The Pentagon Attack Arguments List : Fly-over, Or Head-on Impact?, Just two options left : NoC fly-over, or NoC 90° impact. Options

[LaBTop]

Before you try to click my A.T.S links, you know by now that the list of declared enemies by the software handler(s) is again broadened.
You now have to change www.atsadgrab.com by www.ab_ovet_opse_cret.com (you surely understand that you must not type the underscores, kids. Hehhe..)

I know of the years of constant irritations which have been going on at multiple websites regarding your and your opponents constant bickering and name-calling, and that's really a pity. But show at least your wisdom, do not make your own forum, loaded with expertise, so unreadable and seemingly immature, that it will cost you valued members and possible worthy new members (who will click the site away, thinking that this is a playground for a bunch of high-school kids.)
You probably also don't want to have direct clickable hot-links to "enemy-sites" in your threads? So we have to painstakingly re-enter those real names in our browser all the time? I don't think you annoy them with that at all, but your membership for sure.
__________________________________________________

This is what you want to read if you got interested in my seismic proof that WTC 7 was demolished, and how :
WTC 7's compartmented demolition collapse sequence reveals human intervention.
http://www.atsadgrab.com/forum/thread612056/pg1 (12 pages)


CIT publishes response to David Chandler & Jonathan Cole's Joint Statement about the 9/11 Pentagon Attack. Posted Tuesday, Feb 3, 2011.
http://www.citizeninvestigationteam.com/ne...ndler-cole.html


And this is the very long (68 pages) thread called :
Absolute proof: A Pentagon picture montage from start to finish.
Where you luckily can start at the bottom of page 50, to read on to the bottom of page 52, to see my argumentation unfold with Jthomas and Alfie1, about Roosevelt Roberts and what exactly he really explained in his first interview with the Center for Military History (CMH) group and later to the CIT crew in two telephone interviews, :
http://www.atsadgrab.com/forum/thread541460/pg50

I think a lot of you will find that debate quite revealing. And to really try to understand Roberts his somewhat difficult way with words, you have to listen to all his three interviews!

Here is Alfie1 in page 51 bringing some good points to the plate :
http://www.atsadgrab.com/forum/thread...pg51#pid8408036
at which point a few posts later, I start to express my doubts about Roberts as being a fly-over witness, but still not based on solid understanding of his words in 3 interviews :
http://www.atsadgrab.com/forum/thread...pg51#pid8408464
And this is my posts and the next one, where I admit that I have more faith in a NoC 90° angle impact, than in the officially endorsed 60.25° to 61.5° true north, SoC impact :
http://www.atsadgrab.com/forum/thread...pg52#pid8418645
And not much faith at that end of discussion, in a fly-over.
The rest of those pages has also a lot of good further info regarding an eventual fly-over, or an impact.

Perhaps Craig and Aldo can bring more new fly-over info to the plate?
Aldo already discovered lately the Italian member Tuttle his report of Steve Riskus who was interviewed by Tuttle per email and telephone and Steve showed that the plane he saw crossed over Route 27 just behind the Heliport concrete landing pad, and Steve saw it then impact.
Aldo posted about it in this thread here :
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=21014

This is Steve Riskus flight path drawing on another map, with some wrongly placed witness names:

(IMG:http://bp2.blogger.com/_Zac9O--QXJI/SG_Yofo0BuI/AAAAAAAAACA/aiFQXvrAt48/s1600-h/pentagon2-1.jpg)
(AHA, on top of the annoying altering of website names, I suddenly can't post images anymore. The [img] tags don't work anymore.
Is this a bug, or...worse?

There's only one image in this post, this one, so I can't be punished for excessive posting of images, see all the working posts above. Or can that be? Really?
Let's be reasonable and blame it on a "bug"..."critter", whatever.)

The red line should be drawn about twenty real meters to the south, to fit in with all reliable witnesses who gave enough information to pinpoint them under or near the crossing plane on this map. The plane has crossed where it would then fly over a center line between the border of the concrete heliport plate, and the short piece of fence where the diesel generator stood, which is the purple container drawn in there.

The person who placed all these witness names on this map, has at least mis-placed Vin Narayanan and Don Mason, who must be replaced about 20 meter in front/south of the original red line, and that was the real crossing-Route 27 point where they sat in their cars under the crossing belly of the plane, while Penny Elgas must be replaced about 4 cars south/back of those two.
Frank Probst must be replaced nearer/northernly to Tree One, because he was near the Heliport when he saw the plane "diving" straight towards him.

All the other names I have not concentrated on lately, so that's a next task.

[KP50]

Hi LaBTop,

I tried to amend your post to include that image but it didn't work even tough the image is there when I go to it directly. I don't have time to work it out right now, have to go to work.

I believe your inability to edit is due to the low number of posts you have, we had problems with troublemakers changing their words after the fact. The changing of certain words that you have noticed is also linked to similar troublemakers spamming threads & information.

KP

[rob balsamo]

Not sure why the image wont post. It may be due to the lengthy url. Try saving it to your hard drive, then upload it to a host like photobucket. It should work then.

As far as changing url's to certain sites, they are changed by our bad word filter as some of those sites contain malware, especially ATS. Others we just do not wish to give their disinformation any publicity. But if you prefer to have the link posted here, just wrap it in code tags. [code][/code]

[Aldo Marquis CIT]

I am not sure how many times we have to tell you Labtop. The plane could not and did not hit the Pentagon. A plane on the north side flight path cannot hit the light poles or cause the internal/external damage, cannot show up low and level as seen in the gate cam frames, and cannot match the FDR data.

The plane pulled up and flew over:
(IMG:http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/lytetrip/Pentagon/gifs/robertpullup.gif)

[LaBTop]

I am not sure how many times we have to tell you Labtop. The plane could not and did not hit the Pentagon. A plane on the north side flight path cannot hit the light poles or cause the internal/external damage, cannot show up low and level as seen in the gate cam frames, and cannot match the FDR data.

The plane pulled up and flew over:
(IMG:http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/lytetrip/Pentagon/gifs/robertpullup.gif)

You are obviously for years now already, caught up in an endless loop of severe 'logical fallacy' arguments. And you proved it again to me with your above words.
Try to understand the logic in my next words, answering your 4 arguments :

Aldo : I am not sure how many times we have to tell you LaBTop.
(1) The plane could not and did not hit the Pentagon.
LT : It could easily, especially since it flew much slower than they want us to let believe with FALSE radar data and an also FALSE FDR. I believe the witnesses, who describe much slower speeds.
(2a) A plane on the north side flight path cannot hit the light poles or
LT : Those 5 poles were also FALSE flags. That plane never hit them.
(2b) cause the internal/external damage,
LT : Yep, not most of it, but it did cause the 90° angle damage, and no more.
The much longer rest of the damage inside, to the left of the expansion joint, was done by explosions and is also FALSE.
(3) cannot show up low and level as seen in the gate cam frames,
LT: Huh? Those 2 gate cam videos were proven also FALSE, long ago. You believe them again?
(4) and cannot match the FDR data.
LT : that FDR is just proven also FALSE, by the Pilots and Dennis Cimino, a FDR specialist.
The only problem I see with Dennis, he probably only saw the CVS files from Warren Stutt, and Warren left out a load of data and data descriptions, also the ones Dennis complained about as missing. Warren just had not included them.
That's why Dennis should decode the raw data file from that FDR, with real AA software.
(5) The plane pulled up and flew over:""
LT : see my rebuttal a bit lower. (End of Aldo's words and my short rebuttals.)


A more detailed explanation.
(1). That plane COULD hit the Pentagon. No problem.
Read my posts #1 to #6. Better, re-read all my posts and links up to this one, a few times. Note especially my altered big drawing out of the ASCE report, where I superimposed an, on-scale with that drawing, 757-200, which wingtips exactly covers the space between all the red, severed columns, and its nose-cone hits between column 13 and 14 under an 90° angle. And stops near the second wall, the E-ring internal wall. Its fuselage totally crumbled.

(2a). A NoC plane of course could NOT hit any of those STAGED five downed light poles.
They were faked as seemingly downed by a FALSE SoC plane, which YOU and CRAIG themselves proved being FALSE, by giving us all the NoC witness videos.

(2b). And because the simple fact of a NoC flying plane, impacting under a 90° angle, does in fact negate that a NoC plane could ever cause the greatest part (the bulk) of the internal damage, specifically NOT the northernly/to-the-left stretched out internal part, up to the FAKE "exit" hole at C-ring, means however that it could, and DID cause ONLY the damage field covering the space leading from the expansion joint from where the building started to collapsed at 19 minutes after impact, towards the right/south last severed column.
And did thus also cause the external damage like the imprints on the wall. And the plane's body fits easily in that 14 foot hole we saw on the first photos. The rest of the damage was then made by wings and engines. Remember, there is no PUBLIC footage from the cleaning operation in the collapsed wedge 1, during the first month, until the engineers from the ASCE team were allowed on-site on 3 October ! And look how perfectly the right wing root part fits to the same angle of damage in front of that wing root, drawn inside that later collapsed part.

(3) Ahem, those gate cam frames are proved to be FAKE a long time ago, and now you bring them back up as being genuine? For the sake of your argument? Those frames are all FAKE.

(4) Ahem, Dennis Cimino, Rob Balsamo and colleagues, just proved to me and everyone else, that the FDR send to the FOIA applicant is blatantly FALSE. So why, again for the sake of your argument, do you pull that FDR up as proof that the plane could not impact?
I have tried to help you with your 13 NoC witnesses, by pulling at least 5 more obvious NoC witnesses out of the SoC woodwork, where they were put in by the media and Trusters.
WHY searching for those new witnesses?
Because the FDR is blatantly false, thus we are back at WITNESS reports.
And in my opinion, the witness reports published from the day itself, or shortly after, are the most reliable in the eyes of the public, and also for a possible court case, with judge and jury.
Those early interviews were followed by interviews even years later of the same witnesses, who give then some more details, from which we can conclude that they are NoC witnesses.

(5). You used a short video of Robert Turcios.
He stood under the southern canopy of the CITGO gas station when he heard and saw the plane, coming down along a slightly downwards flight path, from above the Annex (a 30 meters high building standing on a 70 meters/yards high hill above the Pentagon basin) towards Route 27 with all its road signs and light poles.
So it went from 110 meters high, downwards to about 40 meters height, then leveled off to fly over the light poles and road sign near the Heliport, without hitting them.

Of course it had to pull up a little, about 100 meters before Route 27, to not drill itself into the grass in front of Route 27. And that is what Robert saw happening, a plane leveling off, out of a swallow dive. Since he stood behind it when it did that, he had a perfect view to see that leveling as a dipping of the plane's tail and tail fins. Don't forget, the plane was at least still 200 feet/60 meters above him, so he looked at it from under it. And then it looks much more eventually, as an ascending move, which it was not. But that is what he tries to express with his left hand.

Btw, he stood near the newspaper stand on the southern ground of the CITGO, and had the highest part of the heightened embankment in front of him, which has blocked his view of the impact.
In your video part above, he stands on the now grassy embankment, looking down on the road behind the CITGO. On the day of 9/11, that embankment was still sandy, since its construction was just finished there.
So it pulled up from a swallow dive, but it probably did not fly-over but impacted.
Which, in both cases, Robert could not have seen, because of the embankment blocking his view on the last few hundred meters/yards flight path.


We should better concentrate on the question, what logical reason there was to let that plane impact under about an 90° angle, while in the mean time have artificially downed light poles already laying down, and simultaneously with an impact, detonate a lot of charges to construct that strange damage path inside the Pentagon

[LaBTop]

I see that the Gate Crasher YouTube video I linked at in post #4,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ENfxqvKoIaE
is no longer available on YouTube, because the user has closed his account.
Nevertheless, this is the same one, from Discovery Networks, where you can see precisely, how the unit looks and works, and what imprint it leaves behind on a brick wall :

Future Weapons: Gate Crasher.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuSPi16MVUo...feature=related





Rapid Wall Breaching Kit (RWBK). (This is a very low-res video)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wptjeH7sO9c




9/11 Pentagon Exit Hole. (A lot of internal Pentagon damage photos too)
(By Terrorcell2 = Domenick DiMaggio, our local UAL93 investigator, read all intelligent comments at his YouTube account.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6dyhBew_ssU




Breaching a Cement Wall.
In this video, you can see for a few moments the PVC molded, flat formed 10 to 15 cm thick wall breaching unit, which is filled with a thick det-cord all around the edges in a molded-in inlay 10 cm from those edges, and then the inside of the unit is filled with water on the scene. That small body of water on top of the det-cord is a barrier that directs all the explosive power away from the water, thus forwards on the wall, which that unit is put up against.)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xHxrD2RBIbE...feature=related




PS : I also made a BB-code mistake in that post #4, here is the photo :

(IMG:http://files.abovetopsecret.com/images/member/f8d2a2e1f7f0.jpg)
C-ring rolling door smoke vent. Probably blasted out from the inside, reached through that small door to the left.

This post has been edited by LaBTop: Feb 17 2011, 02:50 AM

[rob balsamo]

LT : that FDR is just proven also FALSE, by the Pilots and Dennis Cimino, a FDR specialist.
The only problem I see with Dennis, he probably only saw the CVS files from Warren Stutt, and Warren left out a load of data and data descriptions, also the ones Dennis complained about as missing. Warren just had not included them.
That's why Dennis should decode the raw data file from that FDR, with real AA software.

There is no evidence linking the FDR data to N644AA, this is a very different statement than "Pilots and Dennis have proven the FDR data false".

Next, Dennis had the Raw file right after we got it and decoded it himself, but never made output files. We did an interview back in 2007 which is linked on the bottom of our latest article.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=20999

The FDR data could be very authentic, but it didn't come from any aircraft described by witnesses on 9/11, nor does it support an impact with the Pentagon. Again, there is no evidence linking the data with N644AA. Since the NTSB and 9/11 Commission claim the data is from N644AA, they have a real problem as there is no evidence linking the data to that aircraft, nor does it support their theory. I'm guessing this is why they have refused to comment to anyone.

[LaBTop]

Rob, since in my opening post and in the next ones I do base my whole reasoning on a strong believe in the by the CIT team unearthed North of CITGO flight path eyewitnesses, and the further witnesses I also believe are NoC eyewitnesses, instead of the years long disinformation and regarding the withholding of further NoC evidence for these new eyewitnesses, there is no doubt in my mind that the NTSB decoded FOIA requested FDR is at least partly falsified.

Your latest discussion of arguments brought up by Dennis Cimoni regarding the reasons why he believes that FDR is not a believable or normal one, has only fortified my opinion.
As I understand by now from the words of Dennis, that box is 35 times re-initiated, meaning that the electrical power to it was 35 times switched off, and later switched back on again during that "flight", which however is totally impossible. That can only happen during a workbench session in a decoding laboratory.

