking off the forest of reinforced concrete columns, exited the building, laid down for a nap and very nearly missed being covered by the falling debris. How's that for a conspiracy theory? The MEGA TOP SECRET, Nuclear Powered Combination Nissan Fork Truck/F18 Stealth Super Weapon. (Sorry. Moderators please excuse this outburst)

In this photo we can get an idea how they cleared the area and probably how the forklift got fencing all bunched around it. Mr. Front End Loader--- right under the Springfield crane.

http://www.defense.gov/DODCMSShare/NewsPho...F-8006R-002.jpg

[IslandPilot]

Now for the spools and trailer...

(IMG:http://img850.imageshack.us/img850/5807/spool1marked.jpg)

http://i.imgur.com/CZ3hx.jpg

They are over 2m high.
<snip>

That picture and this one really make me mad!
(IMG:http://i.imgur.com/DKDFm.jpg) Crooks returned to the scene of the crime??
Above that green tarp is where the Right Wing alledgedly impacted the Pentagon wall.


I don't like these either:
(IMG:http://i.imgur.com/iQCIg.jpg) What "airplane" part made the "horse shoe" impression up there, and then Bounced Back??? Shouldn't it be in front of the Pentagon somewhere?

"Better" view of RIGHT WING IMPACT area between first and second floors.
"Yup, that ole wing just folded up and "followed" the rest of the "airplane" right into the building, without leaving a SCRATCH, or a few peices of aluminum, on the COLUMN there. And, the HUMONGOUS RIGHT engine just "vaporized" somewhere between that cable reel and the Pentacon wall". BULLSHIT!
(IMG:http://i.imgur.com/CZ3hx.jpg)

Where's the airplane in the next pic? What's that on the roof, in the middle of this pic.... Looks like a security camera to me. Notice also the cable reel.
(IMG:http://i.imgur.com/pUK2i.jpg)

Where's the friggn Boeing 757? If the "right wing" hit the building just above the fire truck, and the "left wing" went "into the building" to the right of the "station wagon"; where are the ENGINE PARTS that would have "IMPACTED" the GROUND in front of the BUILDING?? And what part of the plane made that "horse shoe" mark at the top RH side of the Building, which obviously bounced off of it. Where the heck is that PART. I don't see a single "Airplane" or "Human Body" part in this picture. So how come is there another CAMERAMAN!... carrying a video TV camera in this pic?
(IMG:http://i.imgur.com/qfunM.jpg)

Then look at this pic: Cable reels with "wing marks" above them on the first floor. Why are the horizontal beams connected to the building on the right side, while there is NO EVIDENCE that they were EVER connected on to the LEFT side? And there is NO FIRE damage to wooden stool, computer monitors, and office equipment on the left side?? The window frames have been "blown out"... away from the columns and beams. And what happend to all the reinforced concrete connections between the outer columns and the horizontal beams.... where the reinforcing rods are still there, some of them are "SPLAYED" apart, and some of the inter-floor columns are still "hanging" by the reinforcing rods. How does that happen?

OSS, have a look at the "immaculate" cable reels and the "wing impact marks" just above them. Where's the ENGINE??

I've had enough of this for today.... It's starting to get to me... I need a break...
PLEASE YOU GUYS.... do everything you can to "SECURE" the info from that "imgur" site;
"imgur" HI RES Pentagon Pictures make sure to click on the "Full Image" option in the upper RH corner. WOW!

[onesliceshort]

Clarification, please. In that original position... You mean laying down?

Or do you mean standing up and south of the autos? If so, I agree, wholeheartedly.

Exactly. It was there when the explosion occurred and was knocked over. Away from the facade. Precollapse.
And that it appears to have been facing north (?)

(IMG:http://img718.imageshack.us/img718/1374/forklift2.png)

(IMG:http://img132.imageshack.us/img132/2159/forklift3w.png)

(IMG:http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/8508/forklift.jpg)

Oh, I know. The forklift flew in there, punctured some propane, acetylene and oxygen tanks, ruptured the diesel generator and tumbled in and out of the first floor breaking off the forest of reinforced concrete columns, exited the building, laid down for a nap and very nearly missed being covered by the falling debris. How's that for a conspiracy theory? The MEGA TOP SECRET, Nuclear Powered Combination Nissan Fork Truck/F18 Stealth Super Weapon. (Sorry. Moderators please excuse this outburst)

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

http://www.defense.gov/DODCMSShare/NewsPho...F-8006R-002.jpg

I'm working on something at the minute with this image that should bring all of this together.

