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Question about structural beams, and columns ;)

Leslie Landry
post May 23 2008, 01:50 PM
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QUOTE (Sanders @ May 23 2008, 01:11 PM) *
I haven't read this whole thread (just the last few posts actually), so forgive me if I'm not on the same page .... but there almost certainly wasn't any melting of any steel that day. Steven Jones' research and the evidence he has presented all point to the use of Thermite to cut columns (or, specifically Thermate). Steel beams sticking up out of the rubble with 45 degree cuts slobbered with slag, or bright orange lava-like stuff pouring out of the side of the building in that video clip does (less than) nothing to disuade me from agreeing with his conclusion of course rolleyes.gif .

But that stuff ain't steel - it's molten Iron. Molten iron and aluminum oxide (emmited as a cloud of whitish-grey dust) are the two main by-products (along with extreme heat) of the Thermite/Thermate chemical reaction.


lol Well, dito...i have only read your post to be quite honest..i want wanted to write this before i forgot.

OK..so, i need to get what you are saying more clearly...and if i say it wrong..please correct me. Are you saying that it was determind by Alex Jones that it was not a C.D. and infact, the Molten Metal found was from taking down the rest of the building??
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Leslie Landry
post May 23 2008, 02:04 PM
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well it seems to me that i didnt really miss too much except a little bit of debating back and forth....nothing wrong with keeping the excitment going in here lol
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dMz
post May 23 2008, 05:39 PM
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Yes Leslie,

Except one side of the debate is:

noob.gif troll.gif and lame.gif

They apparently no longer will:
bait.gif

They've been known to use:
spin.gif and bullshit.gif

So I:
idea.gif
box.gif

Got:
popcorn.gif?
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dMz
post May 25 2008, 01:05 PM
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This is already listed (as the 3rd of my "related info" links above), but it is in a lengthy, technical post. This information deserves extraction and repeating here though:

From:
http://www.tms.org/pubs/journals/JOM/0711/banovic-0711.html

"Although many of the individual recovered elements are rather large, the collection represents less than 0.5 % of the more than 200,000 tons of steel used in the buildings.
...
Because of their high strength, the steels used in the exterior wall columns are not ordinary construction steels. A typical high-rise building might use steel of only three strength grades, based on minimum yield strength (FY). In contrast, the WTC structural plans specified steels that began at a minimum yield strength FY = 36 ksi and increased from FY = 40 ksi to FY = 85 ksi in 5 ksi (34.5 MPa) increments. Corner elements in the exterior wall often used FY = 100 ksi steels. Contemporaneous construction documents indicate that the lowest strength exterior wall column steels were supplied to the ASTM A 36 standard, but all the steels with strengths above that value conformed to proprietary grades that the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey, the building owner, authorized. Yawata Iron and Steel, now Nippon Steel, supplied most of the steel plate for the exterior wall columns. The plate that faced the interior of the building usually came from a domestic mill, however.

Japanese and British mills supplied most of the steel for the core columns. These plates and hot-rolled, wide-flange shapes were mostly FY = 36 ksi ASTM A 36. Little information survived about which steel mills supplied the core beams.

The floor truss angles and webs were specified to a mixture of ASTM A 36 and ASTM A 242. The latter is a high-strength, low-alloy (HSLA) steel, though the composition limits in the WTC construction era differ from those of the standard today. Even when the plans called for A 36, the mill often supplied an HSLA steel with substantially higher yield strength."

-----
My notes on above:
4/55 "fire/impact" core columns = 0.0727272727 or 7.3% fire/impact core columns
0.0727272727 * .005 = .000364 or <= .036% of the core column steel was categorized as fire/impact damaged (47 core columns at factor of safety ~ 2.2 = 220% per NIST)
http://www.911research.com/papers/trumpman...alysisFinal.htm

26/42 "fire/impact" perimeter columns = 0.619047619 or 61.9% fire/impact columns
0.619047619 * .005 = .003095 or <= 0.3095% of the perimeter steel was inspected, identified, and categorized as "fire/impact" damaged. (236 perimeter columns at factor of safety ~5.0 = 500% per NIST)

4/42 of the perimeter columns were from WTC1 North and were "struck by the airplane that hit WTC1" = 0.0952380952
0.0952380952 * .005 = .000476 or <= .0476% of the perimeter columns were shown to have been "struck by the airplane."

NOTE: No steel identified from WTC7.
No steel identified as struck by a plane from WTC2 South.
-----
My new note: JOM doesn't seem to mind the word "beam"....

