We Will Create A New America And A New World, email from Kucinich? Options

[rob balsamo]

just got this in my email....

We will create a New America and a New World
Tuesday, January 6, 2009 10:44 AM
From: "Kucinich Committee" <reply@kucinichforcongress.com>
To: pilots@pilotsfor911truth.org

We will create a New America and a New World


View this important New Year message from Congressman Dennis Kucinich
http://kucinich.us/index.php?option=com_co...8&Itemid=76

The hope that exists in the energy of the new year is in our ability to create new conditions. We can draw forth peace from war and wealth from poverty.

Listen to this important New Year message from Congressman Dennis Kucinich.

Thank you

The Re-Elect Congressman Kucinich Committee

I havent listened yet....

[Sanders]

Hmmmmm

Kucinich is well intentioned - but he does not understand the basics. "It's possible for each person to have a job, to have health care, to have a chance for investments that are protected ... "

No no no no no, Dennis, it's possible for America to be prosperous WITHOUT the interference of "helpful" government. In fact, it is always with these "good intentions" that government power has been increased incrementally over the last century, until we are in between the pincers of taxation, inflation and corruption. Kuchinich wants to take the power away from the bad people and give it to the good people - but not return it to the PEOPLE. He is simply dickering with where the money gets spent. What money? Money that is created by selling bonds to the FED, who sell the money to the government at interest. There's the source of our problems, and, I'm sorry, but, as much as I like Kucinich and respect him for getting impeachment resolutions before the House, he is ... sort of clueless.

You know, I can tell it in his voice, see it in his eyes - not a bad guy, a good guy - which we need more of - but he doesn't really understand what's going on, and so is a bit weak in his convictions.

IMHO

[Rickysa]

I must admit I was disppointed in it....especially the heavy "send in those donations" bits.

Optimism is a good thing, but he isn't addressing the real evil behind the financial mess...the debt.

Sanders, you are spot on...You can't fix debt by making more of it....nobama wants to build brides/roads/schools to create jobs...where ya' gonna get the money dude...can't just print up more...I really like the guy (kuch, not bama), but just as you said, kinda clueless.

Rick

This post has been edited by Rickysa: Jan 6 2009, 01:26 PM

[painter]

@ Sanders and Rickysa: I haven't watched it yet but, knowing you guys, I suspect you are correct. OK, so here is the deal, he is "uneducated" -- not swimming in the same information stream we are -- feeding on different 'fish'. So, what do we do about that?

[Rickysa]

@ Sanders and Rickysa: I haven't watched it yet but, knowing you guys, I suspect you are correct. OK, so here is the deal, he is "uneducated" -- not swimming in the same information stream we are -- feeding on different 'fish'. So, what do we do about that?

Beat your head against the wall and pour another glass of wine. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/sad.gif)

I wanted to respond to a post you made elsewhere concerning what I feel myself as a personal malaise...I believe you were commenting on cocktail partys where the guests were blitheley oblivious...well, that's how I feel about all of DC.

It is all simple math, yet they refuse to pull their collective heads out of their rear ends to acknowledge it. They have been given the info...

The Hill has been hammered with faxes and phone calls (every single member of congress and the White House multiple times) with information that spells out what needs to be done. Instead they do just the opposite...they give the drunk another fifth of whiskey.

They simply refuse to bite the bullet....Paulson/Berneke are not ignorant...they know the score...but they continue to act contrary (now and as history as shown) rather than to act accordingly.

Why? That is a question to ponder, and another discussion.

I'm so F**CKING frustrated I can't stand it. 9/11, our financial situation....etc.

What to do? I truly don't think we have any choice...we really don't have a weapon. I watched a video of Policestapoes peppering a peaceful demonstration, then club them, then hit them with pepper bullets....for no legal reason....

