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Firefighter: Giuliani 'ran Like A Coward On 9/11', Before the Towers Fell?

Omega892R09
post Jan 24 2008, 03:43 PM
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QUOTE (Omega892R09 @ Jan 24 2008, 08:03 AM)
So, Rudolph Guileannie should not even be running for President, or any other national office.

Why is he keeping his powder dry until the Florida primaries? What is set to happen before we get there I wonder?

Worried! sweat.gif

Well somebody does know something as our Home Secretary demonstrates with her latest talking up of the terror threat:

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/s...2246214,00.html

I dont know if I should be angry.gif

or wub.gif wub.gif wub.gif
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KP50
post Jan 24 2008, 06:06 PM
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QUOTE (Omega892R09 @ Jan 25 2008, 08:43 AM)
Well somebody does know something as our Home Secretary demonstrates with her latest talking up of the terror threat:

http://politics.guardian.co.uk/terrorism/s...2246214,00.html

I dont know if I should be angry.gif

or wub.gif wub.gif wub.gif

Having lived through the "IRA years" in the UK, this statement

QUOTE
The home secretary, Jacqui Smith, said today that the terror threat facing the UK was "higher than it has ever been"


is bizarre to say the least. It is strange how through the 70s and 80s, terrorism was underplayed lest terrorists were given the "oxygen of publicity" and these days, what appears to be the least successful terrorist organisation ever devised is built up into an unimaginably horrific ogre.

You'd almost think they were making it up ..... whistle.gif
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dMz
post Jan 24 2008, 06:28 PM
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QUOTE (KP50 @ Jan 24 2008, 03:06 PM)
...is bizarre to say the least. It is strange how through the 70s and 80s, terrorism was underplayed lest terrorists were given the "oxygen of publicity" and these days, what appears to be the least successful terrorist organisation ever devised is built up into an unimaginably horrific ogre.

You'd almost think they were making it up .....  whistle.gif

Doublespeak- see Orwell, George

see also Rove, Karl

Cheney, Dick

Perle, Richard

Bush, George Hiram Walker

Media, mainstream...
----
Sincerely,

d. Winston Smith
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amazed!
post Jan 24 2008, 11:05 PM
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I think the Brits are into fear-mongering, as a government function, than are the americans. Though it is quite close, and a tie for all practical purposes. :ph43r:
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dMz
post Jan 26 2008, 09:38 AM
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[This just in]

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/26/us/polit...int&oref=slogin

January 26, 2008
Memo Details Objections to Command Center Site
By WILLIAM K. RASHBAUM

The New York Police Department produced a detailed analysis in 1998 opposing plans by the city to locate its emergency command center at the World Trade Center, but the Giuliani administration overrode those objections. The command center later collapsed from damage in the Sept. 11 terrorist attack.

“Seven World Trade Center is a poor choice for the site of a crucial command center for the top leadership of the City of New York,” a panel of police experts, which was aided by the Secret Service, concluded in a confidential Police Department memorandum.

The memorandum, which has not been previously disclosed, cited a number of “significant points of vulnerability.” Those included: the building’s public access, the center’s location on the 23rd floor, a 1,200-gallon diesel fuel supply for its generator, a large garage and delivery bays, the building’s history as a terrorist target, and its placement above and adjacent to a Consolidated Edison substation that provided much of the power for Lower Manhattan.

Rudolph W. Giuliani, the mayor then, has acknowledged some police skepticism about the site, but he has described it as resulting from a jurisdictional dispute between police officials and his emergency management director, who had played a role in selecting the site.

The eight-page memo reveals that police officials asked a variety of in-house experts in various disciplines and an outside expert to prepare a detailed analysis of the site’s vulnerabilities.

The decision to put the command center in the trade center has been a continuing source of discomfort for Mr. Giuliani, whose expertise and preparedness as a leader in a time of crisis has been the chief element in his campaign for the Republican presidential nomination.

The site was completed in the summer of 1999 and was destroyed when the 47-story building at 7 World Trade Center collapsed on Sept. 11 after a fire there burned for much of the day.

“This group’s finding is that the security of the proposed O.E.M. Command Center cannot be reasonably guaranteed,” the commander of the intelligence division, Daniel J. Oates, wrote in the July 15, 1998, memo to the police commissioner.

The memo said the conclusions were based on analysis by police officials with expertise in infrastructure, building security, explosives, traffic and ventilation systems, who also consulted the Secret Service, including the agency’s New York special agent in charge, Chip Smith.

“Mr. Smith agrees with this assessment,” the memo says in its concluding paragraph, “even though his own office is in Seven World Trade Center. He acknowledges that the security of his office is a continuing concern because of the public nature of the building and the other reasons specified in this report.”

The memorandum was provided to The New York Times by a law enforcement official not affiliated with a rival political campaign.

