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Yes, I Like Barack Obama..., am I the only one?

pagypsy
post Dec 10 2007, 03:06 PM
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I've really tried to see what everybody finds so appealing about Ron Paul... but sorry, I just don't get it.

On the other hand, Barack Obama comes across as very sincere, and I don't think he could or would be sold. I believe he has no hidden agenda, nor is he interested in trying to deceive the American people into thinking he's something that he's not.

Aside from his views on 9/11, what's not to like? Yes, I know the 9/11 issue is a big one. But I'm thinking it's too big of a cause for any one guy to fight on his own, and succeed. It's just too corrupt beyond imagination and quite frankly, I have given up all hope that the truth about 9/11 truth will ever see the light of day. Like the Kennedy assassination, I'm afraid it will just fade into history without bringing the true criminals to justice.

So back to Barack Obama spinstar.gif ... am I the only Obama supporter on this forum? I'm really interested in what others think about him.

This post has been edited by pagypsy: Dec 10 2007, 03:07 PM
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UnderTow
post Dec 10 2007, 05:28 PM
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Who's Barack Obama?
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UnderTow
post Dec 10 2007, 05:32 PM
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Oh, never mind.

"Barack Obama" Israel

Yep, I don't like him.

QUOTE
I don't think he could or would be sold


Too late, already sold.
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UnderTow
post Dec 10 2007, 05:35 PM
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This piece is especially nice

How Barack Obama learned to love Israel

QUOTE
I first met Democratic presidential hopeful Senator Barack Obama almost ten years ago when, as my representative in the Illinois state senate, he came to speak at the University of Chicago. He impressed me as progressive, intelligent and charismatic. I distinctly remember thinking "if only a man of this calibre could become president one day."

On Friday Obama gave a speech to the American Israel Public Affairs Committee (AIPAC) in Chicago. It had been much anticipated in American Jewish political circles which buzzed about his intensive efforts to woo wealthy pro-Israel campaign donors who up to now have generally leaned towards his main rival Senator Hillary Clinton.

Reviewing the speech, Ha'aretz Washington correspondent Shmuel Rosner concluded that Obama "sounded as strong as Clinton, as supportive as Bush, as friendly as Giuliani. At least rhetorically, Obama passed any test anyone might have wanted him to pass. So, he is pro-Israel. Period."

Israel is "our strongest ally in the region and its only established democracy," Obama said, assuring his audience that "we must preserve our total commitment to our unique defence relationship with Israel by fully funding military assistance and continuing work on the Arrow and related missile defence programs." Such advanced multi-billion dollar systems he asserted, would help Israel "deter missile attacks from as far as Tehran and as close as Gaza." As if the starved, besieged and traumatized population of Gaza are about to develop intercontinental ballistic missiles.

Obama offered not a single word of criticism of Israel, of its relentless settlement and wall construction, of the closures that make life unlivable for millions of Palestinians.


Nuff said. Obama is the suck sauce and he can turn to dust for all I care. Sorry.
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pagypsy
post Dec 10 2007, 06:16 PM
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I don't buy it at all.
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Lasthorseman
post Dec 10 2007, 08:23 PM
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He is the one who is going to be most like the recently "elected" Deval Patrick, governor of my home state mAssachusetts. Once in office look out.
For a clearer take on what I can "see" keep in mind the concepts presented by sites like this.
www.projectcensored.org
Ask yourself why these topics never ever see the light of day in debates on "issues". They are all New World Order "selectees".
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UnderTow
post Dec 10 2007, 11:07 PM
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QUOTE (pagypsy @ Dec 10 2007, 05:16 PM)
I don't buy it at all.

Your not 'sold'? biggrin.gif

I can not argue the Internet. There's a difference between knowing the path, and walking the path.

tongue.gif
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pagypsy
post Dec 11 2007, 11:10 AM
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QUOTE (UnderTow @ Dec 10 2007, 05:35 PM)
This piece is especially nice

exactly why I don't "buy it"... those search results point to nothing more than "pieces" of stories, not facts, taken out of context to spin somebody's point of view.
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UnderTow
post Dec 11 2007, 12:14 PM
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Did Obabma in fact say this:
QUOTE
Israel is "our strongest ally in the region and its only established democracy," Obama said, assuring his audience that "we must preserve our total commitment to our unique defense relationship with Israel by fully funding military assistance and continuing work on the Arrow and related missile defense programs." Such advanced multi-billion dollar systems he asserted, would help Israel "deter missile attacks from as far as Tehran and as close as Gaza."
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pagypsy
post Dec 11 2007, 01:34 PM
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This is what he said in it's complete context:
http://www.barackobama.com/2007/03/02/aipac_policy_forum.php


AIPAC Policy Forum
Chicago, IL | March 02, 2007

Thank you so much for your kind introduction and the invitation to meet with you this morning.

