What If We Are Gods?, Hypothetically speaking. Options

[tocarm]

Human (Spiritual) Consciousness & Cause and Effect

One of the saddest things nowadays with people who have 'scient-ness', who have 'consciousness', who have 'awareness' is that they move, live and have their being within an All not of their making/creating and they cannot recognize with their 'scient-ness', their 'consciousness', their 'awareness' that ALL OF US live, move and have our being within an 'All' that relentlessly operates under a CAUSE & EFFECT principle. So much for their supposedly smug 'mastery' and self reliancewith and upon their finite human 'scient-ness'!

I am simply stating obvious ontological facts here.

All created things within this "All" not of our making/creating have A PURPOSE.

To employ any matter of human action/activity along with any created 'thing' in accordance with the real purpose attached to them by the Creator is a 'GOOD' thing, a 'GOOD' act, a 'GOOD' use of one's one life, the life of others as well as any and all manner of 'thing' within this All not of our creating.

The currently used word 'EVIL' derives from Old Germanice 'YFEL' which following the derivations of words in our current language of English comes to us from the Sanskrit word 'UPO'.

The Sanskrit word 'UPO' means such things as 'replace, to cover up, to exchange one for another, to conceal, to hide' ect.

The Divine Imperative given to Adam and Eve ('Mankind' and 'Mother of all the living') forbidding them to 'eat of the knowledge of good and evil' was so that the entire human race WOULD NOT begin to use their own human natures and every last thing - seen or unseen - within this 'All' - for a purpose/for purposes which would bring HARM, DESTRUCTION, UNFORTUNATE CONSEQUENCES upon them.

Mankind does really and truly HAVE a spiritual faculty of 'free will'. Mankind does really and truly LIVE in an 'All' which operates relentlessly under the principle of 'Cause and Effect'. And mankind, individuals as well as entire communities, nations and states CAN CHOOSE to 'follow their own noses' to their own utter destruction.

If people so choose to REJECT Divine Wisdom as a result of their own spiritual hubris - being so 'proud' of their own minds, their own thoughts, their own individuality, their own ability to make freely willed free choices - they are choosing to play 'Russian Roulette' with their own lives, the lives of those around them and the lives of those they will never see.

- tocarm

This post has been edited by tocarm: Dec 27 2006, 12:03 PM

[painter]

<s>
The Divine Imperative given to Adam and Eve ('Mankind' and 'Mother of all the living') forbidding them to 'eat of the knowledge of good and evil' was so that the entire human race WOULD NOT begin to use their own human natures and every last thing - seen or unseen - within this 'All' - for a purpose/for purposes which would bring HARM, DESTRUCTION, UNFORTUNATE CONSEQUENCES upon them.

Don't you think it is just a bit odd to give humans natures they're not supposed to use? I think your epistemology is 'all screwed up', as exemplified by several paragraphs, but the one above in particular. However, I'm probably not the one to try and sort it out for you -- I don't think you'd pay any attention to what I had to say anyway.

See, you and I have a very different exegesis of these matters. You think man has 'free will'; I argue the problem is, man does not have 'free will' although most people think they do; and can't have free will so long as individual men and women do not developed a proper relationship with the Divine nature of which they are a part. Man can not choose because mankind is not conscious except in a very limited, mostly reactive, sense -- certainly not conscious enough to understand the full implications of their actions. We do not feel the consequences of what we do as we do it.

Words. Are. Spells.

[tocarm]

Dear Painter,

I pm'd you my rather lenghty response.

Now then, regarding your final comment: 'Words. Are. Spells.', in a spirit of humility I can tell you this -- whether or not you seriously consider those things I've already attempted to explain to you or not pretty much amounts to but a hill of beans with respect to things 'religious', 'theological', 'philosophical', 'spiritual'. And why? Precisely because I'm not God.

Now then, with respect to 'Words', do take the time to give serious consideration (if you can) to what God has to say about 'words'...His Words...here:

http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...49;&version=31;

I must truthfully and overtly admit to you, to MichaelMR, to Guinan that 'my words' ARE very, very incredibly impotent and ineffectual.

