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Pilots For 9/11 Truth Forum _ American 77 _ F A Q's - Debunking Fdr Debunking

Posted by: johndoeX Jun 6 2007, 06:11 AM

In the spirit of DRG's latest book "Debunking 9/11 Debunking", i thought i would put together an article for those to help out with the most common so-called "Debunks" of our work.

1. Claim - There are No pilots at pilotsfor911truth.org

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core.html

All above names who are pilots certified by the FAA can be cross referenced here...
https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/

Pilots Question 9/11 (photos here)
http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots.html




2. Claim - The FDR Data stops/is missing 2-6 seconds of data west of the pentagon wall

FDR Recorders built to .5 sec lag maximum standard
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=7152

Radar Altitude Confirms too high
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=4801

NTSB plots aircraft 1 second away from pentagon wall.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f178/myphotos1960/093744.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f178/myphotos1960/jimritter.jpg

American 77 Flight Recorder Position Data - DME Video
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=10751

Lat/Long/DME
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=5388&view=findpost&p=8305238

Putting Fdr "delay" Myth To Rest
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?showtopic=13846

INS vs DME
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?showtopic=15047

Added Oct 2009 - Newly Decoded Data Not Verified, Conflicts with NTSB Flight Path Study, and still shows too high to hit the Pentagon.
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=18239


2a. Claim - The data file terminates at a point west of the Pentagon based on altitude correlation of the MC values recorded by the PLA and IAD radar facilities and the full set of DME data matched to the various VOR's used along the flight path.

FDR Positional/DME Data obtained from a file (RO2) which was decoded by software not intended for use with Aircraft Accident Investigation. Above claim ignores this point. Pilots For 9/11 Truth have not used RO2 for any official analysis published on our main site due to this point alone. Although, we have shown Radar Altitude from RO2 in conjunction with claims made still place the aircraft too high. See claim 3.

Above Radar data processed by a person with an extreme bias for the govt story, has made numerous math errors in the past regarding simple vector analysis and has been shown to be in error of their radar analysis. Above claimant does not know the difference between pressure and true altitude and has admitted a "large potential for human error" in his Radar plot/analysis. When invited for debate by a 3rd party moderator on above claim(s), P4T accepted, claimant refused.

"In general, the final AA77 data in the raw [radar] file differs materially from the processed file."
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?s=&showtopic=16413&view=findpost&p=10765222

"aa77" Final Approach Ground Speed Determination From The 84rades Radar Data, 84Rades and FDR data mutually INCONSISTENT?
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?showtopic=15913

Altitude Correlation determined above based on primary RADES radar returns. NTSB states. "... the altitude estimates from these returns are subject to potentially large errors" when attempting to correlate primary RADES altitude data for Egypt Air 990.

Points within the RADES Data have the alleged AA77 in excess of 50,000 feet.
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?showtopic=13211

RADES Altitude Data is not reliable for correlating position.

Altitude Data impossible to correlate due to inoperative Mode C.

Nav 1 DME recorded 1.5 NM off DCA VOR. The above claim ignores this point.
American 77 Flight Recorder Position Data - DME Video
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=10751

DME Slant Range errors are ignored by above claim.

Repetitive DME returns in excess of regulation intervals in RO2 ignored by above claim.

INS Errors are ignored by above claim (AA77 RO2 positional data shows aircraft departing roughly 3,000 feet south of IAD Runway 30. Illustration - http://www.aa77fdr.com/readout2/LNTTTPos.jpg)

INS vs DME
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?showtopic=15047

See Claim 2 for more information on "missing seconds".


3. Claim - There is altimeter lag in the animation and csv file due to flying outside the aircraft envelope.

Airdata Calibration and Measurement
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=103

FDR Vertical Speed - Altimeter lag issues Addressed
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=73

Radar Altitude Confirms too High
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=4801

Reserved - more info forthcoming



4. Claim - The Information that P4T has analyzed may not be from the NTSB (P4T may have fabricated the information and claims it came from the NTSB)

csv file download and cover letters provided by Undertow
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=64

Raw data decode provided by Undertow
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=4574

Animation cover letters/envelope provided by Snowgrouch
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=375

Animation cover letters provided by Mick Harrison
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=6205

Reserved - More forthcoming

Animation provided by Third party on google video
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6529691284366443405&q=AA77+Animation