Last week, this event was described to me as a small gathering of friends. Looking at all of you here today; seeing so many of you who care about peace in this world; who care about a strong and lasting friendship between Israel and the United States, and who care about what's on the next page of our shared futures, I think "a small gathering of friends" fits this crowd just right.

I want to begin today by telling you a story.

Back in January of 2006, I made my first trip to the Holy Land. It is a place unlike any other on this earth - a place filled with so much promise of what we truly can be as people; a place where we've learned how in a flash, violence and hatred and intolerance can turn that promise to rubble and send too many lives to their early graves.

Most will travel to the holy sites: the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, the Dome of the Rock or the Western Wall. They make a journey to be humbled before God. I too am blessed to have seen Israel this way, up close and on the ground.

But I am also fortunate to have seen Israel from the air.

On my journey that January day, I flew on an IDF helicopter to the border zone. The helicopter took us over the most troubled and dangerous areas and that narrow strip between the West Bank and the Mediterranean Sea. At that height, I could see the hills and the terrain that generations have walked across. I could truly see how close everything is and why peace through security is the only way for Israel.

Our helicopter landed in the town of Kiryat Shmona on the border. What struck me first about the village was how familiar it looked. The houses and streets looked like ones you might find in a suburb in America. I could imagine young children riding their bikes down the streets. I could imagine the sounds of their joyful play just like my own daughters. There were cars in the driveway. The shrubs were trimmed. The families were living their lives.

Then, I saw a house that had been hit with one of Hezbollah's Katyusha rockets.

The family who lived in the house was lucky to be alive. They had been asleep in another part when the rocket hit. They described the explosion. They talked about the fire and the shrapnel. They spoke about what might have been if the rocket had come screaming into their home at another time when they weren't asleep but sitting peacefully in the now destroyed part of the house.

It is an experience I keep close to my heart. Not because it is unique, but because we know that too many others have seen the same kind of destruction, have lost their loved ones to suicide bombers and live in fear of when the next attack might hit. Just six months after I visited, Hezbollah launched four thousand rocket attacks just like the one that destroyed the home in Kiryat Shmona, and kidnapped Israeli service members. And we pray for all of the service members who have been kidnapped: Gilad Shalit, Eldad Regev, and Ehud Goldwasser, and I met with his family this week. I offered to help in any way I can.

It is important to remember this history-that Israel had unilaterally withdrawn from Lebanon only to have Iran supply Hezbollah with thousands of rockets.

Our job is to never forget that the threat of violence is real. Our job is to renew the United States' efforts to help Israel achieve peace with its neighbors while remaining vigilant against those who do not share this vision. Our job is to do more than lay out another road map; our job is to rebuild the road to real peace and lasting security throughout the region.

That effort begins with a clear and strong commitment to the security of Israel: our strongest ally in the region and its only established democracy. That will always be my starting point. And when we see all of the growing threats in the region: from Iran to Iraq to the resurgence of al-Qaeda to the reinvigoration of Hamas and Hezbollah, that loyalty and that friendship will guide me as we begin to lay the stones that will build the road that takes us from the current instability to lasting peace and security.

It won't be easy. Some of those stones will be heavy and tough for the United States to carry. Others with be heavy and tough for Israel to carry. And even more will be difficult for the world. But together, we will begin again.

One of the heavy stones that currently rest at the United States' feet is Iraq. Until we lift this burden from our foreign policy, we cannot rally the world to our values and vision.

As many of you know, I opposed this war from the beginning - in part because I believed that giving this President the open-ended authority to invade Iraq would lead to the open-ended occupation we find ourselves in today.

