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Plane Crash In New York State, 9/11 victim's wife aboard.

Omega892R09
post Feb 13 2009, 08:43 AM
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I am not about to hypothesise but others here may be able to fill in any blanks:

Plane crash in NY state kills 49 - BBC
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rob balsamo
post Feb 13 2009, 11:56 PM
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Colgan 3407 Air Traffic Control Audio and Transcript

ATC Audio provided by www.liveatc.net. Transcript provided by http://pilotsfor911truth.org. Edited for pauses and irrelevant air traffic.


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Graeme
post Aug 1 2010, 12:40 PM
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ATC Audio provided by www.liveatc.net. Transcript provided by http://pilotsfor911truth.org. Edited for pauses and irrelevant air traffic.

Let's listen this early Tube posted by Pilots for 9/11-Truth on the day (Friday 13th, 2009), again ...

QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Feb 14 2009, 03:56 AM) *
Colgan 3407 Air Traffic Control Audio and Transcript

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=16320&view=findpost&p=10764620

ATC Audio provided by www.liveatc.net. Transcript provided by http://pilotsfor911truth.org. Edited for pauses and irrelevant air traffic.


Remember this is just the ATC to all aircraft in the area of approach, right? Excuse the lack of terminology. ATC, (after it is established Colgan 3407 has fallen out of the skies) , ask other approach aircraft what their current experience of ice is, and whether they are having any erratic variation on the data from the ILS (Instrument Landing System).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_landing_system

The Cockpit Voice Recorder rescued from the Buffalo Crash site revealed the in-cockpit communications. "We're Down" were the last words, if I remember correctly, and which pretty much sum their experience up. But yes, the Squark transponder and all electronic communications Ground-to-Air / Air-to-Ground for Colgan 3407 seem to have been immediately interrupted and ...

Reports by civilian witnesses from the ground repeatedly mention Engine sounds being erratic 'sputtering' off and on ...
This could refer to all four engines. I'm no air-mechanic, but I presume that in these modern electronic controlled planes total onboard electronics failure would account for these factors:

1) No comms Ground-to-Air / Air-to-Ground.
2) No squark signal on the ATC screens. ('Just dropped off the radar')
2) Global Engine Failure. (all four props)

So, where does the Rime Ice excuse play in this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_rime

The Other Pilots on approach to Buffalo are clearly heard in this tube saying that they've had small build-ups of ice for the last 5 thru 20 miles and the last account says it's peeling off the windscreen, hence not causing difficulty for or affecting anyone else currently on approach to Buffalo. They all seem to be coping.
And that's precisely when we have to pull out the magic 'rabbit in the hat' explanation of pilot incompetance.

If it wasn't for the very convenient out-clause of these allegedly incompetant pilots being unable to cope with a little Rime Ice build-up, then the NTSB may have been forced to investigate this Watershed Aircrash more intently, looking at reasons for the total outages I noted above.

But was there a total electronics outage onboard Colgan 3407? That's the remaining question which I've NEVER seen addressed by anyone. Was that data registered in the FDR (Flight Data Recorder)? Does that equipment run off autonymous systems? Excuse me if I've missed something on other posts regarding that.

Was there a power / control / communications & primary electronics outage on this plane?
If provable not, then we're home and dry aren't we. Lucky us!

This post has been edited by Graeme: Aug 1 2010, 12:45 PM
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starviego
post Oct 6 2010, 12:09 AM
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Here is more evidence that engine failure, not pilot error, was the true factor in this crash:


File ID 417219 from the NTSB Dockets, ''Powerplant Group field notes,'' does seem to indicate that the left prop may have thrown three 'counterweight' assemblies right before the crash, which may have caused some of the shaft bearings to disintegrate(or vise versa). Remember a few of the ear-witnesses heard a sound like metal grinding on metal.


No 1 engine-

pg2of23
-Three of the six counterweights remained attached to their respective propeller blade outer sleeve, while the other three had become separated and were not recovered by the Powerplant Group.

pg7of23
The No.15 roller bearing, located on the aft side of the bull gear, was present and the cage was fractured with two(2) of the roller elements missing. ...the No.19 roller bearing rolling elements were visible and one(1) roller was missing. ....The No.2.5 roller bearing cage was still attached to the front of the LP shaft. The cage appeared intact but all the roller elements were missing.

pg8of23
The outer diameter of the PT(power turbine) shaft exhibited circumferential rub mark(s) from the fractured end to almost the shoulder where the shaft diameter changes.

pg10of23
The three(3) blade positions sequentially around about the top(as the propellor was situated on the ground) had complete sets of counterweight assemblies(counter weight arm, counterweight, and rear collar) still attached, while the three(3) blade positions that were buried in the ground were missing their complete counterweight assembly.

