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Pilots For 9/11 Truth Forum _ Pentagon _ What Hit The Pentagon? Nothing.

Posted by: ogrady May 7 2008, 06:20 PM

I just found this yesterday thanks to John Lear mentioning April Gallup's name in his video interview. This is the Guns and Butter broadcast with Dave von Kleist. April, an Army officer, tells of her first-hand experience on 911. There was an explosion and she crawled out through the hole onto the Pentagon lawn. Very interesting. Don't think we can discount this witness.

Listen at: http://www.kpfa.org/archives/index.php?arch=25953

Posted by: amazed! May 7 2008, 10:08 PM

Yep! whistle.gif

Posted by: SPreston May 7 2008, 10:53 PM

April Gallup verifys what we have proven and disproven.

PROVEN


DISPROVEN


PROVEN


IMPOSSIBLE


IMPOSSIBLE

Posted by: Omega892R09 May 8 2008, 11:13 AM

QUOTE (ogrady @ May 5 2008, 09:20 PM) *
I just found this yesterday thanks to John Lear mentioning April Gallup's name in his video interview. This is the Guns and Butter broadcast with Dave von Kleist. April, an Army officer, tells of her first-hand experience on 911. There was an explosion and she crawled out through the hole onto the Pentagon lawn. Very interesting. Don't think we can discount this witness.

Listen at: http://www.kpfa.org/archives/index.php?arch=25953

Hum! Now that's interesting.

Dietrich Snell was one of Gorelicks staffers according to:

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1506326/posts

which added to the implicit role of Zelikow throws yet more light through the colander that is the OCT and should be enough to have the 9/11 Commission Report reclassified officially as fiction. But the Ministry of Magic, aka the Department of Smoke and Mirrors or Department of Deception (DoD), would not like that.

The strange handling and death of Lynda Franklin also needs close scrutiny.

What did Linda know, I wonder and who else was sent a message with her shooting?

http://www.vmyths.com/column/1/2002/10/18/

There is a rotten smell hanging over the northern hemisphere.

Posted by: Bruce Sinclair May 8 2008, 03:32 PM

This audio tape is well worth the hour to listen to it. Highly recommended. Thanks for finding this!

Posted by: Aldo Marquis CIT May 8 2008, 04:09 PM

Our DVD has a video interview with her, including photos.

We should have it up on the net eventually.

Posted by: SPreston May 8 2008, 11:17 PM


QUOTE (Mother - Son Survive Together - Alone)
September 11, 2002
My son Elisha Zion Gallop is considered one of the youngest victims in history of a terrorist attack.

He was just two and a half months old on Sept. 11, and I was returning from maternity leave to my job as an administrative specialist with the U.S. Army. I was taking Elisha to register him at the Pentagon’s child care center.

We never made it to the day care center. My son was blown out of his stroller, covered under the debris that had caved in from the ceilings and walls. His injuries were to his head and his body, while his little lungs breathed in the toxins in the air. He was a perfectly healthy little boy, but now Elisha will be under medical observation until he is four or five years old. The doctors will not be able to determine if he suffered any impairment in his neurological development until he reaches this age.

I was injured along with my son—my hip, my head, as well as chronic migraines, backaches and spasms. But Elisha and I survived, and neither of us was severely burned. When I look into my son's eyes, I realize how grateful we both are to be alive. However, the pain of the memory is still fresh.

I was a single mother, working full time, carrying a full college load. I was picked up to work at the Pentagon because I had a top-secret clearance. Now, because of my injuries, I can’t get past a few pages reading a magazine or a book. My comprehension is not the same. I am about to be discharged from the military—from my job—because of my injuries. I will have to find a new path for my life, but what direction? I am working with a vocation rehabilitation specialist.

Because you cannot see my injuries, or those of my son, we are considered okay. We did not die; we were not burned, we fit into a category of victim that gets overlooked. When I apply for assistance, I have to submit the paper work over and over again, I have to call and call. Because I am in the military, it seemed I was just expected to pop back to normal, whatever that is defined as. Because my injuries were not severe, I was told I "should have been able to suck it up and drive on."

Just because there is no category for us, it doesn't mean we are less of victims. Please know, I strongly believe those who lost loved ones and were burned should receive all the support that is available. However, I don't believe or support the way victims are placed in categories. The people who think victims like my son and I don’t deserve to be compensated add to our pain. I am very happy to be alive, and very thankful for the life of my son. I just don't agree with how we have been treated in some instances.

We live with our disabilities every day. I never thought I would spend so much time in a hospital. Our regular visits with our array of counselors, doctors and therapists are a constant reminder of that day, keeping the memory alive.

Did we die? Obviously, no. Are we affected? Traumatically, yes. But I promised myself when I realized what had happened that day, that I would live my life as productive as possible so the deaths would not be in vain. So, I focus on recovery for many reasons. I push on for my son. What a transition! A new path? On this new road, I tell myself that I will ensure that both my son and I will use our lives to bring honor to those who died. I hope for the positive: a new lease on life; the ability to reprioritize; the ability to recover; the ability to heal.

April Gallop was an administrative specialist with the U.S. Army working at the Pentagon at the time of the Sept. 11, 2001 terrorist attacks.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,62656,00.html
QUOTE (April Gallop Administrative Specialist U.S. Army and Elisha Gallop)
Pentagon survivors. April suffered major injuries in the attack on the Pentagon, resulting in partial disability and medical discharge from the Army. Two-month old Elisha suffered head injuries causing hearing loss and developmental delays.
Endorsement of the PentaCon documentary: "Well after I reviewed the footage and carefully looked at the information I think it should be considered as credible for public viewing and also very important for people to look at because it shows that there is obviously some fabrication in the official testimony. And I think that everyone should sit down and take a look at it." http://thepentacon.com/

Interview 7/14/06: Interviewer: Do you have any theory about how a Boeing 757 could have hit such a secure building without any anti-aircraft defenses being activated or any warning alarms sounded?

Gallop: I have thought about this very question numerous times. And then I realized I needed to rephrase the question. The real question is what is the probability or likelihood that no anti-aircraft defense, warning alarms or additional security mechanism functioned on that particular day?

And then we need to think how likely is it then there was a glitch in all the security mechanisms, anti-aircraft defense and warning alarms?

You know, it takes a while to get around that building. And I remember being so disgusted at the frequency of random drill exercises taking place for us to evacuate the building. It seemed as if they always happened when I had to take care of certain things.