George Washington University NTSB Data
http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/index.htm

NTSB FOIA Website
http://www.ntsb.gov/foia/foia_requests.html

NTSB FOIA Contact - Melba D. Moye
202-314-6000

NTSB FOIA Request form -
http://www.ntsb.gov/pubmail/pubmail.aspx


5. Claim - The csv file and animation show a heading along the official flight path.

csv file heading does not line up perfectly with physical damage
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f178/myphotos1960/pentagonASpaint1.jpg

American 77 Flight Path in 3D
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=8166

csv file was altered to show southern approach
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=5083

ThePentaCon
http://thepentacon.com



6. Claim - Pilots For 9/11 Truth has not provided all the data

We have provided all data which pertains to all published research and analysis that is not proprietary in nature. All information/data can be found on links above.



7. Claim - Cover Letter Dated March 22, 2007 says Animation not "Official" that its a "working copy"

Animation cover letter provided by Mick Harrison
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=6205

Animation isnt the only information we have. We also have a Raw file and csv file (see above).

However, the cover letter states the animation "was not used for official purpose" which means it was never used in an investigation. It is an official copy since it was officially provided through the Freedom Of Information Act and from the NTSB. The NTSB notes in the cover letter that they want everything as accurate as possible when providing information through the FOIA, however they note one error which was made to the clock annotation. They do not account for any other possible errors regarding the animation in this cover letter.

Given the fact that all we really need is the last data point - we offer the following article.
FDR Recorders built to .5 sec lag maximum standard
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=7152

8. Claim -
The Flight Data Recorder was found in the Pentagon. How can it be too high?


http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=7322

Can the Govt Get Their Story Straight? - Location of FDR
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/FDR_location_091607.html

Lies, Conflicting Reports, Cover-Up's
Location of American 77 Flight Data Recorder - Part II
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/location_2.html



9. Claim -
New Paper At The Journal Of 9/11 Studies - FDR Analysis Performed By Frank Legge and Warren Stutt


Warren Stutt Decode Shows Altitude too high to Impact Pentagon
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=18239&view=findpost&p=10778240

Vertical and Lateral Acceleration do not shows signs of "impact", proving Longitudinal Deceleration was not due to "impact" as speculated by Legge/Stutt
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=20960&view=findpost&p=10794146

Warren Stutt's admitted lack of expertise with respect to FDR Investigation
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=21131&view=findpost&p=10799563

RA - PA Correlation, proving the "Altitude Divergence" calculated by Legge/Stutt was due to RA measuring from an object higher than ground level. Fatal to the Legge/Stutt argument.
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s&showtopic=20999&view=findpost&p=10794074

If Legge/Stutt "Altitude Divergence" calculations were correct, Aircraft would be slamming into the ground. IAD ILS RWY 01R Approach Analysis, Instruments required for IFR Flight Based on Regulation.
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s&showtopic=20960&view=findpost&p=10793490

Calculations based on Stutt Theory with respect to RA Tracking Capability, proving Stutt's theory false.
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=18239&view=findpost&p=10794159

More confirmation supporting RA Tracking Capability referenced is in fact a longitudinal velocity, and not the vertical velocity as speculated by Legge/Stutt
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=18239&view=findpost&p=10803407

Explains Lack Of Attention To Detail in the very first paragraph of the Legge/Stutt "Paper"
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=20960&view=findpost&p=10793061

Proof of Legge trying to weasel his way out of mis/disinformation he has presented
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=20960&view=findpost&p=10793501

A Response To Frank Legge And Warren Stutt, P4T rebuttal to Legge/Stutt "Paper" and "Rebuttal"
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=21025

Warren Stutt Refuses to Address the tough questions
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=21025&view=findpost&p=10803075

Legge/Stutt Admit to Leaving Erroneous References in their paper as a "Honey Pot" trap for readers
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=21569&view=findpost&p=10803456

More statements from FDR Expert Dennis Ciminio
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=18239&view=findpost&p=10803408
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=18239&view=findpost&p=10803429

Cit Publishes Response To David Chandler & Jonathan Cole's Joint Statement About The 9/11 Pentagon Attack
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=21054




10. Claim - P4T produced a "fake" VG Diagram.

Many manufacturers do not include aircraft VG diagrams in their aircraft flight manuals due to the fact you can plot your own if the limitations are known. The VG diagram we plotted is not "fake" nor "manipulated". It represents the limitations of the Boeing 767 according to the Boeing Type Certificate Data Sheet including weights and altitude. A typical VG diagram was used with the 767 limitations inserted into their respective positions in the diagram. It is an accurate depiction of the relevant Boeing 767 limitations for the purpose of 9/11 research.

