Georgia... Russia/us/israel 'proxy' War Has Begun, This could be prelude to large regional conflict, including Iran Rating Options

[Devilsadvocate]

War in Ossetia


For those who don't know:
Ossetia is a province formally belonging to Georgia (no, not in the US; that's 'Georgia' near the Black sea.)
About two-thirds of the population (Total around 100000) are Ossetian; just under one third is Georgian, the remainder are various minorities.
As a minority within Georgia, they have not fared too well under Georgian rule; not surprisingly, they subsequently want little to do with that state. After a war for independence in 1992, the region has been defacto autonomous with the support of Russia.
On two occasions, votes were held to determine the fate of Ossetia. The votes were covered by independent observers; the vast majority of the people there decided they want nothing to do with Georgia.
The UN decided that the votes shoud not count- on the grounds that few members of the Georgian minority there voted. It could be argued that even if all of them would have voted in favor of Ossetia remaining part of Georgia, it would have made preciously little difference. Ah, well...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/South_Ossetia

The Georgian president has stated that he wants to restore 'the integrity of Georgia's territory':
Over the last few years, he has received support from the United States:
Georgia is presently the third-largest contributor to the occupation of Iraq; a short while ago, 1000 US-Marines have been training Georgian troops. Presently, 100 or so military advisors are still in the country.

Georgia's president seems to have now decided that the Olympic games provide perfect timing for an attempt to restore the 'territorial integrity of Georgia':
He has sent troops into the place.

Naturally, the Media have been quick to present the western public with proper coverage of the Russian act of agression...err...

Let me be clear about this.
There has been a correspondent for the news-agency 'Reuters' just outside of the Ossetian capital,Tskhinvali, who reported that the city was under heavy bombardment from artillery and aircraft. Pictures and video-footage show artillery-rockets being fired and impacting between buildings.
These reports and pictures appeared hours *before* Russian tanks arrived there.

The timing suggests Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili may have been counting on surprise to fulfill his longtime pledge to wrest back control of South Ossetia — a key to his hold on power.

Saakashvili agreed the timing was not coincidental, but accused Russia of being the aggressor. "Most decision makers have gone for the holidays," he said in an interview with CNN. "Brilliant moment to attack a small country."

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/eu...ict-888487.html

Mr Saakashvili, a US-educated lawyer who succeeded Eduard Shevardnadze in 2004 and has since tried to align it more closely to the West, compared the Russian action with the invasion of Afghanistan in 1979 and appealed to the outside world to intervene.

"Russia is fighting a war with us in our own territory," he told CNN as Russian armour rolled into South Ossetia.

"It's not about Georgia anymore. It's about America, its values: we are a freedom-loving nation that is right now under attack."

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/worl...icle4486208.ece

The German website 'Spiegel online' actually manages to outdo itself with *this* mindboggling attempt at half-arsed journalism:

http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-34030-11.html

Caption (my translation):
"This resident of the capital Tskhinvali greets the invading Georgian troops"

Err- no. Not quite. At least if the flags on the leading vehicle (visible just at the righthand edge of the picture, to the right of the jeep) are anything to go by.
Because if I'm not mistaken, those flags are pretty much the same as these:

http://www.spiegel.de/fotostrecke/fotostrecke-34030-13.html

In other words- the gentleman is greeting invading *Russian* troops...not *Georgian* troops.
And if those Russian vehicles were still hours away from Tskhinvali, then that gentleman can hardly be a resident of Tskhinvali. Can he now ?

So.
The president of Georgia claims sovereignty over South Ossetia.
And he is trying to back those claims up by bombing the hell out of the population of that place.
The Russians seem to object to that, and he's about to get his rear end whipped.
And so he's now whinging and whining and wants the rest of the world to start world war three in his honor.
I would be surprised if the Russians wouldn't be 'credited' with the huge death-toll in Ossetia over the next few days. And it will be a load of hogwash.
I don't doubt that the Russians have their own aganda here.
But the residents of Tskhinvali sure as hell have absolutely no reason to greet their Georgian 'Liberators'...
Meanwhile, I hope to god that Bush doesn't start to believe that that place is named after him...
And what about our 'free western media'...?