Yet on September 11th, the day when our lives were threatened, not one alarm. ...

Interviewer: I know that you have previously been quoted about things like thinking that a bomb had exploded in the Pentagon, and that you did not see any plane debris in the Pentagon. I do not want to misquote you or twist your words. Is there anything you wish to state about these topics?

Gallop: I have been misquoted on numerous occasions. That happens when individuals have ulterior motives. But here is my statement for the record.

I was located at the E ring. From my inside perspective, with no knowledge of what had actually happened on the outside, it did sound like a bomb. And we had to escape the building before the floors, debris etc collapsed on us.

And I don't recall at any time seeing any plane debris. Again, I don't know what plane debris would look like after hitting a building. But I would have recalled unusual looking pieces similar to plane parts.

... I was focusing on getting help and getting out. With that in mind, the images are etched in my mind. When I review the pictures regarding the Boeing, in my opinion, the hole didn't appear to be big enough for the 757. I don't know the scientific theory that was created to justify it being a hole created by a 757. What we need to consider is how did the plane go thru the building with all that heat and not burn us (those on the inside) to a crisp? We need to consider, how did the plane break up so to the point it created a perfectly round hole considering the rate of impact?

I didn't know it was a plane until I was informed at the hospital. If I wasn't informed I would have never believed it. I walked through that place to try to get out before everything collapsed on us . . . surely we should have seen something." http://www.lookingglassnews.org
http://www.patriotsquestion911.com/survivors.html

Posted by: KP50 May 8 2008, 11:22 PM

QUOTE (Omega892R09 @ May 9 2008, 03:13 AM) *
The strange handling and death of Lynda Franklin also needs close scrutiny.

What did Linda know, I wonder and who else was sent a message with her shooting?

This is from the occasionally useful Wikipedia

QUOTE
On October 14, at 9:15 pm, 47-year-old Linda Franklin, an FBI intelligence analyst who was a resident of Arlington County, Virginia, was shot dead after she finished shopping at a Home Depot in Fairfax County, Virginia, just outside Falls Church. The police received what seemed to be a very good lead after the October 14 shooting, but it was later determined that the witness was inside the Home Depot at the time and was lying. The witness was subsequently arrested for interfering with the investigation.


I am wondering whether the witness saw something they shouldn't have seen .....

Posted by: SPreston May 8 2008, 11:33 PM

Linda Franklin was allegedly one of the victims of the Beltway Snipers on October 14 2002.

QUOTE
October 14: FBI analyst Linda Franklin killed near Falls Church, Virginia
QUOTE
A BYTE OUT OF HISTORY
The Beltway Snipers, Part 1
10/22/07

This blue 1990 Chevy Caprice was used as a rolling sniper's nest.

Five years ago this week—at 3:19 in the morning on October 24, 2002, to be exact—we closed in on the snipers who’d been terrorizing the Washington, D.C., area over the course of 23 long days.

During the month, 10 people had been randomly gunned down and three critically injured while going about their everyday lives—mowing the lawn, pumping gas, shopping, reading a book. Among the victims was one of our own—FBI intelligence analyst Linda Franklin, who was felled by a single bullet while leaving a home improvement store in Virginia with her husband.

The massive investigation into the sniper attacks was led by the Montgomery County (Maryland) Police Department, headed by Chief Charles Moose, with the FBI and many other law enforcement agencies playing a supporting role. Chief Moose had specifically requested our help through a federal law on serial killings.

That morning, the hunt for the snipers quickly came to an end, when a team of Maryland State Police, Montgomery County SWAT officers, and agents from our Hostage Rescue Team arrested the sleeping John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo without a struggle.
http://www.fbi.gov/page2/oct07/snipers102207.html

Posted by: KP50 May 8 2008, 11:41 PM

Following the threads of the radio prog and Barbara Honegger's "The Pentagon Attack Papers" at http://physics911.net/pdf/honegger.pdf.

QUOTE
I interviewed the famous “lone taxi driver” whose cab is the only car visible still parked on I-395 above the Pentagon lawn looking down at the west face after the other cars have left the freeway. This taxi can be seen in overhead photos taken on the morning of 9/11 and viewable on the Internet. The driver said his was the last car allowed onto that section of I-395 before police put up a barricade and that he decided not to immediately leave the scene like the others “because I realized this was history and I wanted to see for myself.” He stated that he saw no evidence of a plane having impacted the building nor any visible plane pieces on the lawn at the time he arrived, which was after the first violent event in the building, as black smoke was streaming up and to the right from inside-the-building fires. The taxi cab driver drew a diagram of what he saw that morning while overlooking the Pentagon’s west face from I-395.

Does this make any sense at all to anyone?

Posted by: SPreston May 8 2008, 11:52 PM

QUOTE (KP50 @ May 8 2008, 11:41 PM) *
Following the threads of the radio prog and Barbara Honegger's "The Pentagon Attack Papers" at http://physics911.net/pdf/honegger.pdf.
QUOTE
I interviewed the famous “lone taxi driver” whose cab is the only car visible still parked on I-395 above the Pentagon lawn looking down at the west face after the other cars have left the freeway. This taxi can be seen in overhead photos taken on the morning of 9/11 and viewable on the Internet. The driver said his was the last car allowed onto that section of I-395 before police put up a barricade and that he decided not to immediately leave the scene like the others “because I realized this was history and I wanted to see for myself.” He stated that he saw no evidence of a plane having impacted the building nor any visible plane pieces on the lawn at the time he arrived, which was after the first violent event in the building, as black smoke was streaming up and to the right from inside-the-building fires. The taxi cab driver drew a diagram of what he saw that morning while overlooking the Pentagon’s west face from I-395.

Does this make any sense at all to anyone?

She apparently is referring to Lloyd England and mis-identified Hwy 27 as I-395.

Posted by: KP50 May 9 2008, 12:05 AM

QUOTE (SPreston @ May 9 2008, 03:52 PM) *
She apparently is referring to Lloyd England and mis-identified Hwy 27 as I-395.


Yes that's what I thought - so what happened to the small matter of the lightpole through the window?

Posted by: KP50 May 9 2008, 12:28 AM

QUOTE (KP50 @ May 9 2008, 03:22 PM) *
I am wondering whether the witness saw something they shouldn't have seen .....

