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Religion Is Evil

UnderTow
post Mar 28 2008, 01:40 PM
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I want to say so many things about this, but god damn gesus christé, how can you possible comprehend the mind-obliterating bullshit that is put forth by people and their myths.

Two Creationists take home schooled kids on a tour of a natural history museum filling their minds with Young Earth Creationist Bullshit.

These two men (and their 'church')(and the parents that allow this) should be banished from the Earth. They do not deserve it.
Please load them on a spare rocket and set course for the Sun.

To entrap and pollute the children, is damning to the extreme.

I suggest we water torture them, endlessly.

-UT
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painter
post Mar 28 2008, 03:19 PM
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Children get taught all kinds of crap in state run schools too, though, don't they? So far as I recall, that George Washington -- the symbolic corner-stone of our Republic -- couldn't tell a lie is still foundation level indoctrination.

A society can't teach its kids the truth about themselves and their place in the grand scheme of things from macro to micro if the society doesn't know this truth itself.

Does it?

Then there is, for me, the bigger question of how children actually learn -- or could learn if allowed to by a society that had a more holistic understanding of what a human being actually is and what its real (mostly hidden) potentials actually are. But that is a much bigger issue. What kids are REALLY taught is to obey authority and whatever 'rebellion' shows up against it gets trivialized and sold back to them as a matter of style.

Scull and funk'n bonze.
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Omega892R09
post Mar 28 2008, 05:48 PM
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You are absolutely correct UT as this story demonstrates:

http://richarddawkins.net/article,2402,Pol...l-Help,Fox-News

To put it another way, 'religion spoils everything.'
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lunk
post Mar 28 2008, 07:35 PM
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QUOTE (Omega892R09 @ Mar 28 2008, 02:48 PM) *
You are absolutely correct UT as this story demonstrates:

http://richarddawkins.net/article,2402,Pol...l-Help,Fox-News

To put it another way, 'religion spoils everything.'


There is something wrong with this story.

The parents let the girl have shots from a doctor
when she was 3, but they wouldn't take her to a doctor
when she was very ill at age 11?

Oh, I see, it's originally from faux-snooze.

I wonder if Richard Dalkins has seen through
the blue-pill shaped ruck-sacks, yet.

still the non-religious lunk
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dMz
post Mar 28 2008, 07:53 PM
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QUOTE (lunk @ Mar 28 2008, 05:35 PM) *
the blue-pill shaped ruck-sacks, yet.

still the non-religious lunk

Yes, but which rule are you taking "exception" to... ??
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lunk
post Mar 28 2008, 08:14 PM
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QUOTE (dMole @ Mar 28 2008, 04:53 PM) *
Yes, but which rule are you taking "exception" to... ??


There's a rule?
I guess I don't like the idea of myth being portrayed as fact.

The first video looked like a divide and confound ploy.
Divide the people into 2 camps; creationists and evolutionists,
both of which believe in a beginning, I guess I take exception to
this, as before a beginning there had to have been a past,
therefore there cannot, and never was, a beginning, or for
that matter, an end.

the exception to the rule, lunk
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Nunyabiz
post Mar 28 2008, 09:11 PM
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What those lunatic Creationist did in that video is without any question child abuse and they should all be imprisoned for it.
If I were the museum curator I would not allow them in.
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UnderTow
post Mar 28 2008, 10:59 PM
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Thank nunyabiz.

And wow, I didn't even realize how the "home schooled" fell in there. I know home schooling and it's benefits.

But it in itself has nothing to do with this tragedy. Religion can ruin anything.

And the Fed can stay the F out of Education. It's not the States fault.
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Timothy Osman
post Mar 29 2008, 04:04 AM
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QUOTE (Nunyabiz @ Mar 29 2008, 01:11 AM) *
What those lunatic Creationist did in that video is without any question child abuse and they should all be imprisoned for it.
If I were the museum curator I would not allow them in.


I don't know about not letting them in, I think I saw this video somewhere else and the curator summed it up pretty well by saying that some of the kids having seen the evidence will start to question the dogma which is denying it.

Charles Darwin himself struggled with his religious beliefs and if you think about it as he was deeply religious and if his beliefs in religion were suppressed he may felt it necessary to defend his religious beliefs against whatever dogma was attacking them. Thus no ticket on the Beagle.
Darwin went on to say something profound, to me at least in that evolution depends on the happiness and or harmony of a species to be willing to procreate. He also believed that human sentience evolved so that as a species we could experience happiness.
Could it be that the belief in the divine is just a natural way for humans as a species to enjoy happiness/harmony at It's base but over time has been corrupted and used as a method of control and manipulation by the usual suspects.
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mrodway
post Mar 29 2008, 06:34 AM
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QUOTE (Nunyabiz @ Mar 27 2008, 12:11 AM) *
If I were the museum curator I would not allow them in.