Firstly because such a re-initialization never happened before during any known normal flight, without such an event being addressed by the airline, manufacturer, NTSB and pilots organizations; and surely for this FDR from AA 77 because it should be mirrored in the CVS files and in the NTSB handed over animation of the whole AA 77 "flight". These however do not show signs of power off and on states.

I would really like to see someone show us where we can find those 35 times power off and on instances, in the raw data file, or anywhere else. Since I read all of Dennis' explanations to you and to Warren Stutt, for me its clear he is a professional FDR decoding technician, of which trade there will be not too many on this earth, so I feel greatly relieved that he is a member here.

Secondly, if that had truly happened, it would have been clearly shown in the NTSB animation of the FDR data, at every electrical power-off/on switch, by sudden shifts of height, roll, bank, pitch and a whole lot of readings on the meters. We should have seen a plane flying at f.ex. 3.500 feet in level flight, and the next instance see it fly at 2.800 feet, f.ex.in a nose dive. Instantaneously...And that 35 times during that "flight".
And Dennis seems to have another reason to firmly believe, that the data from that box is false, since there is no company, FLEET IDENT, and aircarrier, AC IDENT attached in the preamble of the FDR and CSV's. And perhaps a few more reasons.

Rob, just a question, do you see the logic, when you and Dennis show us irrefutable evidence of tampering with evidence by some official entity in the line of holders of that black-box FDR, that we may suppose that that makes that FDR a falsified one?
I of course do see too, that you have to be as careful as possible in your assumptions or opinion, will you ever have a chance to address all you have found in a truly free court. The International Court in the Hague comes to my mind.




As far as I have seen, the last 12 seconds of that NTSB "flight" path do not show a cross-over of the Navy Annex buildings, no north of CITGO flight path, flown in a slight right bank, no correction in front of Route 27 by a slight left bank switch, to be able to fly the plane all witnesses saw in a nearly level flight configuration over the other light poles along that stretch of Route 27 (which are NOT those falsely "downed" 5 poles 300 meter to the south, just after the underpass).

Warren Stutt wrote in the ""Aal77 Fdr Decoder Program"" thread, Post #198, the following :

Here's the text preamble in the .FDR file.

CODE

// L3 Communications, Aviation Recorders
VERSION = 1
SEGMENT = 1
TYPE = FULL
FIRSTBLOCK = 0
NUMBLOCKS = 192
LOOPBLOCKS = 192
CUR_INDEX = 28 19328 28 19072
;EOH

It was already also posted in June 04, 2007 here

CODE

http://911blogger.com/news/2007-06-05/pentagon-silver-bullet#comment-148785

by u2r2h at 911Blogger.com :
http://u2r2h-documents.blogspot.com/2007/0...r-download.html
With on top two additional lines :

American_77.fdr 25,165,994 bytes 6sep06
======= AMERICAN_77.FDR =========
// L3 Communications, Aviation Recorders
etcetera...

Is this the same data group that Dennis called the (text) preamble file and found absent from any (airline company) FLEET IDENT and (Air-Carrier) AC IDENT numbers, when he decoded that FDR with HIS software? Was that the "ROSE" software developed and used by AA itself?
Or did Dennis find a much broader group of identification data, not like the above short data list? As he said, he did not find any IDENT at all in the pre-amble.. I also don't see it in the above excerpt.
Warren says he has a few other FDR's in possession, in which the preamble file also do not show IDENTs. If he decoded them with his own proprietary software again, which I expect, then that does not suffice, because the same eventual fault will repeat itself in all the preambles he has at hand and will eventually get his hands on later.
It would be great to find someone who has that AA self developed "ROSE" software package saved on a HD or stick, somewhere.




As I have indicated at the ATS 9/11 forum, where I included a YouTube video of the crash itself, it is not so far fetched at all to say that raw data files from crashed-FDR's can and have been altered and thus FALSIFIED.
And that's why we need to show the readers of especially this forum, how huge economical reasons will tempt the CEO's and head of departments, and the affiliated politicians, to order tampering with evidence :

AirBus A320 crash!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iikaXNHjuRw...E02D86217E2DCD7



Investigation by AirDisaster.com : Air France 296 Airbus 320-100 crash in France 1988.
http://www.airdisaster.com/investigations/af296/af296.shtml

In the first crash of a new 'Fly-By-Wire' aircraft, the Airbus A320-100 impacted trees while performing a fly-by at an airshow and burst into flames. The crew, and Air France maintenance officials, have all been sentenced to probation for manslaughter; the Captain has been imprisoned. Evidence, including photographs, has now been exposed that an Airbus official at the scene switched the Digital Flight Data Recorder before the court hearing.

Photographs :
(IMG:http://www.airdisaster.com/investigations/af296/habsh1.jpg)
N°1: Photograph taken from a helicopter by journalists of SIPA-Press on the accident site.

(IMG:http://www.airdisaster.com/investigations/af296/habsh2.jpg)
N°2: Enlargement of photograph N°1 showing Mr. Gérard carrying the Black Boxes: the CVR on the left, the DFDR on the right.

(IMG:http://www.airdisaster.com/investigations/af296/habsh3.jpg)
N°3: Black Boxes photographed at the Court of Colmar (the DFDR being in the foreground)

(IMG:http://www.airdisaster.com/investigations/af296/habsh4.jpg)
N°4: Enlargement of photograph N°2, showing the visible side of the CVR
(LT : You have to concentrate on the smaller side of the orange container, and enlarge it in a good picture analyzing software package, then you see that there is a horizontal, straight band of much lighter pixels there. Because of the angle to the camera of that small side in that picture, it seems on first sight, that there is no white band there at all. But it is there, however quite fuzzy caused by the lighting circumstances. Do not waste time on the broader side, there's too much white pixelation there. It will confuse you, but the small side will convince you.)


The Institute of Police Forensic Evidence and Criminology (Institut de Police Scientifique et Criminologique, IPSC) based at Lausanne/Switzerland has analyzed photographs from the site of the accident showing a man carrying the Black Boxes. The Black Boxes are equipped with white stripes so that they can more easily be detected under water.

The IPSC has determined that the DFDR from the aircraft has straight stripes on its side (perpendicular to the edges), whereas the DFDR presented at the trial has angled lines. The IPSC comes to the conclusion that:

* either Mr. Gérard is NOT carrying the DFDR of the crashed Airbus A320 on the photograph
* or the DFDR presented at the trial is NOT the one from the crashed Airbus A320.

Since May 1998, it is proven that the Flight Data Recorder was switched after the accident. The Lausanne Institute of Police Forensic Evidence and Criminology (IPSC) comes to the conclusion that the recorder presented to the Court is NOT the one taken from the aircraft after the accident.
-- snip --
On Sunday June 26, 1988, the Airclub at the airfield of Mulhouse-Habsheim in Alsace/France had organized with Air France a low approach of a brand new Airbus A320 in landing configuration. Michel Asseline was the pilot in command of F-GFKC, Pierre Mazière was his first officer, when the aircraft overflew the airfield at 2 pm in wonderful sunny weather. Some seconds later the aircraft touched the tops of the trees behind the runway and crashed into a forest. 3 passengers died in the accident and about 50 were injured. The accident was filmed by a video amateur and has been shown dozens of times on TV. F-GFKC was the first of a couple of aircraft of this type to be lost in the next few years (see below).

The Black Boxes were taken undamaged from the aircraft 2 hours after the crash, but unfortunately they have been out of control of justice for 10 days, and since May 1998 it is proven that the Flight Data Recorder was substituted during this period. The Lausanne Institute of Police Forensic Evidence and Criminology (IPSC) comes to the conclusion that the Black Boxes used in the trial to declare the pilot guilty are NOT the ones taken from the aircraft.

The aircraft was new, Airbus was waiting for commands, a lack of confidence in the highly computerized aircraft would have meant a commercial disaster - not only for the manufacturer, but also for the French administration, which has a share in the European Airbus consortium.

I think not many people interested in 9/11 subjects have seen this prime example of altering FDR evidence, and it will change their view on many things published "officially"....!

As this is a pilots forum, I expect this info to have even more impact on the trust of you all in the honesty of higher-ups in your own profession.
This black-box swap trick has been used by the AirBus Industry conglomerate, to cover up their own software faults.

Knowing that tampering with FDR's is not impossible by the above example, the chance that the NTSB or just one or two technicians have been persuaded to help with the alteration of the 9/11 solid memory blocks from the AA 77 and UAL 93 FDR's is even more a reality, especially when we take in account what was and still is at stake for the real 9/11 executioners, who tried to inspire an overload of patriotic feelings in the populace, and a rage against Muslims in the rest of the world. And then start a never ending row of wars on "terrorism".

This quote of that site is worthy of a lot of contemplation, since Warren and others like Dennis, and the Pilots, all must have asked themselves the same question :
Why are there several seconds missing in that NTSB handed over AA 77 FDR ?
when they read this quote from the same AirDisaster page :

Why shouldn't one believe the official version?

Consider the following argument: If anything was OK with the aircraft, why did the DGAC withhold the tapes until the police confiscated them? Why are there several seconds missing in the recordings, just before the impact? Why have the Black Boxes been substituted?

In my opinion, the falsification of earlier FDR's is a very important part of the 9/11 true historical investigation, thus here is another important page about the 1988 Airbus crash :

Wikipedia, Air France Flight 296.

Sorry for the lengthy quote, but Wiki articles tend to change over time, especially when they were quoted in 9/11 forums, so here is the quintessence of that article, with their references, so it's saved in this pilots forum :

Official report

The official report states[1] the causes of the accident were:

* Very low flyover height, lower than surrounding obstacles.
* Very low speed, reduced to reach maximum possible angle of attack.
* Engines idling during flight.
* Late application of go-around power.

This combination led to the impact of the aircraft with the trees.

The Commission believed that if the descent below 100 feet was not deliberate, it may have resulted from failure to take proper account of the visual and aural information intended to give the height of the aircraft.

Disputed account
(LT : And that's why we have to save it. Of course AirBus Industry and the French institutes involved in this smearing of the life-long reputation of a top pilot from Air France will do their utterly best to change this article. They already succeeded in totally erasing all leads to this event described in the detailed report by French pilots, on the forensic Swiss IPSC report on the site of the French Airline Pilots' Association, (in French). You will not find anything regarding this flight when you do an extensive search on the pages of these (very afraid for their jobs) French pilots. Use the names, flight identification date etc; nothing at all anymore, while it was there before!.)

A320 operation anomalies

Third-party investigations into the crash dispute the official findings.[2] Captain Asseline asserted that the altimeter read 30m (100'). However, while the pilots were trained in metric, this particular plane was in Imperial units (LT : that used feet! ). Air France didn't inform the crew of this critical change. Captain Asseline also reported that the engines didn't respond to his throttle input as he attempted to increase power. In the month prior to the accident, Airbus had posted two Operational Engineering Bulletins (OEBs) indicating anomalous behavior in the A320 aircraft. These bulletins were received by Air France, but were not sent out to pilots until after the accident:

OEB 19/1: Engine Acceleration Deficiency at Low Altitude

This OEB noted that the engines may not respond to throttle input at low altitude.

OEB 06/2: Baro-Setting Cross Check

This OEB stated that the barometric altitude indication on the A320 did not always function properly.

These malfunctions could have caused both the lack of power when the throttle was increased, and the inability of the crew to recognize the sharp sink rate as the plane passed 100 feet into the trees.
(LT : This sentence is another indication for Legge and Stutt, that they are wrong in thinking that a pilot at low level will keep an eye on the radio altitude meter. They keep an eye on the barometric altitude meter. )

Investigation anomalies

According to French Law, the flight data recorder and cockpit voice recorder are to be immediately retrieved by the police in the event of an aircraft accident. However, the recorders were taken by the civil aviation authorities and held for 10 days until they were finally confiscated.

The flight data recorder (FDR) and cockpit voice recorder (CVR) from which the accident report had been made showed a series of anomalies, which had led critical people to call into question their authenticity.

* The black boxes had been physically opened, and the magnetic tape had been cut. Normally the black boxes do not need to be opened to be read.

* 8 seconds of the recording are missing, 4 of those seconds are missing just before the impact, implying that the flight data recorder had stopped automatically before the impact.
(LT : That's what happened to the FDR from flight AA 77 too. But AA 77 had no tape, but solid state memory blocks, so no moving parts involved with recording data. And flight UAL 93 its FDR had also a strange ending. Especially the height above Viola Sailor's house was several seconds (about 6) out of synchronization with the offered NTSB CVR and animation. )

* The flight data recorder and the cockpit voice recorder are 4 seconds out of synchronization during the last part of the recording.
(LT : Dennis, and Warren, did you find any synchronization anomalies in the AA 77 FDR?
Warren gives this comment on it :
""Sync Lost
This parameter is "Sync Lost" for any frame which contains the special loss of synchronization Hamming Code which indicates loss of synchronization and the subsequent end of the section of compressed data. Otherwise the parameter is blank.""
He also addressed it in the very last section ; "Words in Frame".
Warren, were there any "Sync Lost" frames, and did they have less than 1020 words?

I could not find one SYNC or LOST in the A-F CSV file. (PS : see my last PS-III at the bottom of this post, there are obviously some great corroboration points with this 1988 Airbus incident)

Did anyone of you two ever looked into the UAL 93 FDR? Because I expect you will find a synchronization event at the moment the "hijackers" took over, perhaps also in the AA 77 files.
I think it's not unreal to suppose a remote control software package took over. I have studied both flights for 9 years now, and there are a few very strange anomalies to be found in the UAL 93 flight recordings, and the radar and ATC records, which I think you have addressed also before.If not, I'll post them later, when I have read this whole site. One is the total absence of rudder input signals at "hijack" time, which Dennis mentioned. )

* There is no indication of any deceleration of the aircraft at the point of impact on the flight data recorder. The crash (survived by all but 3 passengers) should have abruptly stopped the flight data recorder.
(LT : Warren said he found a strong deceleration in the last second part of the FDR, in the last subframe of it. Rob told us, that a minus-1 G deceleration is not at all a "strong" deceleration event. Just using the air-brakes, or some other movements of the plane's utilities could cause such a minor G-event. (Rob Balsamo : A minus 1G de(ac)celeration can be caused by many things. Including speed brakes and pulling the Thrust Lever's to idle. You know... ummm.. to perhaps tighten your turn radius?) Like beginning to make a sharp turn over the Pentagon roofs, towards runway 15 om Reagan National Airport. )

* When the aircraft struck the trees, its wings made an aisle in the forest - a valuable source of forensic evidence. However, the trees were cut down within 3 days after the accident. The order to cut down the trees was given by the Accident Investigation Bureau. While going down, the aircraft cut the trees at a height of 11 m (36 ft) on the left and 8.5 m (28 ft) on the right side. This difference may indicate that the engines were not running at the same speed at the time of impact.
(LT : If you look at the crash video above, the plane's wings entered the horizontal pine tree line perfectly level, see 014 / 025 minutes (you can see there's a lot of "smoke" behind the right jet engine). After that, the jet motors were "mowing" the pine tree tops and sucked in huge amounts of foliage, causing the fan blades to be damaged and loosing different max power per motor. That's my opinion.)