Just to square the circle .... taken from http://www.jfkmontreal.com/sniper.htm

QUOTE
CNN, Friday, October 18, 2002 Posted: 6:38 PM EDT (2238 GMT)

http://www.cnn.com/2002/US/South/10/18/sniper.shootings/index.html

Matthew M. Dowdy, seen here in his mug shot, is charged with making a false statement to police.

ROCKVILLE, Maryland (CNN) -- The person who claimed to have seen a man with a gun just before the latest Washington area sniper shooting has been arrested and charged with giving false information, authorities said.

The would-be witness was identified as Matthew M. Dowdy, 37, of Falls Church, Virginia, according to Fairfax County Police Officer Sophia Grinnan. He is an ex-convict and goes by the nickname "Slim," she said.

Dowdy originally was thought to be a key witness in the shooting of 47-year-old Linda Franklin outside the Home Depot store in Falls Church Monday.

He's been charged with one count of knowingly and willfully making a false statement to an officer who was in the course of investigating a crime by another, a Class 2 misdemeanor, Grinnan said.

Dowdy is in police custody and faces up to six months in prison if he's convicted on that charge.

Montgomery County, Maryland, Executive Doug Duncan -- whose county police department is spearheading the multi-jurisdictional sniper task force because the killings began there -- said he was pleased with the arrest.

"This is a serious matter, lives are at stake. We cannot have people misleading police and wasting our time," he said.

Nine people have been killed and two others wounded since October 2 in Maryland, Virginia and the District of Columbia.

After Monday's shooting, Dowdy told police he saw the gunman shoulder a weapon just before the shooting and then saw the shooter flee in a cream-colored van with the left taillight burned out.

That description was broadcast to law enforcement across the region and led to the shutdown of most major thoroughfares around the nation's capital as authorities searched for the van. After questioning Dowdy further, they determined the van did not exist.

Authorities in the past two days were optimistic that Dowdy's information would help crack the case because there have been few witnesses to the previous sniper shootings.

With Monday's key witness discredited, authorities said the following details reported on the Home Depot shooting are no longer valid:

  • That the sniper was only 30 yards away when the shot was fired
  • That the sniper is a male with olive skin color
  • That a cream-colored van was used in the escape
  • That the sniper used an AK-74 rifle, stepped out of a van, put the gun to his shoulder and then fired

Posted by: Omega892R09 May 9 2008, 11:30 AM

QUOTE (KP50 @ May 7 2008, 02:41 AM) *
Following the threads of the radio prog and Barbara Honegger's "The Pentagon Attack Papers" at http://physics911.net/pdf/honegger.pdf.

I noticed another mistake in this paper, but it is only one of detail on the penultimate page, the last page of narrative:

QUOTE
Another key suspect is Air Force General William Hayden, now Director of the CIA and then head of the National Security Agency (NSA), which tapped the calls of lead hijacker Mohamed Atta and 9/11 “mastermind” Khalid Sheikh Mohammed the day before 9/11, and surely on many other occasions before 9/11 as well—all almost certainly without FISA warrants as required by law. These pre-9/11 warrant-less NSA taps put the lie to President Bush’s claim that he initiated the program of warrant-less NSA taps of al Qaeda suspects because of—and thus only after—9/11.

That should read General Michael G Hayden I think, yes the one of my sig', he sure as hell should be put alongside the likes of Cheney, Rumsfeld, Zelikow and Rice in prison, separate prisons preferably with no interchange between attorneys, awaiting a full and proper enquiry. Look how the Gallops have suffered, as examples of the wider suffering that these jerks have caused.

Where was M G Hayden and what he was doing at the time of the Liberty incident? I wonder. Has he ever been in the firing line himself? After all he has enough medal ribbons on his chest.

Posted by: SPreston May 9 2008, 12:47 PM

QUOTE (KP50 @ May 9 2008, 12:05 AM) *
Yes that's what I thought - so what happened to the small matter of the lightpole through the window?

Perhaps Mr Lloyd England was in control of his own mind on that day and did not tell Barbara Honegger about any traumatic events which were not recorded in multiple places in his brain. We all know there was never a lightpole through a taxi windshield. Perhaps there are times when Lloyd also remembers it so.

The Non-Event

Posted by: heliweli May 9 2008, 06:20 PM

Dave McGowan is writing a book (or has written) about serial killers and conspiracies. When I read about Lynda Franklin, I immediately thought of him. Do they kill 10 or so innocent people to disguise an asassination?

Posted by: JackD May 12 2008, 02:46 PM

QUOTE (heliweli @ May 7 2008, 09:20 PM) *
Dave McGowan is writing a book (or has written) about serial killers and conspiracies. When I read about Lynda Franklin, I immediately thought of him. Do they kill 10 or so innocent people to disguise an asassination?


a time-honored way to disguise an assasination is to hide it in a seemingly unrelated tragedy...a crash of a commercial jet... a serial killer with other victims..... a freak carjacking gone wrong... sinking of a ship...

thus the death of the intended mark seems to be an anomaly, a freak occurrence, a coincidence...

Posted by: dMole May 12 2008, 06:44 PM

QUOTE (heliweli @ May 9 2008, 04:20 PM) *
Dave McGowan is writing a book (or has written) about serial killers and conspiracies. When I read about Lynda Franklin, I immediately thought of him. Do they kill 10 or so innocent people to disguise an asassination?


That excellent book is Programmed to Kill: The Politics of Serial Murder, by Dave McGowan. It avoids the JFK/RFK thing because they have been "done to death" elsewhere. It is a very dark book though- something to keep in mind.

It has a pretty thorough section on Henry Lee Lucas and the Matamoros "death cult" near Brownsville, TX. Interestingly, Mr. Lucas was the only person ever pardoned by Dubya while governor of TX. Hmmm...

EDIT: make that "commuted" or spared from death row, not "pardoned" above. Still hmmm....

Posted by: ogrady May 13 2008, 07:52 PM

I've been thinking. I saw a website (unfortunately, can't remember the name or location at the moment - I'll have to search) which showed how the holes created in the Pentagon's rings were identical to charges used by the military to make holes in buildings through which they could launch attacks. (I'll get back on this when I find it.)

I now really believe that nothing hit the Pentagon. There was an explosion/bomb. This makes Norman Minetta's testimony ("the plane is 10 miles out, do the orders still stand....."blah, blah) a blatant piece of disinfo. No wonder he looked so nervous. Also, the much viewed 5 frames of video, meant to suggest (no doubt) a missile, and the many 'accidental' missile mistakes (most notably, Rumsfeld's) that we viewed in the press. More disinfo to distract us.