(Our *what* ? Oh,well...And altogether:)
"♪Ah ! ça ira, ça ira, ça ira...♪"

This post has been edited by painter: Aug 9 2008, 03:42 PM

Reason for edit: Changed subject line to something more serious

[Devilsadvocate]

Watch this space...
That conflict has the potential to become extremely explosive.
And it may well be aimed at keeping the Russians pre-occupied...

This is important:
How much media-coverage about this conflict exists in the US right now?

And compare it with Painters post:

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....showtopic=14140

This post has been edited by painter: Aug 8 2008, 11:32 PM

Reason for edit: added emphasis

[painter]

This is important:
How much media-coverage about this conflict exists in the US right now?

MSNBC Embedded Video: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp=26094998#26095477

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp=26094998#26092138

New York Times: Georgian and Rrussian Forces Facing Off in Rebel Province

Reuters: U.S. tells Russia to pull forces out of Georgia

Senator BIDEN Issues Statement on Continued Violence in South Ossetia; calls on UN Security Council to get involved:
http://biden.senate.gov/press/press_releas...96-e8e148330671

VOA: UN Security Council Fails to Agree on Georgia

Chicago Tribune: Russia, Georgia come to blows; U.S. may be forced into tough decisions

Reuters: Update 1-Georgia to impose martial law, port bombed-official

[albertchampion]

i think that the next ww is about to begin.

there will be no presidential elections. the draft will be reinstated.

george walker bush will become the president of the us politburo.

the fbi will be renamed the ohkrana. the cia will be renamed the nkvd.

and the gulags will be labeled sozhenitzyns[and virtually no one will know that that signifies].

i was at a luncheon the other day. someone asked me what i did. i told them that i was a historian, a librarian.

they then asked me what i studied. i told them that my study/my library starts with truman and the national security act of 1947. why that, i was asked. i replied that was when the end of the democratic republic became codified.

[UnderTow]

The president of Georgia claims sovereignty over South Ossetia.
And he is trying to back those claims up by bombing the hell out of the population of that place.
The Russians seem to object to that, and he's about to get his rear end whipped.
And so he's now whinging and whining and wants the rest of the world to start world war three in his honor.
I would be surprised if the Russians wouldn't be 'credited' with the huge death-toll in Ossetia over the next few days. And it will be a load of hogwash.
I don't doubt that the Russians have their own aganda here.
But the residents of Tskhinvali sure as hell have absolutely no reason to greet their Georgian 'Liberators'...

Just wanted to quote that part out for my own edification.

Personally, since my msm exposure equals about Zero, I barely knew about the War events of today. I heard about it from early this morning, but haven't wandered to read any msm source on it yet.

[painter]

i think that the next ww is about to begin.

there will be no presidential elections. the draft will be reinstated.

george walker bush will become the president of the us politburo.

the fbi will be renamed the ohkrana. the cia will be renamed the nkvd.

and the gulags will be labeled sozhenitzyns[and virtually no one will know that that signifies].

I can't make predictions but yours seem completely plausible to me.

[Devilsadvocate]

One interesting detail:
The majority of the people in that place are ethnic Ossetians. They have little reason to trust the Georgians, and claim that during the Soviet era the Georgians were more Stalinist then the Russians (not surprisingly, considering that Iosef Vissarionovich Dzhugashvili actually was Georgian).
They feel more akin with the Russians, and most of them have accepted the offer to receive a Russian passport.
In practical terms, this means that the Russians- under the Russian constitution- are compelled to defend them against any attack, regardless of location.

The western media seem hell-bend to portray this as an act of aggression by the Russians (which technically it is, since Ossetia is officially still recognised by the UN and the west in general as Georgian territory).
However:
Saakashvili claims Ossetia as Georgian territory.
Officially, it is seen as Georgian territory.
This would make the Ossetians Georgian citizens.
There were reports of shelling and bombing in Tskhinvali earlier in the day:
Well before Russian troops even got near the place.
This means that Georgia has been bombing its own citizens.

