Engine Experts?, hi res. FEMA photos Options

[tocarm]

Dear Undertow,

Please understand that in no way I was trying to be disparaging or insulting. It is just that in the past "dealing with the Internet public" with respect to 9-11 related facts and figures, what I thought was 'simple', 'obvious' or even 'common knowledge' to others wasn't at all simple, obvious or common knowledge to many.

There are high school/college students who never picked up a wrench - not knowing which end was the 'box' or 'open end' of a combination wrench!

There are housewives and donut shop owners who didn't know one can fly a US commerical aircraft by "remote control".

There are any number and type of individuals who don't believe jet fuel does not burn hot enough to cause a weakening in the metallurgical grain phase of ASTM construction grade steel using to build skyscrapers such as the WTC Towers.

One of the FACTS these geo-political mass murdering criminals RELY ON both here in the USA as well as throughout the nations of our world is the IGNORNANCE as well as the INDIFFERENCE of those they rule over in order to 1) stay in power and 2) carry out their evil machinations on them and on others.

Why, it was Adolph Hitler who said:

"One must be on guard believing the people to be MORE STUPID than they ACTUALLY ARE!"

And what of Stalin? He simply stated:

"The Lie Is Sacred!"

So, as millions of not-all-their-fault IGNORANT US citizen might have a hard time understanding/comprehending what their Leaders have done to them, either directly or indirectly - the millions of US citizens ARE bringing all of this upon themselves and their children on account of their willful INDIFFERENCE.

It's a moral/spiritual issue at its heart. The Old Testament prophet Hosea put it in this way speaking for God:

"My People PERISH for want of knowledge." - Hosea 4:6

One can TEACH 'ignorant' people certain facts, certain figures, certain truths.
One cannot, however, overcome nor do much about their willfully chosen state of interior INDIFFERENCE.

INDIFFERENCE goes by another name in moral theology: 'Sloth'. And 'Sloth' is one of the Seven Deadly Capital Sins.

- tocarm

[rob balsamo]

Dear MuhammedColumbo,

Alright...alright...let us continue on with the idea that the photos of the combustion chamber case in the wreckage at the Pentagon.....

Please provide govt source that the picture of the combustion case was taken inside the pentagon... date, time and photographer will be helpful.

If you cannot provide the above info, please refrain from assuming it was taken inside the pentagon..

(hint: you wont be able to find the above requested source)


Cheers!
Rob

[tocarm]

Dear Rob,

I hope you do understand that I dont' have to prove jack-diddly squat.

What somebody, ANYBODY on the face of this planet earth have to PROVE TO ME is how do you get the wingspan of a Boeing 757 to "fold" ever so neatly so as to FIT into a 16 foot diamter hold in the side of the Pentagon.

All this other 'stuff' about RB211s, JT8Ds, landing gear, wheel hubs, etc. is all nothing but "techincal gymnastics" we have to undergo WHILE AWAITING AN ANSWER from the 9-11 Commission, from the FBI, from the DOD, from the CIA, from the NTSB, from the FAA, from the DOT, from the White House - why, even from AMERICAN AIRLINES, AAs Chief Pilot, AAs Director of Maintenance, AAs CEO, CFO, COO -

"How do you fold the wingspan of an AA's Boeing 757 so as to fit into a 16 foot diameter hole???"

Better yet, they might be more inclined to answer the question:

"How do you fit 10 LBS. OF BULLSHIT INTO A 1 LB BAG??"

It was the illustrious Fueher of the Third Reich who posited the following:

"All one needs to do in order to make people BELIEVE A LIE is to relentlessly repeat it to them."

- tocarm

[rob balsamo]

I hope you do understand that I dont' have to prove jack-diddly squat.

I agree...

But you are making the claim that the combustion chamber was found inside the pentagon. There isnt any govt source which supports that claim.

Just trying to be technically correct.. dont mind me.. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

I sometimes slip and say "AA77 Flight Data Recorder" when in fact AA77 was never positively identified after radar returns were lost in western WVA.