Mr. Giuliani received a briefing on the Police Department’s recommendations, but it is unclear whether he received a copy of the memorandum.

Mr. Giuliani has said in the past that one of the reasons for choosing the location was that several federal agencies with which city officials needed to be in contact during emergencies, including the Secret Service, had their offices there. Other federal agencies in the building included the Defense Department and the C.I.A.

But the Police Department took the opposite position in the memo, saying the presence of those agencies made the building a more likely target.

Mr. Giuliani’s campaign declined on Friday to answer questions about the memo. But Maria Comella, a campaign spokeswoman, said the Giuliani administration had considered 50 different sites and examined a variety of factors before selecting the trade center.

“This is one memo out of a variety of memos that were presented,” she said.

Two years ago, in their book, “Grand Illusion,” Wayne Barrett and Dan Collins described the vehement objections to the choice raised by Police Commissioner Howard Safir and Chief of Department Louis R. Anemone. The memo from the Intelligence Division lays out what appears to have been the foundation for their arguments against the location.

Mr. Safir, who now operates a private security company and has supported Mr. Giuliani’s candidacy, did not a return a call seeking comment.

In response to questions about the site selection, Mr. Giuliani has typically said he relied on his emergency management director, Jerome M. Hauer, to find the best site and suggested he had little role in the process.

Mr. Hauer, however, has publicly disputed Mr. Giuliani’s assertion, saying that although he helped pick the site, he did so only after mayoral aides had told him the command center had to be within walking distance of City Hall. He has said he originally recommended a site in Brooklyn.

Mr. Hauer left the Giuliani administration in 2000 and worked as a consultant and served in the Department of Health and Human Services in the Bush administration. He later became a vocal critic of the former mayor. Mr. Hauer, however, has also praised Mr. Giuliani’s overall effort at emergency preparedness, a record that the Giuliani campaign went to some lengths to underscore on Friday.

Before Mr. Hauer left the Giuliani administration, great enmity existed between him and Mr. Safir. Mr. Safir’s critics have contended that he sought to limit the power and scope of the Office of Emergency Management once he became police commissioner in 1996. Mr. Giuliani created the office in 1996, and Mr. Hauer was its first director.

The memorandum sets out in detail the reasons why the Police Department concluded that the site was a poor choice for a command center, including its vulnerability to a biological attack and the ease with which a bomber could have damaged the building and crippled the center.

It has nine sections, the longest one headed “Explosives.” It describes a blast analysis conducted by the Police Department’s bomb squad, aided by the Secret Service, which looked at the likely impact of bombs of varying sizes, from one that could be carried in a car or a van to a large truck bomb.

The analysis, a standard practice used routinely to determine street closings when the president or another dignitary is in New York City, uses a computer system derived from the military and based on projections by the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives.

It concluded that the largest of such bombs would have led to the collapse of the building.
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amazed!
post Jan 26 2008, 05:00 PM
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Yeah, well Rudy was a FEDERAL prosecutor, so it's no wonder there is a FEDERAL connection.

Man, this thing was set up years ago. pilotfly.gif
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dMz
post May 27 2008, 02:42 PM
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Thanks to Ricochet, I recently found the following:

http://www.columbia.edu/~sc32/CATASTROPHE%...C%20SERVICE.pdf

-----p. 3-4
Like many Americans, NYC Mayor Rudolph Giuliani’s breakfast was interrupted by a telephone call alerting him of a horrible accident at the Trade Center’s North Tower (Seifman 2001). Giuliani quickly finished the meal he shared with top aide Denny Young, and the two drove downtown from the 50th Street restaurant toward City Hall. Within minutes, the mayor’s phone rang again, this time alerting him of a plane hitting the South Tower of the World Trade Center. Giuliani changed his route and headed directly to the scene.
As Giuliani raced to the World Trade Center from the north, Richard Sheirer, Director of NYC’s Office of Emergency Management (OEM) rushed to the World Trade Center from the south. Established in 1996 by Mayor Giuliani in partial response to the 1993 World Trade Center attack, the OEM acts as a liaison between all city agencies involved in emergency situations (Sandberg 2001). Prior to September 11, Sheirer’s responsibilities included controlling the city’s rat population and communicating information to residents about impending snowstorms.

On this day, Sheirer’s priority was securing lower Manhattan. To this end, he ordered the police department to close all roads below Canal Street, as well as all tunnels and bridges. He also activated the city’s Emergency Operations Center (EOC), a $13 million, 50,000 square foot “Watch Command” located on the 23rd floor of 7 World Trade Center (Bowles 2001 ). Housing numerous telecommunications and security systems, the Emergency Operations Center was expected to serve as the core logistics center for as many as 68 city agencies immediately following the attacks (ArcNews Online 2002). From here, Sheirer, Mayor Giuliani and personnel from organizations including the New York Police Department (NYPD) and Federal Emergency Management Agency (FEMA) could collect and redistribute orders and updates to law enforcement and residents alike.