Now our soldiers find themselves in the crossfire of someone else's civil war. More than 3,100 have given the last full measure of devotion to their country. This war has fueled terrorism and helped galvanize terrorist organizations. And it has made the world less safe.

That is why I advocate a phased redeployment of U.S. troops out of Iraq to begin no later than May first with the goal of removing all combat forces from Iraq by March 2008. In a civil war where no military solution exists, this redeployment remains our best leverage to pressure the Iraqi government to achieve the political settlement between its warring factions that can slow the bloodshed and promote stability.

My plan also allows for a limited number of U.S. troops to remain and prevent Iraq from becoming a haven for international terrorism and reduce the risk of all-out chaos. In addition, we will redeploy our troops to other locations in the region, reassuring our allies that we will stay engaged in the Middle East. And my plan includes a robust regional diplomatic strategy that includes talking to Syria and Iran - something this Administration has finally embraced.

The U.S. military has performed valiantly and brilliantly in Iraq. Our troops have done all that we have asked them to do and more. But a consequence of the Administration's failed strategy in Iraq has been to strengthen Iran's strategic position; reduce U.S. credibility and influence in the region; and place Israel and other nations friendly to the United States in greater peril. These are not the signs of a well-paved road. It is time for profound change.

As the U.S. redeploys from Iraq, we can recapture lost influence in the Middle East. We can refocus our efforts to critical, yet neglected priorities, such as combating international terrorism and winning the war in Afghanistan. And we can, then, more effectively deal with one of the greatest threats to the United States, Israel and world peace: Iran.

Iran's President Ahmadinejad's regime is a threat to all of us. His words contain a chilling echo of some of the world's most tragic history.

Unfortunately, history has a terrible way of repeating itself. President Ahmadinejad has denied the Holocaust. He held a conference in his country, claiming it was a myth. But we know the Holocaust was as real as the 6 million who died in mass graves at Buchenwald, or the cattle cars to Dachau or whose ashes clouded the sky at Auschwitz. We have seen the pictures. We have walked the halls of the Holocaust museum in Washington and Yad Vashem. We have touched the tattoos on loved-ones arms. After 60 years, it is time to deny the deniers.

In the 21st century, it is unacceptable that a member state of the United Nations would openly call for the elimination of another member state. But that is exactly what he has done. Neither Israel nor the United States has the luxury of dismissing these outrages as mere rhetoric.

The world must work to stop Iran's uranium enrichment program and prevent Iran from acquiring nuclear weapons. It is far too dangerous to have nuclear weapons in the hands of a radical theocracy. And while we should take no option, including military action, off the table, sustained and aggressive diplomacy combined with tough sanctions should be our primary means to prevent Iran from building nuclear weapons.

Iranian nuclear weapons would destabilize the region and could set off a new arms race. Some nations in the region, such as Egypt, Saudi Arabia and Turkey, could fall away from restraint and rush into a nuclear contest that could fuel greater instability in the region-that's not just bad for the Middle East, but bad for the world, making it a vastly more dangerous and unpredictable place. Other nations would feel great pressure to accommodate Iranian demands. Terrorist groups with Iran's backing would feel emboldened to act even more brazenly under an Iranian nuclear umbrella. And as the A.Q. Kahn network in Pakistan demonstrated, Iran could spread this technology around the world.

To prevent this worst-case scenario, we need the United States to lead tough-minded diplomacy.

This includes direct engagement with Iran similar to the meetings we conducted with the Soviets at the height of the Cold War, laying out in clear terms our principles and interests. Tough-minded diplomacy would include real leverage through stronger sanctions. It would mean more determined U.S diplomacy at the United Nations. It would mean harnessing the collective power of our friends in Europe who are Iran's major trading partners. It would mean a cooperative strategy with Gulf States who supply Iran with much of the energy resources it needs. It would mean unifying those states to recognize the threat of Iran and increase pressure on Iran to suspend uranium enrichment. It would mean full implementation of U.S. sanctions laws. And over the long term, it would mean a focused approach from us to finally end the tyranny of oil, and develop our own alternative sources of energy to drive the price of oil down.

We must also persuade other nations such as Saudi Arabia to recognize common interests with Israel in dealing with Iran. We should stress to the Egyptians that they help the Iranians and do themselves no favors by failing to adequately prevent the smuggling of weapons and cash by Iran into Gaza.

