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Esoteric Agenda, ...excellent two hour doc`!

CocaineImportAge...
post Mar 23 2008, 01:49 AM
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....if you liked Zeitgeist.... you will like this too!


..... Esoteric Agenda
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lunk
post Mar 23 2008, 11:02 AM
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Two thumbs up!
Must see...
likely, more than once.

If Zeitgeist was a movie genre,
this would be hard core.

imo, lunk
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painter
post Mar 23 2008, 11:41 AM
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QUOTE (lunk @ Mar 23 2008, 08:02 AM) *
Two thumbs up!
Must see...
likely, more than once.

If Zeitgeist was a movie genre,
this would be hard core.

imo, lunk



Really? You liked it? Can't say that I did. I give it thumbdown.gif
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lunk
post Mar 23 2008, 12:01 PM
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It does push the religious aspect,
unlike zeitgeist.

And I know that Thallium is also used as an ingredient in rat poison.
(not just Fluorine) as the film says.

So, I guess I should add that it should be taken with a grain of salt.
(The movie, not the poison)
But, I'm not ready to throw it right out the window, yet.

Painter, can you elaborate a little more?

This post has been edited by lunk: Mar 23 2008, 12:06 PM
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Sanders
post Mar 23 2008, 12:28 PM
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I haven't seen the flick yet (very tenuous internet connection at the moment), but I imagine painter, given his familiarity with the subject matter, would be a tough customer. I know the feeling, Quest thought "Ring of Power" was the greatest thing since sliced bread, but I had so many problems with it I didn't know where to start. There are topics out there, esotericism being one of them, the topic of "Ring of Power" being another that, with the exception of books you won't find at the mall, haven't been broached much. That time is coming though - more and more people more and more want to know ... WTF? How did we get here? What can I do? Who do I cope with this reality now that my eyes are open???

Like I said, I haven't seen the video yet. If my "response" is slightly off the mark forgive me wink.gif
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lunk
post Mar 23 2008, 01:12 PM
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Ok, I'll admit that there were a few parts of the movie
that I felt just weren't right, but it was more "the feeling"
than anything in particular.

The template, format, and similar music were exactly the same as
Zeitgeist, yet the message was somewhat variant.

This did bother me, as I feel it is a sort of plagiarism of style.
As a compliment; this is good.
But, as a way of selling online poker chips...

I'll lower it to one thumb sideways of indecision.

imo, for now, lunk
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painter
post Mar 23 2008, 02:46 PM
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QUOTE (lunk @ Mar 23 2008, 09:01 AM) *
...
Painter, can you elaborate a little more?


Well, like Sanders indicates, there are so many things wrong with it I hardly know where to begin. I mean, it would take a long time and a lot of interest (neither of which I have) to deconstruct it all. But in broad strokes it takes a rats ass and a cannon ball and tries to tie them together as a compelling whole. I assume the person who made this has read a lot of conspiratorial works and could cite them as sources for the information presented but where is the critical analysis of those sources?

Its biggest flaw is its superficiality. The creator of this presentation has no more understanding of what esotericism actually is than the average atheist has of religion -- and I'm hardly a defender of religion. In this superficial gloss, anything hidden or kept secret is considered 'esoteric' -- and that is its common definition. But that isn't what genuine (as opposed to fake or make-believe) esotericism actually is. I pined a thread on this subject in the alt-theories forum as I assume you know -- a thread I intend to return to in due course. But, in the briefest possible terms, esotericism represents a form of knowledge that we, in our current STATE, can not grasp. It isn't that anything is hidden, just that we are not able as we are to understand it. It takes years of preparation and training to understand even ordinary things like science, art, what have you. Esotericism is much the same but also quite different because what is required is not only an accumulation of information but 1) certain very specific kinds of information and 2) a conscious will and intention to change one's being and, thus, come to understand something that can not be understood by human beings as we ordinarily are. The whole of genuine esotericism is about how to do that, about what is necessary to awaken not only an awareness of our human condition but what is absolutely required of us to proceed further on the ladder of conscious evolution.

Its like, you know, the angels could come down in their shining glory and tell us the truth but we wouldn't get it. Some would fall at their feet in praise, others would want to round them up and crucify them (all of which has been done) -- none of it to any avail what so ever. The galactic civilization isn't exactly 'out there' in space, the material limitations of which make journeying from one star system to another fairly impossible absent a VERY advanced technology. But, because the galaxy isn't constructed only along the lines of 3/4 dimensionality (3 of space 1 of time), there really are 'work arounds' to this problem. But to get there one has to transform the functioning of the whole human organism, especially the sensory/cognitive functions. This can not be 'forced' from the outside without the risk of considerable damage to the whole organism -- the planetary form of the virtual being. There has to, at the very least, be the 'wish' for transformation and, ultimately, this 'wish' has to be nurtured, fed, challenged, exercised, developed and educated. Moreover, it can not be theoretical to be real. It isn't just something else to think about and wiseacre about over a cup of coffee. In the end, it truly is our only hope of escaping the slavery that is "the world pulled over our eyes."
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lunk
post Mar 23 2008, 06:33 PM
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The thing that got me was that it appeared to tie so many
different snipits of "conspiracy" together into one conclusion,
not that I agree with that conclusion, and unlike this movie,
I feel it is vitally important to continue waking people up to what is known about the dire straits of our present civilization.

Would you see it differently if the author didn't use the word
"esoteric"?
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painter
post Mar 23 2008, 08:21 PM
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QUOTE (lunk @ Mar 23 2008, 03:33 PM) *
The thing that got me was that it appeared to tie so many
different snipits of "conspiracy" together into one conclusion,
not that I agree with that conclusion, and unlike this movie,
I feel it is vitally important to continue waking people up to what is known about the dire straits of our present civilization.