When the second plane hit, debris flew into 7 World Trade Center, forcing Sheirer to evacuate the Emergency Operations Center and set up a command center in the lobby of the North Tower (Campo-Flores 2001). Sheirer then ordered the Coast Guard to seal New York harbor, and asked the Pentagon to close the city’s airspace (Griscom 2001). Concerned about additional attacks, Sheirer spoke with NYPD brass, which agreed that NYPD helicopter pilots should be prepared to crash their choppers into any other planes attempting to attack the city (Forty Eight Hours 2002).

Shutting down lower Manhattan facilitated quicker movement of emergency workers and supplies to the “hot zone” (Archibold 2001). Police Commissioner Bernard Kerik, (NYC.Gov 2002), spearheaded this latter effort. Kerik met Giuliani and several top fire department officials near the base of the Twin Towers just as the second plane hit at 9:03 a.m. (Marzulli 2001). Unable to contact the Emergency Operations Center, the staff moved to a makeshift command post at 75 Barclay Street to avoid the falling debris. Here, Giuliani, Kerik and top aides received briefings about the unfolding situation and from that location managed initial safety actions and communications. During this time, Giuliani conferred with Sheirer, who directed the closure of all non-emergency activity and entrants below 14th Street.

Just as Sheirer attempted communication with federal officials in the Capitol, Kerik tried coordinating efforts with NYPD officers throughout the five boroughs. Yet, like most offices located in lower Manhattan, access to telephone, cellular, pager and email communication was sporadic.

-----p. 5-6
Supporting the FDNY effort was the department’s commissioner, Thomas Von Essen. A firefighter for 26 years before becoming commissioner in 1996, Von Essen’s presence in the World Trade Center was to “support, help get resources and criticize…[to] break in their chops a little,” and give recommendations for evacuation to Mayor Giuliani “(Issaka et al. 2001, 8). As numerous fire chiefs and tour commanders were also present, Von Essen resisted making operating decisions and instead headed for the Emergency Operations Center at 7 World Trade Center.
...
Just minutes after Giuliani and Kerik settled in to their newest makeshift command post at a nearby firehouse, the South Tower collapsed at 9:59 a.m. and blockaded the group in the building. Von Essen, after finding the Emergency Operations Center evacuated, watched the tower fall while walking toward the mayor’s temporary headquarters. “Immediately… the magnitude of the loss was evident to him without having to hear any numbers”(Issaka et al. 2001, 8). After two more attempts to set up command posts, the mayor, police, Office of Emergency Management director and newly arrived FDNY commissioner settled in at the library of the police academy. For the next forty-eight hours, their teams worked feverishly to secure the city and its people from this unpublicized location.
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dMz
post Oct 10 2008, 11:55 PM
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R. Giuliani related threads at:

After 9/11, Rudy Wasn't A Rescue Worker --,, He Was A Yankee................
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?showtopic=8451

Giuliani Discouraged Use Of Respirators By Wtc Workers
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.php?showtopic=7472
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dMz
post Jan 19 2009, 08:11 PM
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Thanks to this post here:

http://www.physforum.com/index.php?showtopic=3108&st=0#

I found a source for the fire/emergency radio tapes here:

http://www.nbvfd3.org/nbvfd3_wtcaudio.html
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believeyourowney...
post Apr 23 2009, 07:16 PM
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QUOTE (elreb @ Jan 21 2008, 08:53 PM) *
Order of the British Empire

Knight Commander KBE

The former mayor of New York, Rudolph Giuliani, has received an honorary knighthood from the Queen for the role he played in the wake of the 11 September attacks.

Mr. Giuliani arrived at the Palace flanked by former New York police commissioner Bernard Kerik and former New York fire commissioner Thomas von Essen, who also received honorary CBEs.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/1817333.stm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UrbjJrLVBRk

I FEEL SICK!


I just up-chucked a little in the back of my mouth....
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lunk
post Apr 24 2009, 11:42 AM
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QUOTE
The former mayor of New York, Rudolph Giuliani, has received an honorary knighthood from the Queen for the role he played in the wake of the 11 September attacks.


Does an "honorary knighthood" change his title to "sir" (from "former")?

Does this change his "peer" group?

If he ever has to go to court, who would his own peers be, on the jury?
Royalty,
...or "twelve honest men"?

Just wondering...
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panthercat
post May 3 2009, 09:17 PM
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75 Barclay St. is not a deliverable address. I entered it in the USPS zipcode search page. Who knows if it exists or not.

For any first responders who were on the scene, did you see anything that resembled large pieces of airplane on the ground? Engine, tail section, wing, anything that didn't look like part of a building. Even if the aluminum airframe melted, there would still be large shiny blobs of it. Those who say the airplanes disintegrated in the fire seem to have a tenuous grasp on reality.

