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Radar "injects", "sims" And "phantoms"

kawika
post Oct 24 2011, 10:03 PM
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For too long I have been hearing the story about SIMS being injected onto the ATC screens and absolutely confounding the controllers. I have suspected for some time that this was not true, so I went looking for the evidence.

I couldn't find any in the audios and transcripts. I asked several people who are familiar with this and got varying answers, but usually they could not separate the NEADS controller from the FAA when making their points.

I finally went to an ATC who was on duty on 9/11. I have confirmed this answer with others, who concur. (I am not revealing the names because I have not asked for permission to use them.)

Here is my query and the answer.

This issue keeps coming up. Can ATC see the NORAD war games injects? Can NORAD see the ATC civilian traffic?

It seems to me that ATC has enough to deal with. It would be counterproductive for them to have to work around phantoms or ghosts or SIMS.

I have listened to many tapes and read many transcripts. I have heard no references to being confused by SIMS. The one audio we are all familiar with, I am nearly certain, was a NEADS audio telling them turn the SIMS off. But now this story has infected the thinking of anyone who considers ATC activity. Am I way off base here?

I would really appreciate a tutorial or link to learn what the separation between NORAD and ATC looks like.

Thank you very much.


We don't see their SIM Targets. Even our training DYSIM lab is completely tied off of our HOST Computer so we can't even see our SIM Traffic that we use in training. When the military runs a SIM exercise we don't normally even know about them. On occasion when they want to run an exercise and if one or two of the aircraft can't make it, they cancel the exercise and run it as a SIM exercise instead.

NORAD or EADS controllers are MRU controllers and are not ATC certified. Giant Killer Controllers from the Navy are certified ATC controllers. The USAF has ATC controllers but they work at regular ATC facilities. Shaw AFB, others like that. There are some Air National Guard units as well that operate as MRU controllers. MRU is Mobile Radar Controller. Prior to 1998 they were allowed to due certain air traffic control functions like Hand-offs which they no longer can make. So they don't really separate planes. They do what is called a Transfer of Flight Information which is similar to a hand-off but not a true hand-off. We separate from most Military airspace by 3 NM and by 500 feet below Flight Level 290 and above FL290 we use 1,000 feet.


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Posts in this topic
- kawika   Radar "injects", "sims" And "phantoms"   Oct 24 2011, 10:03 PM
- - 23investigator   QUOTE (kawika @ Oct 25 2011, 11:33 AM) Fo...   Oct 25 2011, 04:33 AM
- - SanderO   The notion of insertion of simulated radar targets...   Oct 25 2011, 06:50 AM
|- - kawika   QUOTE (SanderO @ Oct 23 2011, 08:50 AM) I...   Oct 25 2011, 10:14 AM
- - Craig Ranke CIT   QUOTE (kawika @ Oct 25 2011, 03:03 AM) Fo...   Oct 25 2011, 10:47 AM
|- - kawika   QUOTE (Craig Ranke CIT @ Oct 23 2011, 12...   Oct 25 2011, 11:17 AM
- - Craig Ranke CIT   Right, well I was just trying to understand your l...   Oct 25 2011, 12:11 PM
|- - kawika   QUOTE (Craig Ranke CIT @ Oct 23 2011, 02...   Oct 25 2011, 01:02 PM
|- - woody   QUOTE (kawika @ Oct 25 2011, 05:02 PM) He...   Oct 28 2011, 09:45 AM
- - Craig Ranke CIT   Great thanks for that. Kane certainly is suggesti...   Oct 25 2011, 01:24 PM
- - amazed!   I have read Ruppert's book, so maybe that...   Oct 26 2011, 10:45 AM
- - amazed!   My opinion is that the inserts, assuming that they...   Oct 28 2011, 10:30 AM
|- - kawika   QUOTE (amazed! @ Oct 26 2011, 12:30 P...   Oct 28 2011, 11:52 AM
- - rob balsamo   I havent come across any evidence of radar "i...   Oct 28 2011, 12:31 PM
- - SanderO   I have no experience or knowledge of how the ATC s...   Oct 28 2011, 05:24 PM
- - amazed!   I think we are in general agreement on this. We k...   Oct 29 2011, 11:12 AM
|- - kawika   QUOTE (amazed! @ Oct 27 2011, 01:12 P...   Oct 29 2011, 12:23 PM
- - SanderO   There is woefully little fundamental research re 9...   Oct 29 2011, 03:11 PM
- - amazed!   I disagree SanderO--there has been very much resea...   Oct 30 2011, 12:02 PM
|- - kawika   QUOTE (amazed! @ Oct 28 2011, 02:02 P...   Oct 30 2011, 12:29 PM
|- - kawika   QUOTE (kawika @ Oct 28 2011, 02:29 PM) We...   Nov 26 2011, 04:57 PM
|- - bambooboy   Hi all a "simple" question or my 2 cents...   Jan 13 2012, 05:46 PM
|- - amazed!   QUOTE (bambooboy @ Jan 13 2012, 05:46 PM)...   Feb 7 2012, 05:05 PM
- - tumetuestumefaisdubien   I would suggest a practical test of the hypothesis...   Dec 4 2011, 06:53 PM
|- - Sergio   Fine to see you here again, tume.   Dec 4 2011, 08:04 PM
|- - bambooboy   Hi Tume on this thread http://pilotsfor911truth....   Jan 13 2012, 06:02 PM
- - SanderO   I have mentioned in the past that the data which a...   Feb 8 2012, 08:06 AM
- - amazed!   I think you have touched upon the heart of the mat...   Feb 8 2012, 10:43 AM
- - SanderO   If the "electronic" and digital data is ...   Feb 9 2012, 09:40 AM


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