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Global ... Warming? Cooling?

Sanders
post Feb 15 2008, 11:55 AM
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http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5jh0YAyf...BFLOewD8UQJTVG5

I'm in Japan - we had two snow storms here where I am recently ... Kanagawa hasn't had snow for a decade. What are we going to do about GLOBAL COOLING !???

It's COLD!!! - I'M FREAKING OUT, brrrrr !!!
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painter
post Feb 15 2008, 03:33 PM
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"It's Global Warming followed by a cooling trend." Dr. Jack Hall (Dennis Quaid) in "The Day After Tomorrow."
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lunk
post Feb 15 2008, 04:36 PM
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Every day the tide comes in and goes out twice.
Even though prominent scientists have been warning of
sea levels rising up to 2 meters in the next 20 years since the '70s
The highest tides on the West coast of North America,
have not gotten any higher then they ever have been during
the last 40 years! (from my own observations)

However the lowest tide ever, on record,
happened near the end of 2007.

I think we're going into another ice age,
if there is a major change underway.


imo, lunk
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Devilsadvocate
post Feb 15 2008, 04:53 PM
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"Global warming" is something of a misnomer-
"Major global screwup" would be probably more appropriate.
When I was about five or six (Mid-1960's), we used to live in a place called 'Brhl' not far from Cologne. There is a seventeen-century palace there, complete with a sculpted garden:

http://www.schlossbruehl.de/deu/augustusburg/

Note the fountains in that garden:

http://images.google.ie/imgres?imgurl=http...l%3Den%26sa%3DN

Back then, I remember my sister taking me up to those gardens one day:
Those fountains were frozen in midair !!!

Winters like that used to be relatively normal back then. For the last few years which I spend in Germany (early eighties), I can't even remember a winter with any significant snowfalls around Cologne.
Some people have speculated that Norway might become the new Cte d'Azur, complete with sandy beaches: Courtesy of global warming.
(Afraid not, though...)
What really happens is that the general mass of the earth's athmosphere is warming up: Just slightly- not even by much.
But it results in movement:
Hot air rises, cold air falls.
That movement also means that the established patterns become disturbed- areas which have experienced warm weather almost since time immemorial become colder, while cold areas become warmer. The icecaps are a good example for that.
My guess would be that we can expect higher windspeeds, flooding, general misery...
Or as the French would put it: "Merde- il pleut..."

This post has been edited by Devilsadvocate: Feb 15 2008, 04:58 PM
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lunk
post Feb 17 2008, 10:12 AM
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There is going to be even more cloud cover too.
Especially if we move from a hydro-carbon, to a
hydrogen based economy.

H+O+O=H2O

more cloud

Nothing of what they're saying makes any sense anymore.

imo, lunk

This post has been edited by lunk: Feb 17 2008, 10:13 AM
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Devilsadvocate
post Feb 17 2008, 02:48 PM
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...Well, they called Noah a nut, didn't they... laugh.gif

One thing I'm wondering about is this:
Any combustion-engine needs to be cooled, in order to keep it's temperature within certain confines.
It's made of different materials which have differing rates of expansion and contraction- so the temperatures must be kept within those confines in order to prevent the whole thing from seizing up.

Engines today are more effective than twenty, thirty years ago- but they still have to be cooled.
Pumps and fans need to be driven...
Did you know that somewhere between 25 and 30% of the energy contained in the fuel is actually needed just for that cooling-process ?
Then you get friction:
The friction between the moving parts of the engine, friction within the transmission, the brakes, wheelbearings, friction between the tyres and the roadsurface, airfriction...
All of this means that a certain percentage of the energy contained in the fuel is converted into waste-energy.
And this waste-energy is released into the athmosphere...

In other words, you might as well take between a quarter and a third of that gallon of fuel you put in the tank of your car, pour it on the road and set it alight.
That fuel ia a by-product of mother nature- or, to be precise, it's the waste-matter left behind by Mama nature's drive motor.
Sun energy reaches this planet; part of it is reflected back by the athmosphere, by the surface of the water covering part of the planet, and even by foliage.
The remainder is converted:
It becomes the driving force of the weather- in part.
The remainder is converted into life-energy: Plants and animals.
The plants and animals eventually die- and part of their remains turns into what we call fossil fuel.

We live in a world in which people adore waste:
Not enough that in a few thousand years, some hypothetical archaeologist may be left wondering why on earth 20th century man found it neccessary to preserve the crap produced by his infants (while slowly digging through the three-foot thick 'Pampers'-strata dating to that era with a trowel and a toothbrush).
During the nineteenth century, hundreds of thousands of Egyptian mummies (common people who had been buried in caves which were used as cemetaries for centuries) were exported for use as- wait for it- Locomotive-fuel !
Apparently, there had been periods in Egyptian history when the priests had used bitumen as the main agent in the mummification-process...
(Incidentally, they saw the contents of a tomb as the "possessions of death"- the waste-matter of someone else's life rolleyes.gif )

So, this society which adores the wastematter of life so much that it puts the stuff found in the wealthier tombs of ancient Egypt into glass-cases for people to gawk at, obviously just has to dig up Mama nature's waste-matter as well: Like little kids who play with their poo... doh1.gif

Unfortunately, this planet happens to be pretty much a closed system.
Burning fossil fuel effectively means that we are re-releasing solar energy into the environment in which we are still very much forced to live-
on top of the solar energy currently reaching this planet.

And then we wonder why on earth it would be that this process not only screws things up, but does so in a mere hundred-and-fifty-odd years...
It's not just the greenhouse-gases emitted by the burning of fossil fuels on a grand scale.
It's also the waste-energy produced by hundreds of millions of cars...plus aircraft, power-plants, industrial processes, domestice waste-energy...
How many billions of gallons of fuel worth of heat-energy ?
In that respect, hydrogen-engines would be merely a nice cosmetic touch.
They will still produce waste-energy...
Or as Plato ("Timaeus and Kritias") put it:
"O Solon, Solon- You Greeks are like children...!"
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lunk
post Feb 18 2008, 08:32 PM
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I think the jury is still out on hydro-carbons being a fossil byproduct. It is much more likely to be non-biological in origin. As for green house gases, Mt St Helens erupted in 1980 and gassed out
more, than humans have created through in the last 100 years of industrialization. This is also the point in the "hockey stick chart" where CO2 levels skyrocket. On top of this, almost every planet and moon in our solar system is showing signs of heating up. However we are going through a process of global dimming at the same time, possibly caused by pollution and particles suspended in our atmosphere.

imo, lunk
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