Jet fuel doesn't get hot enough to melt steel, especially in an open area, and fire will not pulverize 90,000 tons of concrete. Physics was given a vacation that day.

Giuliani is a politician. The definition of politics is: poly = many; tics = blood sucking creatures.
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Anduril
post May 4 2009, 04:08 AM
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QUOTE (tumetuestumefaisdubien @ Jan 23 2008, 03:01 PM) *
Quote from recent Bollyn's article (http://www.rumormillnews.com/cgi-bin/forum.cgi?read=117351)


I've actually SPOKEN with Jerome hauer about this matter, asking him to lend his expertise to resolving unanswered problems. I followed this up with an email to him.

He told me directly that he had "no knowledge of explosives."

Odd, that, because I seem to recall associates of his at university saying that he had enough expertise to "make a building walk sideways..."

He never responded (directly, anyway).

It is INCONCEIVABLE that mossad would allow participation in 9/11

It is INCONCEIVABLE that the IDF would allow any such thing.

They gained NOTHING from 9/11, and to have been PARTICIPANTS (except for intelligence-gathering reasons) would 'risk' United States' support for Israel for decades, if not forever.

Mossad & IDF are the sharpest knives in the box...

This "Israel did it" or "the jews did it" stuff is exactly what you'd expect as every anti-Semite there is comes out of the woodwork. It's simply absurd: no 'gain' but 'huge loss' Of course, a person of Jewish origin has free will, like everyone else. Anyone CAN do anything...

Wake up out there! I discussed all this with the Israeli Embassy in London within the past week...

Anduril
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tinynate
post May 4 2009, 04:25 AM
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hey you guys are making it much too complicated ...

he ran like a stuck pig and when asked by that young black girl about it later on, he tried to exit stage right again .... his actions speak the truth, not conjecture where he says he mightve been on barclay etc ...


who cares? he exposed himself as a liar and coward, thats the bottom line.

he is despised by all the firefighters in NYC

nuff said!


This post has been edited by tinynate: May 4 2009, 04:28 AM
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tinynate
post May 4 2009, 04:37 AM
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QUOTE (Anduril @ May 4 2009, 04:08 AM) *
I've actually SPOKEN with Jerome hauer about this matter, asking him to lend his expertise to resolving unanswered problems. I followed this up with an email to him.

He told me directly that he had "no knowledge of explosives."

Odd, that, because I seem to recall associates of his at university saying that he had enough expertise to "make a building walk sideways..."

He never responded (directly, anyway).

It is INCONCEIVABLE that mossad would allow participation in 9/11

It is INCONCEIVABLE that the IDF would allow any such thing.

They gained NOTHING from 9/11, and to have been PARTICIPANTS (except for intelligence-gathering reasons) would 'risk' United States' support for Israel for decades, if not forever.

Mossad & IDF are the sharpest knives in the box...

This "Israel did it" or "the jews did it" stuff is exactly what you'd expect as every anti-Semite there is comes out of the woodwork. It's simply absurd: no 'gain' but 'huge loss' Of course, a person of Jewish origin has free will, like everyone else. Anyone CAN do anything...

Wake up out there! I discussed all this with the Israeli Embassy in London within the past week...

Anduril



ARE YOU FRIGGIN KIDDING US???

Take your psyops 101 to the Irgon and try perfecting that cinema gig with Philip Nathanson.


http://it.truveo.com/War-by-Way-of-Decepti...s/id/2212641003
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DoYouEverWonder
post May 4 2009, 03:03 PM
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QUOTE (panthercat @ May 3 2009, 09:17 PM) *
75 Barclay St. is not a deliverable address. I entered it in the USPS zipcode search page. Who knows if it exists or not.

For any first responders who were on the scene, did you see anything that resembled large pieces of airplane on the ground? Engine, tail section, wing, anything that didn't look like part of a building. Even if the aluminum airframe melted, there would still be large shiny blobs of it. Those who say the airplanes disintegrated in the fire seem to have a tenuous grasp on reality.

Jet fuel doesn't get hot enough to melt steel, especially in an open area, and fire will not pulverize 90,000 tons of concrete. Physics was given a vacation that day.

Giuliani is a politician. The definition of politics is: poly = many; tics = blood sucking creatures.



Looking at the building closest to that location on Google Earth, it's seems to be under construction? Maybe that's why the address doesn't work anymore?

Edit: Digging around some more and something doesn't make sense. Either the building doesn't exist or it's one block west of where I thought it was? I thought it was east of West Broadway, but if it exists it must be on the block west of West Broadway. Anyone else have a clue?

This post has been edited by DoYouEverWonder: May 4 2009, 03:30 PM
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