If April is correct, the frame of an object entering the field of vision must have been a CGI. What do you think?

Posted by: ogrady May 13 2008, 08:00 PM

Found this explanation of shaped cutting charges here at Rense http://www.rense.com/general70/hole.htm

This is essentially the same information as the website I referred to in the above post. Do shaped charges sound familiar to anyone?

Posted by: dMole May 14 2008, 03:09 AM

QUOTE (ogrady @ May 13 2008, 05:52 PM) *
This makes Norman Minetta's testimony ("the plane is 10 miles out, do the orders still stand....."blah, blah) a blatant piece of disinfo. No wonder he looked so nervous.
.... What do you think?

Hi ogrady,

IMO the plane(s) could well have been 50, 30, 10 miles out on FAA and/or USAF radar and still flown over, or altered course to miss the wall, or have been spoofed "blips", or ?? I'm not ready to call disinfo on Norman Mineta's testimony just yet (was that under oath for a Congressional Committee?). He might have looked nervous because he knew it was "career suicide" to say so [or maybe he feared a Chenian DC "suicide" like recently made news whistle.gif ].

Posted by: SPreston May 14 2008, 12:54 PM

QUOTE (ogrady)
I've been thinking. I saw a website (unfortunately, can't remember the name or location at the moment - I'll have to search) which showed how the holes created in the Pentagon's rings were identical to charges used by the military to make holes in buildings through which they could launch attacks. (I'll get back on this when I find it.)

I now really believe that nothing hit the Pentagon. There was an explosion/bomb. This makes Norman Minetta's testimony ("the plane is 10 miles out, do the orders still stand....."blah, blah) a blatant piece of disinfo. No wonder he looked so nervous. Also, the much viewed 5 frames of video, meant to suggest (no doubt) a missile, and the many 'accidental' missile mistakes (most notably, Rumsfeld's) that we viewed in the press. More disinfo to distract us.

If April is correct, the frame of an object entering the field of vision must have been a CGI. What do you think?

We did a thread on the Military Rapid Wall Breaching Kit based on some pretty good research by Russell Pickering over at LC forum http://s1.zetaboards.com/LooseChangeForums/topic/77034/1/.



http://www.pentagonresearch.com/091.html

Hole breach is centered between columns - Bricks are blown to right of alleged aircraft angle of flight path


The No Parking sign survived the impact of a fuselage nose cone or landing gear or jet engine allegedly impacting the
entire interior wall, while a Rapid Wall Breaching Kit would only exert force on the portion of the wall targeted leaving
the No Parking sign un-touched

Posted by: dMole May 14 2008, 04:20 PM

QUOTE (SPreston @ May 14 2008, 10:54 AM) *
Hole breach is centered between columns - Bricks are blown to right of alleged aircraft angle of flight path

Exactly. As an aside, an HE warhead denonation could also cause the bricks to migrate outside the wall. Hydrostatic shock "waves" in terminal ballistics are a notable exception in fluid-filled objects (I've got a really cool picture of a rifle bullet "exploding" an apple that is inconsistent with the above).
QUOTE
The No Parking sign survived the impact of a fuselage nose cone or landing gear or jet engine allegedly impacting the entire interior wall, while a Rapid Wall Breaching Kit would only exert force on the portion of the wall targeted leaving the No Parking sign un-touched.

Again, exactly as any "good little" [focused blast wave] shaped charge would be expected to do.

Why again haven't we seen any photos of the "holes" in 3 of 4 brick walls that should be in the outer two rings in order to reach the wall shown in SPreston's excellent photos above??

EDIT: In the photo with the "respirator guy" note the broken windows on the floor above. SPreston, have you got a high-res version of this one handy? The upper panes are broken only on the upper left of 3 second story windows visible. Going off memory [Please DO NOT quote me here as my references are elsewhere, and I'm not certain I should list them anyway in the interests of public safety- I can actually understand a "need to know" when it comes to HE], high explosive pressure waves decrease approximately with 1/distance^3. To me this indicates an overpressure detonation "wave" that was higher pressure near the 2nd story floor than near the 2nd story ceiling, especially above/left of the "impact" hole. In laymans terms: based on the observed damage in these photos above, IMHO an explosive device or devices was/were inside the First Floor C-ring, with blast center a little left of the hole's center, but stairwells, furniture placement, or floor "venting" could explain some of this "offset."

Of course I'm not Gene Corley, FEMA, or ASCE (strangely, they were at WTC, the Pentagon, and OKC, you know).

Posted by: SPreston May 15 2008, 12:43 AM

QUOTE (dMole)
EDIT: In the photo with the "respirator guy" note the broken windows on the floor above. SPreston, have you got a high-res version of this one handy?



No, sorry I do not. However this photo might be of some help http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/AEDrive1.jpeg or this photo http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/AEDrive2.jpeg or http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/16.jpg or http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/17.jpg

Posted by: dMole May 15 2008, 04:57 AM

Thank you immensely SPreston, and I found what I was looking for there- unfortunately-- I've "smoked" too many guns today for my comfort...

HINTS: AEDrive1.jpeg, AEDrive2.jpeg

Does anyone have labeled versions of the above [or similar] photos? [C ring-inner, C ring-outer, B-ring inner, etc.]

Those MSM/DC dogs just don' hunt...

Posted by: SPreston May 15 2008, 11:08 AM

QUOTE (dMole @ May 15 2008, 04:57 AM) *
Thank you immensely SPreston, and I found what I was looking for there- unfortunately-- I've "smoked" too many guns today for my comfort...

HINTS: AEDrive1.jpeg, AEDrive2.jpeg

Does anyone have labeled versions of the above [or similar] photos? [C ring-inner, C ring-outer, B-ring inner, etc.]

Those MSM/DC dogs just don' hunt...









Sorry to get a little off subject, but exactly how could the DNA of this alleged Flight 77 passenger officially get into the open area between D-Ring and C-Ring on the 3rd floor? In the photo below, there appears to be no breach in the 3rd floor and no visible damage of any sort in that area. The windows appear unbroken. ( http://www.defenselink.mil/DODCMSShare/NewsPhoto/2001-09/010914-F-8006R-004.jpg and http://www.defenselink.mil/DODCMSShare/NewsPhoto/2001-09/010914-F-8006R-002.jpg and http://www.defenselink.mil/DODCMSShare/NewsPhoto/2001-09/010914-F-8006R-005.jpg ) There is a short length of a white something near that location. How would her DNA survive the alleged firestorm and claimed fuel/air explosions inside the 1st floor and somehow move through two solid concrete floors to arrive on the 3rd floor in this open area? Proof of faked DNA sampling?

