Video Shows Concrete Core Wall Falling Into Core., No steel core columns ever seen in the core area. Options

[lunk]

We know that Thermite was used in the collapse of the towers,
We know that there were explosions, too indicating that there was more than just Thermite.
We were told that the twin towers were designed specifically, so that an aircraft could not bring them down, or hurricane force winds.
Any engineer worth their salt, is going to design these properties into these huge structure.
Why would this particular design property (plane proof buildings) be highlighted in the video of the construction of the towers?

So I think it suspicious, that the official story is that planes caused the towers to collapse.
And I'm looking for possible reasons that this may be so.

If, and I'll say if, the towers were built to be demolished,
All these little pieces fit.
Now, thermite is quite stable and could have been set in key structural locations
during construction, with the future demolition in mind, and of course, this could never be
released, because nobody in their right mind would rent a space in a building that was "wired for demolition".
So it remained a secret.
When the time neared for the demolition, they probably were a little concerned that the old thermite in the building, may not be enough, so they added more demolitions, and quite likely,
because of all the fine dust, something much bigger, too.

There were 24 Canadians that died that day,
and this is the justification used, for Canada to be in combat in Afghanistan,
where over 4 times that number have been killed.

The twin towers could have been full with 50 000 people when they collapsed.
...but that's a lot of hush money for their surviving families, isn't it?

We know it must have been carefully planned in advance,
it's really just a question of how long.


imo, lunk

(Edit) deleted my OT comment

This post has been edited by lunk: Dec 30 2008, 06:10 PM

[Christophera]

It is neither 'minimalisation' to say it was Controlled Demolition, nor is it 'too much truth'.

It is OBVIOUS.

And the morons who don't see a Controlled Demolition of WTC1,2+7 even after the obvious has been shown to them and who are unable to comprehend, that CT means Inside Job, deserve starving in the coming economic desaster.

Oops, I guess "Catastrophizing" is closer.

7. Catastrophizing: Exaggerated importance of self's failures and others successes.

Doesn't matter how and when the CT was planned and set up. We'll never know.
Fact is: It was Controlled Demolition!

But "Minimizing" applies too.

4. Minimizing: Perceiving one or opposite experiences (positive or negative) as absolute and maintaining singularity of belief to one or the other.

These cognitive distortions come from the discipline of cognitive therapy and so need to be adapted to social, conversational uses as one might use them to explain their position. Everybody uses them, and sometimes they are justified. They are okay to use when trying to do something good and right, but evasion with them does not work well or reasonably.

We share your fundamental position, so I don't criticize that. I criticize the open pessimism and despair. That is exactly what the infiltrators of the government and perpetrators of 9-11, want. That is their goal. All you have to do to oppose them is keep trying and working for what is right.

It is difficult. 9-11 and the post 9-11 psyops are designed to take one group of people beliefs and set them in opposition to anothers. On the web you can't tell much about the other person so alot of nonsense gets expressed and since the opposition to 9-11 truth on the web is either paid or delusional, the most important thing is alliance based in the recognition of the value of our Constitution.

As long as gov is following laws, we are okay. If a law was broken by gov, they have to go back and make it right for us to exist in a Constitutional society. Things are, ........... or they are not.

[amazed!]

Well, I'll tell you guys, I just finished watching a few videos at UTube about numerology and bloodlines and stuff, and suddenly the events at WTC make alot of sense.

Eisenhower's warnings about the MIC notwithstanding.

But I still stand by the esoteric description.

That average american still thinnks it was 19 arabs. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/cheers.gif)

[lunk]

Still thinks?

I'm just beginning to learn how much I didn't think,
...or perhaps, should have thought about, more deeply.

imo, lunk

This post has been edited by lunk: Dec 30 2008, 06:31 PM

[Christophera]

Still thinks?

I'm just beginning to learn how much I didn't think,
...or perhaps, should have thought about, more deeply.

imo, lunk

It is difficult. 9-11 and the post 9-11 psyops are designed to take one group of people beliefs and set them in opposition to anothers. On the web you can't tell much about the other person so alot of nonsense gets expressed and since the opposition to 9-11 truth on the web is either paid or delusional, the most important thing is alliance based in the recognition of the value of our Constitution.

We often percieve information in the light our society casts upon it. The lighting can change, suddenly the thoughts about the info change, our opinions change.

With unity in democracy our opinions can control our world.

[Christophera]

This post was one I made at another board seems to have made an impact there, so I'm cross posting it here

Frank Greening says that E1 is the energy required to bring about the collapse of one floor. He goes on to say:

Unfortunately there appears to be no simple way to calculate E1 from first principles since the collapse of just one floor of a WTC tower is an extremely complex process involving the bending and fracturing of numerous support structures.