Do you have any idea as to how many 'WORDS' I've both written as well as have spoken to 'my fellow US citizens', my US Federal & State Government officials, to the FBI, to the US Sheriffs, to US Attorneys, to US Marshalls, to US Armed Forces Commissioned Officers -- and yes, to include virtually all the members of the ecclesiastical hierarchy of my Catholic Church - up to and including the Pope himself these past 13 years warning/advising/telling them about such things as Chemtrails, the Federal Reserve, the IRS...about 9-11???

I'm grown very accustomed to the "fact" that MY words simply do not count nor have any weight nor contain anything 'worth' saying or telling to virtually everyone who comes across them in 'written' form.

Talking about 'Spells'...to be sure - the whole lot of them ARE under some sort of 'Spell' - a 'spell of cowardice'...a 'spell of sloth'...a 'spell of cognitive dissonance'...a 'spell of indifference'...a 'spell of protecting his/her/their rice bowls'...etc.

- tocarm

[Devilsadvocate]

I've read through a good bit of this thread and found it quite interesting- pity it came to a stop.
The original question posed was "What if we *are* gods?"; it may not be much, but i would like to look at that question from a somewhat different angle, if i may.
As i explained in the newcomer-thread at some point, i used to be an engine-fitter by trade; i gave that up when i discovered that i've got no control whatsoever over the kind of things i helped to construct. (I may not have an awful lot of power or influence in this world, but at least *that* is a level of control which i do posses:
The control over what i do with my own two hands! (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) )
After coming to Ireland, i had a lot more time to think about something else but "got to go to work and earn money". For a number of reasons, i got interested in the culture of the ancient Egyptians.
I never thought that this kind of activity would ever amount to anything- but, to my utter amazement, it did. I came across a number of interesting facts- some of which i would be quite able to provide proof for. (...Some of the quoted texts in the "Poetry"-section are part of that: The last people to read those texts lived about 2000 years ago...)
To the ancient Egyptians, everything in this universe was a thought in the mind of God. (That God, by the way, was something they called "UA"- which is simply the Egyptian numeral for "ONE": The "only one". The Greeks mistranslated the word "Neter" or "Netjer" as meaning "God"- Painter referred to it in another part of this thread. The word means something like "divine manifestation" or "divine aspect": There were something like 700 "Netjeru"- 700 different ways of looking at one and the same thing...
There were *no* temples directly dedicated to "UA", and He/She/It was never directly worshipped: Only it's manifestations were honoured.)
Now- if anything which exists in the universe is a thought in the mind of God, then that would mean that the thoughts which you and I think in our own minds are *also* thoughts in the mind of God. At least that would stand to reason, no??
Now- we are not talking about the kind of thoughts which come popping up at one in the morning as a result of insomnia, and which lead to a series of other thoughts which flow from each other- one bringing the next with it, until at about five in the morning we discover that we just spent the last four hours in blissfull menthal masturbation (...plus the fact that we got to get up not long from now- a disturbing thought, considering that we just wasted an entire night thinking about all kinds of rubbish when we should have been sleeping...)
We are talking about *conscious thought*- the kind of thought which has something to do with being wide awake, and with being aware about the kind of thoughts generated.
Those thoughts, then, are *also* thoughts in the mind of God.
What is it that makes you an individual?
Shape of your nose?
Colour of your eyes??
Body of a man or a woman???
Or maybe the thoughts which you think????
There are people in this world who will tell you that they only ever believe what they can see with their own eyes.
The problem with people like that is that- by their own definition!- they do *not exist* as individuals (working on the assumption that an individuals thoughts are what defines this individual as such!)
Or has anyone here ever actually *seen* a thought???
...What *is* a thought? An electro-magnetic impulse in the brain?
If that would be the case, there would be another problem.
The Egyptians left thousands of texts behind- chiselled in stone, written on papyrus, carved into wood.