I most likely would - but they would have to put up with a bit of heckling from over the PA system smile.gif
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painter
post Mar 29 2008, 11:10 AM
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QUOTE (Timothy Osman @ Mar 29 2008, 01:04 AM) *
Could it be that the belief in the divine is just a natural way for humans as a species to enjoy happiness/harmony at It's base but over time has been corrupted and used as a method of control and manipulation by the usual suspects.


This is much closer to the way I see it.

Atheists who rail against religion make the same mistakes religious people railing against science do. They are both trapped by their own 'literality', mistaking their metaphors for the connotation; that is, mistaking their symbols for the deeper Truth those symbols represent and are meant to help us understand. Sorry religious folk, what you call GOD is not some cosmic egotist sitting on a golden throne demanding universal obedience and eternal praise from his creation. Sorry scientific folk, atoms aren't billiard balls or any other kind of 'balls' and much of what you call "fact" is theory which may, and often is, revised as new data is accumulated. OF COURSE religious people are wrong to insist that all creation was accomplished in seven (literal) Earth days. But, then again, there may be some fundamental principals beneath that metaphor that has more validity. For example, what has been translated as "days" may actually refer to seven different levels of cosmology of which we and our science may know only one or two by any direct, physical experience or experiment. But that is just a guess. Equally, OF COURSE science's insistence on evolution as a fundamental principal of genetic change through time works as a practical analysis of why certain traits are inherited. However, without some form of Lamarkism, it fails to explain a lot of important details about the arrival of our own species, and especially that most characteristic aspect of our own species, the development of symbolic referencing which -- as I am attempting to indicate -- both expands our capacity to comprehend the universe within which we find ourselves while simultaneously limiting it by the frame of the language used. At base, for example, our mathematics has it all wrong: What we call 'whole numbers' (one, two, three, etc.) are, in fact concepts, the actuality of which can not be found anywhere in the experiential universe. There is no "one" anything as everything is a part of a larger whole and every identifiable part is made up of yet smaller and smaller parts all the way down to the sub-atomic level where our ability to describe with any accuracy what is actually 'there' or 'not there' fails us. Meanwhile, on the other hand, what mathematics calls "irrational numbers," certain proportional relationships such as pi and phi, appear universal as they are found operating at every scale of the cosmos we've so far been able to map.

The fundamental point is, the map is not the territory, the name is not the thing named, and this is true for science as well as for religion. We need our maps to help us understand our world including ourselves in it but what we are and what the world is is not the map.
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Sanders
post Mar 29 2008, 12:52 PM
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Painter, you blow me away sometimes. Nice post.

BTW, there is actually evidence of Lamarkism that goes on with respect to the immune system. I forget the details, but I remember reading about it.
...........................

I remember the moment I realized that there is no god, that we creatures are essentially sophisticated machines descended from bacteria, that there is no "purpose", except what we chose to affix. I had grown tired of reading about quantum physics (Richard Feynman had kept me mentally busy and happy for a couple of years) and had moved on to biology, and was inevitably attracted to Richard Dawkins. I read all of his books in order ... and, at the moment I "understood" (it's sort of like the moment where you understand that 9-11 was actually an inside job, but even more earthshaking), Dawkins was talking about that moment - the feeling of (let's see if I can remember the metaphor) ... the sand all slips out of your insides. I'm sure the metaphor was a bit different, but that was the feeling, Dawkins described it perfectly exactly as I was reading it and feeling it. There is no god, there is no "afterlife", there is no purpose, there is only "this". It was so much like the feeling when I realized elements in our own government perpetrated 9-11.

It's not a good feeling. I will say, yes indeed ignorance is bliss. I think the "powers that be", whoever they are, understand this - that without religion this world would just collapse.

I have moved past it all - I have found new crutches, I set goals, I achieve them and set new ones, I place my faith in myself and the people around me, I live. Many people, I believe, would lack the ability to do that if both religion and their faith in government (as a benign caretaker) was suddenly pulled out from under them. Those of us who have worked through various stages and come to grips with a reality that is closer to what is real in our own good time are the lucky ones, IMO. To be confronted with all of this suddenly, is too much for many people.

My grandparents were religious. But they didn't wear it on their sleeves, and they were good people, salt of the earth. They knew Roosevelt was a traitor, they knew the country was veering off course. They lived through the depression, they knew about the international (centered in England) "banksters", they had common sense. I actually think, more than my dad (hopeless case) - that I would have had a receptive audience were to have talked to my grandparents about 9-11. But I would have hesitated before trying to convince them that there is no god - I think such stark reality isn't for everyone ...

So what's my point?? Er, um, I'm not sure. Baby and bathwater come to mind.
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THE_DECIDER
post Mar 29 2008, 01:48 PM
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there is no good or evil...only right and wrong...

imho

"universal law"

This post has been edited by THE_DECIDER: Mar 29 2008, 01:48 PM
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painter
post Mar 29 2008, 03:02 PM
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QUOTE (Sanders @ Mar 29 2008, 09:52 AM) *
. . .
There is no god, there is no "afterlife", there is no purpose, there is only "this".
. . .
So what's my point?? Er, um, I'm not sure. Baby and bathwater come to mind.