Don't forget that her DNA would have been originally as alleged, inside the sealed fuselage of an aircraft, with no massive objects inside the fuselage with her to carry DNA tissue through to the A&E Drive nor to the 3rd floor. The massive engines would have been out on the wings and the massive landing gear would have been below the fuselage and below the alleged passengers. The fuel would be below the fuselage and inside the wings, if one was foolish enough to believe that an aircraft actually hit the Pentagon.



Posted by: dMole May 15 2008, 05:24 PM

I went looking for a Pentagon map in the pinned sections and didn't find it.

http://www.hqda.army.mil/aoguide/Pentagon_Map.htm

PDF [with strange "anti-North" rotation]
http://www.dtic.mil/ref/html/Welcome/PDFs/Pent.pdf

Pentagon dimension info [height 77 ft 3.5 in/24m, wall length 921 ft/281m]:
http://renovation.pentagon.mil/history-features.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pentagon

These links above probably should be pinned somewhere close for reference.
-----
SPreston's photos and DNA question above set me to thinking.

OK, it's too late to edit my earlier post, but the 3 of 4 walls that I was referring to are in the D and E (outermost two) rings, with "OPEN AREAS" that I'll call "Open Area CD" and "Open Area DE" in the "flight" path as I understand the Pentagon map(s).

I'll predict that the "debunkers" will claim that AA77 flew through these "OPEN AREAS" and that's why you don't find evidence of holes in D-inner, D-outer, and [pre-collapse] E-inner walls. If you search carefully, you can find a pre-collapse picture of that [16 ft?] hole in the [lower 2? floors of the] E-outer (Western perimeter) wall. It might be time to get a scale analysis of those Pentagon window sizes soon.

Problem for "debunkers": those are load bearing brick walls- just because you don't see the brick walls in the roofed-over? 2 story "open areas" in the photos above does NOT mean that there were not brick walls there. What else would hold up the 3rd, 4th, and 5th floor brick walls that we can see as rows of windows in SPreston's [more recent excellent] photos.

Now is that C-outer? hole right of the No Parking sign bigger or smaller than the pre-collapse E-outer hole? Why didn't the D-ring or the "open areas" collapse if the D-ring had 2 "punch holes" similar to those in the collapsed E-ring? I don't have [non-speculative] answers here, but neither does the OCT. The C-ring is a poor location to take the "hole evidence" photo IMHO. The DoD/US Navy captured a little more in those "evidence" photos than they intended, I believe...

I do not believe that a wall breaching charge was the only thing used in the C and E ring damage/destruction, based upon the photos above. Knowing how brick/mortar buildings react to "seismic" events is also helpful while looking at the broken windows in the C-ring photo.

I'm pretty new to the Pentagon investigations- who is our resident researcher on Pentagon "bomb" eyewitnesses, and how many of them are there?

On the white object seen in "Open Area CD" in SPreston's DNA question that looks to be about "window"-length- I'll guess it is a piece of roof "flashing" (commonly either galvanized steel or aluminum) glinting in the sun, and that it was loosened by whatever caused the E-ring collapse. Maybe not.

Good work men. [And women of P4911T too- it's an old inside joke- no sexism intended]

Posted by: SPreston May 16 2008, 01:16 AM

1st and 2nd floors open with columns supporting overhead floor slab


As I understand the building structure, there are no walls in the 1st story area between the alleged entry hole in E-Ring outer and alleged Exit Hole in C-Ring inner. There are only columns supporting the floor slab of the story above. As you can see in the photo, there are five stories in the A&E drive ( C-B ) and only three stories in the openings ( D-C and E-D ). There is a concrete floor slab between the 1st and 2nd stories and the 2nd and 3rd stories. In the opening where that shiny piece of roof flashing is laying and allegedly the DNA of Norma Lang Steuerle was found, that is the 3rd story floor slab. In the diagram above, the 2nd story floor slab was displaced in one area by an explosion. I have not read anywhere that the 3rd story floor slab was displaced or penetrated. So how did her DNA get on top of the 3rd story floor slab since it was supposedly sealed inside the fuselage as it burrowed through the alleged entry hole at 535 mph? Most of the passenger DNA was allegedly found out near the A&E Drive Exit Hole in the 1st floor area. So apparently the sealed fuselage containing the passenger bodies allegedly made it inside the 1st floor area. Of course since the aircraft has been proven above the Navy Annex, there is no chance of the aircraft returning to the official flight path and entering the Pentagon along the official damage path.

The circle contained most of the passenger remains, which indicates the fuselage allegedly made it to C-ring — intact!


Alleged DNA locations



Posted by: dMole May 16 2008, 02:02 AM

Thank you for the "Open Area" correction SPreston,

Have you got any specifics on these "Open Area" support columns then [dimensions, materials, spacing, etc.]? I've looked closer at the Towers [as they were pretty damned impressive engineering in their own right and there was much more "evidence" on WTC2] and the aircraft.

Thanks all for being parts of a great team. It is a both a challenge and a pleasure to be among such fine individuals.

d

Posted by: SPreston May 16 2008, 03:07 AM

QUOTE (dMole @ May 16 2008, 02:02 AM) *
Thank you for the "Open Area" correction SPreston,

Have you got any specifics on these "Open Area" support columns then [dimensions, materials, spacing, etc.]? I've looked closer at the Towers [as they were pretty damned impressive engineering in their own right and there was much more "evidence" on WTC2] and the aircraft.

Thanks all for being parts of a great team. It is a both a challenge and a pleasure to be among such fine individuals.

d

You are quite welcome d. No I do not, but I will include a few links below which might help. We enjoy and appreciate your fine input also.
SP

I did find this, but the accuracy may be incorrect.
QUOTE
Relevant dimensions of Pentagon (Infoplease, 2003)

height of building: 23.6 m (77′ 3″)
inter-window distance: 3.1 m (10′ 2″) (derived)
inter-column distance: 3.1 m (10′ 2″) (derived)

This is an official diagram of the 1st floor from the Pentagon book. http://911files.info/77/pentagon_911_book/first_floor_areas.jpg
1st floor Pentagon diagram http://911files.info/77/pentagon_911_book/first_floor_plan.jpg



Pentagon book photos http://911files.info/77/pentagon_911_book/

http://www.kolumbus.fi/sy-k/pentagon/asce_en.htm

http://www.fire.nist.gov/bfrlpubs/build03/PDF/b03017.pdf pages 5-9

Posted by: Ricochet May 16 2008, 03:23 AM

http://www.pentagonresearch.com/062.html

Posted by: dMole May 16 2008, 04:16 AM

Thanks Rico and SP.