The last temple of Isis on the island of Philae was closed by emperor Justin of the Roman Empire around the 5th. century.
By the time Islam arrived in Egypt, there was no one left who could have read those texts; it stayed that way until Francois Champollion managed to decipher the Rosetta-stone in the early 19th. century.
In other words: For a period of more than a thousand years, there were *no* brains which could have generated the kind of electro-magnetic impulses corresponding to the concepts and ideas contained within those texts.
Yet they were there all along: Chiselled in stone, written on papyrus, carved into wood.
A thought therefore can not really be a physical concept: It's not something which can be directly perceived by the senses, or which could be weighed and measured.
It's the concept of an idea manifesting itself, becoming defined by way of words.
Words are the interface between mind and perception; the actual underlying thought is an archetype which, could it be directly perceived, could be understood by *anybody*- regardless of the language one actually speaks.
Egyptian hieroglyphs reflect that concept insofar as they work on two main levels- the first one of which is the fact that they are a picture-language made up of archetypes. A hieroglyph representing a goose will always mean "goose", no matter if the person looking at it speaks ancient Egyptian, modern English or Chinese. On the second level the sign represents a sound- in this case something which would sound like "ZA" for English-speakers; in that capacity, it can have quite a few meanings (...in the same way in which "Hand" in English can have quite a few meanings: Farm"hand", Deck"hand", Hand of cards, Clock"hand"...)
So- to recap:
All that exists is a thought in the mind of God- including the thoughts we generate within our own minds.
God is a gigantic mind- it thinks thoughts: It's a bit like an ocean of consciousness.
Each one of us is a drop of consciousness from this ocean.
Since we are compelled to exist within a physical body, there is a boundary which defines our sphere of influence. Within this boundary, *WE ARE GODS*.
What that means is that we have the capacity to *create* our own inner universe, and we have the responsibility to deal with the maintenance of that universe.
Regrettably (...or maybe thankfully!), outside of that boundary *WE ARE NOT GODS*. We are merely part of the whole (UA- the ONE, indivisible wholeness). This means that your soul is not something which was graciously given to you by God- it's one of the components of which God is made...
The problem is that people are not aware anymore. They are driven by the neccessities posed by their physical existance. The ability to create one's own inner universe must be taught -and learned!- first.
Without this learning, they become vulnerable to manipulation: Someone else can try and create their inner universe *for* them.
This inner Universe is the only place in the universe were we can- and should!- be in the centre. The analogy the Egyptians were using to describe this concept was the idea of the "sungod" RA. A small residual part of that is described in the Greek (but Egyptian-influenced) legend of Oedipus and the Sphinx:
The Sphinx (Body of a lion with the head of a man) poses a riddle to Oedipus.
"What is it that walks on four legs in the morning, on two legs at noon, and on three legs in the evening?"
The answer was "Man".
To the Egyptians, RA came into being as "Khepri" (meaning "to become", coming into being); he was RA at noon, and became Atum (or Atem, meaning "the end", or He-who-brings-to-an-end) at sunset. Atum represented sunset, but also autumn (notice the similarity between "Atum" and "Autumn"?).
They had a festival: The festival of the birth of the sungod's walking-staff...
(IMG:http://www.smileypad.com/artists/fool/emoticons/old.gif)
The third leg, so to speak.
Atum would die at sunset, but he would be re-born as Khepri the following morning.
According to the Egyptians, there is not, there never has been, and there never will be anything in the universe that is *dead*. Even a rock possesses consciousness- albeit in potential form. The process of creation is ongoing, and always will be: If the rock is broken down by some lifeform, it will eventually become part of the manifest consciousness contained within lifeforms.
One interesting aspect of this concept is that *hating* is a pretty futile exercise- because it effectively means trying to ask God to hate itself...
So- that is pretty much the ancient Egyptian idea of "God" and "Man"-
or, in the words of Osiris:
"All Gods are immortal men- all men are mortal Gods".
(Note: "mortal"-(IMG:http://www.smileypad.com/artists/fool/emoticons/minzdr.gif) not "dead"!)