The NTSB claims the flight data recorder came from AA77... but for all we know, it could be from any multitude of aircraft that were in the area and not specifically from AA77. I have Robin to thank for making me focus on that point.

Basically, the combustion chamber, landing gear and IIRC, the wheel hub pictures you cannot find on ANY govt site to support the govt story. Therefore, all those pictures mean diddly squat.. bullshit.. nothing.

[tocarm]

9-11 & The Pentagon

FACT: Some sort of 'flying thing' hit the Pentagon.

FACT: The 'flying thing' left a HUGE plume of flame.

FACT: The 'flying thing' penetrated several walls of reinforced concrete.

FACT: The 'flying thing' only left a 16' diameter hole in/through the Pentagon.

So...'flying thing' + huge plume + penetrates concrete + 16' diameter hole

Duh...a 9-11 Truth Activist's Question...

What FLIES, is less that 16' wide, travels at incredible velocity and EXPLODES??

9-11 Truth Activist goes to his PC. signs onto the Internet, goes to Google and ASKS! Google answers 9-11 Truth Activist:

http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/missile/row/casom.htm
OR
http://www.fas.org/nuke/intro/cm/index.html
OR
http://www.stormingmedia.us/59/5936/a593683.html

I'm quite certain that a certain AA Captain who flew routes to South America, who was an F-4 pilot, who was a liason with the Pentagon KNOWS EXACTLY which of the foregoing three slammed into the Pentagon and NOT his AA Boeing 757.

Let's do some more 'technical gymnastics'...like calculate the amount of kinetic energy needed to disrupt so many cubic feet of reinforced concrete - and give that answer in Joules. THEN, we can calculate the amount of JOULES available in every last US commerical aircraft type - Airbus, Boeing, MacDonald Douglas, Northrop, Lockheed - and let us NOT FORGET such other 'flying objects' such as the Good Year BLIMP! - traveling at a velocity of 10OKts, 200Kts, 300Kts, 400Kts, 500Kts, etc.

Why can't people just admit to themselves that an act of CRIMINAL MASS MURDER of HIGH TREASON vs. the peoples of the USA as well as Iraq took place back on 9-11-2001.

Shoot...why all of this 'Cloak & Daggar' stuff? Just have Bush, Cheney, Rummy and the whole lot of them simply come on national T.V. and simply ADMIT to the US public that 9-11 was their 'Inside Job'.

The American public will simply gawk....bat their eyes...scratch their heads...mutter something like 'Hmmmm' to themselves....look at each other...AND

GO RIGHT BACK TO THEIR DAILY ROUTINES - watching TV, football games, taking vacations, working out their quick riches real estate deals, pop their Viagara, work at getting their own '6-pack Abs', check out what Oprah Winfrey is whining about, etc.

The US public, the 50 States and their governments, every last Branch of the Federal Government, its officials in the Legislative, Judicial and Executive Branches along with the phalanx/legions of Federal Civil servants AIN'T gonna do jack diddly squat.

I know that. You know that. They know that. Everyone everywhere knows that.
So what is the purpose of all this deception?

The Criminals say to everyone "We did it (9-11). Whatcha gonna do about it?"

The Public answers "Duh...nuttin'"

"The Powers That Be" gotta make things so darn Machiavellian, so darn complicated.

- tocarm

[Cary]

Shoot...why all of this 'Cloak & Daggar' stuff? Just have Bush, Cheney, Rummy and the whole lot of them simply come on national T.V. and simply ADMIT to the US public that 9-11 was their 'Inside Job'.

The American public will simply gawk....bat their eyes...scratch their heads...mutter something like 'Hmmmm' to themselves....look at each other...AND

GO RIGHT BACK TO THEIR DAILY ROUTINES - watching TV, football games, taking vacations, working out their quick riches real estate deals, pop their Viagara, work at getting their own '6-pack Abs', check out what Oprah Winfrey is whining about, etc.