* Pilot training and simulators for Airbus equipment were all based on metric units of measurement. However, flight 296 operated in Imperial units (feet f.ex.). The crew was not informed of this deviation.[citation needed]

Due to these anomalies, the authenticity of the recorders were brought into question. In May of 1998, the Lausanne Institute of Police Forensic Evidence and Criminology (IPSC) determined that the recorders presented to the Court were not the ones taken from the aircraft after the accident.[3]

Outcome

The accident and resulting fire killed 3 of the 130 passengers. Of those three, one was an adult and the other two were young children. It is believed that the adult, a female, had attempted to rescue a trapped 7 year old girl. During the evacuation, people had pushed on the back of the girl's seat, and the seat folded over on the girl who became trapped by her own seat belt. The woman was attempting to free the young girl from her seat when they were both overcome by the fire. A young boy was found impaled through the chest by a piece of wreckage. Captain Asseline, First Officer Mazière, two Air France officials and the president of the flying club sponsoring the air show were all charged with involuntary manslaughter. All 5 were found guilty. Captain Asseline was initially sentenced to 6 months in prison along with 12 months of probation. The others were sentenced to probation. During the appeal process, Captain Asseline's sentence was increased to 10 months of imprisonment along with 10 months of probation. Asseline walked free from the court and said he would appeal to France's Supreme Court, the Cour de Cassation. According to French law, Asseline was required to submit himself to the prison system before his case could be taken up by the Supreme Court.

Dramatization

On 8 March 2010, an episode of the Mayday (Air Crash Investigation, Air Emergency) TV series featuring this accident was broadcast. The episode is entitled "Pilot vs. Plane".

See also
France portal
Aviation portal

* List of accidents and incidents involving commercial aircraft
* List of airshow accidents and incidents
* Record of the crash on youtube

References

1. ^ Accident description at the Aviation Safety Network. Retrieved on 2007-02-03.
2. ^ Kilroy, Chris (1997-2006). "Investigations: Air France 296". AirDisaster.com. Retrieved 2006-06-18.
3. ^ "AirDisaster.Com: Investigations: Air France 296". Retrieved 2010-09-14.

LT:
4. Bureau d'Enquêtes et d'Analyses (BEA) - France : ASN Aircraft accident Airbus A320-111 F-GFKC Mulhouse-Habsheim
5. Air France Crash, Black Boxes Substituted, Civil Aviation Forum.

There is no indication of longitudinal deceleration at the impact. This might be expected in a collision with a mountain, but in Habsheim the recorders should have been able to operate until the aircraft disintegrated. Any crash which could be survived by all but 3 passengers should not have caused an abrupt stop in the DFDR recording.

And of those 3 victims were two of them a victim of the fire which reached them after a woman tried to rescue a boy who was trapped in his, by another panicked passenger behind him, folded chair with his safety belt still strapped on, so he could not get out. The third one, a boy, was speared through his chest by a plane part during the crash.

I am still looking for the original Swiss report by the ISPC, which is part of the University of Lausanne, its their Police Forensic Evidence and Criminology Institute. (Institut de Police Scientifique et Criminologique)
Which concluded that the box shown in court was not the box carried away by Monsieur Gérard, a French Directorate General for Civil Aviation (DGAC) official (like the NTSB, or even the FAA in the USA).

AA 77 details :
Aircraft:Boeing 757-200, registration: N644AA American Airlines Flight 77, crashed into Pentagon in Arlington,
http://www.ntsb.gov/NTSB/brief.asp?ev_id=2...00105&key=1
757-223 built in 1991, msn (Manufacturer Serial number:) 24602, delivered May 8, 1991.

Read more, click this link.





Post Scriptum I : On a side note :
For those, not really in the latest "Know" about how the military, banks, conglomerates and Administrations worldwide are countering truth seeking Internet forum posters, please read this very informative blog excerpt, stock-full with links, by "George Washington", our well-known by now, colleague historical truth-seeker.
It seems to deviate from my opening post, but cyber warfare is nowadays a huge part of our opposition and must be taken in account when observing arguments from "the other side".


Post Scriptum II :
Warren, if I understand your first entry right, in your "Notes on Parameters for the AAL77 FDR Decoder" :

CODE

http://www.warrenstutt.com/AAL77FDRDecoder/NotesOnParameters.html

then the following list of parameters which we all are so damn interested in, and the NTSB and the FBI apparently not, are written to the FDR as coded data. Are these codes mentioned somewhere as a specific accepted kind of coding? Like f.ex. PGP encryption code, or company owned encryption. Or is it a special (encryption?) code from L-3 Communications and used by them, together with the Airline who owns the planes? Because they surely need these part numbers, as does the FAA, when investigating or controlling crashes or planes. We all do not understand what the reason is for the NTSB and the FBI to withhold the part numbers which will identify the plane as AA 77 when its whole maintenance and repair history will be published.
They both, certainly can force L-3 Communications and AA to hand them the codes for all these part numbers which have been exchanged in the 10 years and 4 months lifetime of the plane.

CODE

A/C NUMBER
EICAS OPC PART NUM
EICAS OPS PART NUM
ENGINE IDENT
FLEET IDENT
Raw EICAS OPC PART NUM LSB
Raw EICAS OPC PART NUM MSB
Raw EICAS OPS PART NUM LSB
Raw EICAS OPS PART NUM MSB
I used the location for these parameters in D226A101-3G.pdf rather than the locations in 757-3b_1.txt. D226A101-3G.pdf lists these parameters as coded so I got the program to interpret them as unsigned integers.

I have to say, there are quite some parameters where you could not produce sensible values for, and then you removed them from YOUR program.
Do you think Dennis could unearth these values with HIS software he used for his decode?
Dennis, can you?

I am also confused by the many times you refer to the "ROSE" conversion software ( 757-3b_1.txt) developed by American Airlines itself to decode their very own FDR's, as not reliable or turning out different values than the conversions file you used (D226A101-3G.pdf ) to decode the FDR with your software.
OK, I can imagine that AA makes a mistake in their own conversion software guide. But, so many?


Post Scriptum III :
I see now that my synchronization question to Warren and Dennis is also addressed by tumetuestumefaisdubien in the "Aal77 Fdr Decoder Program" thread, in post #229 :
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...&p=10794342

He found a SYNC error of 4 seconds between the CSV file and the FDR file.
Ought that not to be shown in the CVS files as a SYNC LOST value?

I do remember that John Farmer (and Warren also?) already found out that 4 to 6 seconds were missing at the end of that FDR file and called it a defect, and he explained it already in 2006 or so, when he first came out with his decoding software, but I doubt that it had something to do with sync losses. More with "forgotten to decode" last subframes by the NTSB decoder team.
John Farmer found at that time, that the last known official NTSB position of the plane was somewhere beside the Sheraton Hotel, and thus concluded that 4 to 5 seconds were missing from the FDR. Then Warren came and deciphered for us another 4 seconds or so, of partly damaged FDR frames and decoded them to CSV subframes, by using his own developed FDR decoding software.

I feel the need to express my gratitude to Warren, for his years long dedication in this FDR case.
And I also do believe he honestly exchanges his opinions, and he does include his reasoning in his posted files and his notes (which can be freely accessed), which an dishonest person would avoid.
In case of his cooperation with Legge, he is wrong on several points. Especially the far too easy way they pass over the clock discrepancy of up to 6 to 7 seconds makes me wonder.

NOTE : I also had to sync back about 6 seconds in the UAL 93 animation to come to acceptable heights witnessed by several important, last minutes of that flight, witnesses. That FDR also has quite some strange sync events. END NOTE.

We are all together already on a 9.5 years long quest for the truth, so lets show eachother some respect, even when we are opponents or have some minor or major disagreements.


Post Scriptum IV :

Well, that's a swiftly brushed aside statement I read in Legge and Stutt's new thesis paper, "Calibration of Altimeter". In page 2 :

Three more subframes were recorded, one second each, bringing the time of
the last recording to 9:37:52, 6 or 8 seconds later than the two official times of impact. We
do not assert that this accurately represents the time of impact as the clock in the aircraft
may have been incorrect.

See my NOTE just above there, in PS-III.

I proved to another pilot (weedwhacker) who is a firm believer of the official SoC flight path, over at A.T.S., that the Captains Clock of UAL 93 (just as the clock from his co-pilot) was totally in sync with all the other (atomic clock based) clocks used at the FAA operated ATC flight controller stations, the RADES radar stations and other involved radar equipped places, like airfields. And the AA-airline base, where they sent those ACARS messages to the plane. These are personal family related messages, or internal airline communication messages, via the airline base office to the crew onboard an airliner. And are also locked to the NIST or NAVAL Institute atomic clocks.
They all are based on time codes automatically recorded in f.ex. the ATC audiotapes for the FAA centers and correlated with each data set in a process internationally accepted within the aviation accident investigation community.

Boeing 757 Flight Instruments : Clock.

"Whistleblower Reveals"

CODE

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/viewthread.php?tid=575422&page=6#pid9067602

See the other A.T.S. thread-link a bit below, too, for much more on the Captains Clock.

I do expect if you use the same reasoning, but now on the AA 77's Captains Clock take-off setting, you will find the same perfect synchronization between the FDR and CVR times.
First read both threads where I addressed that Captains Clock setting, then check if you can follow the same procedure as I did to now however prove that AA 77's clock was also set correctly, according to strongly pressed by the airlines (to always execute) standardized procedures, the well-known instrument-checks before take-off.

It will not turn up in the Cockpit Voice Recording, because that recording records only time frames of 30 to 31 minutes, then overwrite them again when starting the next frame. It will thus have solely the last 31 minutes of a crashed flight in its memory blocks.
I still wonder, when there is a plane-crash, f.ex. 25 minutes after the CVR restarted, do we then have 6 minutes of the second last frame attached at the end of those 25 minutes?

Do also remember that we have no access online, to UAL 93 its CVR. Also not offline, only close relatives did hear the CVR played out for them once, by the FBI in a closed meeting.
We can only download a written excerpt of that CVR from UAL 93.

Do we have access to the CVR of AA 77? I remember that the NTSB declared the CVR too badly damaged to be useful.

Shanksville Eyewitness Viola Saylor, my A.T.S. post on page 3 :

CODE

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread421852/pg3#pid9089789

In this Captains Clock post from me, is another row of posts linked to in another thread, do click that one too!
And this is another clock statement by Legge and Stutt on page 14 / 16 :

Time discrepancies
After adjusting the timeline in the CSV file by adding 4 seconds throughout, the data lines
up with the FDR file. This file still finishes 4 seconds earlier than the FDR file, due to
omission of the last four seconds of data. We do not assert that either of these files has the
timeline correct. It could be that the clock in the plane was incorrect, hence adjustment
might have been appropriate.

Again, the Captains Clock of UAL 93 was set correctly before take-off. And functioned correctly during the whole flight.
And so I expect the AA 77 clock to have been set correctly too.
Could it be that 4 seconds were cut-out to hide the moments when a supposed remote-control software took over?

Post Scriptum V :

I do wholeheartedly agree with this post #10 by "painter" :
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...&p=10779985

Its very well worded and deserves a pat on the shoulder for expressing exactly my feelings.

[Aldo Marquis CIT]

Aldo : I am not sure how many times we have to tell you LaBTop.
(1) The plane could not and did not hit the Pentagon.
LT : It could easily, especially since it flew much slower than they want us to let believe with FALSE radar data and an also FALSE FDR. I believe the witnesses, who describe much slower speeds.

[...]

A more detailed explanation.
(1). That plane COULD hit the Pentagon. No problem.
Read my posts #1 to #6. Better, re-read all my posts and links up to this one, a few times. Note especially my altered big drawing out of the ASCE report, where I superimposed an, on-scale with that drawing, 757-200, which wingtips exactly covers the space between all the red, severed columns, and its nose-cone hits between column 13 and 14 under an 90° angle. And stops near the second wall, the E-ring internal wall. Its fuselage totally crumbled.

Would you like to weigh in, Rob or any of the other aviation professionals? With the NoC flight path from the untouched light poles/highway sign/trees-with or without pull up, the spools, the turned trailer, the internal directional damage, Columns 15, 16, and 17 uprooted at the base, Column 14AA, lack of crater or foundation damage, the alleged nose section of plane reportedly at C-ring hole--- can the plane impact???

[onesliceshort]

Would you like to weigh in, Rob or any of the other aviation professionals? With the NoC flight path from the untouched light poles/highway sign/trees-with or without pull up, the spools, the turned trailer, the internal directional damage, Columns 15, 16, and 17 uprooted at the base, Column 14AA, lack of crater or foundation damage, the alleged nose section of plane reportedly at C-ring hole--- can the plane impact???

Let's not forget the necessary Star Trekesque descent after passing "over the poles" (as per Chris Sarns) to squeeze its 50 ft agl ass into the first floor and the fact that Wallace, Skipper and Boger weren't blown to smithereens by any explosives to "ease penetration" (vaseline/KY jelly may be the road to explore?).

Or the fact that columns within 40-60 feet were untouched/still standing on the NOC trajectory, etc etc..

[LaBTop]

Let me first express again something very important regarding this discussion.
I, and so to see quite a lot of you, expect Dennis Cimoni to be able to show us evidence that the FOIA released FDR is bogus.
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.p...&p=10793591


I for one, am extremely interested in those more than 35 times that the electrical power was shut off to the whole black box, and then later switched on again.
Dennis says it's a sure sign that that FDR came from a workbench session.
If I can see those 35 events with my own eyes, I am convinced that that AA 77 FDR is proven false. Now I am 99% sure of it.
Btw, at the moment that is shown to us, for me, and I suppose for you all too, the whole discussion with Warren Stutt becomes directly redundant.


So, do not get trapped in the age-old adagio of starting to base your arguments on a nearly sure falsified FDR combined with all NoC eyewitnesses.

The only thing that you hope to arrive at when you concentrate on that false FDR, is hopefully to find and show enough evidence that the whole damn FDR is 100% false.
And in my opinion, we are already as far as to name it that way.