More details here....

Original VG Diagram
http://www.free-online-private-pilot-ground-school.com/Load_factors.html
(scroll down to Figure 4)

VG Diagram depicting Boeing 767 Limitations using typical VG Diagram above.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f178/myphotos1960/767_V-G_Diagram_Illustrated_Guide_To_Aerodynamics.jpg

Boeing 767 Diagram created using VG Diagram from Illustrated Guide To Aerodynamics
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/p4t/Boeing_767_VG_Diagram.jpg

Duhbunkers Unable To Plot Vg Diagram With Data
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=21888&view=findpost&p=10803788
(includes a short 3rd party instructional video of how to plot your own VG diagram if the data/limitations are known)

Simulator Recreation Demonstrates Pentagon Attack Impossibility
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=20969&st=0&p=10793146&#entry10793146

Evidence Strengthens To Support WTC Aircraft Speed Analysis
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/wtc_speed_part2.html

These are some of the most common arguments when discussing Pilots For 9/11 Truth analysis regarding the information provided by the NTSB. In order to copy and paste whole links (you will get broken links from a direct copy/paste), please click quote (quote this post), copy and paste the whole quote box below to the site you wish to reply. I will add common arguments as they arise. Hope this is helpful.

Posted by: Cary Jun 6 2007, 10:11 AM

Good one Rob.

Posted by: Carl Bank Jun 6 2007, 11:19 AM

Rob, this is what I call accurate.

I'm glad you don't work for the german IRS and check
my accountings ...

not my real name, btw: Carl tongue.gif

Posted by: painter Jun 6 2007, 11:39 AM

For copy and paste:

CODE
[b]1. Claim - There are No pilots at pilotsfor911truth.org[/b]

[url="http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core.html"]http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core.html[/url]

All above names who are pilots certified by the FAA can be cross referenced here...
[url="https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/"]https://amsrvs.registry.faa.gov/airmeninquiry/[/url]

Pilots Question 9/11 (photos here)
[url="http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots.html"]http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots.html[/url]




[b]2. Claim - The FDR Data stops/is missing 2-6 seconds of data west of the pentagon wall[/b]

FDR Recorders built to .5 sec lag maximum standard
[url="http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=7152"]http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...showtopic=7152[/url]

Radar Altitude Confirms too high
[url="http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=4801"]http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...showtopic=4801[/url]

NTSB plots aircraft 1 second away from pentagon wall.
[url="http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f178/myphotos1960/093744.jpg"]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f178/myp...1960/093744.jpg[/url]
[url="http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f178/myphotos1960/jimritter.jpg"]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f178/myp...0/jimritter.jpg[/url]

American 77 Flight Recorder Position Data - DME Video
[url="http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=10751"]http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...showtopic=10751[/url]

Lat/Long/DME
[url="http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=5388&view=findpost&p=8305238"]http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...t&p=8305238[/url]

Putting Fdr "delay" Myth To Rest
[url="http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?showtopic=13846"]http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....showtopic=13846[/url]

INS vs DME
[url="http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?showtopic=15047"]http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....showtopic=15047[/url]


[b]2a. Claim - The data file terminates at a point west of the Pentagon based on altitude correlation of the MC values recorded by the PLA and IAD radar facilities and the full set of DME data matched to the various VOR's used along the flight path. [/b]

FDR Positional/DME Data obtained from a file (RO2) which was decoded by software not intended for use with Aircraft Accident Investigation. Above claim ignores this point. Pilots For 9/11 Truth have not used RO2 for any official analysis published on our main site due to this point alone. Although, we have shown Radar Altitude from RO2 in conjunction with claims made still place the aircraft too high. See claim 3.

Above Radar data processed by a person with an extreme bias for the govt story, has made numerous math errors in the past regarding simple vector analysis and has been shown to be in error of their radar analysis. Above claimant does not know the difference between pressure and true altitude and has admitted a "large potential for human error" in his Radar plot/analysis. When invited for debate by a 3rd party moderator on above claim(s), P4T accepted, claimant refused.