And those supposed support structures would have interconnecting horizontal and diagonal braces w/gussetts. ALL methods of calculation determining bending and fracturing the vertical support MUST utilize the dimensions and locations of the braces or it is fraudulent.

The plans from silverstein have NO DETAIL of the interconections between supposed core columns or the "numerous support structures".

The 9-11 images NEVER show vertical OR diagonal OR horizontal braces.

GZ wreckage NEVER shows vertical OR diagonal OR horizontal braces connected to what are identified as "core columns" (actually elevator guide rail support steel).

Therefore it is COMPLETELY irresponsible to even pretend that such calculations can represent reality in any way, shape, or form PARTICUARLY when ample evidence exists showing ANOTHER structure was present and acting as the towers core AND there is circumstancial evidence that officials are aiding a FEMA deception regarding the structure.

This post has been edited by Christophera: Jan 19 2009, 11:54 AM

[SwingDangler]

We have never had an "official" investigation. What we had was a charade conducted by infiltrators of government. As far as I can tell the US government has always been infiltrated and since 1950 the infiltration has become more and more complete. There has been nothing "official" except conspiracy.


Please, separate my work from Gage. He has not commented on any of the evidence of the concrete core and has not provided
photographic evidence of the supposed steel core columns in the core area from 9-11.

America needs his help badly and he will not even respond to the many emails with links to images I've sent let alone show with evidence the steel core columns he presents as fact while disseminating the fake plans as if they were real. He has no feasible explanation for anything. Just big contracts and speaking engagements.

He promised a public apology for banning me from the AE message board on bogus premise similar to what painter responsibly provided.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....showtopic=12135

Then he refused to do it and stated that the reason he was refusing was for a completely different reason than what had happened. Bogus again! No accountability there. Questionable mental performance instead.

A medical group learned of this and the other bannings as well as the unaccontabilty to evidence shown by quasi leaders and started a petition for the public to show their need for evidence and facts by supporting that my posting privilages be reinstated where I've been banned and quasi leaders provide proof/evidence supporting their beliefs and address the evidence for a concrete core.

http://www.petitionspot.com/petitions/WorldTradeCenter911

Apparently social fears are so great that no one wants to sign the petition because it has no signatures yet. We will NEVER get the truth with this behavior.

Here is a link to evidence of the steel core colums that you state has no evidence for....-Articles from Engineering News Record

Additional photographs for steel core colums.

The NIST report has been debunked to death to show that the investigation was a farce, so there is no need to muddy the waters with the idea of concrete core columns when the historical record shows otherwise. Cement or no cement, the towers do not suffer a global collapse without some additional energy input most likely in the form of explosives.

This post has been edited by SwingDangler: Jan 19 2009, 01:19 PM

[Christophera]

The NIST report has been debunked to death to show that the investigation was a farce, so there is no need to muddy the waters with the idea of concrete core columns when the historical record shows otherwise. Cement or no cement, the towers do not suffer a global collapse without some additional energy input most likely in the form of explosives.

The historical record supports FEMA and the supposed steel core columns. It does misrepresent what are elevator guide rail support steel and are shown at construction with butt plates as connections between pieces. Butt plates have very little lateral strength and are totally inaddequate for what is required for a "core column". Such column MUST have 100% fillet welds, and if they existed, be visible in the core area on 9-11 with their needed diagonal and horizontal bracing and associated gussetts strengthening the intersections. We have many clear pictures looking through the core area and they always show the core to be empty.

I assert, very strongly, with supporting evidence, that there is a conspiracy to decieve the truth movement because the WTC documents, ....... and such documents for governmental centers always include the plans, were taken illegally by the NYC mayor and placed in his private warehouse. Courts, ignoring the freedom of information laws will not force the return of the public documents to the public. This collusive act makes the deception of obsolete plans from silverstein, a deeply interested party, the only source for structural information.

Additionally, steel core columns cannot be easily cut with explosives AND, doing so, because of the density of steel, completely changes the character of the explosion. Accordingly, the only core that can be seen in evidence from 9-11 is a concrete core. Concrete can be instantly fractured to fall easily, freely. Also, th historical record from Newsweek magazine on September 13, 2001 has L.E. Robertson, the lead engineer identifying a concrete core.

This post has been edited by Christophera: Jan 19 2009, 04:36 PM

[lunk]

There must have been lots of copies of the original blueprints, on site,
when the towers were being built.
There should be some copies still around, somewhere.

Do you think that the twin towers could have been designed,
with the idea of future demolition in mind?