And thus, do not make the huge mistake to connect that ever growing list of rock-hard NoC eyewitness evidence, with a false FDR, handed over by the very entity we strongly suspect of tampering on a huge scale with all the 9/11 evidence.

We are back at phase 1, the REAL eyewitnesses, of which there are now a few very important new ones (Steve Riskus, Christine Peterson, Penny Elgas, Vin Narayanan and Don Mason, even Frank Probst) who vividly described where the plane really flew, and where it hit. See my posts about them on page 1.

It flew much slower than shown in that false FDR, in reality it was passing over Route 27 from a NoC path at a near 90° angle.
Thus, the whole calculations episode of a very slight downward descent arc from about 120 feet high (10 feet above Annex roof + 70 feet hill) minus 40 feet (10 feet above light poles + halfway traffic sign, all opposite of the Heliport) with a crazy high speed flown at 30% above safety margins of a 757-223 in dense air at near ground level (instead of 33,000 feet at cruising speed where most margins are tested) has become redundant.

Do the same calculations again, but now with near stall speeds (f.ex. 260 km/hr) with a plane flying with no flaps out, in a clean configuration. As I said before, to a perpendicular witness on Route 27 or 395, that plane passing him / her will look as if it flew still very fast, faster than any standard car drives.
Have you ever stood on a German Raststätte Parkplatz, and looked at the Ferrari's, Porsche's, BMW's, Audi and Mercedes fastest models whooshing past you on the adjacent Autobahn with near maximum speeds of about 240 km/hr? That looks mighty fast, and you have difficulty to follow that car, so fast will it speed past the slower cars who only drive cruising speeds of 160 to 180 km/hr.
In that new calculation case, we still have the choice between 2 mm up, or 2mm down movement of the steering column, so a fly-over, or an impact at the slab between the first and second floor.
And all witnesses near to the plane said it impacted exactly where we saw the damage in the first 19 minutes photos.

Just ask yourself, if in reality, a slow flying plane (Boger, Middleton and a few others) needed between 10 to 12 to even 15 seconds to cover the distance between the last Annex building Nr 8 its roof line, and these columns 13 and 14 in the west wall, and some of you seem to firmly believe that it was possible to let that same plane perform a f.ex. 4 feet high fly-over over the roof line (not the wall itself, that's lower) of the west wall, which means a slight pull of the pilots steering column, why it would be such an outlandish thought to think that instead, the steering column was pushed down slightly, and the fuselage's main center beam of the plane hit at 2/3 of the height of that 14 feet plane's body hole in the Pentagon's west wall's E-ring?

And so to hear from most real witnesses, the plane accelerated only in the last 1 or 2 seconds.

Why was the 60.25° to 61.5° damage path prepared in advance, by laying out all the explosives inside the building, and the 5 light poles cut in advance?
This question holds ground for both a fly-over event, or a near 90° impact.

Over at A.T.S. I have said it from the beginning, all the missing trillions of black budget funds, which their auditors worked on already for a few years, these auditors were killed, and all the NAVY Intelligence ONI office personnel and the others present there, ordered there for a meeting later on with Rumsfeld. Even a general was killed. The back-up files stacked at WTC 7 were also gone after the collapse there. It was mentioned in my first post at A.T.S in 2005. (before that, I was active at other forums and sites. Already from the Kennedy murders on, before the Internet came up. And the Oklahoma City bombing and the first WTC bombing)


Something strange is going on worldwide, the masses seem to awake and shake of their fears. CIA anyone?
Be aware, America's power grabbers and puppeteers, it could unexpectedly backlash on your turf and in your army too.
There were a bit too many false flag wars, started by the USA. We are in the middle of the last one.
It's getting too damn obvious, who's getting us in all these troubles since 1900.

[LaBTop]

Let's not forget the necessary Star Trekesque descent after passing "over the poles" (as per Chris Sarns) to squeeze its 50 ft agl ass into the first floor and the fact that Wallace, Skipper and Boger weren't blown to smithereens by any explosives to "ease penetration" (vaseline/KY jelly may be the road to explore?).

Or the fact that columns within 40-60 feet were untouched/still standing on the NOC trajectory, etc etc..

The last descent path from +/- 40 feet AGL above light poles, to about 10 feet AGL nose cone hitting, that's 30 feet height difference, is not at all difficult, surely not at much slower, near stall speeds.

I have never said anything like "to ease penetration". Never. Calculate the impact power effect of a 290,000 kg plane at about 260 km/hr on the 40 cm thick masonry and steel and Kevlar filled Pentagon wall. There was no need for extra help to penetrate that wall. And that's why it stopped penetrating any further than the back wall from the E-Ring, exactly where the collapse damage ended.

The explosives for the rest of the fake 60.25° inside damage path must have been set deeper in the building than you think.
It could even be that they were exploded a few minutes later, since we have that photo which was shot 1 or 2 minutes after impact, of a white hot explosion spitting out from that 14 feet diameter entry hole.

I would say 40 ft AGL. To clear those still standing Route 27 light poles of about 28 feet high.
Did the latest Steve Riskus interview by the Italian gentleman which I linked to on page 1 not shake you in any way? He saw, a much nearer to him, plane crossing Route 27 perpendicular, than the 300 meters/yards further SoC officially proposed one.

The plane's most sturdy beams are the longitudinal beams, laying under the floor of the cockpit and the passenger cabin, thus, when those beams impacted just under the first floor slab from the E-ring wall, that very sturdy slab cut the plane's round body like a blunt knife a pack of butter, in a 1/3 bottom part with all the heavy parts like the main fuel tank, wings and wing roots, landing gears, jet motors; and a 2/3 top part with only the much lighter aluminum thin body, and at the end the tail section sticking up.

And that is what we see in the first photos, less damage above that floor slab than under it.
This slicing of the plane would also "guide the two "peeled" parts along the floor slab inwards, leaving it no room to touch the ground floor, where we saw no real skid lines in the photos shot, after cleaning the rubble away.

A floor slab is a multitude of times more stronger and sturdy, than a thin column, when hit head-on.
It has the whole horizontal floor area behind it as a massive solid ram.

Who are the three you mention? I suppose the two men and the one lady in the Heliport Tower. One man was working on the first floor, the lady and Sean Boger were looking out of the Tower windows second floor and saw the plane come "right" at them. The lady quickly understood she had seen a false flag operation, and did never talk, as far as I know.

Have you never wondered in all these years, why these people and the 2 firefighters behind the Pumper Engine were not showered by myriads of ricocheted sharp plane parts and beheaded and mangled like in a meat grinder, if that plane would have come from SoC, under an angle of 60.25°.
Most front left-side plane parts would have been ricocheted in their general direction, and lots of bigger, much bigger parts would have been spread out along the northern part of the west wall.

Only when an impact occurred at near 90° angle, will all broken parts continue mainly on that same course, inwards.

Could you show me what you mean by those columns still standing? Do you mean inside, or outside along the west wall?
Inside can't be, since a NoC plane hitting under a 90° angle, was totally taken up by the later collapsed part of the E-Ring, no columns left over, to inspect there.
The left motor cut that whole "corner" section out under the second floor still standing after building collapse, and the left wing will have been splintered against the same first floor slab. As you could see in the test with the Phantom, which was a heavy, full stainless steel fighter jet, which got shot over a rail at a massive concrete block with about 800 km/hr, that plane totally disintegrated, and very fine plane and concrete parts were sprayed backwards under about a max angle of 60°.

If you look at my superimposed drawing on page 1 of a, to scale 757-223 on the ASCE building damage path drawing, both wings touched all the red columns, and the right wingtip would have scraped the roof of the diesel generator trailer.

[LaBTop]

Let's go back to Roosevelt Roberts one more time.
I found this photo at Craig's Fly-over thread at A.T.S. ;

CODE

http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread378783/pg1#pid4750446

where Craig and Aldo introduced the North Side Flyover, and defended their conclusion, that Roberts was a fly-over witness. This was posted in 2008.
There's a little green line pointing at a yellow placeholder-dot for Roberts position, as thought by CIT in 2008. This is also the first reason why I placed Roberts also there, and the second reason is what I understand from Roberts own explanation.

(IMG:http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/lytetrip/Pentagon/northside%20flyover/overheadwhite2.jpg)


Two simple observations :
1. CIT placed Roberts at that time at exactly the same place I have placed him in my aerial view photo where I drew the boundary lines from Roberts field of view. About 20 yards/meters outside the south wall.
Last year they said to me that he stood at a small loading dock at the far eastern corner of the south wall.
Where does that new opinion on Roberts position come from? Did you have any more interviews with Roosevelt Roberts where you can conclude that new position from?
See 2, since a further east position makes no difference regarding his view of the incoming NoC plane.
He could look over the elevated center loading dock construction and still see a plane flying near the CITGO.

2. Do you agree that if you draw a line along the south wall, it becomes clear that Roberts could have seen most of a NoC flight path, to just before Route 27, where he lost sight of it, since it became blocked by the south wall. Also the case if he stood near the east corner of the south wall.

If you place him, just as I did, even 10 to 20 yards/meters away from that south wall, he could even see the plane just cross Route 27. He stood then on that yellow dot.
As Roberts himself said he stopped after running some steps outside, after he saw on the TV set in the hall inside, the second plane-hit in New York, with that huge fuel explosion.
He saw that explosion on TV, that he mentioned in one of his interviews, ran outside to check if there was any danger from airplanes, around the Pentagon. And then he saw, in my opinion, the NoC plane on its way from north of the gas station towards Route 27.

I have to add, it is still possible that he described a plane on its way to runway 15 of Reagan National airport. But in my opinion, it's not what he described.
If he saw the plane already just before the CITGO, then he will describe that easily as flying above the light poles at the boundary of south parking. (Its west side!)

CIT sees that however as a description of the lightpoles at the very eastern side of the south parking, so we differ in opinion.
In my mind, when logically reasoning, there's much more evidence by a lot of real eyewitnesses, of an impact, than the difficult to understand words of Roberts.

And if you combine all these impact and NoC witnesses, and compare that to that one witness who perhaps could mean the eastern side of south parking, than I admit, that the shear impact-numbers win.
And all these NoC + impact witnesses alone already, do rule that FDR a farce. The last 12 seconds of that FOIA-released FDR do not cover AT ALL that very convincing amount of NoC eyewitness reports.

http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/lyt...rheadwhite2.jpg

[onesliceshort]

LabTop, I've went through this same nonsense for months.

The aircraft is alleged to have entered the Pentagon on a low and level trajectory. So, not only does the aircraft have to make a descent at either 0.4 or 0.8 seconds before the facade, but you're also claiming that the aircraft entered and penetrated in an angular descent.

The "10 ft" claim is way off. The nose of the aircraft is alleged to have struck the facade at that height but the aircraft would have to be in almost level flight.

The aircraft length was just 3 times the length of the lawn at the entry point you are going with!

Chris Sarns, like you, wanted to play around with both the official account and the NOC witness accounts, taking what suited from each and muddy the waters.

I don't know about you but the general consensus is that the official story is what needs to be addressed as it stands. The work CIT and Pilotsfor911Truth has done has been under constant attack since they entered the fray on the Pentagon issue, now more than ever.

Impact from NOC is impossible. Why make the sterling job these groups have done on this issue more difficult for people to understand than it already is?

Official Pentagon Narrative v NOC witnesses, aircraft limitations and the increasingly redundant FDR/RADES data = Inside Job

Let the government explain. End of story.

[Aldo Marquis CIT]

Impact from NOC is impossible. Why make the sterling job these groups have done on this issue more difficult for people to understand than it already is?

Because for some people, this is a hobby. This is a way for them to feel like a hero or like they contributed their 2 cents. A lot of people have said that they can see the jealousy or disbelief in the fact that we have pretty much figured out what happened, with very little to almost no help from outside sources. So for a lot of people, they really want to have to their say and they will spend hours on elaborate posts so they can feel like they are doing something.

They are only hurting, not helping.

BTW, slice, you ain't one of them brother.

[panthercat]

Close to 100 tons of metal was not found anywhere on the Pentagon property. It wasn't found inside of the building, so where did it go? It couldn't have disintegrated, because it takes over 1,200 degrees to melt aluminum, which would have left the Pentagon nothing more than a pile of ashes. Official US Army imagery of the supposed crash site had fire trucks and hose lays on the spot where there was supposed to have been a large twin engine jet. Crashed aircraft are supposed to yield a lot of debris, but there wasn't anything near the mess there was supposed to have been for that sized bird. That tells me no large twin engine jet transport struck the Pentagon. "Show me the FOD!"

[LaBTop]

Close to 100 tons of metal was not found anywhere on the Pentagon property. It wasn't found inside of the building, so where did it go? It couldn't have disintegrated, because it takes over 1,200 degrees to melt aluminum, which would have left the Pentagon nothing more than a pile of ashes. Official US Army imagery of the supposed crash site had fire trucks and hose lays on the spot where there was supposed to have been a large twin engine jet. Crashed aircraft are supposed to yield a lot of debris, but there wasn't anything near the mess there was supposed to have been for that sized bird. That tells me no large twin engine jet transport struck the Pentagon. "Show me the FOD!"

The ASCE engineers team were first allowed in, on October 3, 2001.
During that past time all the debris from the collapsed part of the building (including any aircraft debris from a head-on impact laying under it), were swiftly removed, and as far as I know, not photographed, or archived. The rest of the damage path was also cleaned out already.
The whole damn plane has been magically disappeared, eerily identical to all other crash sites.
That alone indicates no fair play.

The ASCE engineers got a cleaned up crash site to start with.
And were only expected to follow the lead of the military, who had cleaned up such a nice clean 60.25° internal damage path. By producing that ASCE Report, which mainly shoveled the idea through our throats that their was a SoC damage path, and additionally added the bulk of the report, a long list of photos from damaged columns, they just followed the expected outcome from the military.
All we have are the few photos taken by ARMY personnel inside the damage path in the days after 9/11, where you could walk, and they show a few parts. Like that hundreds of kilos weighting landing beam. Which laid on top of clearly interior debris from the building itself. It should lay under it. That strut would have first made the damage, came to rest, and then the debris comes down on top of it. Staged.
Then we had these half round compression chamber parts, with those round holes in them. And a few more photos of other smaller debris. And a photo from the heap of debris laying outside that door in the E-ring wall, on the lawn. With a few compression rings from a Pratt & Whitney jet engine with broken off van blades.

