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Bush Continues To Call For Open Borders, With Mexico

Quest
post Feb 16 2007, 12:42 PM
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http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/febru...207Insanity.htm

Bordering On Insanity: Bush Continues to Call for Open Borders With Mexico

Lou Dobbs Tonight -- CNN
http://www.americanpatrol.com/
Friday, February 16, 2007

Bush: We need a temporary worker program so that people don't try to sneak in the country to work. That they can come in an orderly fashion and take the pressure off the Border Patrol agents that we've got out there so that the Border Patrol agents don't focus on workers that are doing jobs Americans aren't doing but are focusing on terrorists and criminal elements, gun runners to keep both our countries safe.
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nappy
post Feb 16 2007, 07:32 PM
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Im no fan of Bush. The man should be censured..maybe even impeached. But I fail to see how a strictly enforced guest worker program is tantamount to an "open border".
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Sanders
post Feb 17 2007, 02:21 AM
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QUOTE (nappy @ Feb 17 2007, 08:32 AM)
...But I fail to see how a strictly enforced guest worker program is tantamount to an "open border".

Stricktly enforced?? You're joking, right?

Put aside whether its good or bad or right or wrong, the Feds would do NOTHING to make sure something like that was stricktly enforced - why should they? The more people that abuse it the better for them - why do you think they want this 'North American Union' thing? They want slave labor for manufacturing, or as close as they can get to it. Did you know that large corporations actually USE slave labor in the US? They go into penitentiaries and where convicts work for them for next to nothing - all these FEMA/Army labor camps going up, look at the congressional orders - what do they call it? "civilian inmate labor program". Get it straight, the US government works for US business... we the people are cattle. They sugar coat everthing to lull us into believing we live in a democracy or a free republic or something, but it's a mirage. There may have been a time when it was iffy, or maybe, or a case by case thing, but they're been sneaking over the line so often for so long they are a MILE over the line. It's institutionalized! That's why this "war on terror" crap works so well for them - the know-nothings working for the government at the bottom of the pile do the stuff they're supposed to, without ever understanding why.

wink.gif
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Lights
post Feb 17 2007, 04:29 AM
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So far as I am concerned, Bush and Co. should be putting pressure on Mexico to make life better for its citizens, thus possibly easing illegal entries into this country. I can understand WHY Mexicans want to come here--it's a no-brainer. Bush and his cronies will never do the above because they WANT slave labour over here to keep pressure on to drive wages down. This Union thing with Mexico doesn't help America worth anything!

I too doubt the governemnt would do anything approaching strictly enforcing strict control of our borders...they haven't so far.
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Sanders
post Feb 17 2007, 05:15 AM
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Well said, Lights salute.gif





(so THAT's how you spell 'strictly' tongue.gif )
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Beached
post Feb 17 2007, 09:08 AM
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I am sick and tired of Alex Jones attacking open border policies as though they are an affront to American national sovereignty. Typically, this appeals to self-centered, apathetic individuals, as it is an easy solution to a difficult problem. Rather than consider the circumstances under which many Mexicans are living, and the culminating factors leading them to risk so much for a better chance in life; people like AJ see the solution in strengthening our borders, and tightening the patrol! This is even more surprising when we consider it is coming from a man who constantly warns us of the Police State - What a hypocrite! As with everything else, rather than offer a rational solution, he teaches us to fear the immigrants, and tells us that we must keep them out!

When I lived in Phoenix, not only did I find Mexicans to be some of the nicest people you could ever meet, but contrary to the popular stereotype, it is their diligence and willingness that landed them the poorly paid jobs - the very jobs most Americans consider to be beneath themselves.

Therefore, the solution lies in ensuring that employers do not take advantage of slave labor, and instead enforce a minimum wage.

This post has been edited by Beached: Feb 17 2007, 10:09 AM
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nappy
post Feb 17 2007, 01:06 PM
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I dont see why its so difficult to ensure that minimum wage standards are enforced for all employees. its actually part of my job. contractors are required to submit wage affidavits, including social security numbers and addresses of all employees, stating that they are aware of their mandated minimum wage for their title. if their is a reason to believe that contractors are not being truthful, an investigator goes out to find the truth. every employer in the united states should have to follow similar guidelines.

its big brother watching over you...I know. But whats the alternative? citizens and non-citizens being paid 20 cents an hour.
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Sanders
post Feb 17 2007, 01:30 PM
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QUOTE (nappy @ Feb 18 2007, 02:06 AM)
But whats the alternative?  citizens and non-citizens being paid 20 cents an hour.