Does all that make sense to anyone? (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

[painter]

<s>
Does all that make sense to anyone? (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

Yes.

There are a couple threads you should take a look at.

Here is one (you'll need to follow all the links within it, too):

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...showtopic=4570

Here's another:

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...showtopic=4643

[Devilsadvocate]

I just had some problems with my computer (pages coming up blank, that is).
Thanks for the reply- i had actually been looking at the first thread you mentioned before. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/salute.gif)
From what i've been reading so far, i can say that i very much agree with the concept that this whole thing goes much deeper than just 9-11;
that goes for the problem at hand, and also for any potential solutions.
I'll keep reading up on that esoteric-thread; it may take me a bit to wrap *my mind* around it, but i'll get there. Call it *hunger*...

[Devilsadvocate]

Finished reading...I enjoyed that- especially the excerpts from Gurdijeff. I got some books about the Enneagram, but i never had a chance to read any of his books. (Well- anything i do these days runs on a shoestring budget. I just can't afford to buy books.)
One of the biggest problems these days is the fact that 98% of the population don't want to be bothered with big philosophical concepts, or big religious concepts, or any big concepts: They have families, they want to raise their children, and their shoulders are simply not broad enough to carry that kind of weight...But in a democracy, they are required to do exactly that, regardless of the fact that they can't.
The Egyptians had a way of dealing with that- by way of the temple-estates.
Those temple-estates provided a safe environment where people could raise their children, and which provided them with an existance free of the kind of worries tied to one's physical being. Most of the economy was run by way of those temple-estates...
We are lacking that. Instead we are forced to worry about jobs, paycuts, employers moving abroad...This system is pitting people against one another.
They end up having to compete with the poor of this world: Who is willing to work for less?
Egyptian society was shaped like a pyramid- it had a broad base with which it was standing on hard ground, and the weight of the superstructure was spread over many shoulders.
At the same time, there was another aspect- because that pyramid was also standing *with its capstone on heaven*...
A Pharao (Per Ao="Great House") was required to carry the spiritual weight of an entire nation, and by extension even of the whole universe.
They were one of the longest-lived cultures to ever grace this world; if they themselves can be believed, their origins go back some 40000 years...

[tocarm]

And what is everybody's answer to the Question:

"....And what if we >>ARE NOT<< gods???"

- tocarm

[Devilsadvocate]

[QUOTE]tocarm Posted on Feb 27 2007, 06:40 PM
And what is everybody's answer to the Question:

"....And what if we >>ARE NOT<< gods???"

- tocarm

...That's a question any victim of childabuse or rape knows the answer to.

[tocarm]

Doesn't answer the question.

For all of you 'gods' and 'goddesses' out there in Internet videoland - ya know, there are a lot of people hungry throughout this world of ours. Perhaps this mortal human being needs to remind all of you omniscients of their hunger so that all of you omnipotents will "get your high and mighty god/goddess" acts together and being multiplying some loaves of BREAD and FISH for them all.

And again, to all of you 'gods and goddesses' out there - IF you can get your omniscient eyes off the mirrors you are gazing into admiring yourselves - there are an awful number of mortal human beings down here on earth that need your healing - you can start with all the LEPERS on earth...then work your way up to the CRIPPLES and those who are BLIND...and let us not forget all those who are TORMENTED in spirit!

And if you 'gods and goddesses' can't so much lift your 'divine fingers' in order to help this human race of ours from annihilating itself by its own stupidity in this upcoming thermonuclear third world war we are being led into - then here is this mortal human being telling all of you 'gods and goddesses' out there in Internet videoland to

>>>>>>>>>>> GO TAKE A FLYING LEAP! <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

- tocarm
"Maran-atha!"

This post has been edited by tocarm: Feb 27 2007, 10:59 PM

[MichaelMR]

That is beyond stupid. People still don't get the fact that initial point was more to a metaphorical viewpoint. Meaning language, not a superficial flying teapot god, and the relation between.

Apparently language is a difficult thing to understand.