"In general, the final AA77 data in the raw [radar] file differs materially from the processed file."
[url="http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?s=&showtopic=16413&view=findpost&p=10765222"]http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10765222[/url]

"aa77" Final Approach Ground Speed Determination From The 84rades Radar Data, 84Rades and FDR data mutually INCONSISTENT?
[url="http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?showtopic=15913"]http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....showtopic=15913[/url]

Altitude Correlation determined above based on primary RADES radar returns. NTSB states. "... [b]the altitude estimates from these returns are subject to potentially large errors[/b]" when attempting to correlate primary RADES altitude data for Egypt Air 990.

Points within the RADES Data have the alleged AA77 in excess of 50,000 feet.
[url="http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?showtopic=13211"]http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....showtopic=13211[/url]

RADES Altitude Data is not reliable for correlating position.

Altitude Data impossible to correlate due to inoperative Mode C.

Nav 1 DME recorded 1.5 NM off DCA VOR. The above claim ignores this point.
American 77 Flight Recorder Position Data - DME Video
[url="http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=10751"]http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...showtopic=10751[/url]

DME Slant Range errors are ignored by above claim.

Repetitive DME returns in excess of regulation intervals in RO2 ignored by above claim.

INS Errors are ignored by above claim (AA77 RO2 positional data shows aircraft departing roughly 3,000 feet south of IAD Runway 30. Illustration - [url="http://www.aa77fdr.com/readout2/LNTTTPos.jpg"]http://www.aa77fdr.com/readout2/LNTTTPos.jpg[/url]

INS vs DME
[url="http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?showtopic=15047"]http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....showtopic=15047[/url]

See Claim 2 for more information on "missing seconds".


[b]3. Claim - There is altimeter lag in the animation and csv file due to flying outside the aircraft envelope.[/b]

Airdata Calibration and Measurement
[url="http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=103"]http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...p?showtopic=103[/url]

FDR Vertical Speed - Altimeter lag issues Addressed
[url="http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=73"]http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...hp?showtopic=73[/url]

Radar Altitude Confirms too High
[url="http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=4801"]http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...showtopic=4801[/url]

Reserved - more info forthcoming



[b]4. Claim - The Information that P4T has analyzed may not be from the NTSB (P4T may have fabricated the information and claims it came from the NTSB)[/b]

csv file download and cover letters provided by Undertow
[url="http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=64"]http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...hp?showtopic=64[/url]

Raw data decode provided by Undertow
[url="http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=4574"]http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...showtopic=4574[/url]

Animation cover letters/envelope provided by Snowgrouch
[url="http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=375"]http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...p?showtopic=375[/url]

Animation cover letters provided by Mick Harrison
[url="http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=6205"]http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...showtopic=6205[/url]

Reserved - More forthcoming

Animation provided by Third party on google video
[url="http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=6529691284366443405&q=AA77+Animation"]http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=65...=AA77+Animation[/url]

George Washington University NTSB Data
[url="http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/index.htm"]http://www.gwu.edu/%7Ensarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB196/index.htm[/url]

NTSB FOIA Website
[url="http://www.ntsb.gov/info/foia_fri.htm"]http://www.ntsb.gov/info/foia_fri.htm[/url]

NTSB FOIA Contact - Melba D. Moye
202-314-6000

NTSB FOIA Request form -
[url="http://www.ntsb.gov/pubmail/pubmail.asp"]http://www.ntsb.gov/pubmail/pubmail.asp[/url]



[b]5. Claim - The csv file and animation show a heading along the official flight path.[/b]

csv file heading does not line up perfectly with physical damage
[url="http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f178/myphotos1960/pentagonASpaint1.jpg"]http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f178/myp...gonASpaint1.jpg[/url]

American 77 Flight Path in 3D
[url="http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=8166"]http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...showtopic=8166[/url]

csv file was altered to show southern approach
[url="http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=5083"]http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...showtopic=5083[/url]

ThePentaCon
[url="http://thepentacon.com"]http://thepentacon.com[/url]



[b]6. Claim - Pilots For 9/11 Truth has not provided all the data[/b]

We have provided all data which pertains to all published research and analysis that is not proprietary in nature. All information/data can be found on links above.