The United States' leverage is strengthened when we have many nations with us. It puts us in a place where sanctions could actually have a profound impact on Iran's economy. Iran is highly dependent on imports and foreign investment, credit and technology. And an environment where our allies see that these types of investments in Iran are not in the world's best interests, could help bring Iran to the table.

We have no quarrel with the Iranian people. They know that President Ahamadinejad is reckless, irresponsible, and inattentive to their day-to-day needs which is why they sent him a rebuke at the ballot box this fall. And we hope more of them will speak out. There is great hope in their ability to see his hatred for what it is: hatred and a threat to peace in the region.

At the same time, we must preserve our total commitment to our unique defense relationship with Israel by fully funding military assistance and continuing work on the Arrow and related missile defense programs. This would help Israel maintain its military edge and deter and repel attacks from as far as Tehran and as close as Gaza.

And when Israel is attacked, we must stand up for Israel's legitimate right to defend itself. Last summer, Hezbollah attacked Israel. By using Lebanon as an outpost for terrorism, and innocent people as shields, Hezbollah has also engulfed that entire nation in violence and conflict, and threatened the fledgling movement for democracy there. That's why we have to press for enforcement of U.N. Security Council Resolution 1701, which demands the cessation of arms shipments to Hezbollah, a resolution which Syria and Iran continue to disregard. Their support and shipment of weapons to Hezbollah and Hamas, which threatens the peace and security in the region, must end.
These are great challenges that we face. And in moments like these, true allies do not walk away. For six years, the administration has missed opportunities to increase the United States' influence in the region and help Israel achieve the peace she wants and the security she needs. The time has come for us to seize those opportunities.

The Israeli people, and Prime Minister Olmert, have made clear that they are more than willing to negotiate an end to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict that will result in two states living side by side in peace and security. But the Israelis must trust that they have a true Palestinian partner for peace. That is why we must strengthen the hands of Palestinian moderates who seek peace and that is why we must maintain the isolation of Hamas and other extremists who are committed to Israel's destruction.

The U.S. and our partners have put before Hamas three very simple conditions to end this isolation: recognize Israel's right to exist; renounce the use of violence; and abide by past agreements between Israel and the Palestinian Authority.

We should all be concerned about the agreement negotiated among Palestinians in Mecca last month. The reports of this agreement suggest that Hamas, Fatah, and independent ministers would sit in a government together, under a Hamas Prime Minister, without any recognition of Israel, without a renunciation of violence, and with only an ambiguous promise to "respect" previous agreements.

This should concern us all because it suggests that Mahmoud Abbas, who is a Palestinian leader I believe is committed to peace, felt forced to compromise with Hamas. However, if we are serious about the Quartet's conditions, we must tell the Palestinians this is not good enough.

But as I said at the outset, Israel will have some heavy stones to carry as well. Its history has been full of tough choices in search of peace and security.

Yitzhak Rabin had the vision to reach out to longtime enemies. Ariel Sharon had the determination to lead Israel out of Gaza. These were difficult, painful decisions that went to the heart of Israel's identity as a nation.

Many Israelis I talked to during my visit last year told me that they were prepared to make sacrifices to give their children a chance to know peace. These were people of courage who wanted a better life. And I know these are difficult times and it can be easy to lose hope. But we owe it to our sons and daughters, our mothers and fathers, and to all those who have fallen, to keep searching for peace and security -- even though it can seem distant. This search is in the best interests of Israel. It is in the best interests of the United States. It is in the best interests of all of us.

We can and we should help Israelis and Palestinians both fulfill their national goals: two states living side by side in peace and security. Both the Israeli and Palestinian people have suffered from the failure to achieve this goal. The United States should leave no stone unturned in working to make that goal a reality.

But in the end, we also know that we should never seek to dictate what is best for the Israelis and their security interests. No Israeli Prime Minister should ever feel dragged to or blocked from the negotiating table by the United States.

We must be partners - we must be active partners. Diplomacy in the Middle East cannot be done on the cheap. Diplomacy is measured by patience and effort. We cannot continue to have trips consisting of little more than photo-ops with little movement in between. Neither Israel nor the U.S. is served by this approach.

Peace with security. That is the Israeli people's overriding wish.

It is what I saw in the town of Fassouta on the border with Lebanon.