This post has been edited by MichaelMR: Feb 27 2007, 11:13 PM

[Devilsadvocate]

Somewhere above i tried to explain that within the boundaries of our own *inner universe* we are Gods; outside of those boundaries we are not.
If i were to try and solve all the various problems in this world by means of some divine miraculous cure, then i would be a God *outside of that boundary*.
I am required to create the universe *inside of myself*, and i am required to *maintain* that universe.
Childabuse has very little to do with sex.
It has everything to do with control: With *power*.
It works on a very simple principle:
The abuser entices a child into a sexual relationship- the first one that child ever has. He (or she) will try and gain the childs trust.
Then comes the moment when the abuser takes power:
That usually has something to do with the concept "...you can't tell anyone about this- because if anyone finds out what *you* have been up to- filthy little thing that you are..."
It may not take that many words. And it's the same principle rape is based on- like all forms of bullying.
In that moment, the victim is pushed out of the centre of his or her own universe.
Instead, the abuser takes a seat there- or to be precise, one small fragment of the abuser's mind; a single thought: "You are completely worthless...".
It's so powerful that it may haunt the victim for the rest of his or her natural life.
I know. I've been dealing with a victim of childabuse for the better part of ten years- the most difficult ten years of my life. And the most rewarding- even though the person in question never did come to terms with what happened.
The cure is for the victim to get back into the center of his or her own inner universe. The problem is that western society has a somewhat complicated relationship with anything to do with the physical body- it's been regarded as negative, sinful, dirty for centuries.
But the physical body is the very boundary a victim like that has to get passed in order to get back to the center of the inner universe.
Being pushed out like that is about the worst kind of experience anyone can have- because it's the closest anyone can come to being dead whilst still being alive...

[tocarm]

Do people want to immerse themselves for the entirety of their lives/lifetimes in coddling FICTIONS and 'LET'S PLAY MAKE BELIEVE' and MYTHS about God, about Divinity, about the Supernatural Order - or do people the world over NEVER want to >>GROW UP<< spiritually, morally, ethically, intellectually, socially, sexually, etc?

"'HOW LONG', he (Father Elijah) said, 'do you mean TO HOBBLE first on one leg and then on the other?' If Yahweh is God, follow Him. If Baal, follow him."
- Jerusalem Bible - 1 Kings 18:21 - for other versions/translations:
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...:21;&version=47
http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?searc...:21;&version=8;

Do you people WANT to discuss Divine Revelation?? YES or NO? Stop hobbling!
Make up your minds. Are you going to take your eyes and minds off of your NAVELS and make the effort to train them on what God Incarnate had/has to say?

And STOP this whining about being 'abused'! For cryin' out loud - EVERY LAST HUMAN BEING ON EARTH HAS BEEN >>ABUSED<<, has experienced >ABUSE<!
Even God Incarnate Himself in His human nature was >CRUCIFIED<. Sssheessh.

Now do people WANT to be >>HEALED<< of their physical abuse? Of their emotional abuse? Of their intellectual as well as spiritual abuse?

YES or NO? Stop hobbling!!!

If you were ABUSED as a child by people who HAVEN'T THE FOGGIEST CLUE as to what their God-given human SEXUALITY is meant for in the very first place, and you are HURT, you are ANGRY, you are in a perptual inner RAGE - I'm gonna TELL YOU what to do...

...First, you STOP HOBBLING AROUND in circles - you make you YOUR MIND that you really and truly WANT God to heal you in every possible way - physically, emotionally, mentally, spiritually..

...Second, you ARM YOURSELF with the religious/spiritual KNOWLEDGE that God has NO DESIRE for anyone on His planet earth to ABUSE/MISUSE their own or another's human nature, another's human dignity, another's human welfare and well being.

...Third, you STOP HOBBLING and you walk UPRIGHT, with ardent desire and with adrent conviction that God is Omniscient, Omnipotent and Omnipresent, meaning to say He is FULLY AWARE of the abuse you've endured, FULLY AWARE He is more than capable of HEALING one's physical, emotional, mental and spiritual ailments as a result of that ABUSE at the hands of other(s)...and you march yourself DIRECTLY TO one of His Priests, presenting yourself to the Priest with all the 'ailments' your ABUSE has caused you - emotionally, mentally, spiritually.