The US public, the 50 States and their governments, every last Branch of the Federal Government, its officials in the Legislative, Judicial and Executive Branches along with the phalanx/legions of Federal Civil servants AIN'T gonna do jack diddly squat.

I know that. You know that. They know that. Everyone everywhere knows that.
So what is the purpose of all this deception?

The Criminals say to everyone "We did it (9-11). Whatcha gonna do about it?"

The Public answers "Duh...nuttin'"

"The Powers That Be" gotta make things so darn Machiavellian, so darn complicated.

Got to agree with you tocarm. The land of the cowards and the home of the enslaved (or something very close) according to Alex Jones.

[tocarm]

Dear Cary,

Somebody fired off several psychology based innuedos at me under the 'Religion' section in what he/she believed would "knock me off my high horse" I suppose. But I highly recommend getting Dr. Erich Fromm's book entitled "To Have Or To Be" and read the page, the section, towards the end of this book dealing with what Dr. Fromm's contemporary 'Mumford' describes as a "megamachine" (you can quickly find that particular page and paragraphs by looking up the subject "megamachine" in the index of the book).

In a nutshell, our 'US nation' (if you want to call what we are living in a 'nation' <g> in the REAL sense of the word) is nothing but what Dr. Fromm alludes to as a 'megamachine'.

The critical "psychological" aspect of people living in a 'megamachine' is their UTTER LOSS OF and UTTER INABILITY TO USE their higher human critical thinking faculties.

In the classic/Scholastic teachings of the Catholic Church's theologians as well as in the manifold writings on the inner human spiritual life of the Church's Saints and mystics, the "higher faculties" we have AS human beings in what is called in Latin as 'Ratio' from which we derive the English word "rational" and which, I might add, we derive the word REASON.

We are "stuck with" living amid a populace of US citizens numbering in the mutliples of MILLIONS who haven't the ability TO PROCESS VITAL INFORMATION about their surroundings, about their environment, about their society, about their Government, about their economy, about their 'finances/money', about just about ANYTHING which is 'real', which is 'tangible', which is 'vital', which is 'valuable', which is IMPORTANT to, for, and about their lives and the way they are LIVING those lives/lifetimes - all on account of having LOST their 'ratio', their 'rationality', their REASON.

Hence, we live in an INsane Society. Nut cases, Crack-pots, Delusionally Minded, Szchinophrenic, Bezerkers, Emotionally and Intellectually UNstable as well as emotionally and intellectually UNpredictable public leaders and well as horde of public followers doing every manner of thing which JEOPARDIZES their own welfare and well being AS WELL AS the welfare and well being of their fellow man.

If we can't even stop these MENTALLY/EMOTIONALLY DEFICIENT/DEFECTIVE individuals and their corporate/organizationally structured human conventions of 'Government' and 'Corporation' to which/of which they belong from using simple, stupid things like AIRPLANES and THERMITE to bring about the deaths of thousands and which has resulting in a 'conventional war' bringing about the deaths of tens and hundreds of thousands, 'WHO?' is going to stop them when they stop playing around with 'pee shooters' and begin to used thermonuclear devises mounted to "remote controlled flying things" such as MISSILES which can traverse thousands of miles and over entire oceans and continents???

We are now well past the point of seeing to simple human JUSTICE using simple human means available to us, i.e. Law Enforcement, the Courts, the Government, etc.. It's now going to have to take an 'Act of God' to pull the whole lot of us out from having to suffer/endure yet GREATER disasters which are going to be pulled off by the likes of the "9-11 Masters Of Disasters"!

- tocarm

[muhammadcolumbo]

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/worthy.gif)

johndoeX,

I liked that (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/worthy.gif)

But, there is a small problem: You didn't yet reached 1 billion repetions. You must still work! (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[muhammadcolumbo]

Dear MuhammedColumbo,

Alright...alright...let us continue on with the idea that the photos of the combustion chamber case in the wreckage at the Pentagon was of a P&W JT8D type.

...

As it is said "A Picture is work a thousand words".