Wouldn't the LOVE that!

There's the rub. Competition. The US government is an instrument of businessmen, globalists, call 'em what you like. They are the hundreds of the richest, most heartless and disjointed from everyday humanity that you can get, I know, I've been studying them. For them, it's good business to open up the borders, to them, it's good business to NOT enforce any sort of immigration laws or ask people for documentation or demand visas for Mexicans to work. So it gets enforced in a half-@ssed way. It always will - at least as long as the US government operates as an arm of the corporate elite.

I'm not saying what's right and what's wrong, I lived in Arizona for 4 years, in Tucson, just 100 miles from the Mexican border. I wouldn't want to split up families etc. - I support any kind of amnesty - but what the heck does it matter what I support. It doesn't even matter what laws are passed or not passed. The agenda is clear, to keep the border porous and allow job-seekers to flow into the US.

Hey, I went through h@ll to get my visa to work legally in Japan. I sure would be pissed if Japan let anyone and everyone come here and work without a visa, after I spent so much time and work to do it legally - and what advantages do I enjoy for all my efforts over those that accomplish the same thing illegally? I get to pay taxes. Sheesh.

My point is this - The laws don't always reflect the agenda. The execution of the laws usually do.
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bill
post Feb 17 2007, 02:04 PM
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Beached said
"the very jobs most Americans consider to be beneath themselves."


WRONG

It is not the jobs that American's refuse, it is slave wages that people cannot live on


If farm workers were paid a decent wage to havest crops the price of vegetables etc would go up by pennies

I for one will gladly pay more for food

Especially knowing that it was handled by someone that can afford to be healthy and not spread hepatitis, TB, and neurocysticercosis. (tapeworms in the brain)
http://washingtontimes.com/national/200702...11134-1360r.htm



You are spot on, Sanders
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Quest
post Feb 17 2007, 02:13 PM
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When I lived in Phoenix, not only did I find Mexicans to be some of the nicest people you could ever meet, but contrary to the popular stereotype, it is their diligence and willingness that landed them the poorly paid jobs - the very jobs most Americans consider to be beneath themselves.[QUOTE]

I don't think anyone here doubts that most Mexicans are decent people but it's not about that. It's about the business elites running this country absolutely refusing to pay an honest wage for non-skilled labor to US citizens and instead opening the flood-gates to people that are here illegally so that people that come from an even more corrupted government than our own - at least prior to 2000 - are exploited to the max therefore in affect undermining the loose agreement that gopvernment, business and US citizens should work together to determine wages. Furthermore, many of these illegals are put on a fast-track for US citizenship if they agree to join the military thereby providing cannon-fodder to an already proven illegal war on the Iraq and soon Iran.
http://www.immigrationforum.org/DesktopDef....aspx?tabid=233
http://www.notinourname.net/resources_link...oops-1sep03.htm

Illegal alien, green card solidiers apparently could care less about who they are killing or why they are killing them. 911 truth doesn't matter, it's all about the buck. They in affect are prolonging a war that never should have started in the 1st place. They are also killing people that are no different than themselves; poor, exploited and ignored by governments that were propped-up by the US (Fox and Hussein).

The North American union is what the elites want to drive down wages making it easier to control the masses, who cares about corrupt governments when you can't even feed your kids, and provide ample troops to kill even poorer people.

This is all just so pathetic.

This post has been edited by Quest: Feb 17 2007, 02:27 PM
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Sanders
post Feb 17 2007, 02:30 PM
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It really comes down to just business. Our quaint ideas about national borders, American ideals, humanity, a living wage, those mean nothing to a guy who owns 20% of 10 giant corporations and is being told by his bean counters that if he supports these and those initiatives he'll make more money.

Think about the workers' strikes of a century ago - what chance would those workers have had had they have been competing, not with just a few scab workers brought in from neighboring counties, but with the entire 3rd world?

If Americans really are OK with the idea of becoming part of a global work force, with no power, competing for wages with rural China, then open up the borders - Chinese peasants I'm sure are OK with the idea ... when US wages come down to the point that it makes more sense for US companies to keep factories open in Kentucky, then they will.