[André]

---

[Devilsadvocate]

Dated 3/2/2004 :

Russia denounces US-Georgia pact: A defense pact concluded between the US and Georgia, a former Soviet Republic in the Caucasus, has been denounced in the Russian Parliament as unfriendly and threatening to Russia's security. The Russian Parliament said that the accord "is aimed at further build-up of American military presence in Trans-Caucasus" and warned that this "ran counter to the spirit of a treaty of friendship, good-neighborhood, cooperation and mutual security that Russia and Georgia are working on." Russian lawmakers voiced concern that the US-Georgia defense pact could pave the way to "the use of US armed forces in Georgia for resolving by force the conflicts in Abkhazia and South Ossetia.

http://www.buzzle.com/editorials/3-2-2004-51178.asp

(Edit: Link to Eurasianet.org article added)
http://www.eurasianet.org/departments/insi...av041603a.shtml

The Georgian parliament ratified the bilateral agreement on defense cooperation in late March. Since then Russian government officials have kept up a steady stream of invective against the pact. Under the agreement’s provisions, US military personnel are allowed visa-free entry and exit from Georgia, are permitted to carry weapons and are immune from prosecution in Georgian courts. The agreement also grants the US military to deploy hardware without impediments on Georgian territory.

(The agreement was signed by Edvard Shevardnadze a few months before his disposal.)

George...Have you been signing things again...?
George??
George! You know the doctor said you can't sign things...

This post has been edited by Devilsadvocate: Sep 19 2009, 09:44 PM

[painter]

DA, I hope you don't mind, but I'm changing the title of this thread. What is going on here is potentially very serious and your subject line just doesn't convey that at all. Thank you for your understanding.

[painter]

Thanks to sb5walker for this information:

Source:
http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5496

---

Second separatist Abkhazia province joins Russian-Georgian South Ossetia war
DEBKAfile Special Report
August 9, 2008, 6:04 PM (GMT+02:00)


Russian jets bomb Georgian town of Gori

Latest developments Saturday, Aug. 9, 08
- Russian prime minister arrives in North Ossetia ---
- The Georgian president says his forces have repelled attacks in Abkhazia
- The foreign minister of Georgia’s second breakaway province Sergei Shamba said earier Abkhazian forces have launched air and artillery strikes to oust Georgian troops.
- Russian jets earlier bombed Georgian positions in Abkhazia’s Kodori Gorge.
- Medvedev tells Bush only way out of crisis is for Georgian troops to pull out of the conflict zone.
- Georgia claims shooting down of 10 Russian planes, destroying 30 tanks.
- Tbilisi parliament approves 15-day state of war and martial law.
- President Shaakashvili calls for a ceasefire.
- Bush said Georgia is a sovereign nation whose territorial integrity must be respected. Russia must stop bombing Georgian towns.
- He called on Russia and Georgia to stand their armies down, withdraw to the Aug. 6 status quo and support international mediation.
- Some 100,000 Russian troops are deployed to the troubled region.
- They include special forces from Moscow trained in combat behind enemy lines.
- They have taken the South Ossetian capital of Tskhinvali and are spreading across the region.
- All men aged 18-50 called to reserve duty as Georgia recalls 1,000 troops from Iraq.
- Russian fighters continue to pound the Georgian town of Gori.
- Local hospitals are overflowing with casualties. The region’s power, water and telephones are cut off.
- 30,000 refugees have fled the embattled region into Russia.
- Russian foreign minister Sergey Lavrov warned Georgia’s arms suppliers they will be held accountable for the South Ossetia situation.
DEBKAfile’s sources say this is directed at the United States and Israel.
- The two-day death toll in South Ossetia combat is estimated at 1,600.
- Russian jets struck Georgia’s Black Sea port of Poti, hitting container tanks, a naval base and military logistical center near a major pipeline from Baku.

Source:
http://www.debka.com/headline.php?hid=5498

---

Moscow ultimatum to Washington: Make Georgia move forces out of South Ossetia
DEBKAfile Special Analysis
August 9, 2008, 6:01 PM (GMT+02:00)

As Russian warplanes struck positions in Georgia’s second breakaway province of Abkhazia, Saturday, Aug. 9, President Dimitry Medvedev told President George W. Bush in a phone call that Georgia must withdraw its forces from South Ossetia for hostilities to end. Its leaders must also sign a legally binding document not to use force.