Comparing THAT photo of a JT8D fuel nozzle to the Pentagon combustion case photos speaks for itself.

tocarm,

You are right, the engine can not be a P&W JT8D type. And according to that image I am agree that probably no P&W engines can be used.
(IMG:http://i16.ebayimg.com/05/i/000/80/fd/1c76_1_b.JPG)

But I never told that the engine is a P&W JT8D type! The engine is probably a Rolls-Royce engine.

We must consider the plane used to hit the Pentagon as a specially prepared one. Because the precision required to hit the Pentagon by automatic control requires to use special and precise altitude measurement. That means the aircraft got big modifications. It may also be a recovered plane. Because in that case, they don't need to erase any plane registration. So, it may be equipped with another engine. Because the engines are more modularised equipments which can be exchanged. So we must identify that engine and remove any doubt.

The landing arm must give better precision. Because the landing arm is less designed to be changed. It depends on several parameters and influences the fuselage. It must be original. So it's important to identify that arm. It must be the left (or port) side landing arm. Could you help?

(IMG:http://users.swing.be/muhammadcolumbo/Trains.jpg)

[muhammadcolumbo]

Dear Cary,

In a nutshell, our 'US nation' (if you want to call what we are living in a 'nation' <g> in the REAL sense of the word) is nothing but what Dr. Fromm alludes to as a 'megamachine'.

The critical "psychological" aspect of people living in a 'megamachine' is their UTTER LOSS OF and UTTER INABILITY TO USE their higher human critical thinking faculties.

In the classic/Scholastic teachings of the Catholic Church's theologians as well as in the manifold writings on the inner human spiritual life of the Church's Saints and mystics, the "higher faculties" we have AS human beings in what is called in Latin as 'Ratio' from which we derive the English word "rational" and which, I might add, we derive the word REASON.

tocarm,

I am not american, I am not christian, my community suffers too much from the war that USA and its allie Israel makes to them, some members of my family suffers from these wars, ... I am aware that only a small portion of the american society is guilty for that. In all countries the population is as others: worry about his own problems. And we can not ask them to do more than what they can do.

In that way, people who are able to investigate, to search, to find, ... simply to act in any way to make things better are responsible to do what they are able to do (the islamic name of that kind of action is "jihad", that's the sole meaning, "holy war" as in catolicisme does not exist in islam). If they do not, they must consider themself as complicit with the authors. And my action is only in that way: I can study facts, subjects, I can investigate, ... So I must do it.

In any way, I decided to trust in people, in the population, in human. All populations aim to get peace, to be free. So I believe that sooner or later there will be peace. Currently the "war party" is more powerful, and we have war. To be powerful, the "war party" uses propaganda, advertising, money pressure, ... When people will understand things, the power of "war party"will become smaller.

If we want to be able to act against war, we must keep ourself quite in peace of mind, keep our forces and health. Only in these conditions we can progress and find the truth.

I don't know if you had a look to my web site. I strongly recommend you to read the power point presentation at http://users.swing.be/muhammadcolumbo/indexe.htm

[tocarm]

Dear MuhammedColumbo,

Okay, so you're not an 'American' (or if you prefer, a citizen of the USA) and you are not Chrisitan. I've read the Qu'ran and have had some rather boarding-on-the-line of becoming 'heated' discussions with Moslem co-workers I work with. We haven't killed nor bombed each other off on account of the christology contained in Surah V 'The Cow' if my memory serves me correctly - but I do try to explain to my Moslem co-workers that my US Nation is in direct and overt violation of its own 'Positive Law' as contained in our US Constitution and our Federal Laws contaiend in the United State Code as well as what was termed/refered to in 'Christian Society' of all as 'Natural Law' as well as what my Catholic Christian Faith defines as 'Divine Law'.

I tried to explain to my Moslem co-workers (as a Catholic Christian) what that ALL AMOUNTS UP TO is that my US Nation has deliberately chosen to put itself under God's Divine Justice - or if one prefers - subject to God's Divine Wrath.