[b]7. Claim - Cover Letter Dated March 22, 2007 says Animation not "Official" that its a "working copy"[/b]

Animation cover letter provided by Mick Harrison
[url="http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=6205"]http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...showtopic=6205[/url]

Animation isnt the only information we have. We also have a Raw file and csv file (see above).

However, the cover letter states the animation "was not used for official purpose" which means it was never used in an investigation. It is an official copy since it was officially provided through the Freedom Of Information Act and from the NTSB. The NTSB notes in the cover letter that they want everything as accurate as possible when providing information through the FOIA, however they note one error which was made to the clock annotation. They do not account for any other possible errors regarding the animation in this cover letter.

Given the fact that all we really need is the last data point - we offer the following article.
FDR Recorders built to .5 sec lag maximum standard
[url="http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=7152"]http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...showtopic=7152[/url]

[b]8. Claim -
The Flight Data Recorder was found in the Pentagon. How can it be too high?[/b]

[url="http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=7322"]http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum...showtopic=7322[/url]

Can the Govt Get Their Story Straight? - Location of FDR
[url="http://pilotsfor911truth.org/FDR_location_091607.html"]http://pilotsfor911truth.org/FDR_location_091607.html[/url][/quote]

Posted by: Drakey Jun 8 2007, 10:51 AM

awesome post thumbsup.gif

get this submitted to 911blogger/prison planet cheers.gif

Posted by: johndoeX Jun 8 2007, 03:31 PM

http://www.911blogger.com/node/9193


It was also sent to Alex.

Posted by: johndoeX Jun 23 2007, 04:32 AM

updated with "FDR found in Pentagon" claim.

Posted by: johndoeX Jul 11 2007, 01:44 AM

Updated "FDR is missing 2-6 seconds" claim with...

QUOTE
NTSB plots aircraft 1 second away from pentagon wall.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f178/myphotos1960/093744.jpg
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f178/myphotos1960/jimritter.jpg

Posted by: rob balsamo Sep 5 2007, 02:14 AM

OP Edited to add:

American 77 Flight Path In 3D
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=8166

Posted by: rob balsamo Feb 16 2008, 03:02 AM

OP edited to add American 77 Flight Recorder Position Data and Lat/Long/DME thread.

Also... numbered claims for easier reference.

Posted by: rob balsamo Jul 15 2008, 02:02 AM

Added to Claim 2 of OP.

Putting Fdr "delay" Myth To Rest
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?showtopic=13846

Posted by: rob balsamo Oct 4 2008, 01:13 PM

Added INS vs DME to OP


INS vs DME
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?showtopic=15047

Posted by: rob balsamo Jul 15 2009, 12:13 PM

added Claim 2a above in Original post... Radar Positional Data vs FDR

Posted by: rob balsamo Nov 22 2009, 12:52 PM

Added newly decoded data thread/discussion under claim 2 above.

Posted by: onesliceshort Nov 23 2009, 08:52 PM

Excellent job Rob.
Especially for the laymen amongst us trying to defend you guys smile.gif
The link I havenīt touched on yet as I wanted to save the best for last
is the ATS thread on the detractors....sweet.

Posted by: THE_DECIDER May 19 2010, 02:50 AM

wow! awsome thread and great information...

Posted by: rob balsamo May 9 2011, 08:50 AM

Added Claim 9 to OP regarding research performed by Legge/Stutt, for easier reference.


9. Claim -
New Paper At The Journal Of 9/11 Studies - FDR Analysis Performed By Frank Legge and Warren Stutt


Warren Stutt Decode Shows Altitude too high to Impact Pentagon
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=18239&view=findpost&p=10778240

Vertical and Lateral Acceleration do not shows signs of "impact", proving Longitudinal Deceleration was not due to "impact" as speculated by Legge/Stutt
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=20960&view=findpost&p=10794146

Warren Stutt's admitted lack of expertise with respect to FDR Investigation
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=21131&view=findpost&p=10799563

RA - PA Correlation, proving the "Altitude Divergence" calculated by Legge/Stutt was due to RA measuring from an object higher than ground level. Fatal to the Legge/Stutt argument.
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s&showtopic=20999&view=findpost&p=10794074