One not-so important question- WHY_TF? are so many Pentagon maps and diagrams oriented with North anywhere but "up?" I don't think that the magnetic declination is anywhere near 70-130 degrees clockwise in DC... I know it is one politically-screwed-up place but jeebus... rolleyes.gif

We really need to gather all these "Pentagram" reference links together somewhere really close and pin that bad boy, no? [or did I miss it?]

EDIT: SP- my other links above gave a height of 77 feet 3.5 inches so your source at 77' 3" height is probably "close enough" on those windows. thumbsup.gif

EDIT2: References collected at:
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?showtopic=13365

Posted by: dMole Aug 17 2008, 11:51 PM

Watch from about 05:45-06:00 onward in this Mythbusters video clip. This is purportedly a shaped C4 (mainly RDX) charge breaching a cinder block wall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_XdOmShVhI

Does that bright orange HE blast look familiar to anyone?



EDIT: A C4 shaped charge applied to 1.5" steel plate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LudNqf56AFo

More on C4 (~91% RDX)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-4_(explosive)

http://science.howstuffworks.com/c-4.htm/printable

Posted by: Omega892R09 Aug 18 2008, 07:23 AM

QUOTE (dMole @ Aug 16 2008, 01:51 AM) *
EDIT: A C4 shaped charge applied to 1.5" steel plate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LudNqf56AFo

This is something I, and many around here, have appreciated for some time.

It is my firm belief that there were numerous shaped charges deployed that day the shapes of which could have been rather more complex than a pipe with a copper cone inserted.

It would be easy to deploy such devices under cover of building maintenance and upgrades with those whose places of work these building were being totally oblivious to the true nature of the work. Thus months, even years, of preparation could be clandestinely carried out. This destroys one of the BIG arguments of those who support the OCT.

Another fact that counters much OCT preacher BS is that the explosive used is 'insensitive to impact' so you could hit a building prep'd with this stuff with a truck, or an aircraft, and it will not detonate until programmed to do so.

Note that a very small charge of P4/C4 used in this way could cut through about 6 inches of steel.

Posted by: dMole Sep 20 2008, 09:50 AM

I was just recovering some spreadsheet results from a computer crash and noticed something on the Auxiliary Power Unit that would be related to any alleged "data gaps" in the SSFDR.

At 09:37:44 EDT, the APU BATT showed 27.6 VDC, with APU BATT ranging from [27.5-27.6 VDC] for the entire flight, with an average voltage of 27.57470 V with SD=0.04349 VDC.

Also the APU Load ranged from 1.8 to 2% for the entire flight.

These numbers were all from the "AA77_tabular.csv" file decoded from the "raw" file provided by NTSB (see pinned threads in AA77 and Pentagon sections for more information here).
------
The largest accelerometer values that I found so far were at 09:37:42.375 [extrapolated assuming 8 Hz vertical acceleration sampling rate], where a_lon = 0.177 g, a_vert = 1.753 g, and a_lat = -0.081 g

Posted by: dMole Sep 26 2008, 01:49 PM

QUOTE (dMole @ May 14 2008, 02:20 PM) *
Exactly. If this were a "penetration impact" caused by a hypothetical radome [ or nosecone, unless it was a military craft] , or a nose wheel, or [apparently a single-WTF?] turbofan core, or what have you, shouldn't the bricks be INSIDE the C-ring? Watch your local news for one of those "car hits house" bits and look at the debris field (it's called the Law of Conservation of Momentum if anyone is interested). As an aside, an HE warhead detonation could also cause the bricks to migrate outside the wall.

...
Of course I'm not Gene Corley, FEMA, or ASCE (strangely, they were at WTC, the Pentagon, and OKC, you know).

Courtesy of one of the "prominent" Randiite "debunkers:"

http://img292.imageshack.us/my.php?image=carbrickwallnz4.jpghttp://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php

http://img152.imageshack.us/my.php?image=carbrickwall2oq0.jpghttp://g.imageshack.us/thpix.php

Also, I recently read that Gene Corley was part of the Waco, TX FBI/BATF/Delta Force Davidian "cleanup." [cough * cough * Corley's resume * cough]

http://www.ctlgroup.com/files/dynamic_resumes/Corley%20NARRES%200131.pdf

Posted by: Omega892R09 Sep 26 2008, 04:37 PM

QUOTE (dMole @ Sep 24 2008, 03:49 PM) *
Also, I recently read that Gene Corley was part of the Waco, TX FBI/BATF/Delta Force Davidian "cleanup." [cough * cough * Corley's resume * cough]

And lest we forget, Corley was also involved in the Murrah building cover up:

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/W.-Gene-Corley

Posted by: dMole Oct 31 2008, 02:20 AM

Would anyone like to post wall-LABELED, directional photos for the Pentagon, this many years later?

EDIT: Here are some Pentagon "damage path" resources:

http://www.kolumbus.fi/sy-k/pentagon/asce_en.htm

DoD Press Release
http://cryptome.sabotage.org/dod091501.htm

Official DoD website with photos and PowerPoint presentation:

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/briefingslide.aspx?briefingslideid=129

http://www.defenselink.mil/dodcmsshare/briefingslide%5C129%5C020307-D-6570C-003.jpg.JPG


http://www.defenselink.mil/dodcmsshare/briefingslide%5C129%5C020307-D-6570C-008.jpg.JPG


Fairly good diagram from Washington Post
http://911review.com/attack/pentagon/imgs/pentagon_navy_command.gif


Posted by: madtruth Jan 14 2009, 12:57 PM

This recent article caught my eye, because this eyewitness is one of the Israeli art student spy's



http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_4210.shtml



Mossad’s modus operandi exposed -- from art students to kiosk operators

By Wayne Madsen
Online Journal Contributing Writer


Jan 8, 2009, 00:24




(WMR) -- On December 19, 2008, WMR reported on the 9/11-related activities of an Israeli “art student” in the United States. The art students were suspected by federal law enforcement and U.S. intelligence agencies of being Israeli spies.