It should be noted that none of the aforementioned damage was reported for the No.2 engine.


A few of the eyewitness accounts were consistent with an engine fire--

File ID 431227
pg4of131, Maha Abdallah
Before the plane impacted the ground, Abdallah noticed sparks coming from the plane.

pg9of131, Stanley Barnas
...he saw a bright orange flash out of the living room window. ...Barnas is 100percent certain that he saw the bright orange flash before the crash.

pg15of131, Cindy Borgosz
...saw a bright orange glow through the west window.... the orange glow was not flickering. ....the orange glow diminished, then there was a large boom and an orange 'mushroom cloud.''

pg22of131, Patricial Burns
...noticed flames coming from the rear of the aircraft.

pg96of131, Kaitlin Smith
...she saw a red/orange light in the sky.... after the flash, the sky darkened and then she heard a big bang.



They said they never found the missing counterweights. Maybe they should have looked harder--

pg27of131, Mary Cimato
The Cimato's also pointed out three large holes in a pond located behind their house... ... The previous day the entire pond was frozen over, and the morning after the crash they observed holes in the ice.


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Posts in this topic
- Omega892R09   Plane Crash In New York State   Feb 13 2009, 08:43 AM
- - DoYouEverWonder   The wish of a 9/11 widow Posted 12/5/04 A member ...   Feb 13 2009, 09:11 AM
- - Ricochet   The lawsuit was not about money, it was for accoun...   Feb 13 2009, 11:54 AM
- - JFK   ATC Audio - http://event.liveatc.net/kbuf/KBUF-Feb...   Feb 13 2009, 12:49 PM
- - jo56   One of Buffalo crash victims met with Obama earlie...   Feb 13 2009, 02:13 PM
- - grizz   A little more information: Beverly Eckert, Bereav...   Feb 13 2009, 02:31 PM
- - grizz   Voices of September 11 My Silence Cannot Be Bo...   Feb 13 2009, 03:20 PM
- - painter   I must say, this is all bloody suspicious coming o...   Feb 13 2009, 04:32 PM
|- - datars   QUOTE (painter @ Feb 10 2009, 12:32 PM) I...   Feb 15 2009, 11:52 PM
- - Ricochet   Final communications. Source. http://network.natio...   Feb 13 2009, 04:54 PM
|- - Graeme   QUOTE (Ricochet @ Feb 13 2009, 08:54 PM) ...   Feb 18 2009, 06:34 PM
- - rob balsamo   The above transcript has alot of errors. For those...   Feb 13 2009, 05:46 PM
- - rob balsamo   ILS 23 KBUF (pdf)   Feb 13 2009, 05:55 PM
- - paranoia   http://www.colganair.com/ http://www.colganair.com...   Feb 13 2009, 06:39 PM
- - paranoia   a list of some of the others onboard the plane: ...   Feb 13 2009, 06:47 PM
- - paranoia   just saw this posted by SmokingGunz over at LCF: ...   Feb 13 2009, 08:08 PM
- - Trismagistus   I'm neither a pilot or an activist, but a rese...   Feb 13 2009, 09:34 PM
- - JFK   http://www.buffalonews.com/home/story/578574.html ...   Feb 13 2009, 10:01 PM
|- - kgray1   QUOTE (JFK @ Feb 13 2009, 09:01 PM) http:...   Mar 20 2009, 02:57 AM
- - amazed!   Another one bites the dust...Too Bad. I guess it ...   Feb 13 2009, 10:58 PM
- - Trismagistus   I watched the news tonight. They are missing the o...   Feb 13 2009, 11:26 PM
- - rob balsamo   Colgan 3407 Air Traffic Control Audio and Transcri...   Feb 13 2009, 11:56 PM
|- - Graeme   ATC Audio provided by www.liveatc.net. Transcript ...   Aug 1 2010, 12:40 PM
|- - starviego   Here is more evidence that engine failure, not pil...   Oct 6 2010, 12:09 AM
|- - Graeme   QUOTE (starviego @ Oct 6 2010, 04:09 AM) ...   Nov 11 2010, 12:59 PM
