Thomas Jefferson Options

[GroundPounder]

http://rense.com/general94/jeffsn.htm

[zoeken]

Absolutely amazing man.

I've heard that JFK quote before. It is one of my favorites.

[amazed!]

Too damn true!

[will52]

"And...if ever we are constrained to lift the hatchet against any tribe, " he wrote, "we will never lay it down till that tribe is exterminated, or is driven beyond the Mississippi." - Thomas Jefferson 1807
"we will never lay it down till that tribe is exterminated, or is driven beyond the Mississippi." Jefferson, the slave owner, continued, "in war, they will kill some of us; we shall destroy all of them".
Lakota Student

This post has been edited by will52: Jul 5 2011, 03:55 PM

[GroundPounder]

"And...if ever we are constrained to lift the hatchet against any tribe, " he wrote, "we will never lay it down till that tribe is exterminated, or is driven beyond the Mississippi." - Thomas Jefferson 1807
"we will never lay it down till that tribe is exterminated, or is driven beyond the Mississippi." Jefferson, the slave owner, continued, "in war, they will kill some of us; we shall destroy all of them".
Lakota Student

actually, thanks for sharing. the indians have gotten the shaft since about 1492. seems to be what has happened to indigenous people in the past worldwide. so, if the quote is accurate and not taken out of context, where do we go from here? are we to surmise that he was a great statesman for white people while at the same time seriously deficient for others? or do we cast aside his failures (learning from them, hopefully) and concentrate on his insights? perhaps, it's not either or, rather recognize the fallibility and greatness incarnate in the human form and pray for wisdom in being able to discern the difference in ourselves, so that we do not fall victim to the former and aspire instead to the latter.

[tumetuestumefais...]

What if he simply was wrong about Indians, perhaps because he was too praising the spirit and the reason of the age? "Beyond Mississippi", it's quite a wide notion when we consider later history of USA. Did he even know what he is talking about? Quite certainly not! Almost nobody was there: "beyond Mississippi" that time he was alive, I mean from the whites. He was certainly completely ignorant what is "beyond Mississippi". It'quite sure. Poor man. But he wasn't, apparenty, too ignorant, what is the general human nature.

Should we really need to view Jefferson as one Perfect man? Or just a man? A great man?

EDIT: I mean what a spirit of freedom, personalized, what we can find in the history of USA (and maybe whole the world of that age)? Is there anybody who expressed more pregnantly and expressly the very general spirits which would include the sense of freedom held by the Indians than Jefferson - I mean among the "white element"?
Let's think more universally. Now the world is smaller, I for example write this with a completely detached view from Europe.. I very much understand Indians can feel being left behind in last centuries, but should we still take it as very present now? - when they, and especially Lakotas and Siouxes are de facto independent on USA now? Why take out the almost obsolete grievances now - when there are new, much actual ones for virtually everybody, and in fact the Jefferson is an inspiration for those left behind everywhere in the world now, very now. Why keep the "they" and "we" among us (because in certain, most important sense we all are "Indians"), when, and especially here at this forum we clearly stand against Them TM - which are really hard to be considered still Humans for us - against the ones who clearly deceive us whenever we are unable to debunk Them, moreover who straightforwardly want to kill us - literally - again (either in US, or Europe or Africa..) - not one or two centuries ago, but now, very now? (because They consider us "idle eaters") Shouldn't we all pay with the Lakota's silver Bull and show Them the middle finger with Their paper "money"? (because we, as persons, as individuals, as people (not the rulers) we have no share of the guilt/debt of the atrocities of the past, nor we desire to have a share on atrocities/debts of the future?)

Just asking.

This post has been edited by tumetuestumefaisdubien: Jul 6 2011, 02:37 AM