Every last person as well as every last nation 'alive' on planet earth has a God Given Right to "Self-defense". That is part and parcel of Christian morality and is implicitly contained in the teachings of Christ on the Divine Law of Love (Divine Law of Charity, if you prefer - even yet the Divine Law of Caring).

Christ Jesus taught "You shall love God with all your might, with all your heart, with all your mind - and you shall love your neighbor AS YOURSELF."

All of us are created by God to "love ourselves". That implies TAKING CARE of our lives, our families, our community and our nation. "Loving your neighbor" implies you will NOT, you will REFUSE to perpetuate any kinds of injury or injustices against him, her, them - whoever they might be. And "loving God" entails getting off one's lazy butt(s) in order to see to it that what God wants done here on this planet earth of His creating GETS DONE!

My freakin' US Government - more correctly, the human INDIVIDUALS who hold positions of office, of power, of authority, of responsibility within my US Nation's "governmental structures" - don't give a FLYIN' FLIP about our Nation's a) Positive Laws, about B) Natural Law nor about my Chrisitan Church's c) Divine Law.

God the Father of we Christian's Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ, SEES, HEARS AND KNOWS ALL ABOUT every last "evil" being hurled against you Middle Eastern peoples - even if you aren't Christian. You might not be Christian - but all of you are STILL HIS CHILDREN.

I'm here in these United States. I 'know/understand' these things. And I am awfully AFRAID of what my US nation is going to have to suffer and endure on account of the relentless evils these inviduals within and throughout this US Nation's governmental structures/organizations at the Hands of God, our Almighty Father, Creator of Heaven and earth.

Christ Jesus instructed thusly "Your ENDURANCE will win you your lives."

Sorry, my dear MuhammedColumbo...I've tried my darnest these past years since 9-11-2001 to get 'my people' to do the RIGHT THING(S) for the sake of our God, His Divine Will and for all the peoples of this 'in mortal danger' world of ours. It's been like taking and trying to reason with ROCKS.

What else can I possibly say except 'Hang In There!'

To be sure, GOD DOES hear the cry of the poor. And PITY all the fat-cat rich men and women strutting about like peacocks on the surface of this planet earth of His Creating who use their wealth, their 'power', their 'positions' to inflict such harm upon their fellow man.

All of then need to begin PLEADING IN PUBLIC 24/7 OUTLOUD for God's Mercy on their miserably impotent mortal hides for what they have done to so many all throughout this last century of human history.

- tocarm

This post has been edited by tocarm: Jan 3 2007, 03:54 PM

[UnderTow]

You guys are KILLING this thread......

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/dunno.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

[tocarm]

"Killing the thread..." Okay, let's put it to sleep.

Dear MuhammedColumbo,

Ya know something? I was mistaken to think JT8Ds were still on Boeing 737-400s.

"737-400 Powerplants"
"Two 22,000lb CFM International CFM56563B2 turbofans, or optional CFM563C1s"
quoting from:
http://www.aircraft-info.net/aircraft/jet_...boeing/737-400/

Photo of a CFM56 fuel nozzle on this page:
http://www.darkmill.com/Aerospace.html

One still has a "Square Peg" and a "Round Hole" no matter how you look at it.

So, you can "put to sleep" this notion of a Boeing 737-400 going into the Pentagon as wel - as perhaps you can "put to sleep" these alleged photos from the Pentagon.

But one "thread we can't seem to kill" (the two of us) is the relentless KILLINGS going on in Iraq, in Afghanistan, in Palestine, etc.

Time to change the subject...

Who won the Louisville vs. Wake Forest COLLEGE FOOTBALL GAME last night?

Is JEN going to have another breakup?

What about PARIS HILTON. Was she caught DRUNK while DRIVING?

- tocarm

[muhammadcolumbo]

tocarm,

Ok, I saw both web pages. But really I think that the engine will prove nothing. Because it can be replaced easily.

Again, the landing arm can lead to a result. I am searching for a picture of the arm until several months. Please let's go on to identify that arm. If you can send me a picture of the arm I can do the required job to identify it. Just try to have the upper end of the arm.