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/sob.gif) Rick

PS. Believe it or not, I was going to call Kucinich to ask him the very question you posed (before I received his email)...why was Congress feeding the financial bonfire?, what should we do if a major dislocation occurs? If civil unrest due to the actions of the current governing body were to occur, would anyone stand apart and lead (You, perchance, since you led the impeachment charge?)

I don't know, Painter, I truly don't know...

This post has been edited by Rickysa: Jan 6 2009, 04:24 PM

[Sanders]

...So, what do we do about that?

Good question.

I've e-mailed Kucinich before - I got a "stock" response. Really, and I hate to say it because the turnover time is gonna be slow, the answer is in educating people to what's really happening. Then the chances of people sensitive to the real issues and on the side of the people will (if they can overcome the obstacles of vote-rigging) be elected in numbers whereas things can start getting turned around.

Or, a million people storm the White House and take the government back by force.

Or, things go along as they are and we all wind up with a chip in our arm (or defiant and destitute).


I hope for #1, doubt that #2 would ever happen or if it did would be successful, and expect #3.

[p.w.rapp]

I hope for #1, doubt that #2 would ever happen or if it did would be successful, and expect #3.

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/handsdown.gif) 2nd:rapp

[Rickysa]

Good question.

I've e-mailed Kucinich before - I got a "stock" response. Really, and I hate to say it because the turnover time is gonna be slow, the answer is in educating people to what's really happening. Then the chances of people sensitive to the real issues and on the side of the people will (if they can overcome the obstacles of vote-rigging) be elected in numbers whereas things can start getting turned around.

Or, a million people storm the White House and take the government back by force.

Or, things go along as they are and we all wind up with a chip in our arm (or defiant and destitute).


I hope for #1, doubt that #2 would ever happen or if it did would be successful, and expect #3.

Agreed in total...

And THAT is what is so frustrating!!

I will not settle for #3...period

#1 will never occur for so many reasons, and #2 will never be successful (without a coup d'etat using our own military)

Which opens up another topic for discussion....should we see #3 on the horizon, do you live off the grid (if possible) for as long as possible? Do you pull up the tent stakes and hit the road? (to where)

As I don't want to hijack the thread, the above are rhetorical, but something I really wonder about....

Rick

[grizz]

I have enormous respect for Dennis. I met him after a rally here in '04 and really liked him.

But the idea that government will save is is completely ridiculous. Government is the problem, not the solution.

The best thing we can do as individuals is to turn away from government, to take control of our own lives, and solve our own problems in the smaller worlds of our friends, families and communities. In my mind there is no other answer.

Personal responsibility is one of the major things that the 'system' has bred out of us. We have been taught that everything is somebody else's fault. That our success or failure comes from somewhere besides us.

Working within the system does not work, because it entails working for the system. The system is bogus, an illusion. What is real is ourselves and the real people that we can see and touch in real life.

So forget about all that distant nonsense in DC and NYC. Reach out to those around you, because they are the ones you are going to need and the ones you are going to help. Create your own circles of sincere human beings and get ready for the inevitable disintegration of our 'society'.

For it's a good thing. It's what we need. Embrace the true change that is coming.

[Rickysa]

But, OF, I wonder if government will allow us to do that?

And that is my greatest concern.

We are fairly rural and have been preparing for awhile now...we have a small group of self-reliant folks from different walks that seems to cover most of the bases and forms a loose neighborly friendship.

So, if our republic survives, we're ok....

It's just if it doesn't...

[grizz]

But, OF, I wonder if government will allow us to do that?

And that is my greatest concern.

We are fairly rural and have been preparing for awhile now...we have a small group of self-reliant folks from different walks that seems to cover most of the bases and forms a loose neighborly friendship.

So, if our republic survives, we're ok....

It's just if it doesn't...

Who cares if the government allows it or not. Just do it anyway. It sounds like you're on the right track.

The primary weapon they use is fear. If we reject fear, they lose.

[grizz]

The Revolution Will Not Be Organized

[Rickysa]

From the above:

"No, my children and I will not come with you"

Amen

[painter]

Interesting to watch this discussion.