|- - starviego   You can access the documents here: http://www.nts...   Nov 17 2010, 12:39 PM
|- - Graeme   QUOTE (starviego @ Nov 17 2010, 04:39 PM)...   Nov 24 2010, 11:57 AM
|- - Graeme   QUOTE (starviego @ Nov 17 2010, 04:39 PM)...   Nov 24 2010, 12:32 PM
- - rob balsamo   44 guests logged onto this thread currently. Welco...   Feb 14 2009, 12:57 AM
- - painter   Source: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/africa/7890455....   Feb 14 2009, 06:38 PM
- - Trismagistus   At 2300 feet heading 2-6-0 3407 was instructed to ...   Feb 14 2009, 07:02 PM
- - captsly   NOTE WHAT IS SAID AT 31 MINUTES AND ZERO SECONDS.....   Feb 14 2009, 07:37 PM
|- - JFK   QUOTE (captsly @ Feb 14 2009, 06:37 PM) N...   Feb 14 2009, 07:47 PM
- - rob balsamo   Welcome to the forum captsly. Please try to post...   Feb 14 2009, 07:46 PM
|- - captsly   QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Feb 14 2009, 06:46 P...   Feb 14 2009, 11:29 PM
|- - captsly   QUOTE (captsly @ Feb 14 2009, 10:29 PM) s...   Feb 14 2009, 11:46 PM
- - DoYouEverWonder   NYT - In Plane Crash, Loss of Momentum Still a Mys...   Feb 14 2009, 09:55 PM
- - albertchampion   when i was flying my baron, icing was the scariest...   Feb 15 2009, 01:57 AM
- - amazed!   Having never flown the Dash 8, it's a safe bet...   Feb 15 2009, 11:47 AM
- - Trismagistus   In reading the last few posts Im in agreement and ...   Feb 15 2009, 02:15 PM
|- - KP50   QUOTE (Trismagistus @ Feb 16 2009, 07:15 ...   Feb 15 2009, 04:21 PM
|- - Omega892R09   QUOTE (KP50 @ Feb 13 2009, 07:21 PM) I wa...   Feb 15 2009, 06:17 PM
- - DoYouEverWonder   QUOTE Fatal US plane 'was on autopilot' ...   Feb 15 2009, 06:34 PM
|- - nitatutt   The local weather was odd on the 12th. We are al...   Feb 15 2009, 07:35 PM
- - albertchampion   there are many incorrect aspects of this flight re...   Feb 15 2009, 08:48 PM
- - richard cranium   The ABC affiliate here in southern California keep...   Feb 15 2009, 09:26 PM
- - albertchampion   the "on" autopilot aspect of this story ...   Feb 15 2009, 10:07 PM
- - JFK   A cockpit view of the Q-400 from bombardier - http...   Feb 16 2009, 12:41 AM
- - rob balsamo   Steve Nieman is one of our core members and is a C...   Feb 16 2009, 01:28 AM
|- - JFK   QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Feb 16 2009, 12:28 A...   Feb 16 2009, 10:12 AM
|- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (JFK @ Feb 16 2009, 09:12 AM) You a...   Feb 16 2009, 11:38 AM
|- - JFK   QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Feb 16 2009, 10:38 A...   Feb 16 2009, 12:00 PM
- - paranoia   im far from anything even remotely close to being ...   Feb 16 2009, 03:37 AM
- - rob balsamo   Although i hate to do this prior to seeing a repor...   Feb 16 2009, 04:18 AM
|- - paranoia   QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Feb 16 2009, 03:18 A...   Feb 17 2009, 01:05 AM
- - rob balsamo   Found these on another board.... QUOTE METARS for...   Feb 16 2009, 04:44 AM
- - datars   Good Post!!! Nice input from everyone....   Feb 16 2009, 11:19 AM
- - amazed!   This is a classic stall/spin accident, with severa...   Feb 16 2009, 04:06 PM
- - paranoia   ETA: some wreckage that survived: (one of the ...   Feb 17 2009, 01:22 AM
- - rob balsamo   Saw the vid.... interesting... thanks.   Feb 17 2009, 01:40 AM
- - Omega892R09   For those interested in Buffalo/Niagara airport de...   Feb 17 2009, 12:49 PM
- - grizz   Welcome to Pilots!   Feb 18 2009, 06:44 PM