EDIT: Let's add this, that wasn't quoted in my 3rd "related info" link above (from the same JOM article):

"In general, the measured yield strengths are about 15% higher than specified. This extra strength is consistent with the results of WTC-era studies on the expected strengths of structural steel. The measured strength almost always exceeds the specified strength, so that variations in processing do not produce heats that must be scrapped. Several of the tests, however, produced R < 1. The appearance of these tests that produced yield strengths less than the specified minimum cannot be interpreted as meaning that the steel was defective, however. The mill-test-report strength for a heat of steel is a quality control check. It is not a guarantee that all regions in the heat will have the minimum strength. Extensive statistical studies (Alpsten, AISI) have demonstrated that variability within the heat is small enough that the usual factor of safety in design is adequate. Furthermore, in the case of the tests of the core column steels, specimens were harvested out of necessity from deformed areas of the recovered columns. The existing deformation, calculated from the radius of curvature, was more than sufficient to remove any yield point behavior under which these A 36 steels would have been qualified. The existence of a yield point, which most of the tests of the steels with R < 1 lacked, could add up to 10% to the measured and reported strengths. The original, undeformed steels would likely have had yield strengths above the specified FY = 36 ksi.

In summary, the strengths of the recovered steels measured at NIST are consistent with the specifications under which they were delivered. The tests produced no evidence that the steels were in any way defective, and their NIST-measured chemical compositions were in almost all cases consistent with the chemical requirements of the standards under which they were delivered. "

This post has been edited by dMole: May 25 2008, 01:18 PM
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dMz
post May 25 2008, 07:21 PM
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Hunt the Buckling:

http://www.orbitfiles.com/download/id2863391745.html

http://www.orbitfiles.com/download/id2863392938.html

http://www.orbitfiles.com/download/id2863393882.html
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Anduril
post May 26 2008, 09:32 AM
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According to NIST, the maximum observable temperature of any of the structural steelwork they examined was 250 degrees Centigrade. The steelwork "wicks" away the heat, as blacksmiths know. And the amount of jet fuel remaining to burn inside the buildings was minimal. On impact, the fuel transforms from a liquid to a mist or vapour, and burns off almost immediately. It has considerable forward momentum, which takes it through the buildng and out the other side.

You have to look at the thermal inputs against the mass of the steel and concrete being heated. As we see from the videos, these were black-smoke fires. Low temperature.

The character of the steelwork lattices in the internal and external "tube" structures and their interconnections can be compared to a rigid steel mesh. You can poke a hole into it, and the mesh still retains nearly all its strength.

Regards,

Tony
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dMz
post May 26 2008, 04:29 PM
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Hi Tony,

You might want to look at the FEA video that I just posted at:

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10741969

EDIT: Also, one of my lengthy posts on the thermal aspects is at:

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10733089

This post has been edited by dMole: May 27 2008, 01:52 AM
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Leslie Landry
post May 27 2008, 11:17 AM
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QUOTE (dMole @ May 23 2008, 04:39 PM) *
Yes Leslie,

Except one side of the debate is:

noob.gif troll.gif and lame.gif

They apparently no longer will:
bait.gif

They've been known to use:
spin.gif and bullshit.gif

So I:
idea.gif
box.gif

Got:
popcorn.gif ?


lol...

Well do you honestly believe this? I think this is a load of crap. The workers at the site would obviously know this...instead, they were complety shocked what was going on.

I need to read more about this...im blown away.
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Leslie Landry
post May 27 2008, 10:30 PM
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QUOTE (Leslie Landry @ May 23 2008, 01:50 PM) *
lol Well, dito...i have only read your post to be quite honest..i want wanted to write this before i forgot.

OK..so, i need to get what you are saying more clearly...and if i say it wrong..please correct me. Are you saying that it was determind by Alex Jones that it was not a C.D. and infact, the Molten Metal found was from taking down the rest of the building??


Sorry Sanders...i said Alex Jones who i actually thought you ment said that it was not a C.D. I read the name wrong so i just want to correct myself that you said Steve Jones and not Alex Jones.
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dMz
post May 27 2008, 10:49 PM
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QUOTE (Leslie Landry @ May 27 2008, 09:17 AM) *
Well do you honestly believe this? I think this is a load of crap. The workers at the site would obviously know this...instead, they were complety shocked what was going on.

Hi Leslie,

I'm not sure I understand your questions- do I believe what? The workers would know what?

In the earlier link that I provided:
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10494746

I posted (after very careful reading):
"Well this would explain a few of the things I found in the JOM Article- the apparent authors were hidden waaay down in the references:

"S.W. Banovic, T. Foecke, W.E. Luecke, and F.W. Gayle are with the Metallurgy Division and J.D. McColskey, C.N. McCowan, and T.A. Siewert are with the Materials Reliability Division at the National Institute of Standards and Technology, Technology Administration, U.S. Department of Commerce, Gaithersburg, MD 20899."

I couldn't get the figures in the article to open either.

If I follow
"Editor’s Note: For a much-cited, early metallurgical analysis of the World Trade Center towers collapse, see “Why Did the World Trade Center Collapse? Science, Engineering, and Speculation” in the December 2001 issue [of JOM]."

the author is apparently:

"Thomas W. Eagar, the Thomas Lord Professor of Materials Engineering and Engineering Systems, and Christopher Musso, graduate research student, are at the Massachusetts Institute of Technology."

So we have the "NIST investigation team" gathering steel for studies done by FEMA, ASCE, and NIST based on MIT and Purdue computer simulations to support the final NIST report being supported by articles written by NIST and MIT personnel. How cozy... Why again aren't ISO audits done in this manner?"