The whole "New World Order" thing is not, fundamentally, about some evil plot. It is about eliminating the walls between nations that prevent corporations from taking advantage of the world as a homogenous work force. Along with that will go the American middle-class, and we are already seeing it.
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Beached
post Feb 17 2007, 02:36 PM
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QUOTE
It is not the jobs that American's refuse, it is slave wages that people cannot live on


My point was because those jobs are synonymous with low pay, most Americans consider those jobs to be beneath themselves. The only reform is ensuring the enforcement of a minimum wage.

I apologize if anyone took my comment the wrong way, but I am so sick and tired of this call to tighten border security, that I got a little heated when I made my last post.
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Quest
post Feb 17 2007, 03:21 PM
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Beached,

No problem. No doubt it's a contentious issue that even most liberals (of which I am) don't understand the nuances. wink.gif
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Sanders
post Feb 17 2007, 03:30 PM
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No prob beached, there are so many sides to this - you mentioned you lived in Phoenix- I lived just down interstate 10 in Tucson - Arizona's beauty, particularly in the south IMO, is mostly due to the Mexican heritage there. The old adobe buildings and churches, well, I don't have to tell you.

Hey, if Americans are behind one solution or another, great. The problem is there is a hidden agenda, and that whatever law or initiative gets passed, the enforcement will reflect that other agenda and nothing will change - in fact, Mexico/US/Canada will continue to chug along toward a North American Union - irrespective of the wishes of Americans - because they no longer have a voice, they are not represented. I am not strongly against locking out Mexicans/strong trade barriers with Mexico, etc. Competition is not a bad thing. What gets my goat is the hypocrisy - that America is no longer a nation of laws - that it is a front for corporations - and the fact that this fact is invariably overlooked. It's like the elephant in the living room.

The funniest thing, I wish I had a copy of it, was a news piece with Bush talking about stronger border enforcement and the "fence" the US is building - and you could see the fence behing him, and while he's talking 3 or 4 Mexicans jumped it. tongue.gif Hahaha!
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Beached
post Feb 17 2007, 04:36 PM
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QUOTE (Sanders @ Feb 17 2007, 07:30 PM)
No prob beached, there are so many sides to this - you mentioned you lived in Phoenix- I lived just down interstate 10 in Tucson - Arizona's beauty, particularly in the south IMO, is mostly due to the Mexican heritage there.  The old adobe buildings and churches, well, I don't have to tell you.

Hey, if Americans are behind one solution or another, great. The problem is there is a hidden agenda, and that whatever law or initiative gets passed, the enforcement will reflect that other agenda and nothing will change - in fact, Mexico/US/Canada will continue to chug along toward a North American Union - irrespective of the wishes of Americans - because they no longer have a voice, they are not represented. I am not strongly against locking out Mexicans/strong trade barriers with Mexico, etc.  Competition is not a bad thing.  What gets my goat is the hypocrisy - that America is no longer a nation of laws - that it is a front for corporations - and the fact that this fact is invariably overlooked.  It's like the elephant in the living room. 

The funniest thing, I wish I had a copy of it, was a news piece with Bush talking about stronger border enforcement and the "fence" the US is building - and you could see the fence behing him, and while he's talking 3 or 4 Mexicans jumped it.  tongue.gif   Hahaha!

Wow… it is a small world! Tuscon was about a two hours drive from me. I lived right next to Scottsdale… better known as Snobsdale tongue.gif Quite a contrast to areas of Phoenix where you can drive along Van Buren and soon find that all of the store signs are written in Spanish! Actually there are parts which can be kinda scary! tongue.gif

The issue concerning the border patrol is always going to be a contentious one; sadly it's not going to be resolved easily. As you put it - They have an agenda, and therefore no reform will be implemented which doesn't somehow fit into their overall game plan. Catch 22.

I wish I saw the video of Bush you were talking about... I'm actually going to have a look online for it - Someone must have put that on YouTube! laugh.gif

This post has been edited by Beached: Feb 17 2007, 04:38 PM
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Beached
post Feb 17 2007, 04:41 PM
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I found it! It's a classic Bush moment! [laugh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bThIzwVvS3c
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Sanders
post Feb 17 2007, 05:55 PM
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laugh.gif


Even funnier than I remember [laugh]
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