The NTSB Flight Path, The Descent Angle, & The VDOT Radio Tower, How'd "Hani" miss it & level off 6 ft over the lawn Options

[Aldo Marquis CIT]

Excellent tool for reference. I'll try and take some screenshots...



This post has been edited by Aldo Marquis CIT: Mar 5 2008, 02:12 PM

[UnderTow]

Here a screen showing both the tower and sheraton, from the roof. Looking back towards the flight path.

(IMG:http://www.aa77fdr.com/pft_forum/VDOTRoof_TowerSheraton.jpg)

The zoom in to the impact point is also a good picture. I can just see a light pole (don't know which one it is though).

This post has been edited by UnderTow: Mar 6 2008, 12:12 AM

Reason for edit: linked picture

[UnderTow]

Here is the zoom in to the pentagon. I added a little yellow bracket above what I believe is a light pole.

(IMG:http://www.aa77fdr.com/pft_forum/VDOTRoof_Pent1.jpg)

This post has been edited by UnderTow: Mar 6 2008, 12:13 AM

Reason for edit: linked picture

[rob balsamo]

(how do you embed youtube clips?)

copy/paste embed code... make sure "HTML on - Auto Line Break" in drop down just above submit button.

[Aldo Marquis CIT]

Thanks Rob and UT.

UT, what am I trying to do here. I get an error when I left click and when I right click & save target as.

This post has been edited by Aldo Marquis CIT: Mar 5 2008, 02:08 PM

[riv]

Uh.. I can't see the attachment. It say I don't have permissions o_O

This post has been edited by riv: Mar 5 2008, 06:49 PM

[UnderTow]

Not sure about that. But I got them linked now.
Thanks for speaking :-)

[Craig Ranke CIT]

Here is the zoom in to the pentagon. I added a little yellow bracket above what I believe is a light pole.

(IMG:http://www.aa77fdr.com/pft_forum/VDOTRoof_Pent1.jpg)

here is high resolution of the same thing
(IMG:http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/lytetrip/pentagon%20trip/Picture004.jpg)

[Craig Ranke CIT]

(IMG:http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/lytetrip/pentagon%20trip/Picture014.jpg)
(IMG:http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/lytetrip/pentagon%20trip/Picture020.jpg)
(IMG:http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/lytetrip/pentagon%20trip/Picture019-1.jpg)
(IMG:http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/lytetrip/pentagon%20trip/Picture005.jpg)

[Craig Ranke CIT]

(IMG:http://i14.photobucket.com/albums/a327/lytetrip/pentagon%20trip/IMG_9198.jpg)

[riv]

So at the end what is the best approximated height of the VDOT antenna?
(USGS NED ground elevation in that point is 136.75ft)

(IMG:http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/9495/antennalw2.png)

This post has been edited by riv: Mar 13 2008, 12:32 AM

[Aldo Marquis CIT]

Here is a great work in fiction. An oldie but a goodie for me...

IN HARM'S WAY!

"If I had been on top of our building, I would have been close enough to
reach up and catch it," Madelyn Zakhem, an executive secretary in the
Smart Traffic Center (STC) in Arlington, said two days after the terrorist
plane rocketed directly over her.

In the final few seconds before the terrorist-commandeered plane exploded
into the Pentagon, the plane roared down on Columbia Pike, almost skimming
the roof of the STC after barely missing the Sheraton Hotel. The noise,
VDOT team members said, was unbelievably loud, and most felt the hijacker
was nosing down the plane at full throttle. "It was so close the building
was shaking," recalls Jimmy Chu, STC manager.

Some VDOTers were sure the plane had shifted its direction slightly to
avoid a 100-foot-tall cellular tower adjacent to the STC building. As the
plane went over the STC, the hijacker banked the plane, lifting the right
wing up, in order to swoop down the hill into the target.

Just before impact, the plane clipped off two VDOT light poles on
Washington Boulevard, a football field or two away from the Pentagon. In
the same area, the blast from the plane's impact damaged the lenses of one
of VDOT's traffic monitoring cameras and knocked the camera sideways.

http://www.roadstothefuture.com/VA_Sept21.txt

This post has been edited by Aldo Marquis CIT: Mar 13 2008, 12:40 AM

[Aldo Marquis CIT]

So at the end what is the best approximated height of the VDOT antenna?
(USGS NED ground elevation in that point is 136.75ft)

(IMG:http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/9495/antennalw2.png)

Is that the actual "last coordinate" to "impact" line?