For religious discussions, let's leave it sleeping. When we'll get enough time, I promise you to discuss all your questions. But now, we must be strong and focus that research.

I really think we can identify the plane. Just lets do it.

[rob balsamo]

In order to identify those parts.. i think the first order of business should be to make sure they were in the pentagon. There is no proof showing that those parts were found in the pentagon. Show that proof those parts were actually in the pentagon and we can move on from there...


Also, please stick to topic of the thread and post off-topic issues in the appropriate forum... Thanks

Rob

[tocarm]

I agree with Rob. This thread is a 'Dead End'. And why?

Precisely because there was NO BOEING 757 to hit the Pentagon on 9-11-2001.

If I'm expect to continue on with these 'technical gymnastics' with respect to the wreckage at the Pentagon - I don't want to see ANY 'inside the Pentagon wreckage' photos.

But there IS this one photo - IF I see it - then I'll continue on with all the 'technical gynmastics' that might be required...

...and THAT ONE PHOTO is this...

Show me/provide me a SINGLE PHOTO of the >>outside wall<< of the Pentagon showing me ANY window damage as a result of being struck by the WINGSPAN of any US Commericial Airline flying equipment to both the RIGHT as well as to the LEFT of that 16' foot hole that goes through a couple rings of concrete walls in the Pentagon's rings.

And as for me Rob, it's off to the 'Religion' forum.

- tocarm

[tocarm]

Now I got MY picture. See?

http://911research.wtc7.net/wtc/evidence/p...s_dsnc1775A.jpg

Now 'HOW COMZ?' a big fat Boeing aircraft operated by a US Commerical Air Carrier which slams into the side of a SKYSCRAPER in New York City gets to have its wingspan leave IMPACT MARKS to both the LEFT as well as to the RIGHT of where the fuselage entired the building - and manages to 'crack' a couple of windows in the process and...

...the windows to the LEFT and to the RIGHT of the place where the fuselage of a US Commerical Air Carrier which ('they' tell us) slammed into and penetrated the Pentagon's walls still show their panes of glass intact.

Now I'm a "reasonable guy" - just as naive and gullible as virtually every other last US citizen...

...so maybe somebody out there in Internet videoland (as as well as the folks at th Livermore Jet Propulsion Laboratories and all of the 'valiant USAF warriors' based a Wright-Patterson AFB) can explain to me 'How Is It?' that the LAWS OF PHYSICS here in and around NEW YORK CITY "work one way" and the LAWS OF PHYSICS in and around WASHINGTON, D.C. "work another way"??

...ah...but then I forget...the folks living and working in Washington D.C. have these 'Magickal Mystery Powers Of Federal Fiat' by which they are very much like 'gods'....all of them "creating their own Realities"...

...and there were these people who used to take these funny chemical compounds along with a sugar cube who likewise went about using their "god powers" to "create their own Realities' as well back in the late 60s and early 70s.

- tocarm

[muhammadcolumbo]

...the windows to the LEFT and to the RIGHT of the place where the fuselage of a US Commerical Air Carrier which ('they' tell us) slammed into and penetrated the Pentagon's walls still show their panes of glass intact.

tocarm,

I am not here to criticise anybody. But I just show my own invstigation. I imagine only the fuselage and heavy parts entering the building. Some parts may remain outside, but all parts must leave some traces on the facade. Don't forget, the concrete is only in the columns, remaining parts are not reinfoced conrete. And at the two lower floors, there is no internal walls. Heavy parts will reach C ring wall.