The virtual ultimatum was delivered in reply to the US president’s call on Russia to respect Georgian sovereign integrity and for both sides to accept international mediation.

After deploying 100,000 troops and armor to occupy most of South Ossetia and warplanes to blast the Georgian town of Gori and Black Sea port of Poti, Russia’s ambassador to NATO said Russia does not consider itself to be in a state of war and accused Georgia of ethnic cleansing.

As they spoke, the Abkhazian foreign minister Sergei Shamba announced that the secessionist province had launched air and artillery strikes to oust Georgian troops from its positions in the Kodori Gorge. Russian jets earlier bombed those positions. The Georgian president said his forces had successfully repelled those attacks.
DEBKAfile’s military analysts: Tiny Georgia with an army of less than 18,000, having been roundly defeated in South Ossetia, cannot hope to withstand the mighty Russian army in Abkhazia, even after initial successes. Therefore, President Mikhail Saakashvili, who was planning to join NATO, must consider both breakaway regions lost to Georgia and gained by Russia.

Moscow has thus achieved payback for the US-NATO success in detaching Kosovo from Serbia and approving its independence. The Russians have also signalled a warning to Ukraine, the Caucasus and Central Asia against joining up with the United States and the NATO bloc in areas which Moscow deems part of its strategic sphere of influence

After the severance of South Ossetia and Abkhazia from Georgia, four follow-up Russian steps may be postulated:
1. The two separatist provinces will proclaim their independence, just like Kosovo.
2. Russia will continue to exercise its overwhelming military and air might to force the pro-American Saakashvili’s capitulation.
3. The Georgian president cannot last long in office after suffering this major loss of territory and national humiliation. Moscow aims to make Washington swallow a pro-Russian successor.

4. Moscow’s South Ossetia-Abkhazia victory against Georgia and its Western backers will serve as an object lesson for Russia’s own secessionist provinces such as Chechnya, Dagestan and Ingushettia not to risk defying Russian armed might.

Source:
http://www.debka.com/article.php?aid=1358

---

Israel backs Georgia in Caspian Oil Pipeline Battle with Russia

DEBKAfile Exclusive Report

August 8, 2008


(IMG:http://www.debka.com/photos/1358.jpg) Georgian tanks and infantry, aided by Israeli military advisers, captured the capital of breakaway South Ossetia, Tskhinvali, early Friday, Aug. 8, bringing the Georgian-Russian conflict over the province to a military climax.
Russian prime minister Vladimir Putin threatened a “military response.”

Former Soviet Georgia called up its military reserves after Russian warplanes bombed its new positions in the renegade province.
In Moscow’s first response to the fall of Tskhinvali, president Dimitry Medvedev ordered the Russian army to prepare for a national emergency after calling the UN Security Council into emergency session early Friday.

Reinforcements were rushed to the Russian “peacekeeping force” present in the region to support the separatists.

Georgian tanks entered the capital after heavy overnight heavy aerial strikes, in which dozens of people were killed.

Lado Gurgenidze, Georgia's prime minister, said on Friday that Georgia will continue its military operation in South Ossetia until a "durable peace" is reached. "As soon as a durable peace takes hold we need to move forward with dialogue and peaceful negotiations."

DEBKAfile’s geopolitical experts note that on the surface level, the Russians are backing the separatists of S. Ossetia and neighboring Abkhazia as payback for the strengthening of American influence in tiny Georgia and its 4.5 million inhabitants. However, more immediately, the conflict has been sparked by the race for control over the pipelines carrying oil and gas out of the Caspian region.

The Russians may just bear with the pro-US Georgian president Mikhail Saakashvili’s ambition to bring his country into NATO. But they draw a heavy line against his plans and those of Western oil companies, including Israeli firms, to route the oil routes from Azerbaijan and the gas lines from Turkmenistan, which transit Georgia, through Turkey instead of hooking them up to Russian pipelines.