WMR reported that a ”female Israeli ‘art student’ who lived on an Israeli kibbutz for a year and who is also a British national, told our source in London that in the weeks prior to 9/11 she was ‘selling art in Washington [DC]. Before her arrival in Washington, the Israeli art student said she was in the San Francisco Bay Area attending college as an “art student” but denied selling any art while in the Bay Area. She also said she spent some time in South Carolina prior to 9/11.

A leaked Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) report on the activities of Israeli art students prior to 9/11 revealed that female Israeli art students were active in Palo Alto and Fresno.

The British-Israeli art student said that on the morning of 9/11 she was standing outside the Pentagon. She admitted she never saw a plane hit the building but saw a huge ‘hole’ in the building after an explosion.


The art student also said that she was in Times Square in New York the next day, September 12, attending a memorial service for the 9/11 victims. She said she had a ticket to fly out of New York’s John F. Kennedy Airport on September 12 but that because commercial planes were grounded she had to find another way to leave the country.

The art student sad she ‘had to get out’ of the United States because she did not have a proper visa to continue working in the United States. She said she left the United States over the Canadian border. When quizzed why she left so quickly after 9/11, the art student replied that she ‘had to leave cause the United States Government thought Israelis had something to do with 9/11.’”

WMR has learned that the one-time Israeli art student who was active in selling art in the months preceding 9/11 and was outside the Pentagon on the morning of 9/11 is now operating two market kiosks in London that primarily sell women’s handbags. They are situated in Notting Hill and Camden in two neighborhoods where a number of people from Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Arab countries reside.

On December 31, 2008, two Israelis who worked in a hair products kiosk at the Rosengaard Mall in Odense, Denmark, on the island of Funen, were shot and slightly wounded by a Danish assailant who was born in Lebanon and was of Palestinian origin. One of the Israelis owned the kiosk, which sold Dead Sea hair and skin care products, a usual front for Israeli intelligence operations. Apparently, the Israelis’ activities had caught the attention of Middle Eastern youth in Odense days before the shooting and the two Israelis had been harassed. The Danish Security and Intelligence Service was reported to have been notified about the incident by Odense police. The two Israelis, in their 20s, had only been in Denmark for about a week.

Israeli charge d’affaires Dan Oryan said it was disturbing that the two Israelis were targeted merely because they were Israelis. Oryan’s reaction is in keeping with other Israeli denials and obfuscation that their young nationals are engaged in intelligence operations while masquerading as art students, mall kiosk vendors, and moving company employees.

The National Security Agency (NSA) and other U.S. intelligence agencies have warned that Israeli mall kiosks are suspected Israeli intelligence fronts. However, in bust after bust, the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) bureau of the Homeland Security Department, headed by Israeli agent-of-influence Michael Chertoff, merely deports Israelis who work illegally on tourist visas.

No Israelis are ever charged with espionage or other major crimes in a trial.

Israeli national Ohad Cohen entered the United States multiple times in 2004 to manage kiosks and supervise other Israelis, all working in the United States illegally, at Oakview Mall in Omaha and Gateway Westfield Mall in Lincoln, Nebraska. Nine Israelis were arrested and all were deported without a trial. Cohen was forced to forfeit over $35,000 he made from kiosk sales in Nebraska.

In December 2004, the FBI and ICE arrested 15 Israelis at various Minnesota mall kiosks for selling illegally copied electronic games software. Yonatan Cohen was charged with illegal copyright violations. Also in 1994, ICE agents arrested three Israelis working at a mall kiosk in Grand Forks, North Dakota. Grand Forks and Omaha are home to major Air Force bases.

On October 31, 2001, nine Israelis were arrested by Immigration and Naturalization Service agents while working at a Toledo, Ohio, area mall kiosk selling Israeli toy helicopters called “Zoom Copters.” Seven Israelis were released but two, Yaniv Hani and Oren Behr, were deemed “special interest” cases in a federal law enforcement probe of terrorism activities and the 9/11 attack. Hani and Behr told the Associated Press that FBI agents asked them if they were spies for the Israeli government. FBI agents also asked the Israelis detailed questions about their Israeli military service.

Mark Regev, then a spokesperson for the Israeli embassy in Washington and now a shill for the government of Israel in Jerusalem, denied that any Israelis arrested in the United States were espionage agents.

After 9/11, some 30 Israelis were arrested in St. Louis, Kansas City, and Columbia, Missouri, for being in the United States illegally. Other Israeli kiosk workers were detained in California. The Israelis said they were hired by a Miami Beach-based company called Quality Sales to work at shopping mall kiosks in Missouri.

Previously published in the Wayne Madsen Report.

Copyright © 2008 WayneMadenReport.com

Wayne Madsen is a Washington, DC-based investigative journalist and nationally-distributed columnist. He is the editor and publisher of the Wayne Madsen Report (subscription required).

Copyright © 1998-2007 Online Journal
Email Online Journal Editor

Posted by: Ricochet Jan 17 2009, 06:31 PM

I have always been suspitious of this beltway killer sceario. http://www.fbi.gov/page2/oct07/snipers102207.html
It happened at the right time between 10/2 and 10/24 (arrest of stupes) to ram the so called US PATRIOT act to pass and signed into law by shrub on 10/26. The hole in the trunk above the license plate would not be high enough to sight a .223 Bushmaster through, only large enough to stick the barrel out. I have a background in shooting competitions and it would be impossible to use this weapon from a trunk of a car with that small of an opening with any sort of accuracy. Use logic when dealing with these people, it was a black op.

Posted by: madtruth Jan 17 2009, 07:30 PM

QUOTE (Ricochet @ Jan 17 2009, 05:31 PM) *
I have always been suspitious of this beltway killer sceario. http://www.fbi.gov/page2/oct07/snipers102207.html
It happened at the right time between 10/2 and 10/24 (arrest of stupes) to ram the so called US PATRIOT act to pass and signed into law by shrub on 10/26. The hole in the trunk above the license plate would not be high enough to sight a .223 Bushmaster through, only large enough to stick the barrel out. I have a background in shooting competitions and it would be impossible to use this weapon from a trunk of a car with that small of an opening with any sort of accuracy. Use logic when dealing with these people, it was a black op.



I agree with you Ricochet. Like the Anthrax attacks, it was a black ops distraction and fearmongering event, in line with everything that ran thru this administrations brazen themes that went right over the head of the mainstreamers (mainly hypnotized Bush obssessed extreme right winged Conservatives.. or not so right winged).