Didn't Kucinich indicate a couple years ago that he was willing to open up a "limited" investigation into 9/11? What happened to that?

Personally, I think Dennis knows. The question is, what can he (or anyone, really) do about it? 9/11 is a crime of State and, as such, all the relevant evidence that would prove it conclusively is classified as a matter of national security. No investigation can proceed without clearance to access classified information. Most of it is probably so classified the fact that it is classified is also classified (cf, Aidan Monaghan's recent blog entry). Anyone like Sibel Edmonds, who would have access to incriminating information and might want to go before Congress or a special prosecutor to testify might find themselves, as in her case, heavily gaged.

We need to make as coherent and cogent packages of information as we can and make sure Dennis (et al) have it. I made a point in my letters to Congresscritter (Lee) and senators (Feinstein, Pelosi) to say that "now you have been informed and should any of this ever come to light neither you nor your office can claim ignorance of the facts."

From my vantage point what it is really all about is understanding how the world actually works. That is to say it obviously does not work the way we've been told and yet, at the same time, it does not NOT work that way, either. In other words, there is a criminal class that makes the rules that apply to everyone but themselves. At the same time, the gears of democracy DO "work" up to a certain point. It is as if "democracy" or "self rule" whatever you want to call it, is more a possibility than an actuality. The criminal class want us to think it works, or, at least, that it could work -- all this keeps us happy (albeit frustrated) sheep. Meanwhile we do whatever we do and they do whatever they do and the horse-race is on.

Lots of possibilities here. Oceans is pointing to one aspect -- the need to build self-reliance and community -- because the "wheels" of civilization as we've known it are coming off. On one hand this is a good and necessary thing. On the other hand it could (and probably will) get very ugly. And when you stir that pot, you never know what is going to bubble to the surface. There really ARE weapons of mass -- I MEAN MASSIVE -- destruction. Most of them are in the hands of "our" military and if they were unleashed there is no counting what they could do. So much for community organizing! Moreover, the criminal class have already bought up all the aquifers and set aside parcels of land for themselves into which they and their progeny can retire indefinitely or as needed. (Has anyone seen the old scifi movie "ZARDOZ" -- if not, I recommend it.)

They have their "vision" of the future and what is necessary to bring it about. Do we have ours?

This is the problem I think we have. WE DO NOT HAVE A COHERENT VISION OF AN ALTERNATIVE FUTURE. I've been harping on this for a long time now. The closest thing that has been presented recently is in Zeitgeist II Addendum -- not saying that is "it" exactly, but the point is at least it IS a vision -- and it even makes some sense. The idea behind it being, you can't fight the criminal class on their own terms or with their own weapons. You have to cut them off at the knees. You have to build create alternatives that a) exposes them for the terrified psychotic megalomaniacs they actually are on one hand while B) depriving them of any sense of authority or integrity or power on the other. OUT WITH THE OLD FARTS! IN WITH THE NEW!!

The media is the mirage!

[grizz]

Lots of possibilities here. Oceans is pointing to one aspect -- the need to build self-reliance and community -- because the "wheels" of civilization as we've known it are coming off. On one hand this is a good and necessary thing. On the other hand it could (and probably will) get very ugly. And when you stir that pot, you never know what is going to bubble to the surface. There really ARE weapons of mass -- I MEAN MASSIVE -- destruction. Most of them are in the hands of "our" military and if they were unleashed there is no counting what they could do. So much for community organizing! Moreover, the criminal class have already bought up all the aquifers and set aside parcels of land for themselves into which they and their progeny can retire indefinitely or as needed. (Has anyone seen the old scifi movie "ZARDOZ" -- if not, I recommend it.)

I think I've told you before that Zardoz is my favorite movie. And yes they™ do have weapons against which we have no defense. But that is certainly no reason to give up, or to not create new ways of living in our communities.