Here is the explanation of civil jetlinerin the Pentagon. You can find very useful and most precise information in the power point presentation on my web page http://users.swing.be/muhammadcolumbo/indexe.htm

But here are some picture:
The entry hole and its right side. The entry holespans from column 13 to C15. The rightmost damaged column is the number 20. C18 is very few damaged. That's due to the rotation of the plane at impact. The red aircraft is a scaled 737-400 to the real scale. For another picture see
Right facade image on 911research.com
(IMG:http://users.swing.be/muhammadcolumbo/Pentagon_737-400_Entry.jpg)

The entry hole and its right side. You can see here that all columns from 8 to 13 are damaged, C9 is buckled, C10 to C13 completely removed.
(IMG:http://911research.wtc7.net/pentagon/evidence/photos/docs/morris1.jpg)

Here I added the B737-400 on the ASCE construction which presents a 757-200 (white plane silhouette) on undamaged columns C21 and C22.
(IMG:http://users.swing.be/muhammadcolumbo/Pentagon_737_Entry.jpg)

This is a 3D construction of the Pentagon with the plane aligned to the entry hole along an angle of 52° from the facade. Its a flat view from behind the plane.
(IMG:http://users.swing.be/muhammadcolumbo/Pentagon_Approach-737.jpg)

Here you can see the aerial view of the approaching 737-400 and follow the damages on the facade.
(IMG:http://users.swing.be/muhammadcolumbo/Pentagon_737_Generator.JPG)

Here is the impact simulation of the plane entering the building and some internal details.
(IMG:http://users.swing.be/muhammadcolumbo/Pentagon_737.jpg)

Here you can find the broken light poles on the path of a 737-400
(IMG:http://users.swing.be/muhammadcolumbo/Pentagon_737_Lights.JPG)

And here you can find the plane position on the fist released image in the pack of 5 images.
http://users.swing.be/muhammadcolumbo/737_Scaling_image1.jpg

More details see My Webpage

If you have any question, feel free to ask. I am ready to reconsider all these explanations.

[tocarm]

Dear MuhammedColumbo,

Ya know, I gotta show you a measure of respect on account of your own personal efforts at 'analysis' with respect to the Pentagon's 9-11 scene. So, since you are a very smart and bright sort of person, I want to share some thoughts of mine own with respect to your personal analysis of the Pentagon's 9-11 photo(s).

I've worked on jet engines and aircraft since 1975. Removed, installed, troubleshot, repaired, built, tested so many jet engines that I no longer even what to service OIL TANKS on jet engines. I'm a "burned out" A&P.

I've had the nasty experience of having a jet engine on its maintenance stand roll over my foot - and THANK GOD the trailer had pnuematic tires or I'd be minus a foot for the rest of my life. And I've been nearly crushed to death during an engine change on account of the wire cabling snapping on the removal/installation gear.

I tell you these couple "war stories" in order to make you appreciate jet engines have significant WEIGHT on account of their having significant MASS. They are truly "substantial" things and are NOT 'weightless/mass-less' images simply seen by the human eye on photographs or in videos.

In physics, there is this very simple equation that is rendered F=m x a, or if you prefer words "FORCE = mass times acceleration"

The MORE mass you have being accelerated, or the MORE ACCELERATION you induce in any mass results in a MULTIPLICATION OF FORCE.

Now a typical jet engine on virtually any commerical airliner WEIGHS IN at well over a TON - and most are now coming in at weights of TWO TONS and greater on account of their increased size and thrust ratings.

I'm not about to quote you what a CFM56 weighs - I really don't care - but its somewheres in the ballpark of 4,000 lbs or two tons.

Take 2 tons of metal and have it moving along at 500 miles per hour (which translates into a certain 'Feet per second' - and you can calculate the total amount of FORCE this engine can induce IF it strikes a stationary object.

If you were to take a 10 pound sledge hammer and swing it a certain amount of 'feet per second', you've have a certain amount of FORCE which could be imparted into/onto some stationary object.

If you took that amount of FORCE from the swinging of your 10 pound sledge hammer and DIVIDED IT INTO the total amount of FORCE contained in a 2 ton piece of metal travelling at 500 miles per hour, you'd come up with an APPROXIMATE NUMBER OF SWINGS OF YOUR SLEDGEHAMMER that would eventually equal the amount of FORCE imparted by your 2 ton jet engine going 500 mph hitting a stationary object.

Now in your photograph, you show the red outline of a Boeing aircraft imposed onto the wall of the Pentagon.