Saakashvili need only back away from this plan for Moscow to ditch the two provinces’ revolt against Tbilisi. As long as he sticks to his guns, South Ossetia and Abkhazia will wage separatist wars.

DEBKAfile discloses Israel’s interest in the conflict from its exclusive military sources:
Jerusalem owns a strong interest in Caspian oil and gas pipelines reach the Turkish terminal port of Ceyhan, rather than the Russian network. Intense negotiations are afoot between Israel Turkey, Georgia, Turkmenistan and Azarbaijan for pipelines to reach Turkey and thence to Israel’s oil terminal at Ashkelon and on to its Red Sea port of Eilat. From there, supertankers can carry the gas and oil to the Far East through the Indian Ocean.

Aware of Moscow’s sensitivity on the oil question, Israel offered Russia a stake in the project but was rejected.

Last year, the Georgian president commissioned from private Israeli security firms several hundred military advisers, estimated at up to 1,000, to train the Georgian armed forces in commando, air, sea, armored and artillery combat tactics. They also offer instruction on military intelligence and security for the central regime. Tbilisi also purchased weapons, intelligence and electronic warfare systems from Israel.

These advisers were undoubtedly deeply involved in the Georgian army’s preparations to conquer the South Ossetian capital Friday.

In recent weeks, Moscow has repeatedly demanded that Jerusalem halt its military assistance to Georgia, finally threatening a crisis in bilateral relations. Israel responded by saying that the only assistance rendered Tbilisi was “defensive.”

This has not gone down well in the Kremlin. Therefore, as the military crisis intensifies in South Ossetia, Moscow may be expected to punish Israel for its intervention.

[grizz]

Did the U.S. Prep Georgia for War with Russia?

By Nathan Hodge
August 08, 2008 | 12:52:00 PM

Georgia and Russia are careening towards war. And the U.S. isn't exactly a detached observer in the fight. The American military has been training and equipping Georgian troops for years.

The news thus far: Georgia, which has been locked in a drone war over the separatist enclave of Abkhazia, has launched an offensive to reclaim another breakaway territory, South Ossetia. Latest reports indicate that Georgian forces are laying siege to Tskhinvali, the South Ossetian capital. And Russia, which has backed the separatists, is sending in the tanks.

So why should we care? Oh, just the prospect of a larger regional war that could drag in Russia – and involve the United States as well. Since early 2002, the U.S. government has given a healthy amount of military aid to Georgia. When I last visited South Ossetia, Georgian troops manned a checkpoint outside Tskhinvali -- decked out in surplus U.S. Army uniforms and new body armor.

The first U.S. aid came under the rubric of the Georgia Train and Equip Program (ostensibly to counter alleged Al Qaeda influence in the Pankisi Gorge); then, under the Sustainment and Stability Operations Program. Georgia returned the favor, committing thousands of troops to the multi-national coalition in Iraq. Last fall, the Georgians doubled their contingent, making them the third-largest contributor to the coalition. Not bad for a nation of 4.6 million people.

Leaving aside the question of Russian interference (see below), the larger concern has been that Georgia might be tempted to use its newfound military prowess to resolve domestic conflicts by force.

As Sergei Shamba, the foreign affairs minister of Abkhazia, told me in 2006: “The Georgians are euphoric because they have been equipped, trained, that they have gained military experience in Iraq. It feeds this revanchist mood… How can South Ossetia be demilitarized, when all of Georgia is bristling with weaponry, and it’s only an hour’s ride by tank from Tbilisi to Tskhinvali?”

One of the U.S. military trainers put it to me a bit more bluntly. “We’re giving them the knife,” he said. “Will they use it?”


http://blog.wired.com/defense/2008/08/did-us-military.html

[grizz]

Sanders, here is the Georgian flag. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

(IMG:http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p9/chainlighting/nwo/GEOR0001.gif)

[painter]

Condoleezza was in Georgia "to discuss NATO" on July 10:

---

[painter]