------
That's a pretty circular list of authors, but I think that some truth might have slipped through in the JOM article that I quoted (if that is what you asked anyway).

Hope this helps,
d
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dMz
post May 28 2008, 11:49 AM
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Re: "steel loses half its strengh" claims (which is true in certain circumstances), let's look at an article about infrared thermography on Sept. 11, 2001:

http://www.irinfo.org/Articles/article_9_11_2001.html

September 11, 2001:
A Thermographer's Experience at Ground Zero
Carol Ciemiengo
Jersey Infrared Consultants
PO Box 39
Burlington, NJ 08016
609-386-1281

Abstract

As practicing thermographers, we expect each day to provide new experiences and teach new lessons. September 11, 2001, taught every American a life-altering lesson. This paper presents an account of that day by an ordinary thermographer who was working across the street from the World Trade Center that morning and suddenly found herself in an extraordinary situation. This paper details the thermographer's thoughts and experiences while making the long journey home.

Introduction

It was Tuesday. The sky was an incredible shade of blue without a cloud to be seen and the haze that so often hangs over the New York/New Jersey metropolitan area was gone. The temperature was comfortable, the humidity was low. It was an absolutely gorgeous day. It was September 11, 2001.

World Trade Center

I had worked in lower Manhattan the day before, starting an infrared electrical survey which would be finished by noon on Tuesday. It made me particularly happy to know I would be beating the rush-hour traffic leaving Manhattan that day. I was working in a building situated on the corner of Church Street and Barclay Avenue - about a block north and across the street from the twin towers of the World Trade Center.

Built between 1966 and 1973 at a total cost of $400 million, the North Tower - One World Trade Center and the South Tower - Two World Trade Center, were 1,368 feet and 1,362 feet tall, respectively. The World Trade Center towers were the two tallest buildings in the world until the Sears Tower in Chicago was completed in the mid-70s. Each tower had 110 stories, 104 passenger elevators, 21,800 windows and roughly an acre of rentable space per floor. Because the towers were built on six acres of landfill, the foundation of each tower had to extend more than 70 feet below ground level to rest on solid bedrock.

The easily recognized communications antenna was on the North tower; from the observation deck on the South tower, it was possible to see 45 miles in every direction. Each tower swayed approximately three feet from true center in strong winds.

On Friday, February 26, 1993, a bomb was exploded in the underground garage of One World Trade Center, creating a 22-foot-wide, five-story-deep crater. Six people were killed and more than 1,000 were injured. The towers were cleaned, repaired, and reopened in less than a month.

The resiliency of the North tower after February 1993 made both towers seem invincible...

Normal Becomes Surreal

I was on site and ready to begin the day at 7:35 a.m. As normal, I took my equipment from the truck, grabbed my lunch bag and walked in the side entrance of the building. I signed in with security and took the elevator to the 2nd basement to get set up. We got started around 8:40, going to the lobby level where we had left off the day before. The elevator doors opened and someone said, "Hey Bob, did you hear that?" Neither of us had heard anything, so we just chalked it up to a big truck going a little too fast. A common happening in New York - most people who spend any time there don't even hear it. I distinctly remember looking at the clock in the lobby - it was 8:44 a.m. We went into an electrical closet and I scanned the open panels. Bob told me he was going to go check out the noise. I told him I was done scanning and was curious too, so I'd go with him.

We walked through the lobby and outside onto Church Street. For anyone who has never been there, the streets in lower Manhattan are not very wide and it really is like a concrete canyon. Everyone on the sidewalk was looking up at the north tower of the World Trade Center. As I looked up, I saw fire and smoke coming from a gash in the side of the north tower as well as a lot of paper floating down to Church Street.


Thermal image of North Tower shows fire location in white.

Because the Trade Center Towers were just over 1/4 mile high, looking up from the ground made what you were looking at appear small. No one in my surrounding area knew for sure what had just happened. There was talk that a small plane had grazed the building or there had been some sort of explosion. None of us felt particularly unsafe. After all, this is America and nothing resembling what happens in war-torn countries ever happens here.

It finally occurred to me that I was still wearing both an infrared imager and a camcorder and should tape what was going on. I recorded for awhile, then decided to see if I could take a thermal image. Due to the heat I was not able to get a temperature or even a good image, but I snapped two thermograms from ground level anyway.

At about 8:59, I decided it was time for me to stop wasting time and get back to work. I knew it would be a long day for the firefighters, but I had a job to finish. I worked my way through the crowd and back inside the building and was told to meet Bob in the 2nd basement.

It was at that moment - no more than a minute from the time I walked back into the building - that suddenly people were stampeding up the streets. I saw this through all three sets of lobby doors and wondered why people were all of a sudden running. Still not comprehending what was going on, I got on the elevator and went downstairs. When I got there, everyone was gathered around the TV. They said the report was there had been an explosion in the south tower. We watched, but from the vantage point of the newscast, we could not see it was a plane that had been flown into the tower. I didn't find out for sure what had happened until much later.