I want for you to LOOK AT the position of the RIGHT ENGINE's red silouhette and LOOK at what is contained in that engine's "Target".

There is this CONCRETE PILLAR.

If I could find about one hundred able bodied men who have the physical conditioning as the result of being CONSTRUCTION WORKERS - and let's say that it would take these 100 men swinging a 10 pound sledgehammer 100 times EACH to approximate the amount of TOTAL FORCE 2 tons of Jet Engine SledgeHammer Metal travelling at 500 mph - and I get these 100 construction workers to take 100 swings with a 10 pound sledge hammer into that SINGLE PILLAR you see pictured within the red silouhette of that airplane's right jet engine - do you think that you are going to see THAT pillar looking as good as it does???

I've seen TWO able bodied/physically conditioned construction workers make MINCE MEAT out of sidewalks and other sorts of masonry work using far fewer strokes of a hand held slegehammer.

- tocarm


- tocarm

This post has been edited by tocarm: Jan 5 2007, 12:39 PM

[muhammadcolumbo]

I want for you to LOOK AT the position of the RIGHT ENGINE's red silouhette and LOOK at what is contained in that engine's "Target".

There is this CONCRETE PILLAR.

If I could find about one hundred able bodied men who have the physical conditioning as the result of being CONSTRUCTION WORKERS - and let's say that it would take these 100 men swinging a 10 pound sledgehammer 100 times EACH to approximate the amount of TOTAL FORCE 2 tons of Jet Engine SledgeHammer Metal travelling at 500 mph - and I get these 100 construction workers to take 100 swings with a 10 pound sledge hammer into that SINGLE PILLAR you see pictured within the red silouhette of that airplane's right jet engine - do you think that you are going to see THAT pillar looking as good as it does???

I've seen TWO able bodied/physically conditioned construction workers make MINCE MEAT out of sidewalks and other sorts of masonry work using far fewer strokes of a hand held slegehammer.

- tocarm

tocarm,

Yes I considered that subject. ,Here is the image again:
(IMG:http://users.swing.be/muhammadcolumbo/Pentagon_737-400_Entry.jpg)

And this 3D construction:
(IMG:http://users.swing.be/muhammadcolumbo/Pentagon_Approach-737.jpg)

You can see that if the plane did not rotated, the right engine must touch the column 16 and enter the building a few at the right of C16.

But we must consider the rotation of the plane at impact time: When the right wing touched the facade at its extremity, the plane will rotale leftward. Right wing extremity will decelerate quickly and the left wing will accelerate also quiclky.

Make the experience with a wood or steel bar of about 1m length. Take it at the middle, and make it hitting an oblique wall. Do it slowely to do not break anything! (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) You will see how the right side will stop very quickly and the left side will accelerate.

I consider (with good reliability, and feel free to criticse, I am ready to reconsider the subject) the right side as being decelerated and stopped very quickly. That can also be verified by the "nearly" undamaged column 18 which is the rotation center. If that is true, that means the right engine decelerated very much before hitting the facade. So its damage on the facade has been reduced. In addition, that rotation made the right engine more rightward. So it passed just at the right side of column 16 and break it and pushed it leftward.

That leftward rotation of the plane and acceleration of the left wing and engine made that the left side were completely damaged. On the left side there is a huge open hole on the ground floor from c8 to C13. The less damaged column is the 9 and it's so hadly damaged that there is no more limestones around and it's not more straight.

Here is a picture made from the left of C8.
(IMG:http://www.911research.com/pentagon/evidence/photos/docs/morris1.jpg)

I think we must believe that there was a jetliner and its wingspan is about 95ft. Si it was not a 757. But we must consider all strong evidences. And the landing arm is a strong evidence and it is different from the 757 arm. That's why I ask to have a good photo showing the left landing arm of a 737-400. We must identify that arm.

(IMG:http://www.911research.com/pentagon/evidence/photos/docs/landinggear.jpg)

If we can prove that this arm is not from a 757 but it is from a 737-400, that can be a huge point. Can you help for that issue?