|- - Graeme   QUOTE (grizz @ Feb 18 2009, 10:44 PM) We...   Feb 18 2009, 07:01 PM
- - painter   Wow. Yes, welcome to the forum Graeme   Feb 18 2009, 07:02 PM
- - rob balsamo   ILS Approach plate for KBUF Runway 23. QUOTE (rob ...   Feb 18 2009, 07:18 PM
- - Leslie Landry   FSB reports are stating today that American fascis...   Mar 1 2009, 11:02 PM
|- - Leslie Landry   for some reason..it wont let me post the rest of t...   Mar 1 2009, 11:13 PM
- - Cheri   It is said that flying is safer than driving...wit...   Mar 1 2009, 11:16 PM
- - amazed!   Quite a web you weave LL. Fascinating stuff. If ...   Mar 1 2009, 11:19 PM
- - grizz   Well, if we're going to invoke Sorcha Faal, I...   Mar 1 2009, 11:45 PM
- - Cheri   I find it interesting that out of a group of 911 t...   Mar 1 2009, 11:51 PM
- - rob balsamo   Preliminary is out from NTSB. Not much as expected...   Mar 2 2009, 12:33 AM
|- - Graeme   QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Mar 2 2009, 05:33 AM...   Apr 3 2009, 03:52 PM
- - dMole   A belated hello and welcome Graeme.   Mar 2 2009, 12:53 AM
- - albertchampion   yes, i suppose a sudden flat spin of only downward...   Mar 2 2009, 02:19 AM
- - amazed!   Grizz I am skeptical of the blog you offered. It...   Mar 2 2009, 10:51 AM
|- - grizz   QUOTE (amazed! @ Mar 2 2009, 06:51 AM...   Mar 2 2009, 10:58 AM
- - amazed!   Thanks Grizz.   Mar 2 2009, 11:12 AM
- - rob balsamo   Welcome kgray! By the way folks.. be nice to ...   Mar 20 2009, 03:01 AM
|- - kgray1   QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Mar 20 2009, 02:01 A...   Mar 20 2009, 03:04 AM
|- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (kgray1 @ Mar 20 2009, 03:04 AM) Th...   Mar 20 2009, 03:14 AM
- - dMole   Hello and welcome kgray1. I'm sorry to hear o...   Mar 20 2009, 03:04 AM
- - rob balsamo   QUOTE NTSB Advisory National Transportation Safet...   Apr 28 2009, 12:17 AM
- - Ricochet   Flight 3407 and swine flu connection. FWIW. http:/...   Apr 28 2009, 02:03 PM
- - paranoia   "Buffalo crash: Pilots acted 'just opposi...   May 12 2009, 11:45 PM
- - albertchampion   it is an odd transcript of the cvr. and the propo...   May 14 2009, 12:33 AM
- - Graeme   I see that NTSB are publishing on 3407 already, I ...   May 14 2009, 08:23 PM
- - Graeme   Please analyse and reply with your informed knowle...   May 14 2009, 09:30 PM
- - albertchampion   you are correct about one aspect of this: the alac...   May 14 2009, 09:30 PM
|- - DoYouEverWonder   QUOTE (albertchampion @ May 14 2009, 09:3...   May 14 2009, 09:44 PM
- - rob balsamo   Unfortunately i missed this when it was published ...   Jul 29 2009, 01:48 AM
- - rob balsamo   Colgan Landing Stall Profile http://www.ntsb.gov/...   Jul 29 2009, 02:13 AM
- - paranoia   just wanted to add this overlooked coincedence/iro...   Feb 8 2010, 12:34 AM
- - starviego   If you read the reports of the witnesses on the gr...   Apr 8 2010, 01:11 AM
|- - Graeme   QUOTE (starviego @ Apr 8 2010, 06:11 AM) ...   Jul 28 2010, 05:36 PM
- - truthmatters   I watched the video of the animation. At first I w...   Jul 29 2010, 10:18 PM
- - amazed!   I'm guessing you're not a pilot, and thus ...   Nov 25 2010, 12:09 PM
|- - Graeme   QUOTE (amazed! @ Nov 25 2010, 04:09 P...   Nov 29 2010, 12:55 PM
- - Graeme   I just figured out another reason why I felt a str...   Nov 30 2010, 02:10 PM
- - starviego   The names of 48 of the 50 dead victims were releas...   Dec 1 2010, 10:01 AM
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