Source:
http://www.opednews.com/articles/The-Russi...080808-700.html

---

August 8, 2008 at 22:36:47
The Russian Conflict In Georgia Could Make War With Iran More Probable

by William Cormier

Even though the Mainstream News Media has remained quiet on the issue, the United States sending two more aircraft carrier groups to the Middle-East is alarming at this stage of the failed negotiations between the Europeans, the United States, and Israel. Cheney has been outed for plotting to fabricate a reason for starting a war with Iran - par for the course for a Vice-President that openly shows his disgust for the American people; now, with two more carrier groups, another nuclear submarine, two (2) more U.S. destroyers, a supply ship, and who knows what else has entered the Persian Gulf unannounced:

‘2 US aircraft carriers headed for Gulf’


By ADAM GONN, THE MEDIA LINE NEWS AGENCY 8-7-08

Two additional United States naval aircraft carriers are heading to the Gulf and the Red Sea, according to the Kuwaiti newspaper Kuwait Times.

While the Kuwaiti daily did not name the ships it believed were heading for the Middle East, The Media Line’s defense analyst said they could be the USS Theodore Roosevelt and the USS Ronald Reagan.

Meanwhile, the Arabic news agency Moheet reported at the end of July that an unnamed American destroyer, accompanied by two Israeli naval vessels traveled through the Suez Canal from the Mediterranean. A week earlier, a US nuclear submarine accompanied by a destroyer and a supply ship moved into the Mediterranean, according to Moheet. More

Make no mistake, we have sent extra naval assets to the Middle-East before, and no attack occurred. That was before we found out that Dick Cheney was contemplating duplicating speed boats of the type the Iranians use, bring them into the Persian Gulf covertly, and then man them with heavily armed Navy Seals that would engage in a false-flag firefight with one or more of our ships in the Gulf to precipitate our entry into an Iran war. LINK This is common knowledge and is posted on numerous sites throughout the Internet. It’s extremely hard to avoid war when Darth Cheney is plotting behind the scenes to hatch a plan to force the U.S. into war with Iran, and the eventual outcome of his side-stepping the constitution and the rule of law are apt to cost countless innocent American and Iranian lives.

I have always maintained that if we attack Iran, there will be a furious amount of diplomacy going on behind the scenes between the U.S., Russia, and China - both of whom we would have to give up tremendous security issues to get them to covertly place their guarded blessings on a US/Israel attack on Iran. Right now, the stage is being set. Russia has sent tanks into Georgia LINK and have vowed to protect Russian interests and it looks as if a full-blown conflict/war could evolve from this situation, and the U.S. is currently backing Georgia. If this Iran attack does happen, you can bet that we will issue harsh warnings and a possible complaint through the U.N. Security Council, but other than that, our threats will be hollow. You have to give a little to get a little, and the dominoes seem to be falling into place.

What can we do to stop this war from being started? I honestly don’t have an answer to that, and our hope lies with our senior military commanders who have already spoke-out against starting a third war and have been adamant that war with Iran, at this time, is not in our best interests. Will these same commanders refuse to follow orders and retire immediately, or are we again at the mercy of George Bush and Dick Cheney? At this point, no one has a viable answer to those questions, however, sending the increased naval assets to the Persian Gulf when tensions are this high is asking for trouble - and we may find it, far more serious than any of us have been led to believe. This is a war that will be started because we’re protecting Israel’s interests, not our own, and that smacks of sedition to me. When we place the perceived paranoia and needs of another nation over the safety and welfare of US inhabitants, something is definitely rotten in the cookie jar!

We do have a slight hope, and that’s for all concerned Americans to light-up your Congressman’s phone(s), unabated, until you receive the answers you want to hear. Nothing good comes easy, and several times during the past couple of years, we have scored some major successes by banding together and fighting for a common cause. Keeping the Middle-East “stable” appears to be important to all of us, as a disruption of the oil coming out of that area could plunge our economy into a downward spiral that could take generations to recover from - if its salvageable at all!

Today The Washington Post released a study that indicates even though an attack on Iran might take place, it has serious doubts of actually being successful - and the end result of such an attack may guarantee that Iran will pursue and obtain the “bomb” out of frustration and nationalism that would materialize from any large-scale attack directed at Iran:

Study Cautions Against Strike on Iran’s Nuclear Facilities

By Joby Warrick
Washington Post Staff Writer
Friday, August 8, 2008

A military strike against Iran’s nuclear facilities would probably only delay the country’s progress toward nuclear-weapons capability, according to a study that concludes that such an attack could backfire by strengthening Tehran’s resolve to acquire the bomb.