I said I'd like to get a better look - but not from the ground. Everyone else in the room agreed, so we took the elevator to the 11th floor and went onto the roof. There were about five of us there - just watching. We were all trying to use our cell phones, but the circuits were jammed, so no one was really sure exactly what had happened. As we watched, people were jumping or falling out of the north tower. None of us could understand why. We saw a few people at about the 105th floor waving a white cloth out of the window. They seemed so far away, but when you realize that although it's only a block away on ground level, the towers were just over 1/4 of a mile high. I began taping again but didn't fully understand the horror that was going on right in front of me. Everyone on that roof felt as if they were watching a movie. We still didn't feel we were in imminent danger.


Thermal image of east side of South Tower
shows heat from fire in orange/red.

As a thermographer, I felt compelled to add some thermographic images to my tape. In addition to the running tape, I snapped two more images: one of the north tower and one of the south. It did not occur to me, until someone said it later that day, these might be the only thermograms in the world of this event. The world had taken a turn for the surreal - it now seemed as if we were in the movie - not just watching.

The real world broke in and my pager went off. Someone from my office was trying to reach me, but I just wanted to watch what was happening and knew I would have to go down to the basement to get a land line. Five minutes later, my pager went off again - this time 911. It finally occurred to me that I should let my office know I was safe. I went back down to the basement and was able to get a land line to call the office. It was decided to call it a day and arrange to return next week to finish the job. It was decided I should take the equipment with me, make arrangements to leave the truck overnight and walk over the Brooklyn Bridge, where I'd be picked up. The intention was to go back up the next day and retrieve my truck. A co-worker of mine was in the Bronx that day, so the plan was for him to drive into Brooklyn and pick me up or, as an alternate, I would take a taxi and meet him in the Bronx. I was asked to notify the office when I was on my way. Knowing cell service was hard to get - if not completely down, I told the office I'd call when I could get a line.

As I was packing up my equipment, someone ran into the office where I was and said an airplane had just hit the Pentagon. Hearing that, I began feeling a little nervous but was not in a panic or in a great rush to get out of there. Remember, no one there was sure a plane had hit the north tower and we all still thought the south tower was burning due to an explosion. I was told the only way out of Manhattan now was on foot. The announcement to evacuate the building came over the PA, so I got my gear together, washed up and took the elevator to the lobby, which was swarming with FBI agents. I remember wondering how so many of them had arrived so quickly. An agent had blocked off the exit I needed, so I told him I had to make arrangements to leave my vehicle which was parked across the street. He told me to go -- but be careful. I exited the building and crossed the narrow street over to the parking lot. The noise level on the ground was much higher than it had been on the roof, but I still didn't feel as if I was in much danger. It was about 9:55 a.m.

The lot attendant saw me and came over. That day happened to be election day in New York, so there were only a few cars in the lot. He said I could leave the truck overnight and retrieve it in the morning. He only asked that I move it against the back wall. Before going to move the truck, I changed from my work boots into my sneakers - something I always do, which was a very lucky thing that day, I was soon to discover. The attendant walked back to me and said that they were letting people drive out onto Church Street going north so, if I left immediately before the area was overrun with emergency equipment, I could drive north and find some way off the island. I opted to go with that plan and locked the equipment in the box of the truck and opened the door. An FBI agent was yelling for quarters for the phone - funny how loss of cell service affects everyone - even the FBI.

The South Tower Falls

It was about 10:00 a.m. when I opened the driver's door and was ready to get into the truck that I heard an unbelievable cracking sound behind me. I turned toward the sound, and the only thing I could see from the lot was the southeast corner of the south tower. I watched it buckle and start to fall. It looked as if it were coming directly towards me, in slow motion. It finally dawns on me I am really in danger and the adrenaline kicks in along with reflex actions. The reflex was to run - I remember thinking the building was tipping over - not coming straight down. I ducked under the sideview mirror and ran east on Barclay Street. There were about a dozen people on that little street with me and we all starting running.

I still had plans of using the Brooklyn Bridge, but as I got to the corner of Broadway and Barclay, I would have had to go straight. I looked south down Broadway and saw an extremely high, billowing cloud of smoke and debris coming towards me like a tidal wave. I stopped to consider whether I should go across Broadway towards the bridge or duck into a doorway that was directly in front of me. I then looked down Barclay and into that same cloud. There was no time to think - the survival instinct kicked in. Someone screamed to run north, so I took off up Broadway with the debris cloud closing in fast. It was like trying to escape from a runaway freight train. When the cloud caught up, breathing was nearly impossible. The smoke burned my eyes and my throat. I had my fisted hand over my mouth and nose trying to catch a breath of air that was not thick with debris or smoke. Every so often, I came into a void area in the smoke and was able to get a whole breath, but then the void was gone and I was back in the cloud. This lasted for what seemed an eternity, but in actuality was probably about two minutes. There were people all around me, but I felt completely alone until I could see again. When we emerged from the cloud and started walking, the police were yelling for us to get into the street and keep running. I asked why and was told we were in front of the Federal Building and were still in danger. I ran a total of about eight blocks and then slowed to a walk. There were many people on Broadway with me - the sidewalks and street were full, but there was no panic. Almost everyone I saw looked single-minded. Our goal was to get off the island of Manhattan. I considered going back for the truck but thought better of it. There were rescue personnel passing me going down Broadway with that same single-minded look.