There are 3,000 residents of different faiths and histories. There is a community center supported by Chicago's own Roman Catholic Archdiocese and the Jewish Federation of Metro Chicago. It is where the education of the next generation has begun: in a small village, all faiths and nationalities, living together with mutual respect.

I met with the people from the village and they gave me a tour of this wonderful place. There was a moment when the young girls came in and they played music and began to dance.

After a few moments, I thought about my own daughters, Sasha and Malia and how they too could dream and dance in a place like this: a place of renewal and restoration. Proof, that in the heart of so much peril, there were signs of life and hope and promise-that the universal song for peace plays on.
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UnderTow
post Dec 11 2007, 02:41 PM
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The context you speak of makes me puke.

Do you really believe all that bile?


Okay, so the Israel subject and Obama are okay with you and you find no problems with his view?

QUOTE (OB)
one of the greatest threats to the United States, Israel and world peace: Iran.


Do you agree with this? I do not.

I think OB should leave the US, immigrate to Israel, and work on their problems there. And never come back. We don't need him here.
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pagypsy
post Dec 11 2007, 04:20 PM
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QUOTE (UnderTow @ Dec 11 2007, 02:41 PM)
Okay, so the Israel subject and Obama are okay with you and you find no problems with his view?

QUOTE (OB)
one of the greatest threats to the United States, Israel and world peace: Iran.


Do you agree with this? I do not.


Look, I appreciate your comments. Afterall, I did ask for them. So pardon my ignorance, as I am fairly new to this whole truth movement and have not fully digested all the info that many of you have known about for some time. Basically, what I'm saying is that I'm still "learning" all about the history of events. Up until I read your passionate comments, yes, I did believe all that bile. But now you have me wondering what is the issue with Israel? I don't get it, and perhaps it's too much to explain to a newbie like me, so just point me in the right direction. I need a starting point or something... anything. geez
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UnderTow
post Dec 11 2007, 04:52 PM
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No worries mate. We're just having a friendly chat smile.gif

Please don't imply that I'm jumping on you or bashing or anything. Just trying to help.

QUOTE
But now you have me wondering what is the issue with Israel? I don't get it, and perhaps it's too much to explain to a newbie like me, so just point me in the right direction. I need a starting point or something... anything. geez


Your right, there is a lot to it and it would be hard to try and completely explain all there is to know. I'm sure I would fail if I tried.
I guess you could start just about anywhere. But why not start here if you're ready:
WRH Israel Archives
WRH Israel Defies UN Archives
WRH Israel Spying Archives

Other then that, the world (internet) is your oyster biggrin.gif
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pagypsy
post Dec 11 2007, 05:02 PM
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okay, I will check out those links and more. Thank you.

But let me ask you this about that. (buckle up--lol) Isn't it possible, that just maybe Barack Obama is just as clueless (as me) about the Israeli issue? Right now (before reading up on anything), he really seems like an honest guy with all the right intentions.

-- off to read all about it.
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chucksheen
post Dec 11 2007, 09:29 PM
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Thanks for the honesty. I didn't get "it" at first until I learned a few things.

Didn't Obama vote for The Patriot Act?

Isn't he a member of the CFR?

Isn't the CFR bent on destroying the sovereignty of the USA, squelching The Charters of Freedom and sacrificing our rights for security?

Isn't Michelle Obama a local Chicago CFR member?

In regards to Ron Paul. I beg you to please consider listening to the following podcast of 'IntelStrikeReport' with Michael Badnarik on 11/28/07. Skip to around 20 minutes and enjoy a lesson on rights vs privelages and why Ron Paul is the ONLY choice for a Constitutional Republic, checks and balances, seperation of powers, etc. Share your thoughts afterwards.

http://intelstrike.com/radio/?p=5

In the show Michael Badnarik references the following chapter 2 in his book "Good To Be King"


http://www.constitutionpreservation.org/assets/chapter2.pdf

Ron Paul is the only choice if you agree with the following page:
http://www.kytty.com/~walt/The%20Rights%20...Government.html

Must have DVD - http://RonPaulDVD.com

This post has been edited by chucksheen: Dec 11 2007, 09:32 PM
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pagypsy
post Dec 12 2007, 11:45 AM
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QUOTE (chucksheen @ Dec 11 2007, 09:29 PM)
Thanks for the honesty.  I didn't get "it" at first until I learned a few things.