If Legge/Stutt "Altitude Divergence" calculations were correct, Aircraft would be slamming into the ground. IAD ILS RWY 01R Approach Analysis, Instruments required for IFR Flight Based on Regulation.
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s&showtopic=20960&view=findpost&p=10793490

Calculations based on Stutt Theory with respect to RA Tracking Capability, proving Stutt's theory false.
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=18239&view=findpost&p=10794159

More confirmation supporting RA Tracking Capability referenced is in fact a longitudinal velocity, and not the vertical velocity as speculated by Legge/Stutt
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=18239&view=findpost&p=10803407

Explains Lack Of Attention To Detail in the very first paragraph of the Legge/Stutt "Paper"
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=20960&view=findpost&p=10793061

Proof of Legge trying to weasel his way out of mis/disinformation he has presented
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=20960&view=findpost&p=10793501

A Response To Frank Legge And Warren Stutt, P4T rebuttal to Legge/Stutt "Paper" and "Rebuttal"
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=21025

Warren Stutt Refuses to Address the tough questions
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=21025&view=findpost&p=10803075

Legge/Stutt Admit to Leaving Erroneous References in their paper as a "Honey Pot" trap for readers
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=21569&view=findpost&p=10803456

More statements from FDR Expert Dennis Ciminio
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=18239&view=findpost&p=10803408
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=18239&view=findpost&p=10803429

Cit Publishes Response To David Chandler & Jonathan Cole's Joint Statement About The 9/11 Pentagon Attack
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=21054


Posted by: rob balsamo Aug 19 2011, 03:14 PM

added to claim 9 in OP

Warren Stutt's admitted lack of expertise with respect to FDR Investigation
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=21131&view=findpost&p=10799563

Posted by: maturin42 Aug 19 2011, 05:59 PM

Excellent, Rob. This would really be handy for bloggerites and loyalists to visit and meditate on the error of their ways.

Posted by: rob balsamo Jan 9 2012, 09:47 AM

added to claim 9 in OP

More confirmation supporting RA Tracking Capability referenced is in fact a longitudinal velocity, and not the vertical velocity as speculated by Legge/Stutt
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=18239&view=findpost&p=10803407

Warren Stutt Refuses to Address the tough questions
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=21025&view=findpost&p=10803075

Legge/Stutt Admit to Leaving Erroneous References in their paper as a "Honey Pot" trap for readers
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=21569&view=findpost&p=10803456

More statements from FDR Expert Dennis Ciminio
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=18239&view=findpost&p=10803408
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=18239&view=findpost&p=10803429

Posted by: amazed! Oct 20 2012, 03:18 PM

Good stuff Rob! thumbsup.gif

Posted by: rob balsamo Jul 12 2013, 06:34 PM

Updated original post to include the govt loyalist claim of "faked" VG Diagram.

10. Claim - P4T produced a "fake" VG Diagram.

Many manufacturers do not include aircraft VG diagrams in their aircraft flight manuals due to the fact you can plot your own if the limitations are known. The VG diagram we plotted is not "fake" nor "manipulated". It represents the limitations of the Boeing 767 according to the Boeing Type Certificate Data Sheet including weights and altitude. A typical VG diagram was used with the 767 limitations inserted into their respective positions in the diagram. It is an accurate depiction of the relevant Boeing 767 limitations for the purpose of 9/11 research.

More details here....

Original VG Diagram
http://www.free-online-private-pilot-ground-school.com/Load_factors.html
(scroll down to Figure 4)

VG Diagram depicting Boeing 767 Limitations using typical VG Diagram above.
http://i47.photobucket.com/albums/f178/myphotos1960/767_V-G_Diagram_Illustrated_Guide_To_Aerodynamics.jpg

Boeing 767 Diagram created using VG Diagram from Illustrated Guide To Aerodynamics
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/p4t/Boeing_767_VG_Diagram.jpg

Duhbunkers Unable To Plot Vg Diagram With Data
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=21888&view=findpost&p=10803788
(includes a short 3rd party instructional video of how to plot your own VG diagram if the data/limitations are known)

Skygate 911 VG Diagram Demonstration/Instruction
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9R8-3W-nkU

Simulator Recreation Demonstrates Pentagon Attack Impossibility
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=20969&st=0&p=10793146&#entry10793146

Evidence Strengthens To Support WTC Aircraft Speed Analysis
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/wtc_speed_part2.html

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