The analysis by the Washington-based Institute for Science and International Security found that Iran’s uranium facilities are too widely dispersed and protected — and, in some cases, concealed too well — to be effectively destroyed by warplanes. And any damage to the country’s nuclear program could be quickly repaired.

“Following an attack, Iran could quickly rebuild its centrifuge program in small, easily hidden facilities focused on making weapon-grade uranium for nuclear weapons,” said principal author David Albright, ISIS president and a former U.N. weapons inspector. MUCH MORE

From this writer’s perspective, an attack on Iran either by Israel with the United States aiding in the attack, or a unilateral attack on Iran by the U.S. has consequences that far outweigh the benefits of such an attack that are guaranteed to finish-off our economy, usher in martial law, and could lead to World War III if the U.S. proceeds without the tacit approval of Russia and China. As tensions increase, and even Pakistan becomes unstable, there’s a chance that an Iranian War could set the whole Middle-East on fire as has been foretold countless times.

Most Americans have no idea the situation is this serious, lulled into complacency by a MSM that still refuses to address issues that are vital to our national security and ability to maintain the democratic republic we live in - all of whom are controlled by corporate interests whose agenda is contrary to that of the American people. The terms “treason” and “subversion” are thrown around lately describing several government activities - however, none of them would be possible without the complicity of the MSM; their crimes border on both of the above for failing to uphold their journalistic duty that a free press has traditionally been charged with but is now nothing more than an extension of the Pentagon’s propaganda system. A free press is tantamount in keeping our government in check, but the way the press works now, it’s not “free” - but bought and sold as if it was simply another commodity. When we press our Congress for answers, if we do not challenge and “out” the MSM for being the corporate whores they are, there’s no question that we are ignoring one of the core problems that our society faces in a nation that is turning towards fascism and an MSM which condones and abets their (the government) conspiracy.

The future for all of us hangs on by a thread; we will either attack Iran and finish-off our economy and be embroiled in several years of more unnecessary war or we will band together in solidarity and demand that our voices are heard. This is an individual choice, one that everyone needs to make, and those who choose to do nothing will reap what they have sown as gas and food prices begin their upward trend directly after the 2008 Presidential elections. The lowering of fuel prices is no accident, but engineered by the GOP to take our minds off of critical issues that are destroying the American way of life. Don’t be fooled and don’t be lulled into complacency just because we have a short respite from being raped at the gas pumps and grocery stores, as this is only the calm before the storm. Look ahead, examine the lies we’ve already been told, and demand, today and until we receive a satisfactory answer - that Congress and our electoral process work for the people rather than against us, and remember that the GOP has proven themselves to be enemies of freedom and prosperity except for the chosen few that inhabit the ranks of the wealthy and elitists who are busy destroying the American Dream.

William Cormier

[liberty-911]

Is this, but not another Distraction away from the Legal Truth?

Article V
The Congress, whenever two thirds of both houses shall deem it necessary, shall propose amendments to this Constitution, or, on the application of the legislatures of two thirds of the several states, shall call a convention for proposing amendments, which, in either case, shall be valid to all intents and purposes, as part of this Constitution, when ratified by the legislatures of three fourths of the several states, or by conventions in three fourths thereof, as the one or the other mode of ratification may be proposed by the Congress; provided that no amendment which may be made prior to the year one thousand eight hundred and eight shall in any manner affect the first and fourth clauses in the ninth section of the first article; and that no state, without its consent, shall be deprived of its equal suffrage in the Senate.
This, Contract is and as still written, see above and signed in 1787! (In Colonial English).

2/3rd of Congress, both Houses; must Amend the Constitution.

3/4th of all State Legislators must Ratify the Amendment as written; or
3/4th of all State Conventions, must Ratify the Amendment as written.

ALSO

2/3rd of all State Conventions must Amendment the U.S. Constitution.