To answer your question it is about 100 ft it looks like. But if I remember correctly they told us it was higher.

[riv]

Is that the actual "last coordinate" to "impact" line?

To answer your question it is about 100 ft it looks like. But if I remember correctly they told us it was higher.

Yep, the green line in the pic was almost a straight line.

This pic show my best estimate for the ntsb path (violet), considering the adjustment to hit *all* the light poles (a complete straight path can't it pole #1). So this path is made by 3 point, with the 2nd point exactly in the middle (annex area), 1st is RO2 and 3rd is impact. The straight path is the blue one.

(IMG:http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/6661/straightvsfixoq1.png)

This post has been edited by riv: Mar 13 2008, 03:04 AM

[Aldo Marquis CIT]

Riv,

1426 Columbia Pike. Arlington, VA 22204

Registration# 1016111

According to the FCC, the height [of the tower] is 51.5 meters (169 ft)

MSL elevation at that site is 41.1 meters (135 ft).

Where did your pic go?

[rob balsamo]

Edit: I messed up on pole height. New calculations below. Still impossible.





Its 11.2 G's. not 8 as my last edit.



Top of VDOT Height = 304 MSL (above sea level)
Top of Pole 1 height = 80 MSL

Difference = 224 feet descent required.

Distance between VDOT - Pole 1 = 2400 feet

2400/Speed 781 feet per second (according to Flight Data Recorder) = 3 seconds

224/3 seconds = 75 fps descent rate x 60 = 4480 fpm descent rate needed to reach top of pole 1 from top of VDOT Antenna.

Pole 1 distance to Pentagon = 1016 feet

1016 feet/781 fps = 1.3 seconds

4480 fpm descent needs to be arrested within 1.3 seconds.

75 * 1.3 = 97.5 foot descent within 1.3 seconds.

97.5/32 fps accel due to gravity = 3.0 G's + 1 G = 4.0 G's needed to arrest descent within 1.3 seconds and 97.5 feet vertically. However, 97.5 feet vertically is not available.

Top of pole 1 height = 80 MSL
"Impact hole" height = 33 (pentagon ground level) + 12 feet (center of pentagon hole height) = 45 MSL

80 feet (top of pole 1) - 45 (height of "impact hole") = 35 feet vertically available to arrest descent rate of 4480 fpm.

97.5/35 = 280% (G Load required to arrest 4480 fpm descent rate within 1.3 seconds and 97.5 feet vertically needs to be increased by 280%.)

280% x 4.0 G's = 11.2 G's needed to arrest descent.

Conclusion = Impossible for any transport category aircraft to descend from top of VDOT Antenna to top of pole 1 and pull level to "impact hole" as reported by the government story and seen in the DoD "5 Frames Video". 11.2 G's was never recorded in the FDR. 11.2 G's would rip the aircraft apart.

This post has been edited by rob balsamo: Mar 14 2008, 09:25 AM

[Aldo Marquis CIT]

There you go baby boy.

More smoking gun material.

Thank you so much Rob.

[riv]

That's interesting.

I guess there's not much difference in the amount of G for an hypothetical Annex flyover (north-VDOT path).
Just for playing the advocate's devil. I'm just trying to see if there's a best (or maybe not so worst) case scenario for a NTSB path.

[Drakey]

Top work here guys - was reading it on 911blogger... hopefully we can get this on prisonplanet etc too and keep spreading it!

This post has been edited by Drakey: Mar 14 2008, 06:59 AM

[Aldo Marquis CIT]

That's interesting.

I guess there's not much difference in the amount of G for an hypothetical Annex flyover (north-VDOT path).
Just for playing the advocate's devil. I'm just trying to see if there's a best (or maybe not so worst) case scenario for a NTSB path.

Hi Riv,

You have to remember, we don't know how high, how fast, at what angle, etc. We don't know the type of plane and whether it was modified.

Totally different.