[onesliceshort]

http://i.imgur.com/CZ3hx.jpg

Hi Islandpilot,

Yeah, that image is pushed regularly and labelled "wing impact", but the lack of damage to a number of obstacles to the left of the alleged trajectory don't add up. The cars, the fact that the left engine would have been ploughed into the undamaged foundation, etc.

Here are those same columns precollapse:

(IMG:http://www.kolumbus.fi/sy-k/pentagon/p18.jpg)
Source

http://i.imgur.com/iQCIg.jpg

What "airplane" part made the "horse shoe"

I believe that was caused by the high pressure hoses.

[IslandPilot]

OSS: More pics of Forklift, on its side, after collapse

(IMG:http://i.imgur.com/WRBEe.jpg)
Link for above:Forklift behind Red fire truck after collapse

Forklift in front of Red Fire truck after collapse

Forklift on it's side, after collapse, behind concret block, left center of photo.

This is an interesting photo; It looks like the generator is "aimed" at the building:
(IMG:http://imgur.com/XEo79.jpg)

Has anyone seen this "Light pole" photo before?
Pentagon light pole

I hope this helps.
My summary of "events" after looking through a whole bunch of pictures today:

1) It appears to me that the initial fire along the facade of the building had been mostly extinguished prior to the "collapse".

2) Then maybe something "exploded" (generator???) in front of; and maybe "inside" the building... to ignite the "orange" flames and mostly black smoke...

3) Then there must have been an "explosion" of some kind to "cause" collapse...

4) The "debris field" in front of the helipad area then "appears" after the "collapse". This "debris field" is obviously the result of "something" blowing that stuff OUT and AWAY from the building.... with much of it being distributed well to the NORTH of the alledged "impact" area.

5) "Simulated" aircraft style "junk" parts don't seem to "appear" until well AFTER THE COLLAPSE; AFTER ALL FIRES seem to have been EXTINGUISHED!!

These "parts" may have been placed inside the building; or somewhere else.... to be "ejected" into the debris field along with the "window blind" material. The half-dozen larger pieces of "simulated" airplane junk don't seem to have been "burned" or heated; but they are all small enough to be "hand carried" and scattered around. I'm thinking they could have came from a vehicle, or the "garage" area on the North side of the Heliport tower.

That's how it looks to me at this time. What do you guys think?

[IslandPilot]

OSS said:

Oh, I know. The forklift flew in there, punctured some propane, acetylene and oxygen tanks, ruptured the diesel generator and tumbled in and out of the first floor breaking off the forest of reinforced concrete columns, exited the building, laid down for a nap and very nearly missed being covered by the falling debris. How's that for a conspiracy theory? The MEGA TOP SECRET, Nuclear Powered Combination Nissan Fork Truck/F18 Stealth Super Weapon. (Sorry. Moderators please excuse this outburst)

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/cheers.gif)
I'll "second" that emotion! (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/worthy.gif)
As a "Conspiracy Theory" it's a whole lot better than the OCT, Hands DOWN! (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/handsdown.gif)
Your "FFTT" (Flying Forklift Truck Theory) is way more "believable" than one involving "TERRORISTS"; a Boeing 757; and dozens of "PASSENGERS"; that "evaporated" into thin air without a trace. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/bullshit.gif)

Your FFTT doesn't bother with "complications", that have NO SUPPORTING evidence. I CAN BELIEVE in the FFTT because I can SEE the FRIGGIN FORKLIFT! How it flies, I dunno and I don't care, cause it's really TOP SECRET shit! And if you TOLD me how that works, then someone would have to KILL ME?
(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/salute.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)
It's way past my bedtime; Goodnight. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/yawn.gif)

[IslandPilot]

Hi Islandpilot,

Yeah, that image is pushed regularly and labelled "wing impact", but the lack of damage to a number of obstacles to the left of the alleged trajectory don't add up. The cars, the fact that the left engine would have been ploughed into the undamaged foundation, etc.

Here are those same columns precollapse:

(IMG:http://www.kolumbus.fi/sy-k/pentagon/p18.jpg)
Source



I believe that was caused by the high pressure hoses.

WHOA! OSS LOOK AT THAT! Take another look at those pictures!

Yes! I agree that both of those pictures are DEFINATELY of the same area.... but; the one on the LEFT is PRIOR to the collapse, and the one on the right with the "wing impact" marks is AFTER the COLLAPSE!