Melting Point Aluminum : 660.37 °C (933.52 K, 1220.666 °F) A burning match is hotter, circa 600-800 °C. A burning wooden cubical is much hotter, ~1977 °C.
Btw, aluminum will burn instead of melt in a hot fire. That's why you see on other less destructive plane crash photos, so little aluminum skin and beams left, most of the time only the cockpit and the tail sections remain. The rest of the thinner aluminum, burns like hell.
Producing Aluminum oxides as an end product. A white powder that only melts at a much higher temperature, at about 2000 °C (3600 °F).
Aluminum is actually a very reactive and flammable metal, but it is normally protected by an inert coating of very hard aluminum oxide. Dissolving the oxide layer, though, exposes a fresh aluminum surface, which reacts vigorously with air and water. Sulfuric and nitric acids can dissolve aluminum oxide, as can alkali's such as lye or caustic potash. Mixed with firefighting water, the alkali in f.ex. dry board walls makes a caustic solution that dissolves the aluminum's oxide coating, allowing the aluminum to react with water and generate a lot of exothermic heat. And hydrogen gas, which will burn much hotter, and starts the process of burning the relatively thin outer aluminum plane skin.


Frank Probst saw the left engine hit that low concrete wall around an air vent, and saw it disintegrate, vaporize. The right engine is supposed to have hit that red brick part which was so heavy damaged. Probably also disintegrated in small pieces. Or went into the empty space under it, where probably just such a sturdy brick construction originally sat inside those 2 columns, which was slammed open, and that engine entered there, and was buried later on under the collapsed part of the E-Ring.

Probst, Frank.

Frank Probst : a Pentagon renovation worker and retired Army officer, he was inspecting newly installed telecommunications wiring inside the five-story, 6.5-million-square-foot building. The tall, soft-spoken Probst had a 10 a.m. meeting. About 9:25 a.m., he stopped by the renovation workers' trailer just south of the Pentagon heliport. Someone had a television turned on in the trailer's break room that showed smoke pouring out of the twin towers in New York. "The Pentagon would make a pretty good target," someone in the break room commented. The thought stuck with Probst as he picked up his notebook and walked to the North Parking Lot to attend his meeting. Probst took a sidewalk alongside Route 27, which Route runs near the Pentagon's western face.
(LT : He took the small fence-door you can see in the "burning diesel generator" photos, its just about 3 meter to the right from the hole in the fence you see in those photos. If you look at one of the linked to drawings (the one I rented from Ligon at page 1), you can see that worn-out by shoes, thin path visible on the lawn, starting at that door, which leads to that whitish sidewalk along 27, to tree 1. )

(IMG:http://i511.photobucket.com/albums/s360/Ligon911/nsp/NSPO-Overhead.jpg)


Traffic was at a standstill because of a road accident. Then, at about 9:35 a.m., he saw the airliner in the cloudless September sky. American Airlines Flight 77 approached from the west, coming in low over the nearby five-story Navy Annex on a hill overlooking the Pentagon. He has lights off, wheels up, nose down," Probst recalled. The plane seemed to be accelerating directly toward him. He froze. "I knew I was dead," he said later. "The only thing I thought was, 'Damn, my wife has to go to another funeral, and I'm not going to see my two boys again.'" He dove to his right. He recalls the engine passing on one side of him, about six feet away. The plane's right wing went through a generator trailer "like butter," Probst said. The starboard engine hit a low cement wall and blew apart. He still can't remember the sound of the explosion. Sometimes the memory starts to come back when he hears a particularly low-flying airliner heading into nearby Reagan National Airport, or when military jets fly over a burial at Arlington National Cemetery. Most of the time, though, his memory is silent. "It was pretty horrible," he said of the noiseless images he carries inside him, of the jet vanishing in a cloud of smoke and dust, and bits of metal and concrete drifting down like confetti. [LT : See the interview I posted on page 1, included in the ASCE report. From here on, the lying reporter takes over : )On either side of him, three streetlights had been sheared in half by the airliner's wings at 12 to 15 feet above the ground. An engine had clipped the antenna off a Jeep Grand Cherokee stalled in traffic not far away.
http://www.militarycity.com/sept11/fortress1.html

Probst, Frank. NoC, Impact.

"I was standing on the sidewalk ( parallel to the site of impact)...(LT : Pole 4 and 5 were in the false SoC path, supposedly hit by the left wing tip. Thus, all the rest of the SoC plane passed to the right of those poles 4 and 5. But that whitish sidewalk is NOT AT ALL parallel to the west wall near those 2 poles 4 and 5, where a false SoC plane is said to have crossed that sidewalk ! ) and I saw this plane coming right at me at what seemed like 300 miles an hour. I dove towards the ground and watched this great big engine from this beautiful airplane just vaporize," said Frank Probst, a member of the Pentagon renovations crew commented. "It looked like a huge fireball, pieces were flying out everywhere."
http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/pentagram/6...ws/10660-1.html

If you still don't see what the crux of the matter is here, Probst stood near tree 1 when he dived to the ground, afraid that the jet engine would hit him.
And definitely not near pole 4 or 5. His own words prove it.

[LaBTop]

The witnesses who do not express any indication of North, or South of CITGO flight paths, are left out, or mentioned with their names only.
The other witness names have NoC, SoC or, NoC or SoC attached to their names.

As you can see, there are even a few more arguments in favor of a NoC flight path added for a few new witnesses.


Courtesy of 911Research.wtc7.net

Eyewitnesses Accounts
Eric Bart's Pentagon Attack Eyewitness Account Compilation

French researcher Eric Bart posted on his website an extensive compilation of eyewitness accounts of the September 11th attack. The compilation, perhaps the most complete anywhere, is mirrored here. Eric's compilation is in two parts:

* eyewitness accounts
* press reports

(Entries within each part are alphabetically sorted.)

Eyewitness Accounts

Anderson, Steve. NoC or SoC. Left bank.

I witnessed the jet hit the Pentagon on September 11. From my office on the 19th floor of the USA TODAY building in Arlington, Va., I have a view of Arlington Cemetery, Crystal City, the Pentagon, National Airport and the Potomac River. ... Shortly after watching the second tragedy, I heard jet engines pass our building, which, being so close to the airport is very common. But I thought the airport was closed. I figured it was a plane coming in for landing. A few moments later, as I was looking down at my desk, the plane caught my eye. It didn't register at first. I thought to myself that I couldn't believe the pilot was flying so low. Then it dawned on me what was about to happen. I watched in horror as the plane flew at treetop level, banked slightly to the left, drug it's wing along the ground and slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon exploding into a giant orange fireball. Then black smoke. Then white smoke.
http://www.jmu.edu/alumni/tragedy%5Frespon...5Fmessages.html

Anlauf, Deb & Jeff. NoC or SoC. 1.6 miles in 5 seconds? Seismic shock.

Mrs. Deb Anlauf, resident of Colfax, Wisconsin, was in her 14th floor of the Sheraton Hotel [located 1.6 mile from the explosion], (immediately west of the Navy Annex) when she heard a "loud roar": Suddenly I saw this plane right outside my window. You felt like you could touch it; it was that close. It was just incredible. "Then it shot straight across from where we are and flew right into the Pentagon. It was just this huge fireball that crashed into the wall (of the Pentagon). When it hit, the whole hotel shook. (...) Jeff didn't feel the impact of the plane crash as directly as his wife. He was attending an environmental meeting on the second floor of the hotel when the plane struck the Pentagon. About five seconds before the crash, Jeff said he heard the sound of "tin being dropped," likely as construction workers building an addition to the hotel saw the plane and dropped their building materials. "Then, about 5 seconds later, the whole hotel shook," Jeff recalled. "I could feel it moving. We said 'Oh, my gosh, what's going on?' "
http://www.leadertelegram.com/specialrepor...detail.asp?ID=7

Bauer, Gary. NoC. Right bank.

Gary Bauer, a former Presidential candidate, happened to be driving into Washington, D.C. that morning, to a press conference on Capitol Hill. "I was in a massive traffic jam, hadn't moved more than a hundred yards in twenty minutes. ... I had just passed the closest place the Pentagon is to the exit on 395 . . . when all of a sudden I heard the roar of a jet engine. I looked at the woman sitting in the car next to me. She had this startled look on her face. We were all thinking the same thing. We looked out the front of our windows to try to see the plane, and it wasn't until a few seconds later that we realized the jet was coming up behind us on that major highway. And it veered to the right into the Pentagon. The blast literally rocked all of our cars. It was an incredible moment." massnews.com / Amy Contrada / December 2001
http://www.massnews.com/past_issues/2001/d...1/1201bauer.htm

Bauer, Gary. NoC. Right bank.

"...came from behind us and banked to the right and went into the Pentagon." Interview with Warren Smith
http://www.thecharlotteworld.com/30%20Mins.../garybauer.html

Bell, Mickey. SoC. Left bank.

Mickey Bell : The jet came in from the south and banked left as it entered the building, narrowly missing the Singleton Electric trailer and the on-site foreman, Mickey Bell. Bell had just left the trailer when he heard a loud noise. The next thing he recalled was picking himself off the floor, where he had been thrown by the blast. Bell, who had been less than 100 feet from the initial impact of the plane, was nearly struck by one of the plane's wings as it sped by him. In shock, he got into his truck, which had been parked in the trailer compound, and sped away. He wandered around Arlington in his truck and tried to make wireless phone calls. He ended up back at Singleton's headquarters in Gaithersburg two hours later, according to President Singleton, not remembering much. The full impact of the closeness of the crash wasn't realized until coworkers noticed damage to Bell's work vehicle. He had plastic and rivets from an airplane embedded in its sheet metal, but Bell had no idea what had happened. During Bell's close call, other Singleton workers, including sub-foreman Greg Cobaugh, were doing other work on the first and third floors. The blast wasn't very loud to them. They were talking about reports that two planes crashed into the World Trade Center in Manhattan, New York - not considering the noise they heard could be a similar attack.
http://www.necanet.org/whats_new/report.cfm?ID=1003

Benedetto, Richard. NoC or SoC, plane heading straight down.

Richard Benedetto, a USA TODAY reporter, was on his way to work, driving on the Highway parallel to the Pentagon : "It was an American Airlines airplane, I could see it very clearly.(...) I didn't see the impact. (...) The sound itself sounded more like a thud rather than a bomb (...) rather than a loud bomb explosion it sounded muffled, heavy, very deep. I didn't see any flaps, it looked like the plane was just in normal flying mode but heading straight down. It was straight. The only thing we saw on the ground outside there was a piece of a ... the tail of a lamp post. (Video)
high bandwidth : http://digipressetmp3.teaser.fr/uploads/491/Benedetto2.ram
low bandwidth : http://digipressetmp3.teaser.fr/uploads/491/Benedetto.ram

Boger, Sean. NoC, impact.

Sean Boger, Air Traffic Controller and Pentagon tower chief - "I just looked up and I saw the big nose and the wings of the aircraft coming right at us and I just watched it hit the building." "It exploded. I fell to the ground and covered my head. I could actually hear the metal going through the building." The crew, Boger and Spc. Jacqueline Kidd, air traffic controller and training supervisor, prepared for President George W. Bush to arrive from Florida around 12:30 p.m.
http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/pentagram/6...ws/12049-1.html
(LT : Much more from him in the CIT interviews.)

Bouchoux, Donald R. NoC, saw impact, saw plane parts passing and hitting his Explorer, and other cars around him, even went through the

Donald R. Bouchoux, 53, a retired Naval officer, a Great Falls resident, a Vietnam veteran and former commanding officer of a Navy fighter squadron, was driving west from Tysons Corner to the Pentagon for a 10am meeting. He wrote: At 9:40 a.m. I was driving down Washington Boulevard (Route 27) along the side of the Pentagon when the aircraft crossed about 200 yards in front of me and impacted the side of the building. There was an enormous fireball, followed about two seconds later by debris raining down. The car moved about a foot to the right when the shock wave hit.
(LT : To the right, so, he drove on a southward lane, and had not reached his exit lane to the Pike and the south parking to attend his 10am meeting, which exit begins far before the two trees )
I had what must have been an emergency oxygen bottle from the airplane go flying down across the front of my Explorer and then a second piece of jagged metal come down on the right side of the car.
Washington Post, Sept. 20, 2001
Web link.
(LT : Look if you can find his Explorer in the Riskus photos, and where it stood. )

Bright, Mark. SoC, Saw impact.
(LT : SoC since he said he saw light poles being knocked down. Needs to be re-interviewed to ask if the knocked down poles were added by him after he read about it. Or that he meant poles along the Pike. )

Defense Protective Service officers were the first on the scene of the terrorist attack. One, Mark Bright, actually saw the plane hit the building. He had been manning the guard booth at the Mall Entrance to the building. "I saw the plane at the Navy Annex area," he said. "I knew it was going to strike the building because it was very, very low -- at the height of the street lights. It knocked a couple down." The plane would have been seconds from impact -- the annex is only a few hundred yards from the Pentagon. He said he heard the plane "power-up" just before it struck the Pentagon. "As soon as it struck the building I just called in an attack, because I knew it couldn't be accidental," Bright said. He jumped into his police cruiser and headed to the area.
http://www.dcmilitary.com/marines/henderso...ws/10797-1.html

Campo. NoC ? What grass was he cutting, at the Cemetery, or at the Pentagon lawn?

It was a passenger plane. I think an American Airways plane, Mr Campo said. "I was cutting the grass and it came in screaming over my head. I felt the impact. The whole ground shook and the whole area was full of fire. I could never imagine I would see anything like that here."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/wtccrash/story/0...50486%2C00.html

Cissell, James R. NoC, Impact, since I linked to another interview with him at page 1.

As former Cincinnatian James R. Cissell sat in traffic on a Virginia interstate by the Pentagon Tuesday morning, he saw the blur of a commercial jet and wondered why it was flying so low. ''Right about the time it was crossing over the highway, it kind of dawned on me what was happening,'' said Cissell, son of Hamilton County Clerk of Courts Jim Cissell. In the next blink of an eye, he realized he had a front-row seat to history, as the plane plowed into the Pentagon, sending a fireball exploding into the air and scattering debris - including a tire rim suspected of belonging to the airplane - past his car. (...) In the next seconds dozens of things flashed through his mind. ''I thought, 'This isn't really happening. That is a big plane.' Then I saw the faces of some of the passengers on board,'' Cissell said. While he remembers seeing the crash, Cissell remembers none of the sounds. ''It came in in a perfectly straight line,'' he said. ''It didn't slow down. I want to say it accelerated. It just shot straight in.''
http://www.cincypost.com/attack/cissel091201.html

Cook, Scott P. The C-130 piloted by LTC Steve O'Brien from the Air Guard.