Didn't Obama vote for The Patriot Act?

Isn't he a member of the CFR?

Isn't the CFR bent on destroying the sovereignty of the USA, squelching The Charters of Freedom and sacrificing our rights for security?

Isn't Michelle Obama a local Chicago CFR member?

In regards to Ron Paul.  I beg you to please consider listening to the following podcast of 'IntelStrikeReport' with Michael Badnarik on 11/28/07.  Skip to around 20 minutes and enjoy a lesson on rights vs privelages and why Ron Paul is the ONLY choice for a Constitutional Republic, checks and balances, seperation of powers, etc.  Share your thoughts afterwards.

--------------------------------------------------------

Ron Paul is the only choice if you agree with the following page:
http://www.kytty.com/~walt/The%20Rights%20...Government.html

Well, let me the first one to say WTF was I thinking?! WOW, wow, wow, is all I can say.

I'm in the middle of listening to the broadcast right now. And I must say I'm not a fan of wearing a yellow cattle tag in my ear nonono.gif Seriously though, this is a very educational broadcast so far....

The link in the quoted message does not work for me. I will try again later in case it's just a server issue. Also, I wanted to download the RP DVD's (since Disc 1 is sold out) but the links to do that don't work either. Is there somewhere else I can get them?

-------------------------------

This post has been edited by pagypsy: Dec 12 2007, 12:20 PM
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TruthgoneWild
post Dec 12 2007, 05:17 PM
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QUOTE (chucksheen @ Dec 11 2007, 08:29 PM)
Isn't he a member of the CFR?

He is not, but his wife is a member of CFR. And guess who wears the pants in his home? The woman.

Obama thumbdown.gif

America has had its fill of inexperienced puppets running our country, its time for a change, its time for Ron Paul.

To the original poster, If you don't agree with limited government and liberty, you don't belong in this country.

This post has been edited by TruthgoneWild: Dec 12 2007, 05:18 PM
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pagypsy
post Dec 12 2007, 06:18 PM
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QUOTE (TruthgoneWild @ Dec 12 2007, 05:17 PM)
He is not, but his wife is a member of CFR. And guess who wears the pants in his home? The woman.

To the original poster, If you don't agree with limited government and liberty, you don't belong in this country.

What a charming first post to this forum.

To TruthgoneWild: Whether or not I agree with you and/or your concepts is not a requirement to live in this country. Nor is it a requirement for the man to wear the pants in the family. WTF? It's now the 21st century, and you seem to think it's still the 1940's. Maybe YOU'RE the one who should leave this country and move to a country where they still treat women like second class citizens.

This post has been edited by pagypsy: Dec 12 2007, 06:52 PM
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Roxdog
post Dec 17 2007, 01:36 PM
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QUOTE (TruthgoneWild @ Dec 12 2007, 09:17 PM)
He is not, but his wife is a member of CFR.

I keep hearing that is the case but his bio is on thier website, he makes speeches there and has written stuff for their publication. I've heard he is indeed a member.....but who knows. If he gets the nomination and shows up at Bilderberg nest year we know who will win. Of course...Hillary was reportedly there this year...

QUOTE
Well, let me the first one to say WTF was I thinking?! WOW, wow, wow, is all I can say.

I'm in the middle of listening to the broadcast right now. And I must say I'm not a fan of wearing a yellow cattle tag in my ear  Seriously though, this is a very educational broadcast so far....

The link in the quoted message does not work for me. I will try again later in case it's just a server issue. Also, I wanted to download the RP DVD's (since Disc 1 is sold out) but the links to do that don't work either. Is there somewhere else I can get them?

This post made my day!! cheers.gif salute.gif
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pagypsy
post Dec 18 2007, 03:30 PM
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...thought I might follow up on my original post(s).

No longer am I planning on voting for Barack Obama. I have done some (further) research on his speeches, etc. and quite honestly, it's all a bit unsettling. Again, I will state, WTF was I thinking? ah, the uninformed mind. For some reason, it went right over my head that he is all for the Patriot Act; and that right there is enough to cancel my vote for him. I guess I was caught up in his projected "authenticity" & Hope for Change BS.
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