Getting Home

Many of us were walking backwards, just watching, but all we could see of the north tower was the antenna on the roof. I got to Canal Street and stopped for a minute to catch my breath and considered heading back down and over the Brooklyn Bridge. However, we were still being herded north and I found it hard to think of anything other than what had just happened. I finally decided to meet up with my co-worker, Dick, in the Bronx.

I knew I had to check with my office because they would have known the south tower fell around the same time I was supposed to have been on the street. I was at 4th Street and felt there was no possible way for me to walk all the way to the Bronx, which I knew was in the 130's block, but I figured I'd walk awhile and then get a cab.

At about 10:15, I turned around and could still see the antenna on the north tower. Around 10:20, I looked back down Broadway and could see the Woolworth Building, which was just behind where I was working. The whole bottom half was covered with the debris cloud, but the upper section was visible -- then it wasn't. I thought the north tower had collapsed but was not sure. No one on the street knew. I felt utterly alone in the middle of a huge crowd but also knew I was now part of the one being which the whole city of New York had become that day. People were parked on the street with their car doors open and their radios blaring the latest reports. We would gather and listen for a minute, then move on. Around 10:25, I gave up trying the cell phone and decided to stand in line for a public phone to call the office. Once I got a phone, all I could get was the fast "all-circuits-busy" signal. I continued walking north on Broadway, which turned into Park Avenue.

My lungs were full of dust and I knew I needed some water, but I just couldn't make my feet stop for that. The Empire State Building was now to my left and the MetLife Building and Grand Central Station were directly in front of me. Knowing they are also prominent buildings in Manhattan, I really started to feel unsafe and needed to get off Park Avenue. I had thoughts of going to Grand Central Station and getting a train or taxi north but just couldn't do it. I stopped just short of Grand Central and finally got a bottle of water from a street vendor. I turned right and walked to 3rd Avenue.

I stood in line again for a phone and was able to get a line on the first try. I checked with my office and let them know I was safe and at 54th Street. I told them I'd try to catch a cab and meet with Dick in the Bronx. As it happened, that was much easier said than done. The traffic, which had been mostly pedestrian, was suddenly bumper to bumper vehicles - all gridlocked. I figured I was better on foot anyway. Once the traffic thinned out, every cab that passed me was either taken or off-duty.

By now, I was running on autopilot - I'd look back downtown every once in awhile and just see the smoke in the air. Some people were in the street aiming cameras downtown, but there was only a distant cloud of dust to be seen. I went past numerous subway entrances but couldn't even entertain the thought of going down there. Besides, I was pretty sure they were still not running. By the time I got to 82nd Street, I was starting to get out of midtown. I still couldn't catch a cab and thought I might have better luck on Park Avenue, so I walked over there.

At about 1:00 p.m., at the corner of Park Avenue and 85th Street, I thought I'd try my cell phone again because I still had to let my ride know where I was. To my relief, cell service was back up. I told him where I was and he said to find a place to sit and wait. He'd drive into Manhattan and get me. There was a church on the west side of Park, so I sat there on the steps, in the shade. I called my mother and my son to let them know I was safe. They were able to give me bits and pieces of what had happened and what was currently happening, but I wouldn't get the full story until later. My ride called me around 1:50 and gave me the bad news that no one was able to drive into Manhattan. I would have to walk out. We decided I'd walk to the 3rd Avenue Bridge.

Every so often during my walk, I would hear F16 fighter jets overhead. This sound made me stop - it made everybody on the street stop and very nervously look up and cringe. It was then that I realized an F16 and a falling skyscraper make a very similar sound. I found out later that they were flying circles over Manhattan trying to protect the airspace from any further attacks. I was now in Harlem and was starting to hear snippets of conversations from women complaining about how many blocks they'd walked from midtown after an aborted shoe-shopping trip. It seemed odd they were talking about buying shoes. I stopped and got another bottle of water. It seemed no matter how much I drank, I literally couldn't get the taste of the World Trade Center out of my mouth. Reality was starting to come more into focus and I realized my feet were screaming and I had sharp pain in my side, but I kept walking. The need to get out of Manhattan overrode any discomfort I was feeling.

Where 3rd Avenue starts to go over the bridge, there is a parochial school. The students and teachers were out on the sidewalk passing out little cups of cold water. That struck me as so un-New York like. It seemed to me that they thought they were doing the only thing they could.
It was foot traffic only on the 3rd Avenue Bridge, and the nearby Triborough Bridge was open to outgoing traffic only but was severely gridlocked. At 2:30 p.m., I crossed the 3rd Avenue Bridge and met my rescue driver, Dick. I'd never been so happy to see a familiar face.