Sanders, you and I are almost 'on the same page' with "this", baby, bath water, and etc., ad infinitum.

However, there is one point of discussion I feel the need to press regarding "this".

What do we really KNOW about "this" and HOW do we know it? This is the fundamental conundrum I've been harping about in various threads having to do with esotericism, alternative theories regarding the nature of the universe and human nature, etc. Those of us who have grown up in and been conditioned by everything that constitutes late Twentieth, early Twenty First Century "education" (conventional, intentional and not), have a particular perspective on things that is both unique to our own individual life-path and, yet, shared with most other people reared within our own 'pond' so to speak. The contents of our consciousness is 'such and so' and it is through and within this 'such and so' that we make meaning of the energetic forces impacting our sensorium moment to moment.

The point for me is that this self/world matrix is as much a construct as that of any other, pre-literate, pre-humanist, pre-scientific, pre-industrial, pre-technological, etc., matrices that preceded it. "We don't know who discovered water but we're pretty sure it wasn't the fish," is a metaphor for where we stand in relation to our own ideational and perceptual fields. We just take it for granted that what we see and understand is "real" -- when it is highly likely that nothing could be further from the truth. Of course it is "real" in the same sense that it 'exists' in us as a ideational and perceptual field and is, therefore, "real" in that limited sense. It is "real" in the same sense that "rainbows" are real, although, in point of fact, "rainbows" have no actual existence outside the experience of a subjective observer with a perceptual apparatus at least somewhat similar to our own neuro-physiology and conceptual predispositions.

The point is, this "THIS" has FAR more possibilities than our ordinary perceptual consciousness allows us to perceive precisely because it is oriented and structured and focused in habituated patterns that filter out much of the energetic forces interacting with us on levels of potentiality that even our science can not measure. To KNOW THIS beyond entertaining it as an abstract and hypothetical possibility requires that one move beyond symbolic ideation and choose to intentionally engage with our latent potential to pay attention to and consciously transcend the inherent limitations of our conditioned self/world matrix. This possibility is what the great religious teachings have always been about. This is what people who aren't just 'yucking it up' are attempting to do through their use of psychedelics and other forms of meditation that disrupt the ordinary input-output circuitry within the brain.

Those who have been successful in this effort invariably report back that the universe is far stranger than we imagine and that there is a universal connectedness -- the possibility of discovering for one's self that consciousness is in actuality not only non-individual it is non-local and non-temporal operating at every level of manifestation within a multi-dimensional cosmos from the Absolute to the Absolute.

Talk about babies and baths -- we have hardly a clue. Any of us who ACCEPT the limitations that have been foisted upon our sense of self and world by contemporary so-called civilization ARE MISSING THE POINT of our very existence which is to at least once in our limited span of life to touch within ourselves that miraculous quality of consciousness which is both transcendent and trans-temporal, without which we don't know jack sh*t about what is and isn't real and or possible.
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maturin42
post Mar 29 2008, 04:20 PM
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Here's what Roy Zimmerman has to say on the subject.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIwiPsgRrOs
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painter
post Mar 29 2008, 05:51 PM
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QUOTE (maturin42 @ Mar 29 2008, 01:20 PM) *
Here's what Roy Zimmerman has to say on the subject.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uIwiPsgRrOs

handsdown.gif laughing1.gif
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Nunyabiz
post Mar 29 2008, 09:21 PM
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On a scale from 1 - 100.. One being as close to factual reality as is possible for the human mind to achieve Science & Atheist are around the 5-10 on that scale.

These nut bag Creationist are 98+ they are basically insane.
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painter
post Mar 29 2008, 10:04 PM
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QUOTE (dMole @ Mar 28 2008, 04:53 PM) *
QUOTE (lunk @ Mar 28 2008, 05:35 PM)

the blue-pill shaped ruck-sacks, yet.

still the non-religious lunk

Yes, but which rule are you taking "exception" to... ??


Did you mean: "Richard Dawkins" rucksacks ??

color me clueless: painter
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painter
post Mar 29 2008, 10:09 PM
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QUOTE (Nunyabiz @ Mar 29 2008, 06:21 PM) *
On a scale from 1 - 100.. One being as close to factual reality as is possible for the human mind to achieve Science & Atheist are around the 5-10 on that scale.

These nut bag Creationist are 98+ they are basically insane.


No argument re "nut bag Creationists" but statements like that suggest a misplaced "faith" in scientism and limited awareness of what constitutes paradigm shifts in the history of science.
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lunk
post Mar 30 2008, 11:02 AM
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QUOTE (painter @ Mar 29 2008, 07:04 PM) *
Yes, but which rule are you taking "exception" to... ??


Did you mean: "Richard Dawkins" rucksacks ??

color me clueless: painter


Yes, he said in his film about religion something like, I'm paraphrasing here, "What is it in religion that takes young men with rucksacks and turns them into suicide bombers"

Inadvertently agreeing with OCT.
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