While you CONFESS >>THE WRONGS<< others have inflicted upon YOU, you make darn sure YOU CONFESS all the wrongs YOU'VE inflicted on others during the course of YOUR life/lifetime as well.

THEN...with God being OMNIPRESENT with His Priest...you ask His Priest to 1) grant YOU God's forgiveness for YOUR abuses against others - to include He Himself 2) tell His Priest YOU are willing to extend YOUR forgiveness to those who have ABUSED you and 3) you ask His Priest to ANOINT YOU with Holy Chrism as your outward sign of God's Inner Ability TO SOOTHE, TO HEAL anything and everything giving you any and all sorts of personal DISCOMFORT in body, mind, heart and spirit.

By doing THAT - you've STOPPED HOBBLING by making yourself a candidate for Christ's Sacraments of Confession/Reconciliation as well as Anointing of the Sick!

From there - one can STOP HOBBLING and avail oneself to the OTHER Sacraments of His New Covenant with ALL OF MANKIND - such as Baptism, the Eucharist, Confirmation.

"Spin your wheels" for the rest of your life/lives WHINING about all of the EVIL and ABUSE going on in our 'world' - OR DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT!

- tocarm

[Devilsadvocate]

I hate to point it out to you- but the person whom i was referring to is a woman. I am a man- i was not referring to myself.
If you want to call what i have written "whining", then you must do what you must do.
As for Divine revelation- why not start a thread about it? (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)

[MichaelMR]

Do people want to immerse themselves for the entirety of their lives/lifetimes in coddling FICTIONS and 'LET'S PLAY MAKE BELIEVE' and MYTHS about God

God is the result of fiction, Tocarm. He isn't real. The only place that God exists in is your imagination and beliefs.

This post has been edited by MichaelMR: Feb 28 2007, 09:08 PM

[tocarm]

GOD INCARNATE HIMSELF said:

"ASK, and it will be given to you. SEARCH, and you will find. KNOCK, and the door will be opened to you. For the one who ASKS always receives; the one who SEARCHES always finds; the one who KNOCKS will always have the door opened to him." - Jesus THE CHRIST to and for the entire human race - Matthew 7:7-9

Now if all of you are TOO LAZY to 'ask', TOO LAZY to 'search', TOO LAZY to 'knock', then get off my back!

All of you have a personal computer staring you right in the face. All of you can 'hunt & peck' on your QWERTY keyboards. All of you can type in 'Google.com' and avail yourselves of a great Internet search engine.

ALL OF YOU are >>too lazy<< to use your PCs to go to Google.com and to simply type in the following words:

"Eucharistic Miracles"
"Marian Apparitions"
"Zeitun Apparitions"

ALL OF YOU are >>too lazy<< to use your PCs to go to Google.com's "Images" and "Video" search for

"Eucaharistic Miracles"
"Marian Apparitions"
"Zeitun Apparitions"
"Faimta Apparitions"

Just ADMIT IT to yourselves - you'd much rather DENY God's existance and God's Intervention within human history since ancient times. You prefer to keep yourselves "away from Divine Truth" because such knowledge would require a PERSONAL response from each and every last one of you - and people nowadays do anything and everything TO AVOID any sort of personal responsibility for anything or anybody - up to an including one's personal responsibility to ONE'S SELF as to ONE'S CREATOR.

If you REFUSE to 'Ask'...if you REFUSE to 'Seek'...if you REFUSE to 'Knock'...then STOP making yourselves such 'experts' on God's Own Divine Things and His Divine Revelation! Simply admit to the entire world that you know >>JACK DIDDLY SQUAT<< about His Divine Things and YOU PREFER TO KEEP IT THAT WAY.

He (God Incarnate) said something along these lines:

"Leave them alone. They are the blind leading the blind."