The street sign read 3rd Avenue and 135th Street. I had walked about eleven miles in just under four hours. I remembered standing at the corner of Broadway at 14th thinking there was no way I'd be able to walk into the 100's block, but here I was. I worried about the men I had left at the job site. It wasn't until the next day that I found out the building was still standing. We sat in the car for a few minutes trying to figure out how to get out of the Bronx. Traffic cops had no idea what was open and what was not, but we hoped the Tappan Zee Bridge, being farther north, was open. It was and we got home in record time.

No matter what you think you would do in a certain situation, until you are faced with it, you just don't know. My instinct was to run and save myself. Luckily, I was able to do just that. My number wasn't up on September 11 and I got to go home. Too many others did not.

The Day After

I was back at work the next day because I needed to be around people. That same day, my manager went into lower Manhattan with the plan of seeing whether an infrared imager would be of any help in locating victims. Unfortunately, it wasn't. There were too many mountains of concrete and debris and too much heat. He was, however, able to retrieve the truck and equipment I had left behind. He says he came around the corner and there it sat….intact, covered with dust and debris, but intact. It started right up but was so clogged with concrete dust and debris that the air-conditioning fan wouldn't turn. The truck spent a week in the shop being cleaned and fixed but is now running fine. The equipment that had been locked in the workbox was not damaged at all.

Things get easier as time moves on. Many memories of that day still upset me, but I'm thankful both that I'm alive and that the towers didn't come down immediately. If they had, I believe the death toll would have been in the tens of thousands because I remember how many people were running from the area for the hour before the south tower fell.

My Return to Ground Zero

By mid-October, my site contact was ready to finish the job we had started on September 11th. I let my manager know I wanted to be the one to go back - it had become a mission for me to complete this job. On October 25th I returned to the job site - now a part of what had been dubbed Ground Zero by the news media. As soon as I got to Broadway and Canal Street and opened my truck window, the smell hit me. It brought back all the memories of that day and again reminded me how lucky I was to have gotten out. They were wetting the streets down to try to keep the dust under control, so it made the smell of pulverized concrete even worse. I got as close as I could in the truck, then parked and walked the rest of the way. There was no problem walking into Ground Zero. The roads were all barricaded, but the sidewalks were not. Since I knew I was going to be late, I had called twice to give them my progress and when I finally walked into the building, security was waiting for me and said how happy they were to see me again. I went down to the Engineering office and met with my contacts. It was like a family reunion. The first thing they asked me was where was my tape from that day. I had completely forgotten I was supposed to send them copies.

The first thing that caught my eye in the office was a cylinder shaped object on the top shelf of the wall unit. I asked what it was because I knew it hadn't been there before. This story was to
be the first of two close calls I didn't even know I had. They said it was part of the plane that hit the south tower. They found it on their roof in the same section where we were standing. Evidently, it was there while we were on the roof but none of us noticed it. The piece was at least four feet long and was heavy. The building I had been working in only sustained minor damage - some windows along Church Street had been blown-out. Obviously, on that floor, everything had to be cleaned and/or redone due to the dust and debris. The Army Corps of Engineers had checked the structural integrity of the building and declared it safe. Those dedicated maintenance and engineering men were back in that building a week after the 11th.

Aircraft component recovered from roof of building. [Ed: I'm not so certain.]

Later on, my contact asked me where I had been after the first plane hit. He knew we were both standing on Church Street watching. I told him I had been on the sidewalk but went back inside the building about a minute before the second plane hit. I realized I'd had my second close call when he told me he'd been standing in pretty much the same place as I had been and was talking to a man about four feet away from him. When the second plane hit, he watched the man's white shirtsleeve go red - he'd been hit by shrapnel. Had I not gone inside, I might have been hit by flying debris or likely trampled in the ensuing stampede since my mobility was limited by my camera equipment. He also asked me where I had parked. I told him I had left my truck in the lot across the street and we came up the next day and were able to get it. He told me I was very lucky to even get the truck and equipment back - had I parked on the street, the vehicle and equipment would have been gone. Apparently, within 24 hours, they bulldozed every vehicle off the streets to clear the way for the big emergency equipment.

The silence in lower Manhattan the day I returned was deafening. There were quite a few people standing around, just looking, but all were quiet, respectful, disbelieving. Being there was something I had to do that day. There is still a part of me that doesn't believe this happened, and I saw it in person. Although I refuse to live in fear and hide under the bed, I am much more aware of my surroundings these days.

Conclusion

We, as a country, have lost our innocence, but life goes on…
We, as citizens of the world, must adjust to the new reality that America is not immune from terrorist attacks.
We, as Americans have banded together and gotten stronger - the exact opposite of the intentions the terrorist cowards had for us.
We, as human beings are now all too well aware that life, as we know it, can change in a New York minute…

Acknowledgments

The author wishes to thank everyone at Jersey Infrared Consultants for their concern and their prayers for her safety and well being that day and in the days to follow. A special note of pride and appreciation is also extended to everyone at the job site who refused to be knocked down by this and were back at work as soon as possible, and willingly shared all the pictures they had in the preparation of this presentation.