In the end they™ could destroy us all, as they wait it out in their DUMBs. Yet I see no alternative for us other than doing our best to be the future that we want. We can't beat them at their own game. In fact, I believe that is the wrong course, because it entails tying into their fear.

Love can only rule if we love one another. Actually, we have to learn the hardest lesson of all. We must love them™ and forgive them™. That is the only way to destroy their influence on the world.

[dMz]

Who cares if the government allows it or not. Just do it anyway. It sounds like you're on the right track.

The primary weapon they use is fear. If we reject fear, they lose.

Although I'm not sure this is the correct place (the years-old details are a little "fuzzy" from those nights (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ) one could learn a LOT hanging out at a place voted the "best dive bar in America." The place that I'm thinking of was mainly populated by punk rockers and bikers [yes, the motorcycle kind], and it still had the original? hitching posts and wooden sidewalks up "north" in Scottsdale, AZ.

This might be the place:

Rogue Bar

Categories: Dance Clubs, Dive Bars [Edit]
423 N Scottsdale Rd
Scottsdale, AZ 85257
(480) 947-3580

http://www.yelp.com/biz/rogue-bar-scottsdale

http://www.yelp.com/biz_photos/4a9Rypytzdz...x_q5BeIDr28FVvQ

[Rickysa]

IMHO:

RE 9/11

1). There will never be an accounting for 9/11. I say that because it is SO DAMN OBVIOUS that the OCT is BS...if something were going to happen...it would have...

2). At some point we will reach some form of critical mass (1 million marching in DC and LA and NY) and the powers that be cannot ignore the facts in their faces...then we will need prosecutors and courtrooms to convict those that are so insular they can't be, or won't be, touched. Does Paraguay allow extradition?

3). Things will go on, just as they did with JFK, etc. The "magic bullet" has survived for almost 45 years, and anyone that cogitates knows that is BS.


Regarding our society, our republic....one could argue a coup has already occurred..that which defines our republic (Constitution) has been "overturned" in areas, as we are closely approaching an oligarchy

There are so many ways it can go....

1). Collapse of our financial system so severe that it brings down our "government" leading to civil unrest that will be contained by a nationwide martial law....confiscation of all firearms...rounding up of dissidents...a la Alex Jones

2). Civil unrest is so severe that we see anarchy... which will create a vacuum that another oligarchy comes to power with severely restricted (if any) freedoms.

3). The Republic survives, but quality of life changes in a drastic form....financial collapse leads to extensive rioting in the metropolitan areas where martial law is declared (not nationwide)...food/meds/protection/etc. becomes scarce...but small communities are able to survive.

4). others..

A financial sh*t storm is coming...there is no way to avoid it...the longer we throw gas (bailouts) on the fire (debt) the worse it will be...1873 panic...I'm thinking worse

I'm guessing one must keep a vigilant eye, and be ready (like to act overnight) for whatever version of our alternative future we see develop.

This post has been edited by Rickysa: Jan 6 2009, 07:14 PM

[dMz]

I think I've told you before that Zardoz is my favorite movie. And yes they™ do have weapons against which we have no defense. But that is certainly no reason to give up, or to not create new ways of living in our communities.

In the end they™ could destroy us all, as they wait it out in their DUMBs. Yet I see no alternative for us other than doing our best to be the future that we want. We can't beat them at their own game. In fact, I believe that is the wrong course, because it entails tying into their fear.

Love can only rule if we love one another. Actually, we have to learn the hardest lesson of all. We must love them™ and forgive them™. That is the only way to destroy their influence on the world.

I've never seen Zardoz... But having been on "the inside" and having personally had a hand in designing/implementing some of Their^TM weapons, I'm not certain that the paradigm that those weapons were designed for still exists... [Think Russia, circa 1998 or so...]

I did it. Perhaps the universe will follow suit...

Bob Dylan - The Times They Are A Changin' (Unreleased 1976)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ_XwLSN45I

[grizz]

Yeah, dMole. It's really an individual thing. One by one...