Go ahead - keep your eyes SHUT TIGHT as you tell everyone else on planet earth about the Nature, Character and Being of God Himself!

Between you practical and theoretical atheists on the one side and all the vehemently anti-Catholic 'bible thumpin' fundamentalists' on the other - I've HAD IT with both of your lots!

- tocarm

This post has been edited by tocarm: Mar 1 2007, 01:10 PM

[MichaelMR]

I was Christian for about 14 years; it's reading further into the issue that turned me Atheist. No one "denies" his existence. It’s the simple fact that the poor guy does NOT exist. If I were to take some book seriously which claims the universe was created in 7 days and is no more than 6 thousand years old, I’d be an unrealistic fool because all of that has been proven false and disinformation. If these scriptures were written by god through man, he’s clearly a liar.

Your arrogance in your belief that a supernatural god is what governs all isn't just unrealistic, it lacks basic common sense. Bolding quotes from a fabricated book doesn't help your cause either, if anything, you're probably quoting something the emperor Constantine added into the bible to incorporate his pagan beliefs.

This post has been edited by MichaelMR: Mar 2 2007, 07:43 AM

[mo fiya]

i'm late on this thread, and only read through the first 2 pages of posts, but i have a comment..

regarding what MichaelMR originally posted, i pretty much agree with you on that.

ancient civilizations all around the world seemed to have similar experiences which they wrote or drew about, and they all seem to contain flying apparatuses, and "someone" coming down out of the skies.

to me, it makes more sense to conclude that it was probably extra terrestrial beings that visited Earth and interacted with humans here...maybe they planted us here, or maybe SOME species of ET planted us here, and OTHER ones come here to study, manipulate, etc...

why don't they interact like that anymore? maybe they do, and we just don't know about it...i'm sure the governments of the world do, though.

as far as some almighty God as depicted in the Christian religion, or basically almost ANY mainstream religion...

where is he NOW? when we need him the MOST....

[painter]

i'm late on this thread, and only read through the first 2 pages of posts, but i have a comment..

regarding what MichaelMR originally posted, i pretty much agree with you on that.

ancient civilizations all around the world seemed to have similar experiences which they wrote or drew about, and they all seem to contain flying apparatuses, and "someone" coming down out of the skies.

to me, it makes more sense to conclude that it was probably extra terrestrial beings that visited Earth and interacted with humans here...maybe they planted us here, or maybe SOME species of ET planted us here, and OTHER ones come here to study, manipulate, etc...

why don't they interact like that anymore?  maybe they do, and we just don't know about it...i'm sure the governments of the world do, though.

as far as some almighty God as depicted in the Christian religion, or basically almost ANY mainstream religion...

where is he NOW?  when we need him the MOST....

The universe is constructed far more strangely than we imagine. "UFOs" aren't even the half of it.

God is closer to us than our jugular vein. <-- That is an old Sufi saying, but true none the less. The question isn't where is 'god', but why is it we don't see 'god' everywhere we look? "I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together."

We don't know how to do anything. We have lost our way. We have wandered off into a particular FRAME of consciousness which we mistake for 'seeing the world as it is'. We haven't a clue.*

See my still unfinished thread: "Esotericism: What it is, why it matters."



*

I Am the Walrus

I am he as you are he as you are me and we are all together.
See how they run like pigs from a gun, see how they fly.
I'm crying.

Sitting on a cornflake, waiting for the van to come.
Corporation tee-shirt, stupid bloody Tuesday.
Man, you been a naughty boy, you let your face grow long.
I am the eggman, they are the eggmen, I am the walrus,
goo goo g'joob

Mister City P'liceman sitting
Pretty little policemen in a row.
See how they fly like Lucy in the Sky, see how they run.
I'm crying. I'm cry------------ing,
I'm crying. I'm cry------------ing.