We continue to pray for those lost on September 11 and their families. We look to Heaven for strength, wisdom and guidance as we move forward more keenly aware of our daily blessings.

This post has been edited by dMole: May 28 2008, 11:58 AM
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Leslie Landry
post May 30 2008, 11:33 PM
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QUOTE (dMole @ May 27 2008, 09:49 PM) *
Hi Leslie,

I'm not sure I understand your questions- do I believe what? The workers would know what?


I believe what i was saying was basically about Thermite/Thermate and believing it was used before hand. I dont believe it came from after the towers fell. There were comments from Rescue workers about their boots melting after a few hours.
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Anduril
post Jun 2 2008, 05:21 PM
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QUOTE (dMole @ May 26 2008, 08:29 PM) *
Hi Tony,

You might want to look at the FEA video that I just posted at:

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10741969

EDIT: Also, one of my lengthy posts on the thermal aspects is at:

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10733089


Thanks!

These are interesting and worthwhile.

I liked the music for your clip -- Basil Poledouris.

Here's the original, which made Sandahl Bergman's reputation -- she spent a year and a half in training, and when she let fly, half the extras were hospitalized. She nearly lost a finger.

I worship Sandahl Bergman. She was good as Queen Gedren in "Red Sonja." She was offered the lead role, but chose the vllainous queen as more interesting.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=17...-XtCQ&hl=en


Regards,

Tony
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dMz
post Jun 2 2008, 06:09 PM
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Hello Tony,

Perhaps I should clarify- I merely posted the link for public evaluation. "mmmlink" was the author who did the production and FEA analysis.

Another researcher has questioned the floor load values used in the video(s), but I'm sure you know that is still an open matter of some debate (not adequately addressed in the NIST reports from what I recall). There are about 7-10 FEA videos as I recall on "mmmlink's" page:

http://www.youtube.com/user/mmmlink

I found them quite interesting and well put together myself.
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Sanders
post Jun 2 2008, 06:50 PM
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QUOTE (Leslie Landry @ May 31 2008, 09:30 PM) *
<s>


Sorry Leslie, I hadn't peeked in to this thread in a while and didn't realise I hadn't responded to a couple of your posts.


I would not go so far as to say emphatically that the molten metal in the rubble was in fact the molten iron by-product of Thermate reactions that were used to cut up the steel beams. But that's what Steven Jones thinks, and I tend to buy it, and if you do buy that explanation then the molten metal would have been iron, not steel. (The only other explanation I have heard for the molten metal that is even plausible is one that involves the use of high-energy weaponry... but that would not have explained the molten metal oozing out of the side of the tower anyway, so I'll be sticking with Jones' hypothesis.)
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dMz
post Jul 12 2008, 03:32 PM
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QUOTE (Anduril @ May 26 2008, 07:32 AM) *
According to NIST, the maximum observable temperature of any of the structural steelwork they examined was 250 degrees Centigrade. The steelwork "wicks" away the heat, as blacksmiths know. And the amount of jet fuel remaining to burn inside the buildings was minimal. On impact, the fuel transforms from a liquid to a mist or vapour, and burns off almost immediately. It has considerable forward momentum, which takes it through the buildng and out the other side.

Hi Tony,

I thought NIST went as high as 260C for their estimate, but I'll need to look that one up. I did find something interesting in a structural engineering reference book in my research.

"SECTION SEVEN
STRUCTURAL STEEL
CONSTRUCTION
Bruce Glidden
President, Glidden & Co., Ltd.
Bridgeville, Pennsylvania

[...]
Structural steel consists of hot-rolled steel shapes, steel plates of thickness of 1⁄8
in or greater, and such fittings as bolts, welds, bracing rods, and turnbuckles. The
owner and the engineer should understand fully what will be furnished by the
fabricator under a contract to furnish ‘‘structural steel.’’ To promote uniformity in
bidding practices, the American Institute of Steel Construction (AISC) has adopted
a ‘‘Code of Standard Practice for Buildings and Bridges’’ (American Institute of
Steel Construction, One East Wacker Drive, Suite 3100, Chicago, IL 60601-2001).
Additional design guides are shown in Table 7.1.

7.1 CODES AND SPECIFICATIONS
Codes, specifications, and standards provide steel designers with sound design procedures
and guidelines. These documents cover selection of service and design
loads, criteria for proportioning members and their connections, procedures for
fabrication and erection, requirements for inspections, and standards for protection
against corrosion and fire. Use of these documents generally ensures safety, economical
designs, and sound operational techniques.

The applicable building code defines the minimum legal requirements for a design.
Most building authorities incorporate in their building code one of the model
building codes (Art. 1.10), but some write their code requirements. Usually, the
basis for the requirements for steel design and construction in building codes are
the American Institute of Steel Construction specifications for structural steel buildings
(Table 7.1). Note that two AISC specifications are available, one applicable to
allowable stress design and plastic design (ASD) and the second to load and resistance
factor design (LRFD).