BUT LOOK! The "pre-collapse" photo DOESN'T have ANY WING IMPACT MARK on column #18! DUH!? So the WHOLE RIGHT WING of the AIRPLANE "DISAPPEARED" into the Pentagon, below the first floor, without making a SINGLE MARK on column #18 or the floor beam it is supporting on its Left side!

WTF??? Please notice also... and I've seen other pics of this before... the "pre-collapse photo" on the left shows a "bent" and "broken" steel beam in FRONT of the concrete 2nd floor between the beams.

That steel BEAM is "MISSING" in the "Post Collapse" photo on the RIGHT! Did it get "BLOWN" away from the building, when the collapse occurred?? Notice that the "right" side of that beam in the Left photo is hanging DOWN in front of the Column #19 in the RH Picture. What caused that??

Then look at the "difference" between column #18 in both pictures. On the left side it's firmly attached to the floor above.... and the "airplane" is gone, "inside" the rest of the building. So now, if the building merely "collapses" after that..... WHAT FORCE "removed" all that concrete from between those reinforcing rods at the top of column #18; and also "shoved" it OUTWARD and to the RIGHT of its former position???

I've seen several other pictures, taken AFTER the one on the LEFT... where columns 18 and 19 are LEANING quite a bit to the LEFT... just PRIOR to the Collapse... I'm thinking.... I'll look for those tomorrow...

BTW: What high pressure hoses?? (from the Forklift??) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

[dMz]

Moved & merged 5 generator-specific posts to this thread split from some earlier work:

The Penren Generator?, split & merged threads
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=21192

It has deserved its own thread for a long time, but now we might need to move a few more items or repost on that thread. (I just lost my generator post due to an errant Google translation click before splitting that thread- grrr...).

[onesliceshort]

BTW: What high pressure hoses?? (from the Forklift??)

The firefighters.

http://i.imgur.com/9JLx0.jpg

Aah! Nicely spotted IP.

(IMG:http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/1544/forklift4marked.png)

[kawika]

The firefighters.



Aah! Nicely spotted IP.

(IMG:http://img25.imageshack.us/img25/1544/forklift4marked.png)

Excellent find.

This seems to confirm the observation that it was facing northerly before the collapse.

Now we need to find one before the collapse to see if the forktruck is standing.

FOUND, but I don't know how to make it large in here. Here's the link for someone who can paste it properly for us:

http://911review.org/Wget/investigate911.b.../pentagon1.html

Third picture down.

This post has been edited by kawika: Mar 17 2011, 06:23 PM

[onesliceshort]

IslandPilot, my problem with the "wing impact" image is this.

It's at a height of @15-16 ft (according to ASCE report diagrams:

(IMG:http://i54.tinypic.com/htcri0.jpg)

The same report and the alleged damage to the trailer show that it had to "hit" in a tilt and at an angle.

(IMG:http://img713.imageshack.us/img713/9090/757tilt.jpg)

(IMG:http://img822.imageshack.us/img822/954/ascesatellitegraphicwit.jpg)

(the above ASCE graphic is actually wrong because the nose would have struck the generator..)

Even at a 7º tilt ( I have to work out the exact tilt angle necessary to make that "wing impact" possible but that's a guesstimate) the tip of the wing is at a height of 15ft.

(IMG:http://img195.imageshack.us/img195/9073/757wingspan7.png)

Even in level flight the wingtips are @7ft above the base of the fuselage. (M - D)

(IMG:http://img19.imageshack.us/img19/130/757dimensions.jpg)

and the aircraft wing has to clear an 8ft obstacle (the trailer)....

http://img850.imageshack.us/i/generatorfacadehires.jpg

..before squeezing fully into the first floor (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

To sum up, for that damage to be consistent with an "impact", the aircraft fuselage would have to be
inches above the groundwith the engines burrowed into the ground. And level. No tilt.

Didn't and couldn't happen.

This post has been edited by onesliceshort: Mar 17 2011, 06:30 PM

[onesliceshort]

Excellent find.

This seems to confirm the observation that it was facing northerly before the collapse.

Now we need to find one before the collapse to see if the forktruck is standing.

FOUND, but I don't know how to make it large in here. Here's the link for someone who can paste it properly for us:

http://911review.org/Wget/investigate911.b.../pentagon1.html

Third picture down.

Hi Kawika,

Yeah see these shots from an earlier post. The first was allegedly taken within a few minutes from the explosion, the second within 20 minutes (hi res version of the image in that link)

http://criticalthrash.com/terror/P1010015.JPG

http://www.dodmedia.osd.mil/Assets/Still/2...D-02-03886.JPEG

Composite:

http://img718.imageshack.us/i/forklift2.png/