[We didn't know what kind of plane had hit the Pentagon, or where it had hit. Later, we were told that] it was a 757 out of Dulles, which had come up the river in back of our building, turned sharply over the Capitol, ran past the White House and the Washington Monument, up the river to Rosslyn, then dropped to treetop level and ran down Washington Boulevard to the Pentagon (...) As we watched the black plume gather strength, less than a minute after the explosion, we saw an odd sight that no one else has yet commented on. Directly in back of the plume, which would place it almost due west from our office, a four-engine propeller plane, which Ray later said resembled a C-130, started a steep decent towards the Pentagon. It was coming from an odd direction (planes don't go east-west in the area), and it was descending at a much steeper angle than most aircraft. Trailing a thin, diffuse black trail from its engines, the plane reached the Pentagon at a low altitude and made a sharp left turn, passing just north of the plume, and headed straight for the White House. All the while, I was sort of talking at it: "Who the hell are you? Where are you going? You're not headed for downtown!" Ray and Verle watched it with me, and I was convinced it was another attack. But right over the tidal basin, at an altitude of less than 1000 feet, it made another sharp left turn to the north and climbed rapidly. Soon it was gone, leaving only the thin black trail.
http://www.clothmonkey.com/91101.htm
(LT : He described two totally different flightpaths than the RADES radar plot data showed )

Dobbs, Mike. Impact.

Marine Corps officer Mike Dobbs was standing on one of the upper levels of the outer ring of the Pentagon looking out the window when he saw an American Airlines 737 twin-engine airliner strike the building. "It seemed to be almost coming in slow motion," he said later Tuesday. "I didn't actually feel it hit, but I saw it and then we all started running. They evacuated everybody around us." http://www.abqtrib.com/archives/news01/091...s_dcscene.shtml

Dobbs, Mike. Plane flying slower than FDR shows.

"... we saw a plane coming toward us, for about 10 seconds ... It was like watching a train wreck. I was mesmerized. ... At first I thought it was trying to crash land, but it was coming in so deliberately, so level... Everyone said there was a deafening explosion, but with the adrenaline, we didn't hear it."St. Louis Post-Dispatch, Sept. 13, 2001 - Philip Dine
http://web.lexisnexis.com ...
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~julianr/lexisnexis/dobbs.txt

Dubill, Bob.

" (...) when he saw a jetliner fly over the roadway. It filled his field of vision. The jet was 40-feet off the ground speeding toward the Pentagon. The wheels were up
http://www.zwire.com/site/news.cfm?newsid=...44919&rfi=6

Eberle, Bobby

"Riding in a convertible ... I looked back and saw a jet airliner flying very low and very fast.
http://www.gopusa.com/bobby/bobby_091201.shtml
(LT : If there's a convertible in the Riskus photo's, look where it stood. )

Eiden, Steve. NoC or SoC.

Steve Eiden, a truck driver, had picked up his cargo that Tuesday morning in Williamsburg, Va., and was en route to New York City and witnessed the aftermath. He took the Highway 95 loop in the area of the Pentagon and thought it odd to see a plane in restricted airspace, thinking to himself it was odd that it was flying so low. "You could almost see the people in the windows," he said as he watched the plane disappear behind a line of trees, followed by a tall plume of black smoke. Then he saw the Pentagon on fire, and an announcement came over the radio that the Pentagon had been hit.
http://www.baxterbulletin.com/ads/chronology2001/page2.html

Elgas, Penny. NoC, Impact.

Traffic was at a standstill. I heard a rumble, looked out my driver's side window and realized that I was looking at the nose of an airplane coming straight at us from over the road (Columbia Pike) that runs perpendicular to the road I was on. The plane just appeared there- very low in the air, to the side of (and not much above) the CITGO gas station that I never knew was there. My first thought was "Oh My God, this must be World War III!" In that split second, my brain flooded with adrenaline and I watched everything play out in ultra slow motion, I saw the plane coming in slow motion toward my car and then it banked in the slightest turn in front of me, toward the heliport. In the nano-second that the plane was directly over the cars in front of my car, the plane seemed to be not more than 80 feet off the ground and about 4-5 car lengths in front of me. It was far enough in front of me that I saw the end of the wing closest to me and the underside of the other wing as that other wing rocked slightly toward the ground. I remember recognizing it as an American Airlines plane -- I could see the windows and the color stripes. And I remember thinking that it was just like planes in which I had flown many times but at that point it never occurred to me that this might be a plane with passengers. In my adrenaline-filled state of mind, I was overcome by my visual senses. The day had started out beautiful and sunny and I had driven to work with my car's sunroof open. I believe that I may have also had one or more car windows open because the traffic wasn't moving anyway. At the second that I saw the plane, my visual senses took over completely and I did not hear or feel anything -- not the roar of the plane, or wind force, or impact sounds. The plane seemed to be floating as if it were a paper glider and I watched in horror as it gently rocked and slowly glided straight into the Pentagon. At the point where the fuselage hit the wall, it seemed to simply melt into the building. I saw a smoke ring surround the fuselage as it made contact with the wall. It appeared as a smoke ring that encircled the fuselage at the point of contact and it seemed to be several feet thick. I later realized that it was probably the rubble of churning bits of the plane and concrete. The churning smoke ring started at the top of the fuselage and simultaneously wrapped down both the right and left sides of the fuselage to the underside, where the coiling rings crossed over each other and then coiled back up to the top. Then it started over again -- only this next time, I also saw fire, glowing fire in the smoke ring. At that point, the wings disappeared into the Pentagon. And then I saw an explosion and watched the tail of the plane slip into the building. It was here that I closed my eyes for a moment and when I looked back, the entire area was awash in thick black smoke.
http://americanhistory.si.edu/september11/...rting.asp?ID=30

Elliott, Bruce. NoC, because banking.

Former ammunition plant official evacuated building moments before suicide airliner collision.Col. Bruce Elliott, former commander of the Iowa Army Ammunition Plant who was reassigned to the Pentagon in July, watched in horror Tuesday as a hijacked 757 airliner crashed into the nerve center of the U.S. military command. Elliott, in a phone interview Wednesday, said he had just left the Pentagon and was about to board a shuttle van in a south parking lot when he saw the plane approach and slam into the west side of the structure. "I looked to my left and saw the plane coming in," said Elliott, who watched it for several seconds. "It was banking and garnering speed. I felt it was headed for the Pentagon." (...) "It was like a kamikaze pilot. I felt it was going to ram the Pentagon," he said. He said the craft clipped a utility pole guide wire, which may have slowed it down a bit before it crashed into the building and burst into flames. (...) Elliott said the rubble was still smoldering Wednesday morning.
http://www.thehawkeye.com/features/911/IdxThur.html
(LT : This is a second person who saw the plane clip a wire. There were electrical and telephone wires crossing the Pike between two poles, just behind the CITGO, at its north side, I have pictures of them..)

Hemphill, Albert. NoC, Impact.

From the view of the Navy Annex : After a few moments, Lt Gen Ron Kadish, Director of the Ballistic Missile Defense Organization entered the Secure Conference Room to pursue the day's activities and do real work. This office, with two nice windows and a great view of the monuments, the Capitol and the Pentagon was "good digs" by any Pentagon standard. I walked in the office and stood peering out of the window looking at the Pentagon. As I stood there, I instinctively ducked at the extremely loud roar and whine of a jet engine spooling up. Immediately, the large silver cylinder of an aircraft appeared in my window, coming over my right shoulder as I faced the West side of the Pentagon directly towards the heliport. The aircraft, looking to be either a 757 or Airbus, seemed to come directly over the annex, as if it had been following Columbia Pike - an Arlington road leading to Pentagon. The aircraft was moving fast, at what I could only be estimate as between 250 to 300 knots. All in all, I probably only had the aircraft in my field of view for approximately 3 seconds. The aircraft was at a sharp downward angle of attack, on a direct course for the Pentagon. It was "clean", in as much as, there were no flaps applied and no apparent landing gear deployed. He was slightly left wing down as he appeared in my line of sight, as if he'd just "jinked" to avoid something. As he crossed Route 110 (must be 27) he appeared to level his wings, making a slight right wing slow adjustment as he impacted low on the West side of the building to the right of the Heliport, its tower and fire vehicle around corridor 5. What instantly followed was a large yellow fireball accompanied by an extremely bass sounding, deep thunderous boom. The yellow fireball rose quickly as black smoke engulfed the entire West side of the Pentagon, obscuring the whole of the heliport. I could feel the concussion and felt the shock wave of the blast impact the window of the Annex, knocking me against the desk.
http://lists.travellercentral.com/pipermai...ber/013153.html
http://www.ournetfamily.com/WarOnTerror/em...onwitness.shtml

Lagasse, William. NoC.

Sgt. William Lagasse, a pentagon police dog handler, the son of an aviation instructor, was filling up his patrol car at a gas station near the Pentagon when he noticed a jet fly in low. He watched as the plane plowed into the Pentagon. Initially, he thought the plane was about to drop on top of him -- it was that close. (LT : He stood at the pump under the Northern canopy.) Lagasse knew something was wrong. The 757's flaps were not deployed and the landing gear was retracted.
http://206.181.245.163/ebird/e20011108vivid.htm

Lagasse, William. NoC.

I saw the aircraft above my head about 80 feet above the ground, 400 miles an hour. The reason, I have some experience as a pilot and I looked at the plane. Didn't see any landing gear. Didn't see any flaps down. I realized it wasn't going to land. . . . It was close enough that I could see the windows and the blinds had been pulled down. I read American Airlines on it. . . .I got on the radio and broadcast. I said a plane is, is heading toward the heliport side of the building.
http://web.lexis-nexis.com...
http://www2.hawaii.edu/~julianr/lexisnexis/lagasse1.txt

Leibner, Lincoln. NoC. Impact.

"I saw this large American Airlines passenger jet coming in fast and low," said Army Captain Lincoln Leibner. "My first thought was I've never seen one that high. Before it hit I realized what was happening."
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2002/08/23/1030052968648.html

Leibner, Lincoln. NoC. Impact.

After the second plane hit the World Trade Center, Major Lincoln Leibner jumped in his pickup truck and raced to the Pentagon. As he ran to an entrance, he heard jet engines and turned in time to see the American Airlines plane diving toward the building. "I was close enough that I could see through the windows of the airplane, and watch as it hit," he said. "There was no doubt in my mind what I was watching. Not for a second. It was accelerating," he said. "It was wheels up, flaps up, engines full throttle. "
http://www.theosuobserver.com/main.cfm/inc...ynid/54846.html

Leibner, Lincoln. NoC, Impact.

Maj. Leibner drove in and made it as far as the south parking lot, where he got out on foot. "I heard the plane first," he said. "I thought it was a flyover Arlington cemetery." From his vantage point, Maj. Leibner looked up and saw the plane come in. "I was about 100 yards away," he said. "You could see through the windows of the aircraft. I saw it hit." The plane came in hard and level and was flown full throttle into the building, dead center mass, Maj. Leibner said. "The plane completely entered the building," he said. "I got a little repercussion, from the sound, the blast. I've heard artillery, and that was louder than the loudest has to offer. I started running toward the site. I jumped over a fence. I was probably the first person on the scene." A tree and the backend of a crash truck at the heliport near the crash site were on fire and the ground was scorched, Maj. Leibner recounted. "The plane went into the building like a toy into a birthday cake," he said. "The aircraft went in between the second and third floors." At that point, no one was outside. Spotting a Pentagon door that had been blown off its hinges, Maj. Leibner went in and out several times, helping rescue several people. "The very first person was right there," he said. "She could walk. I walked her out onto the grass." Maj. Leibner said a police officer pulled up onto the grass and began to help. "Everybody was hurt," Maj. Leibner said. "They were all civilian females. Everybody was burned on their hands and faces.
http://www.usmedicine.com/article.cfm?arti...&issueID=38

Leibner, Lincoln

Captain Lincoln Leibner says the aircraft struck a helicopter on the helipad, setting fire to a fire truck. We got one guy out of the cab," he said, adding he could hear people crying inside the wreckage. Captain Liebner, who had cuts on his hands from the debris, says he has been parking his car in the car park when the crash occurred."
http://abc.net.au/news/2001/09/item20010911230953_1.htm

Marra, David. NoC?

David Marra, 23, an information-technology specialist, had turned his BMW off an I-395 exit to the highway just west of the Pentagon when he saw an American Airlines jet swooping in, its wings wobbly, looking like it was going to slam right into the Pentagon: "It was 50 ft. off the deck when he came in. It sounded like the pilot had the throttle completely floored. The plane rolled left and then rolled right. Then he caught an edge of his wing on the ground." There is a helicopter pad right in front of the side of the Pentagon. The wing touched there, then the plane cartwheeled into the building.
http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8...74655-4,00.html

Middleton, William Sr. NoC.

The worker, William Middleton Sr., was running his street sweeper through the cemetery when he heard a harsh whistling sound overhead. Middleton looked up and spotted a commercial jet whose pilot seemed to be fighting with his own craft. Middleton said the plane was no higher than the tops of telephone poles as it lurched toward the Pentagon. The jet accelerated in the final few hundred yards before it tore into the building.
http://www.s-t.com/daily/12-01/12-20-01/a02wn018.htm

Mitchell, Terry. Fake "exit" hole.

This is a hole in -- there was a punch-out. They suspect that this was where a part of the aircraft came through this hole, although I didn't see any evidence of the aircraft down there. (...) This pile here is all Pentagon metal. None of that is aircraft whatsoever. As you can see, they've punched a hole in here. This was punched by the rescue workers to clean it out. You can see this is the -- some of the not renovated areas where the windows have blown out.
http://www.patriotresource.com/wtc/federal/0915/DoD.html

Morin, Terry. NoC.

Terry Morin, a former USMC aviator, Program Manager for SPARTA, Inc was working as a contractor at the BMDO offices at the old Navy Annex. Having just reached the elevator in the 5th Wing of BMDO Federal Office Building (FOB) # 2. He heard "an increasingly loud rumbling" One to two seconds later the airliner came into my field of view. By that time the noise was absolutely deafening. The aircraft was essentially right over the top of me and the outer portion of the FOB (flight path parallel the outer edge of the FOB). Everything was shaking and vibrating, including the ground. I estimate that the aircraft was no more than 100 feet above me (30 to 50 feet above the FOB) in a slight nose down attitude. The plane had a silver body with red and blue stripes down the fuselage. I believed at the time that it belonged to American Airlines, but I couldn't be sure. It looked like a 737 and I so reported to authorities. Within seconds the plane cleared the 8th Wing of BMDO and was heading directly towards the Pentagon. Engines were at a steady high-pitched whine, indicating to me that the throttles were steady and full. I estimated the aircraft speed at between 350 and 400 knots. The flight path appeared to be deliberate, smooth, and controlled. As the aircraft approached the Pentagon, I saw a minor flash (later found out that the aircraft had sheared off a portion of a highway light pole down on Hwy. 110 ( LT : It was 27, or the Pike. 110 runs on the riverside. Several witnesses saw a powerline get struck by the plane on the Pike, thus the minor flash.)
As the aircraft flew ever lower I started to lose sight of the actual airframe as a row of trees to the Northeast of the FOB blocked my view. I could now only see the tail of the aircraft. I believe I saw the tail dip slightly to the right indicating a minor turn in that direction. The tail was barely visible when I saw the flash and subsequent fireball rise approximately 200 feet above the Pentagon. There was a large explosion noise and the low frequency sound echo that comes with this type of sound. Associated with that was the increase in air pressure, momentarily, like a small gust of wind. For those formerly in the military, it sounded like a 2000lb bomb going off roughly 1/2 mile in front of you. At once there was a huge cloud of black smoke that rose several hundred feet up. Elapsed time from hearing the initial noise to when I saw the impact flash was between 12 and 15 seconds. (...) the aircraft had been flown directly into the Pentagon without hitting the ground first or skipping into the building. (...) The firemen were appreciative, as the heat inside the building generated from the 8,500 gallons of jet fuel was, in their words, "unbelievable." It was reported that at least three of the fireman had to be given IV fluids due to the extreme heat.
http://www.coping.org/911/survivor/pentagon.htm

Murphy, Peter M. Impact or explosion.