Table 7.1 also lists other codes and specifications most frequently used by steel
designers. Requirements for special-function buildings, needs of governmental
agencies, and other unique requirements has led to promulgation of many other
codes and specifications. Some of the organizations that publish these standards are
the General Services Administration, U.S. Department of Commerce, Corps of Engineers,
and U.S. Navy Bureau of Yards and Docks.

[Table 7.1 won't paste, but the relevant entities are American Institute of Steel
Construction (AISC), One East Wacker Drive, Chicago, IL 60601-2001, ASTM, and American Iron and Steel
Institute (AISI), 1101 17th St., N.W., Washington, DC 20036]
[...]
7.49 EFFECT OF HEAT ON STEEL
A moderate rise in temperature of structural steel, say up to 500 F, is beneficial in that the strength is
about 10% greater than the normal value
. Above 500 F, strength
falls off, until at 700 F it is nearly equal to the normal temperature strength. At a
temperature of 1000 F, the compressive strength of steel is about the same as the
maximum allowable working stress in columns.
"

Building Design and Construction Handbook, 6 ed., Frederick S. Merritt (Deceased) Editor,
Jonathan T. Ricketts Editor, © 2001, McGRAW-HILL

http://www.amazon.com/Building-Design-Cons...07041999X#cited

Of course, 500 F = 260 C
700 F = 371.1111111111 C
1000 F = 537.7777777778 C

We're not likely to find a 1970-vintage copy of the AISC code online, but the current AISC Specification for Structural Steel Buildings (ANSI/AISC 360-05) is at:
http://www.aisc.org/Content/ContentGroups/...rd_printing.pdf
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dMz
post Jul 17 2008, 05:01 PM
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There is a lot of sourced information at jakeogh's page:

http://nasathermalimages.com/
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dMz
post Jul 18 2008, 12:37 AM
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WTC steel is covered in:

http://wtc.nist.gov/NISTNCSTAR1-3B.pdf

An interesting quote won't paste from page 55 of above (83 of 112 in PDF).

Several spreadsheets containing steel data have been extracted from the NIST SAP2000 Finite Element model at:

http://wtcmodel.wikidot.com/nist-sap2000-model
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dMz
post Jul 26 2008, 11:17 PM
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I found something interesting in the spreadsheet data that was extracted from the NIST SAP2000 Finite Element Analysis (FEA) database. The spreadsheet is available at:

http://wtcmodel.wikidot.com/local--files/n...shape_plate.xls

http://wtcmodel.wikidot.com/nist-sap2000-model

Of 10,906 steel elements listed, 147 elements were listed simply as "STEEL" (no specific alloy was listed in the "Shape Mat" material type column). This seems a little incomplete or ambiguous if one is aiming for a "realistic" computer simulation.

The vast majority of steel elements (5393 in number) were listed as "STEEL36," which I would take to mean A36 or 36 ksi steel. The balance were STEEL42 through STEEL100. I have these element count numbers if anyone is interested. My research has suggested that assuming the weakest A36 yield strength may not be accurate either.

See post #11 at:
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10494746

"In all, NIST cataloged 236 structural steel elements:

* Ninety exterior column panels, of which 42 were unambiguously identified. Of those identified, 26 came from the fire and impact floors, and four of these had been struck by the airplane that hit WTC 1.
* Fifty-five core columns, of which 12 were unambiguously identified. Four of the identified columns came from the fire and impact zones.
* Twenty-three pieces of floor truss. Unfortunately, these elements had no identifying marks, so their original location in the towers is unknown.
* Twenty-five pieces of the channel that supported the floor trusses at the core; all are of unknown location.
* Forty-three miscellaneous pieces including bolts, pieces of aluminum facade, and elements from WTC 5.

Although many of the individual recovered elements are rather large, the collection represents less than 0.5 % of the more than 200,000 tons of steel used in the buildings"


If you will note, NIST modeled at least 10,906 elements in the SAP model and inventoried only 236 real-world structural steel elements as crime scene evidence...

EDIT: STEEL42 = 838, STEEL45 = 591, STEEL46 = 236, STEEL50 = 675, STEEL55 = 530, STEEL60 = 522, STEEL65 = 382, STEEL70 = 331
STEEL75 = 299, STEEL80 = 279, STEEL85 = 257, STEEL90 = 186, and STEEL100 = 240 elements. I may have missed one category there (it's a 10,900 line spreadsheet).
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dMz
post Aug 23 2008, 07:06 PM
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A few steel links:

http://www.victorysteelsupply.com/line.htm

http://www.mskent.com/steel/steel-plates.h...ll_steel_plates

AISC Free Publications
http://www.aisc.org/Content/NavigationMenu...eePubs_Home.htm

AISC ePublications
http://www.aisc.org/Content/NavigationMenu.../ePubs_Home.htm

NIST Product Data Standards for Structural Steel
http://cic.nist.gov/vrml/cis2.html
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