Posted by: agentbluescreen Mar 4 2011, 06:17 PM

QUOTE (SPreston @ May 14 2008, 11:43 PM) *
No, sorry I do not. However this photo might be of some help http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/AEDrive1.jpeg or this photo http://www.davesweb.cnchost.com/AEDrive2.jpeg or http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/16.jpg or http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/17.jpg





http://www.fema.gov/photodata/original/4524.jpg

This is the back bathroom by the back door corridor near the punch-out hole.  It is located at the back C Ring of Section 5 Wedge 2 between columns -1 and -3 between the final row of columns N-O. You can see a brick hallway wall knocked down (at right) and the bathroom mirror (back wall). This is where the urinal and garbage can originated that we see in the first, earliest, definitely not burning Punch Out hole photo. There is no or very little fire damage, just bombing and smoke damage.



What's Wrong Here?!



Note the small "silvery painted" GREEN AIRPLANE and it's fuel didn't initially get much past the middle of the D Ring due to concrete (tile block) walls on one side of most hallways!


Fig 6.2 (corrected,annotated)

This is a later picture after debris was being removed.


The mere notion that this tail thing in the alley, arranged to look like it was allegedly recovered from the D or C 1st floor near the exit hole at around J to M could be from the same plane that already looks like this at 3H is totally impossible and unbelievable.



And to top it all off we have this as well:
http://911blogger-bans-truth.com/news/2008-10-08/fake-firefighters-and-military-imposters-pentagon-after-911

[color=blue]So the conclusions are:

A: They were worried the substitute plane wouldn't get in deep enough to kill the auditors so used the missile to make sure the job got done forgetting about the jet fuel evidence. (We have photos of it hit 8 seconds later)
http://forum.prisonplanet.com/index.php?topic=164982.msg1206351#msg1206351

B: Brick walls in hallways confined the fuel fire.

C: They landed AA 77 elsewhere swapped planes and executed the crew and passengers (likely by gas) moved the bodies into a fake repainted military/blackwater 737 class transport with remote piloting (a pilot wouldn't have risked the lamp poles) and sent it off to the Pentagon.

D: They likely merged the FDR's data reset the clock and deleted the extra landing and held it disabled at takeoff until a rendezvous point to make a new recording, forgetting about the telltale cockpit door data.

E:  They wrecked the CVR because it was a TERCOM piloted ghost flight with a dead crew and a few bodies.

F:  They had the missile ready and waiting likely on the last to land Andrews trainer jets that landed a few minutes later after being up all morning in the area (playing in N Carolina -more likely intercepting and forcing down AA 77 at Beckley all morning)

G:  The crash was not as good as they thought due to the hardening but the missile propelled rear wreckage, forward, and deeper, though the fuel was already gone. It was programmed to a) destroy the the decoy, b) kill the auditors , c) kill key NOC IP and DIA intel brass who knew too much about Mujihadeen and al CIAduh and d) make that hole for them to get in through the courtyard

H:  Likely they delivered the rest of the bagged burnt bodies later by other means (helicopters) along with some other identifiable Boeing parts to allay suspicions choppered in from Beckley .

I:   They were collecting scratched silver painted green fuselage parts to hide the nature of the plane, especially this giant cockpit passenger compartment canopy



http://www.supremelaw.org/cc/gwbush/pentagon/pentdebris.jpg The scratched-silver painted green plane - note the metal is just curled and paint scratched off on the torn ribbon part which is an outside surface


American Airlines Saving Money On Paint? — Tech Ops Forum ...
24 posts - 16 authors - Last post: 7 Apr 2005
I was wondering, does AA benefit in anyway, especially cost wise, from flying their jets in almost bare metal? I saw a bare 777 on Heathrow, ...
http://www.airliners.net/aviation-forums/tech_ops/read.main/115120/
American's A-300s were painted gray for many years while the rest of the fleet was, and is, polished aluminum. Several years ago for whatever reason, the buses were stripped and polished also. AA believes the lack of paint is cost effective.

Posted by: Cosmored May 14 2011, 05:41 PM

I was going to start a thread on this but I figured I'd just ask here.

What does everybody think of this analysis?
http://www.bcrevolution.ca/911_part_iii.htm

I did some measurements and it looked like the proof was valid.

Also, the nose of the craft in this picture looks too pointed to be the nose of a 757.
http://www.g7welcomingcommittee.com/blog/wp-content/images/pentagon1_plane.jpg

It looks to me like this photo...
http://0911.voila.net/index3.htm
(top photo)

...and the above one close the whole case. What does everybody think?

Posted by: zoeken May 18 2011, 06:01 PM

QUOTE (Cosmored @ May 14 2011, 04:41 PM) *
I was going to start a thread on this but I figured I'd just ask here.

What does everybody think of this analysis?
http://www.bcrevolution.ca/911_part_iii.htm

I did some measurements and it looked like the proof was valid.

Also, the nose of the craft in this picture looks too pointed to be the nose of a 757.
http://www.g7welcomingcommittee.com/blog/wp-content/images/pentagon1_plane.jpg

It looks to me like this photo...
http://0911.voila.net/index3.htm
(top photo)

...and the above one close the whole case. What does everybody think?


This has been discussed before. I highly recommend going through some of the old posts under "Pentagon", and check out the Library on this site. Amazing amount of proof and analysis.

You need to watch this:

http://www.thepentacon.com/eyeofthestorm.htm

Posted by: Cosmored May 21 2011, 02:55 PM

Thanks zoeken

I looked around but I couldn't find anything with some actual measurements. Couldn't we measure it ourselves?

I'm talking about this at the James Randi forum.
http://govtloyalistsite.org/showpost.php?p=7183548&postcount=145

If anybody knows of a post with some actual measurements, could you post it here? Thanks.

Posted by: Cosmored May 22 2011, 09:27 AM

Here's my latest post from the James Randi thread.
http://govtloyalistsite.org/showpost.php?p=7208375&postcount=243

Does anyone want to check my calculations?

Posted by: zoeken May 23 2011, 12:52 AM

QUOTE (Cosmored @ May 22 2011, 08:27 AM) *
Here's my latest post from the James Randi thread.
http://govtloyalistsite.org/showpost.php?p=7208375&postcount=243

Does anyone want to check my calculations?


links did not work for me

Posted by: Cosmored May 23 2011, 04:35 AM

There must be a glitch in the system.

forums (dot) randi (dot) org/showpost (dot) php?p=7208375&postcount=243

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