Mr. Peter M. Murphy : No Marine Corps offices were closer to the impact point than those of Mr. Peter M. Murphy, the Counsel for the Commandant of the Marine Corps and the most senior civilian working for the Marine Corps. Mr. Murphy and Major Joe D. Baker were having a discussion in Mr. Murphy's office on the fourth floor of the Pentagon's outermost ring, the E-Ring, overlooking the heli-pad. With CNN on a TV monitor across the room, they stopped their discussion when the news of the World Trade Center attacks came on. After watching awhile, Mr. Murphy asked Mr. Robert D. Hogue, his Deputy Counsel, to check with their administrative clerk, Corporal Timothy J. Garofola, on the current security status of the Pentagon. Garofola had just received an e-mail from the security manager to all Department of Defense employees that the threat condition remained "normal." He passed this information to Hogue, who stepped back into the doorway of Mr. Murphy's office to relay the message. At that instant, a tremendous explosion with what Mr. Murphy said was a noise "louder than any noise he had ever heard" shook the room. Mr. Murphy, who had been standing with his back to the window, was knocked entirely across the room, while Hogue was jolted into his office. Garofola's desk literally rose straight up several inches then slammed down. The airplane had crashed almost directly below Mr. Murphy's offices. The floor buckled at the expansion joint that ran between the two offices and created a discernible step up between the two rooms. The air was filled with dust particles, and the ceiling tiles fell, leaving the lights dangling from their electrical connections; the building was crumbling.The men did not know what had hit them, but they did know that it was time to get out. There was no panic, just a shock-hazed determination to survive. Hogue went to Garofola and told him to "get us out of here." The corporal attempted to open the heavy magnetized door, but it had been jammed and did not budge. Then, Mr. Murphy saw the "Marine" come out in Garofola. He yanked the door as hard as he could and it came open.
http://www.mca-marines.org/Leatherneck/nov01pentagonarch.htm

Narayanan, Vin. NoC. Impact.

"The plane exploded after it hit, the tail came off and it began burning immediately. Within five minutes, police and emergency vehicles began arriving," said Vin Narayanan, a reporter at USA TODAY.com, who was driving near the Pentagon when the plane hit.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/09/11/washscene.htm

Narayanan, Vin. NoC, Impact.

At 9:35 a.m., I pulled alongside the Pentagon. With traffic at a standstill, my eyes wandered around the road, looking for the cause of the traffic jam. Then I looked up to my left and saw an American Airlines jet flying right at me. The jet roared over my head, clearing my car by about 25 feet. The tail of the plane clipped the overhanging exit sign above me as it headed straight at the Pentagon. The windows were dark on American Airlines Flight 77 as it streaked toward its target, only 50 yards away. The hijacked jet slammed into the Pentagon at a ferocious speed. But the Pentagon's wall held up like a champ. It barely budged as the nose of the plane curled upwards and crumpled before exploding into a massive fireball. The people who built that wall should be proud. Its ability to withstand the initial impact of the jet probably saved thousands of lives. I hopped out of my car after the jet exploded, nearly oblivious to a second jet hovering in the skies. Hands shaking, I borrowed a cell phone to call my mom and tell her I was safe. Then I called into work, to let them know what happened. But not once was I able to take my eyes off the inferno in front of me. I think I saw the bodies of passengers burning. But I'm not sure. It could have been Pentagon workers. It could have been my mind playing tricks on me. I hope it was my mind playing tricks on me. The highway was filled with shocked commuters, walking around in a daze.
http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2001/0...irst-person.htm

O'Brien. ATC.

At the Dulles tower, O'Brien saw the TV pictures from New York and headed back to her post to help other planes quickly land. "We started moving the planes as quickly as we could," she says. "Then I noticed the aircraft. It was an unidentified plane to the southwest of Dulles, moving at a very high rate of speed ... I had literally a blip and nothing more." O'Brien asked the controller sitting next to her, Tom Howell, if he saw it too. "I said, 'Oh my God, it looks like he's headed to the White House,'" recalls Howell. "I was yelling ... 'We've got a target headed right for the White House!'" At a speed of about 500 miles an hour, the plane was headed straight for what is known as P-56, protected air space 56, which covers the White House and the Capitol. "The speed, the maneuverability, the way that he turned, we all thought in the radar room, all of us experienced air traffic controllers, that that was a military plane," says O'Brien. "You don't fly a 757 in that manner. It's unsafe." The plane was between 12 and 14 miles away, says O'Brien, "and it was just a countdown. Ten miles west. Nine miles west ... Our supervisor picked up our line to the White House and started relaying to them the information, [that] we have an unidentified very fast-moving aircraft inbound toward your vicinity, 8 miles west." Vice President Cheney was rushed to a special basement bunker. White House staff members were told to run away from the building. "And it went six, five, four. And I had it in my mouth to say, three, and all of a sudden the plane turned away. In the room, it was almost a sense of relief. This must be a fighter. This must be one of our guys sent in, scrambled to patrol our capital, and to protect our president, and we sat back in our chairs and breathed for just a second," says O'Brien. But the plane continued to turn right until it had made a 360-degree maneuver. "We lost radar contact with that aircraft. And we waited. And we waited. And your heart is just beating out of your chest waiting to hear what's happened," says O'Brien. "And then the Washington National [Airport] controllers came over our speakers in our room and said, 'Dulles, hold all of our inbound traffic. The Pentagon's been hit.'"
http://www.abcnews.go.com/sections/2020/20...tc_feature.html

O'Keefe, John. NoC or SoC.

Northern Virginia resident John O'Keefe was one of the commuters who witnessed the attack on the Pentagon. 'I was going up 395, up Washington Blvd., listening to the news, to WTOP, and from my left side-I don't know whether I saw or heard it first- I saw a silver plane I immediately recognized it as an American Airlines jet,' said the 25-year-old O'Keefe, managing editor of Influence, an American Lawyer Media publication about lobbying. 'It came swooping in over the highway, over my left shoulder, straight across where my car was heading. I'd just heard them saying on the radio that National Airport was closing, and I thought, That's not going to make it to National Airport." And then I realized where I was, and that it was going to hit the Pentagon. There was a burst of orange flame that shot out that I could see through the highway overpass. Then it was just black. Just black, thick smoke.'"
http://www.lexisone.com/news/nlibrary/b091201a.html

O'Keefe, John. NoC or SoC.

"I don't know whether I saw or heard it first -- this silver plane; I immediately recognized it as an American Airlines jet," said the 25-year-old O'Keefe, managing editor of Influence, an American Lawyer Media publication about lobbying. "It came swooping in over the highway, over my left shoulder, straight across where my car was heading. "The eeriest thing about it, was that it was like you were watching a movie. There was no huge explosion, no huge rumbling on ground, it just went 'pfff'. It wasn't what I would have expected for a plane that was not much more than a football field away from me. "The first thing I did was pull over onto the shoulder, and when I got out of the car I saw another plane flying over my head, and it scared ...me, because I knew there had been two planes that hit the World Trade Center. And I started jogging up the ramp to get as far away as possible. "Then the plane -- it looked like a C-130 cargo plane -- started turning away from the Pentagon, it did a complete turnaround.
http://www.nylawyer.com/news/01/09/091201l.html

O'Keefe, John. NoC or SoC.

"There was a burst of orange flame that shot out that I could see through the highway overpass. Then it was just black. Just black thick smoke. "The eeriest thing about it, was that it was like you were watching a movie. There was no huge explosion, no huge rumbling on ground, it just went 'pfff'. It wasn't what I would have expected for a plane that was not much more than a football field away from me.
http://www.nylawyer.com/news/01/09/091201l.html

Owens, Mary Ann. NoC. Impact.

Mary Ann Owens, a journalist with Gannett News Service - was driving along by the side of the Pentagon. Here, she recalls the events of that horrific day and her feelings about the tragedy 12 months on. The sound of sudden and certain death roared in my ears as I sat lodged in gridlock on Washington Boulevard, next to the Pentagon on September 11. Up to that moment I had only experienced shock by the news coming from New York City and frustration with the worse-than-normal traffic snarl ... but it wasn't until I heard the demon screaming of that engine that I expected to die. Between the Pentagon's helicopter pad, which sits next to the road, and Reagan Washington National Airport a couple of miles south, aviation noise is common along my commute to the silver office towers in Rosslyn where Gannett Co Inc. were housed last autumn. But this engine noise was different. It was too sudden, too loud, too encompassing. Looking up didn't tell me what type of plane it was because it was so close I could only see the bottom. Realizing the Pentagon was its target, I didn't think the careering, full-throttled craft would get that far. Its downward angle was too sharp, its elevation of maybe 50 feet, too low. Street lights toppled as the plane barely cleared the Interstate 395 overpass.(LT : Clearly another reporter writing or editing this sentence, who is not familiar with the names of the roads ). Gripping the steering wheel of my vibrating car, I involuntarily ducked as the wobbling plane thundered over my head. Once it passed, I raised slightly and grimaced as the left wing dipped and scraped the helicopter area just before the nose crashed into the southwest wall of the Pentagon. Still gripping the wheel, I could feel both the car and my heart jolt at the moment of impact. An instant inferno blazed about 125 yards from me. The plane, the wall and the victims disappeared under coal-black smoke, three-story tall flames and intense heat. As the thudding stopped, screams of horror and hysteria rose from the line of cars (...) The full impact of actually being alive overwhelmed me. A mere 125 yards (LT : that's the width of the lawn in front of the west wall impact site ) had made me a witness instead of a casualty. Survival wasn't a miracle, it was luck ... pure luck.
http://www.thisislocallondon.co.uk/news/di...+Stories.0.html

Owens, Mary Ann. NoC. Impact.

Gannett News Service employee Mary Ann Owens was stopped in traffic on the road that runs past the Pentagon, listening on the radio to the news of the World Trade Center attacks, when she heard a loud roar overhead and looked up as the plane barely cleared the highway. "Instantly I knew what was happening, and I involuntarily ducked as the plane passed perhaps 50 to 75 feet above the roof of my car at great speed," Owens said. "The plane slammed into the west wall of the Pentagon. The impact was deafening. The fuselage hit the ground and blew up."
http://www.delawareonline.com/newsjournal/...rspreadsto.html

Perkal, Don. Smell of Cordite.

The airliner crashed between two and three hundred feet from my office in the Pentagon, just around a corner from where I work. I'm the deputy General Counsel, Washington Headquarters Services, Office of the Secretary of Defense. (...) My colleagues felt the impact, which reminded them of an earthquake. People shouted in the corridor outside that a bomb had gone off upstairs on the main concourse in the building. No alarms sounded. I walked to my office, shut down my computer, and headed out. Even before stepping outside I could smell the cordite. Then I knew explosives had been set off somewhere. I looked to my right and saw a raging fire and smoke careening off the facade to the sky. (...) Two explosions, a few minutes apart, prompted me to start walking.
http://www.mcsweeneys.net/2001/09/19perkal.html

Peterson, Christine.

October 18, 2001 - Christine Peterson, ''73 (LT : She's not 73 years old, as Craig thought when I pointed him at her definite NoC witness account, she was born in 1973, at Northern Arizona University.) found herself in the thick of last month's terrorist tragedy, and submitted this report. It offers a personal perspective on the events in Washington, D.C., which have perhaps been overshadowed in the media by the scope of the horrors in New York. It was 9:30 a.m. on Tuesday, September 11th, and traffic was terrible. For all of my twenty-eight years living in the Washington, D.C. area, terrible traffic was a constant. I'd been in Boston the day before and gotten home late. That morning I repacked my suitcase because I was heading out to San Francisco on the 3:20 p.m. flight. I just needed a few hours in the office first, and now I was officially late for work. (LT : Craig, a 73 year old does not work anymore in an office or worries to be late for work. Btw, she's was 28 years old (2001-1973 = 28), the African-American tall woman with the white blouse and black trousers standing on the concrete of the HOV lane divider, right in front of the two trees and the Heliport, where the NoC plane flew right over her car !!!! See my Riskus photo early on at page 1. ) I was at a complete stop on the road in front of the helipad at the Pentagon; what I had thought would be a shortcut was as slow as the other routes I had taken that morning. I looked idly out my window to the left -- and saw a plane flying so low I said, "holy cow, that plane is going to hit my car" (not my actual words). The car shook as the plane flew over. It was so close that I could read the numbers under the wing. And then the plane crashed. My mind could not comprehend what had happened. Where did the plane go? For some reason I expected it to bounce off the Pentagon wall in pieces. But there was no plane visible, only huge billows of smoke and torrents of fire. (...) A few minutes later a second, much smaller explosion got the attention of the police arriving on the scene.
http://www.naualumni.com/News/News.cfm?ID=613&c=4 (LT : her university alumni website.)

Pfeilstucker, Daniel C. Jr. Explosion witness 40 feet from impact.