Yellow matter custard, dripping from a dead dog's eye.
Crabalocker fishwife, pornographic priestess,
Boy, you been a naughty girl you let your Knickers down.
I am the eggman, they are the eggmen, I am the walrus,
goo goo g'joob

Sitting in an English garden waiting for the sun.
If the sun don't come, you get a tan
From standing in the English rain.
I am the eggmen, they are the eggmen, I am the walrus,
goo goo g'joob goo goo g'joob

Expert texpert choking smokers,
Don't you think the joker laughs at you? (ho ho ho, he, he he, ha, ha, ha)
See how they smile like pigs in a sty, see how they snied.
I'm crying.

Semolina pilchard, climbing up the Eiffel Tower.
Elementary penguin singing Hari Krishna.
Man, you should have seen them kicking Edgar Allan Poe.
I am the eggman, they are the eggmen, I am the walrus,
goo goo g'joob, goo goo goo g'joob, goo goo g'joob, g'goo goo g'joob g'goo
(rhythmical speaking along with juba's).
Juba juba juba, juba, juba, juba, juba, juba, juba juba. Juba juba.....
(speaking)

--Repeat (eventually juba's will stop) and fade until end.--
during the fade out background vocals:
[Simultaneously:] 'Everybody's got one' and 'Oompa, oompa, stick it up your joompa' [jumper]

[tocarm]

MichaelMR,

God isn't "dead". The ontological reality of the matter is that MEN & WOMEN are "dead"!

God most assuredly "exists" as does the Grand Canyon "exist".

I've been to the Grand Canyon (Arizona side). It's beautiful, breath-taking, awesome & quite frankly (to me) "startling". Took me some effort and the undertaking of "a journey by car" to get there in order "to see" it, to "witness" it.
If I didn't have the ROADMAPS and the AUTOMOBILE and the CASH IN POCKET, I would have neve gotten there.

In my religious/spiritual "journeys" in/with the Catholic Church and within my religious order within the Catholic Church known as 'The Carmelites', I've had my "experiences of God". Gazed into His Face. Heard His Voice. Found myself in the Very Presense of the Blessed Trinity - God the Father, God the Son and God the Holy Spirit.

His (Jesus') Mother made this pleading request to me in what is known in Christian Mystical Theology as a 'Inner Locution': "DEFEND THE CHURCH!"

So I do what I can...

Not only does God 'exists' - in the Divine Godhead there is 'The Father', 'The Son' and 'The Holy Spirit' - there are 'Angels'. There are these 'terrifyingly magnificent' angelic/elemental spiritual beings given the name of 'Seraphim' - literally "The Burning Ones" who are so close to God, their spiritual beinghood is quite literally "Blazing" with the Fire, the Heat and the Light of God Himself.

Then there are other 'angels' such as the Cheribum. Why, you yourself have a 'Guardian Angel'. You and ask your own personal Guardian Angel "to help you" overcome, conquer and master your own spiritual nature and to assist you in your spiritual weaknesses.

And lastly, there is this incredibly EVIL and MALICIOUS "elemental spirit" who has this horde, this 'army of evil' if you will, who/which do everything in their powers to bring about the death, suffering, decay and destruction of human beings (incarante spirits created in the Image and Likeness of God Himself here on earth - about 6 billion or so of 'us').

What else can I possibly tell you? God the Holy Spirit desires ardently to grant us His Spiritual Gifts of Knowledge, Understanding, Wisdom, Piety, Reverence, Courage/Fortitude, Awe/Fear of God along with a whole host of other lesser "charismatic" Spiritual Gifts such as Healing, Prophecy, Teaching, Preaching, etc.

If you don't want to believe in 'The Grand Canyon' - you can "make it go away" in your mind by simply DENYING its existance and by burning/destroying all the pictures and photos and books and films and souveniers people purchased while at the Grand Canyon themselves.

And if you don't want to believe in "God" - you can "make Him go away" in your mind by simply repeatedly DENYNIG His Existance and by burning/destroying all the pictures and photos and books and films and 'souveniers' people have collected on/about God for the past 2,000 years or so.

It's all very, very simple precisely become God Is Simple and all of mankind's COMPLEX problems are of his own devising.

- tocarm