3/4th of all State Legislators must Ratify the Amendment as written; or
3/4th of all State Conventions, must Ratify the Amendment as written.

This is our Republic, 3/4th Ratification needed to Change this Contract.
This is Not a Democracy = 51 votes to 49 votes needed to Change this Contract.

This Contract has not Changed, as recorded since 1992, Why?

Yet, Article V and Article VI have been slowly, Abolished over the Years.

Constitutional Rights are NOW considered Privileges by Federal and State Laws.

The Bill of Rights protects; all the Articles unless Destroyed by Federal and State Laws.

The Declaration of Independence protects; “We the People”
Unless Destroyed by Federal and State Laws.

Our Republic protects our Borders, and only grows by Mutual Consent,
Not by Forced Wars to create a new Democracy since “We the People” are a Republic!

The complete Destruction of Article V of this Legal Contract;

Will completely Destroy all lesser Contracts, Bank, Mortgage, Insurance, Stock,
Social Security, Retirement, Marriage and all Contracts signed within U.S. Boundaries.
All Null and Void, just as the U.S. Constitution is now Null and Void. This is Subversion.
Refer to the Declaration of Independence or a new Declaration of Individual States!

States must resolve this Union that violates Truth, Justice and our U.S. Constitution.
Interest Free Coin, borrowed from the U.S. Treasury is the LAW!
Where is the Constitutional Proof to Change this specific Constitutional Right?

There is NONE, Folks.

The Georgia attack against Russia is just another Distraction financied by the
World Banks and all of there Private Property Owners creating, International Property
Ownership and all Holdings etc. have almost completely Destroyed our complete U.S. Constitution.
This is Why We Fight Wars, To Avoid The Truth of obvious Constitutional Violations.

To allow these above Crimes against our Government to continue, both
At the Federal and State Levels is the Ultimate Crime against AMERICA.
FIND YOUR TRUTH.

This post has been edited by painter: Aug 9 2008, 08:55 PM

[liberty-911]

The First Solution To This Problem:

Is in front of your face, Shut Down The Federal Reserve Bank.

That Loans all Money To Our U.S. Treasury Including INTEREST.
Who said this monetary correction is going to be Easy?

Not, me.

Ounces of Humanity for Pounds of Flesh.

Soon this Truth will confront these Lies.

Guess Who will Win at the End?

Is your Wagon Prepared?

This post has been edited by liberty-911: Aug 9 2008, 08:52 PM

[painter]

Is this, but not another Distraction away from the Legal Truth?

liberty, if you can't make a distinction between participating in this forum and spamming it, we'll have to make it for you. Is that what you want? Your post is off topic to this thread and I've spoilered it for that reason. If you want to start a thread on that topic, fine, do so in the appropriate forum and leave it at that.

[liberty-911]

The Georgia attack against Russia is just another Distraction financied by the
World Banks and all of there Private Property Owners creating, International Property
Ownership and all Holdings etc. have almost completely Destroyed our complete U.S. Constitution.
This is Why We Fight Wars, To Avoid The Truth of obvious Constitutional Violations.

To allow these above Crimes against our Government to continue, both
At the Federal and State Levels is the Ultimate Crime against AMERICA.


So this is off topic?

This spam is a message for everyone to prepare.

There is Nothing left for me to Say!

Except, may the Force of Truth be with you all.

Over and Out.

[painter]

. . .
So this is off topic?
. . .

I don't disagree with your analysis but that isn't the point. This thread's topic is news, information and commentary about the conflict that is emerging in the Georgia region. That this conflict and all conflicts are rooted in the World Banking system a GIVEN so far as I'm concerned. Again, you are welcome -- encouraged, in fact -- to start threads on your own topics, explaining to people who may not know WHY World Bank interests are behind all such conflicts. Great. Go for it. But when you cut and past long excerpts from the Constitution or what have you into a thread like this it is a distraction. It is clutter. It makes it more difficult for people to grasp the significance of what is going on. Now, if you want to do some unique research and show the LINKS between specific WB interests and THIS conflict, which may very well go global, FINE!

If you don't understand what I'm asking you to do, please PM me because I don't want to keep taking this thread further off topic with meta-commentary.