Daniel C. Pfeilstucker Jr., caught in the flying debris, didn't know if he was going to make it out alive. The Pentagon was on fire. "It was horrifying," Mr. Pfeilstucker says (...) Danny Pfeilstucker is a commissioning agent for John J. Kirlin Inc., a Maryland-based mechanical contracting company that worked on the Pentagon renovation project that was nearing completion September 11. (...) Kirlin Inc., among many companies involved in renovating the Pentagon since the early 1990s, was in charge of updating plumbing and heating units. Around 9:30 a.m., Mr. Pfeilstucker and a co-worker got orders to check a hot-water leak in a third-floor office on the western side. After doing so, he stepped off an elevator on the second floor in Corridor 4, ladder in hand. Suddenly the walls and the ceiling began to collapse around him. The lights went out. "It went from light to dark to orange to complete black," Mr. Pfeilstucker says. "It was so dark I couldn't even see my hand in front of my face."Within seconds, his left leg buckled. Unable to grab on to anything, he was thrust 70 feet down the corridor and into a tiny telephone closet halfway down the hallway connecting E Ring and A Ring. All I know is that the blast must have pushed open the steel door to the closet," says Mr. Pfeilstucker, who had been 40 feet away from the plane's point of impact. He remembers shutting the door and trying to stand up, not understanding what had just happened. "I thought it was some sort of a construction blast," Mr. Pfeilstucker says. "Or maybe there was a helicopter accident." His hard hat and work goggles were blown away. His ladder also had disappeared. (...) The fire sprinklers came on as the temperature shot up.Then he smelled jet fuel and smoke. The putrid odor was seeping into the closet."It was this odor that I can't describe, but one that I'll never forget, that's for sure," Mr. Pfeilstucker says. "It was so hard to breathe. I didn't think I was going to make it out."
http://www.washtimes.com/september11/heaven.htm

Plaisted.

Plaisted, an artist, was sitting at her desk at home less than one mile from the Pentagon ... I jumped up from my chair as the screeching and whining of the engine got even louder and I looked out the window to the West just in time to see the belly of that aircraft and the tail section fly directly over my house at treetop height. It was utterly sickening to see, knowing that this plane was going to crash. The sound was so incredibly piercing and shrill- the engines were straining to keep the plane aloft. It is a sound I will never stop hearing- and I now imagine the screams of the innocent passengers were commingled with the sounds of the engines and I am haunted. I was unaware at this time that the World Trade center had been attacked so I thought this was just" a troubled plane en route to the airport. I started to run toward my front door but the plane was going so fast at this point that it only took 4 or 5 seconds before I heard a tremendously loud crash and books on my shelves started tumbling to the floor. (LT : and they kept saying that the seismograms did not show conclusive evidence of the time of impact. Everyone describes a shaking of the earth and buildings wobbling when they heard or saw the impact.
http://arlingtondpca.homestead.com
http://www.wherewereyou.org contribution # 1148

Probst, Frank.

Frank Probst : a Pentagon renovation worker and retired Army officer, he was inspecting newly installed telecommunications wiring inside the five-story, 6.5-million-square-foot building. The tall, soft-spoken Probst had a 10 a.m. meeting. About 9:25 a.m., he stopped by the renovation workers' trailer just south of the Pentagon heliport. Someone had a television turned on in the trailer's break room that showed smoke pouring out of the twin towers in New York. "The Pentagon would make a pretty good target," someone in the break room commented. The thought stuck with Probst as he picked up his notebook and walked to the North Parking Lot to attend his meeting. Probst took a sidewalk alongside Route 27, which Route runs near the Pentagon's western face.
(LT : He took the small fence-door you can see in the "burning diesel generator" photos, its just about 3 meter to the right from the hole in the fence you see in those photos. If you look at one of the linked to drawings (the one I rented from Ligon at page 1), you can see that worn-out by shoes, thin path visible on the lawn, starting at that door, which leads to that whitish sidewalk along 27, to tree 1. )

(IMG:http://i511.photobucket.com/albums/s360/Ligon911/nsp/NSPO-Overhead.jpg)


Traffic was at a standstill because of a road accident. Then, at about 9:35 a.m., he saw the airliner in the cloudless September sky. American Airlines Flight 77 approached from the west, coming in low over the nearby five-story Navy Annex on a hill overlooking the Pentagon. He has lights off, wheels up, nose down," Probst recalled. The plane seemed to be accelerating directly toward him. He froze. "I knew I was dead," he said later. "The only thing I thought was, 'Damn, my wife has to go to another funeral, and I'm not going to see my two boys again.'" He dove to his right. He recalls the engine passing on one side of him, about six feet away. The plane's right wing went through a generator trailer "like butter," Probst said. The starboard engine hit a low cement wall and blew apart. He still can't remember the sound of the explosion. Sometimes the memory starts to come back when he hears a particularly low-flying airliner heading into nearby Reagan National Airport, or when military jets fly over a burial at Arlington National Cemetery. Most of the time, though, his memory is silent. "It was pretty horrible," he said of the noiseless images he carries inside him, of the jet vanishing in a cloud of smoke and dust, and bits of metal and concrete drifting down like confetti. [LT : See the interview I posted on page 1, included in the ASCE report. From here on, the lying reporter takes over : )On either side of him, three streetlights had been sheared in half by the airliner's wings at 12 to 15 feet above the ground. An engine had clipped the antenna off a Jeep Grand Cherokee stalled in traffic not far away.
http://www.militarycity.com/sept11/fortress1.html

Probst, Frank. NoC, Impact.

"I was standing on the sidewalk ( parallel to the site of impact...(LT : Pole 4 and 5 were in the false SoC path, supposedly hit by the left wing tip. Thus, all the rest of the SoC plane passed to the right of those poles 4 and 5. But that whitish sidewalk is NOT AT ALL parallel to the west wall near those 2 poles 4 and 5, where a false SoC plane is said to have crossed that sidewalk ! ) and I saw this plane coming right at me at what seemed like 300 miles an hour. I dove towards the ground and watched this great big engine from this beautiful airplane just vaporize," said Frank Probst, a member of the Pentagon renovations crew commented. "It looked like a huge fireball, pieces were flying out everywhere."
http://www.dcmilitary.com/army/pentagram/6...ws/10660-1.html

(LT : If you still don't see what the crux of the matter is here, Probst stood near tree 1 when he dived to the ground, afraid that the jet engine would hit him.
And definitely not near pole 4 or 5. His own words prove it. )

Ryan, James. Speed remark.

He tilted his wings, this way and in this way (Ryan mimics). He kinda did like that. At that point the plane was slow, so that happened concurrently with the engines going down. And then straighten up in sort of suddenly and hit full gas. (Ryan mimics). It was just so loud.(Video)
low bandwidth : http://digipressetmp3.teaser.fr/uploads/488/Ryan.ram
high bandwidth : http://digipressetmp3.teaser.fr/uploads/488/Ryan2.ram

Terronez, Tony

Find this man and his numerous pictures of cars, persons on Route 27, and the Pentagon. He started taking photos after most people in front of him were able to drive on or take an exit through the grass.

LT : Tony Terronez was getting ready for work at The National Theater in downtown Washington, D.C. when he saw the news showing Tower 2 of the World Trade Center on fire. As the events of the morning unfolded, he either watched or listened on the radio to the news of the attack. Because he was not going to his usual job where he is the assistant treasurer for the Eisenhower and Terrace Theaters at The John F. Kennedy Center for the Performing Arts, he would have to drive past the Pentagon and he was running late.

Around 9:40 a.m. I reached the heliport area (beside the Pentagon). So I got about 100 yards or so past the heliport and then all of the sudden I heard this loud screeching sound that just came out of nowhere and it intensified. This huge WHOOSH! And something made me look in my rearview mirror and by the time I looked up I saw the side of the Pentagon explode. I was stunned. It was just so surreal, like something out of a movie, like Die Hard. The side of a building just exploded! As the fireball got higher and higher, you saw this debris go up in the air. I am watching this in my rearview mirror, and then I thought, Oh my God, there is debris coming toward me! So my reaction was, I ducked into my passenger seat and I heard the pitter-patter of pebbles and concrete bouncing off my car. And the next thing you know, I heard this big crash come from somewhere. It sounded like glass being shattered and I thought maybe, at first, it was one of my windows so I popped up to look but everything was fine. But when I looked to the car next to me I realized that something went through (the drivers) rear windshield and shattered it. There was a hole where you could see that something went through it. I put the car in park - it is amazing how instinct takes over because I will never know how it is I kept my foot on the brake when I ducked at the same time. I should have rammed right into the guy in front of me. I got out of the car and the guy in front of me, he and I just looked at each other. It seemed like everybody who was on the road got out of their cars and just looked in disbelief as the fireball just kept getting bigger and bigger. My jaw was dropped, his jaw was dropped, and then, at that point, something about trying to make sure people were OK overtook me and I started going around to the people in the other cars to

[LaBTop]

see if they were all right.I and the guy in front of me went to the car next to me and asked the driver if he was all right and if he was OK to drive. He was in shock, you could tell. He just kept looking straight ahead. He didn't even look back, he was so fixated on looking north. He didn't want to look south at the Pentagon. And it took a couple of times for me and the other guy to say, Can you drive? Hello? Are you OK? Are you OK? And he said, Yeah, I think I can drive. We asked him again, Can you drive? and that time he was more sure and said, Yes, yes, I can drive. Then both I and the guy in front of me looked at his rear windshield and saw what was about a four-inch hole in it and the rest of the window was shattered as if someone took a baseball bat to it. At that point I realized - you see at that point I didn't know it was a plane, I thought it was a missile strike - how dangerous things were. And I just started yelling, We gotta get out of here, to the guy in front of me - and he agreed - and we started yelling at people, Get back in your cars! We gotta get the f--- out of here! And I just kept repeating, Get in your cars! Let's go, let's go! Get the f--- out of here. Go! Go! Go! And people must have listened because down the road you heard more people telling everyone to get in their cars and go. Cars were going over the median on Route 27 because there wasn't any traffic coming southbound toward the Pentagon. People were hopping over it any way they could, on the grass, anything. It was a little scary at that point. Pulling away from the Pentagon there was tons of stuff on the ground, big pieces of metal, concrete, everything. We got up to a certain point and there was this huge piece of something - I mean it was big, it looked like a piece of an engine or something - in the road. And there was somebody, definitely a security guard or maybe a military person, with his car in front of it making sure no one touched it. (...) I looked back and I saw the fire, it was just huge and just incredible. I still cannot believe it. At that point in time, I remembered I had a camera in my trunk. I got off an off-ramp beside the Pentagon and parked my car in the grass and started taking pictures. The whole time I was taking pictures it was so detailed. I could this huge piece of a wheel on fire through the black smoke, but I could not see into the Pentagon itself.
http://www.counseling.org/ctonline/news/amazing1001.htm Defunct!
http://www.ratical.org/ratville/CAH/linksc...amazing1001.htm Works!

Wallace, Terry. Seismic signals not conclusive.

Terry C. Wallace - Southern Arizona Seismic Observatory - I looked pretty hard -- and to be honest I can't find any CONCLUSIVELY above the noise. I calculated an expected magnitude assuming that the impact was on the wall, not vertical (like UA flight), and got a magnitude of .8 The noise at all the stations (closest is 60 km aways) is above this.
http://www.unknownnews.net/cdd060702.html

Press Reports

Maryland Geological Survey. Seismic AA 77 signals too weak. Not UA 93 : Time 10:06:05.

Since the time of plane impact at the Pentagon had often been reported with large scatter, the United States Army contacted us to inquire whether we could obtain an accurate time of the Pentagon attack on September 11, 2001 based upon our seismic network. We analyzed seismic records from five stations in the northeastern United States, ranging from 63 to 350 km from the Pentagon. Despite detailed analysis of the data, we could not find a clear seismic signal. Even the closest station (62.8 km) at Soldier's Delight, Baltimore County, Maryland (SDMD) did not record the impact. We concluded that the plane impact to the Pentagon generated relatively weak seismic signals. However, we positively identified seismic signals associated with United Airlines Flight 93 that crashed near Shanksville, Somerset County, Pennsylvania. The time of the plane crash was 10:06:05 (EDT).
http://www.mgs.md.gov/esic/publications/do...911pentagon.pdf



page last modified: 2010-03-28
V 1.329, Copyright 2003-2010,
911Research.WTC7.net. Site last updated:12/18/10

[LaBTop]

This is of some special interest :

Vin Narayanan

CODE

http://www.pumpshitout.com/audio/vn_072310.mp3

Vin in the audio from the phone interview :
""There were no trees in my way, there was, actually there were no trees there, I was on the road, right beside of where it happened.---Right, so did you see it hit with your own eyes? Yes. The plane flew right over my head and hit the Pentagon.""

Ask Vin if he drove in a dark green, quite new pickup van, and if he was trying to pass to the right side of the stuck traffic in the north bound HOV lane, when he got photographed by Steve Riskus.

Donald R. Bouchoux

CODE

http://www.pumpshitout.com/audio/db_062010.mp3

Donald does only firmly admit in the audio telephone conversation, that he definitely saw the plane impact the Pentagon. No further, f.ex. car-positional questions were asked.

Liebner, Lincoln

CODE

http://www.pumpshitout.com/audio/LL_050210.mp3

Lincoln gets very irritated by the way the questions are asked, and by the stance on 9/11 expressed by the interviewer, he says however several times he saw the plane impact.

CODE

http://s1.zetaboards.com/pumpshitout/topic/3269452/1/

On top of that, we can find something very interesting in the video that Jeffrey Hill a.k.a. "shure" found for us, of a Real Player video interview with Lincoln Liebner from 13 Oct 2001 :
http://www.classbrain.com/artfree/uploads/...st_res_30270.rm

In there, at 00:40,5 from 04:34,1 Lincoln points with his pencil for us on a map of the Pentagon, the attack angle he observed flown by the plane.
Guess what? That's a full head on angle, about 90°.
See this animated GIF that member "onesliceshort" made, of Lincoln moving his pencil towards the wall of the Pentagon :

(IMG:http://i40.photobucket.com/albums/e207/Mercury2/test3.gif)


Most of the time, when people are asked to point out something on a map, they will use their "raw" memory, and not their "organized" memory. They draw then without giving too much thought about it, what they really saw with their own eyes, and not what they have constructed in their mind in many years of influence by TV, radio and newspapers. That organized mind will construct a much different flight path, as was shown to us on TV and the Internet so many times, all confirmed to the official SoC flight path with an angle of attack of 60,25°.

Isn't it amazing then, that we now have Lincoln drawing already on 13 Oct 2001 the real attack angle of nearly 90° towards the west wall of the Pentagon? Yes, it's amazing.

This is the full post of "onesliceshort", and he makes a few very logical remarks :

CODE

http://s1.zetaboards.com/pumpshitout/single/?p=715653&t=3269452

Copy&paste this link into your browser's address bar.

And this is a resourceful link to a lot of meaningful information on the Pentagon attack, the only problem I have with it, is that the author seems to defend the official SoC flightpath.
Nevertheless, lots of good info too :
http://911research.wtc7.net/essays/pentagon/index.html
Title : The Pentagon Attack : What the Physical Evidence Shows.

Everywhere you see pumpshitout, you have to change it to pump_it_out (delete the underscores). (or delete the sh in the center), and copy/paste it to your browser address bar.