[Christophera]

There must have been lots of copies of the original blueprints, on site,
when the towers were being built.
There should be some copies still around, somewhere.

Do you think that the twin towers could have been designed,
with the idea of future demolition in mind?

Absolutely built as engineered, precision concrete explosive concrete containers incorporated into the tower structures. Such is the only possible way that free fall to the ground of all structure, total pulverization and superfine dust could have been created.

ON EDIT:There was immense secrecy associated with the construction. Separate plans for the core and the surrounding exoskeleton of steel structure. In fact, it was so bad that the first concrete contractor abandoned his contract because plans were checked out on monday and returned on friday, after threatening to sue. In the beginning the port authority would not allow plans to leave the site construction trailer with their security guard watching them. The next left after about the 90th floor , ....... or some point, not sure. Paul Laffoley indicates a Saudi contractor took over at that point and I believe I remember that being stated in the documentary, "The Engineering and Construction of the Twin Towers".
guliani has the plans in his warehouse, The Fortress.

http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...752C0A9649C8B63

This post has been edited by Christophera: Jan 19 2009, 05:06 PM

[lunk]

Do you think that they may have added
more explosives, Thermate, and/or something else,
just before the demolition,
to make sure, there was total collapse?

[Christophera]

Do you think that they may have added
more explosives, Thermate, and/or something else,
just before the demolition,
to make sure, there was total collapse?

The bombing in 1993 appears to have created an opportunity to add thermite to the perimeter columns bases and the interior box columns at the base in the 1st sublevel and the ground floor. Masses of molten steel corroborate this. Without that the 5 inch thick columns would have been standing surrounding the core area and perimeter columns trees also would have been standing greatly increasing the time needed to clean up.


There are also reports of drilling and other construction sounds on some floors. WTC2 had molten metal pouring out from the NE corner just prior to collapse. I feel this was done to create some difference in the dmo otherwise they would have been identical to the observer.

This post has been edited by Christophera: Jan 19 2009, 05:11 PM

[lunk]

1993 bombings...
If the van filled with explosives was parked closer to the central core,
would this have caused that tower to collapse back then?
(this seems to be the excuse, for why, that a tower did not collapse, in 1993.)

[Christophera]

1993 bombings...
If the van filled with explosives was parked closer to the central core,
would this have caused that tower to collapse back then?
(this seems to be the excuse, for why, that a tower did not collapse, in 1993.)

Much more than collapse. Boom, the whole tower, foundation to top, the core, goes off all at once.

Because of that issue, and the molten steel in the basement, I researched the 1983 bombing and found that the FBI had supervised it as a sort of sting on the terrorists. Originally, fake explosives were planned, a dry run thing, not real clear about that. Eventually the FBI had said "park the van next to the core wall", in the depositions of the FBI it confirmed the final directions to the bombers were to move away from the core and depend on the damage to the floor diaphrams to cause maximum destruction.

Right after the complex was leased to silverstein there were news stories about long lines at the towers because of insurance comapny required elevator inspections. People working on lower floors had to travel over their floor and come back down because of elevator shafts being shut down. I theorize this was needed to put the appropriate delays in the rebar circuit of the core which just was slightly faster than free fall in descent.
From the 1990 documentary, "The Engineering and Construction of the Twin Towers" I learned that that there were inspection ports created no the inside of the core by the inner breakdown steel form used to form the concrete core walls. The DOC noted that the fixtures of that form projecting outwards to make the inspection ports, had to be adjusted as the core went upwards. Only 40 vertical can be cast at one time because of hydrostatic presue on outer form wood. Then as the core walls went up, the depth to the rebar, which was the target for inspections, reduced. WTC 1 core had a taper to the outside and the inside wall was plumb, top to bottom.

Below the taper can be seen by the wider space of light between the core wall and the interior box column, which must be plumb, located just outside the core, as the tower goes up. Compare that to WTC 2 which had a redesigned concrete core configuration that was stronger while also allowing the hallways crossing the core to double and created a lobby with elevators that opened outwards whereas above the lobby the only access to elevators was from inside the core.

WTC 2 has parallel core walls above the 43rd where massive HVAC and elevator equipment was located. WTC 1 was similarly heavy below he 43rd but only had 1 hallway per floor in perpendicularly opposing directions. That changed to 2 in opposing directions somewhere above the 43rd, not sure.

(IMG:http://algoxy.com/psych/images/wtccoreshilouette.jpg)

The The sunrise silhouette image is very interesting for me because I work in construction and notice concrete surfaces or how they were cast, along with the evolving techniques that are most rapidly developed in highway projects. I noticed that steel forms can make a concrete surface so smooth it can act as a effective mirror for sunlight and blind motorists. The The sunrise silhouette shows WTC 1, not photographed from due west of the towers hallways, so the light is reflected off of the inside of the core wall in the lower parts, then above, because it changed perhaps at the top sky lobby section, to having 1 hallway in each direction per floor rather than only 1 perpendicularly opposed with each floor.

[amazed!]

Christophera

I had not read the Newsweek piece before. That does make your argument rather persuasive.

Judging from the statements he made to Newsweek, it almost sounds like Robertson was in on it.

And I suppose if your theory is valid, he would be?

[lunk]

Christophera

I had not read the Newsweek piece before. That does make your argument rather persuasive.

Judging from the statements he made to Newsweek, it almost sounds like Robertson was in on it.

And I suppose if your theory is valid, he would be?

from above:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...752C0A9649C8B63

Aides and friends of Rudolph W. Giuliani, however, decided that he deserved better. So, on Dec. 24, just a week before leaving office, Mr. Giuliani's staff hammered out an unusual agreement with the city's Department of Records and Information Services, giving custody of all of his mayoral papers and artifacts to a private nonprofit group that Mr. Giuliani will control.

All of the records from Mr. Giuliani's eight years in office -- thousands of files from City Hall and Gracie Mansion, appointment books, photographs, audio cassettes and other relics -- are now stashed in a rented storage facility in Queens called the ''fortress,'' and a private archival consulting firm is drawing up plans for how to showcase them.

"giving custody of all of his mayoral papers and artifacts to a private nonprofit group that Mr. Giuliani will control."
I guess this includes the original blueprints for the WTC?

[Christophera]

Christophera

I had not read the Newsweek piece before. That does make your argument rather persuasive.

Judging from the statements he made to Newsweek, it almost sounds like Robertson was in on it.

And I suppose if your theory is valid, he would be?

I think he was used to create plans that were obsolete before they were drawn with consideration of what was learned by the Tacoma narrows bridge collapse.

Steel Bridge flexes and collapses in 42 MPH wind

Badly used. I actually have great sympathy for him because after Yamasaki overode the original steel core column design, Robertson got fully behind the concrete core as much as he could and faithfully saw the buildings completed. THEN, silverstein used his obsolete plans to deceive the nation in private, very interested support for FEMA's deception by silverstein. It really sucks. If I was him, I would feel like sh*t. Major, dynamic grief, angst. He's certainly, logically, seen threats against family members if he speaks up.

That is why I feel this unregistered post is actually him. He appreciates what I'm doing, wants to help but cannot. Takes a chance and makes an ambigous post on April fools day.

http://forum.physorg.com/index.php?showtopic=3108&view=findpost&p=78752

Leslie E. Robertson
Posted: Apr 1 2006, 06:33 PM

Christophera is correct in stating that the Twin Towers were constructed with a concrete core. Although in my original design the core was to be a steel framed one that decision was overridden by Minoru Yamasaki the architect.

That core should have resisted the airplane impacts AND the fires. I have said nothing for four and a half years but can remain silent no longer. My belief is that only explosives could have caused WTC 1 & WTC 2 to collapse the way they did on September 11, 2001.

Leslie E. Robertson
Director Leslie E. Robertson Associates, R.L.L.P. and lead engineer of the World Trade Center

This post has been edited by Christophera: Jan 19 2009, 09:51 PM

[Christophera]

from above:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html...uoteEEnd-->


"giving custody of all of his mayoral papers and artifacts to a private nonprofit group that Mr. Giuliani will control."
I guess this includes the original blueprints for the WTC?

That I would assume were the only construction drawings that were available to the public through an accountable public entity originally. Now, no longer. But hey, rudy has been knighted (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/laughing1.gif)

The port authority somehow seems to be completely protected and shielded from inquiry, but I would bet they have the originals that were actually used for the concrete core construction.

This post has been edited by Christophera: Jan 19 2009, 07:31 PM

[dMz]

Adding hyperlink of Leslie E. Robertson post on page 627 of PhysForum for convenience:

http://www.physforum.com/index.php?showtop...amp;#entry78752

[2knives]

"Christophera is correct in stating that the Twin Towers were constructed with a concrete core."

Leslie E. Robertson
Director Leslie E. Robertson Associates, R.L.L.P. and lead engineer of the World Trade Center[/i]

Whether this is Robertson or not, the pre 9/11 documentary evidence is on the side of there being a core.

The Nova special on why the WTC towers fell went out of its way to cover this up.

This post has been edited by 2knives: Feb 19 2009, 07:57 PM