Kind of the point -- rats ass and cannon ball -- utterly over reaching beyond the presenters actual knowledge, much less scholastic ability. HE DOES NOT KNOW WHAT HE IS TALKING ABOUT, even superficially. He only presumes to know based on his second hand and indiscriminate reading of other people who may be as full of sh*t as he is.

QUOTE
Would you see it differently if the author didn't use the word
"esoteric"?


Not much, no, but that he DID choose to use it in content and title only makes matters worse.
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Carl Bank
post Mar 23 2008, 10:37 PM
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yawn.gif uuaahhhh... it is 3:30 am here... I was just trying to have a sneak view at this thing... and watched the entire doc.


...and I am wondering, why your are that angry about it, painter.

Sure, it got some flaws and is sometimes not base on the makers own conclusion, who
is parroting others or just quoting without having knowledge of the entire thing...

anyway: This is great stuff. And it is the stuff that matters. You, Painter, are adressing
the flaes of the messenger with your critic, but the point is not the messenger, as you should
know (and of course do). I have respect for the maker of this flick, not only for the efford it entails.
It is also great basic stuff to do ones own research on... What did you expect?

Uahhh... too tired, my friends. See you tomorrow: Carl
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painter
post Mar 24 2008, 12:05 AM
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QUOTE (Carl Bank @ Mar 23 2008, 07:37 PM) *
. . .
...and I am wondering, why your are that angry about it, painter.
. . .


I'm not angry about it. My "all caps" typing is for emphasis, not yelling.

Hopefully it is obvious that there is a lot in this film that I agree with. Perhaps you are right, Carl, that I'm being overly critical. Just now I went back and re-watched most of it, skipping past certain segments. I'm debating in my own mind whether I'm willing to compromise on my thumbs-down to a more horizontal position. I wish I could give it a 'thumbs up' but I just can't do that because there is within it a premise -- that there IS an esoteric agenda -- that I can't accept as factual. That there is an agenda, that I don't deny -- what I'm on about is that those who are perpetrating this agenda have genuine esoteric knowledge. Quite the contrary.

I'm going to go back and review the final two segments (which, to me, are the most important), and if I'm motivated, I'll come back here with further comment. See, to me, where he is pointing at the end -- THAT is where genuine esotericism comes into the picture. What he is labeling "esoteric" as in "esoteric agenda" is actually the occult -- the black arts -- power, control, manipulation, deception, hypnotism, etc. -- which is a corruption of esotericism, not the true esotericism.
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lunk
post Mar 24 2008, 01:50 AM
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Yes, the "corruption of esotericism", would be better fitting title.
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paranoia
post Mar 24 2008, 03:56 AM
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i went to talismanicidols.org (linked to in the video info of the googlevid), and it was defunct. so i looked up the WHOIS info on it, which eventually led (via the site's admin's email addy) to the band (below). so for anyone who's interested from more from the author/maker of the video, look here:

http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fusea...riendid=6659697

***

the vid from the OP pictured (for a second) this guy Freeman Fly, whose stuff i have checked out before and find fascinating and informative (some- not all of it). but if anyone's interested, u can check out some of his stuff out here: http://freemanarchives.com/ . in particular i was first introduced to Freeman by way of this vid:

"Anna Nicole, Britney Spears Mind Control"
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-891321698051955222

-and it really made re-think my understanding of "pop culture" and so much of what's fed to us as "news" these days, so i highly recommend it.


***

btw- regarding the thread: it was a good movie, but felt at times contradictory due to its own use of scare tactics, and it seemed to try to connect too many things. im not saying the connections it alleged were bogus, but perhaps they tried to fit too much in to one movie. the segues between the connections could have been expanded/elaborated on so that they would be more solid and flow abit more logically.

but it did introduce some new names and subjects i hope to look deeper into. specifically, William Cooper's OBL prediction and his death by police was noteworthy and at the top of my list of things to look up. so thanks for posting...
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Carl Bank
post Mar 24 2008, 05:12 AM
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QUOTE (lunk @ Mar 24 2008, 03:50 PM) *
Yes, the "corruption of esotericism", would be better fitting title.


Yep. Painter & Lunk: The title is misleading and should be changed.

But lot of the info is eye-opening.


at least to: Carl
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lunk
post Mar 24 2008, 12:53 PM
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QUOTE (Carl Bank @ Mar 24 2008, 02:12 AM) *
Yep. Painter & Lunk: The title is misleading and should be changed.

But lot of the info is eye-opening.


at least to: Carl


How about "Esoterrorism"?
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painter
post Mar 24 2008, 01:17 PM
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We always have to begin from where we are. And, where are we, exactly? Each of us assumes he knows the answer to this question: I am me, here, now. And so long as we keep that in the focus of our awareness, it remains true. But how many of us have that quality of attention? That is, the ability to sustain this focused awareness of the totality of oneself while simultaneously engaging dynamically with the particular reality structure we find ourselves in? Our senses tell us -- and, therefore, it makes sense to say -- we are in this world, such as it is, located at particular spatial and temporal coordinates that appear to be changing along a trend line. Within that our bodies are constantly receiving a cascade of energies which get formed into a perception of the world and ourselves in it. I call it the selfworld matrix. It is being formed within us, moment by moment, whether we attend to it consciously or not.

Speaking from my own observations I can say that much of the time I'm not truly aware that "I am here now." Right now as I write this I am attempting to write while, at the same time, intentionally expanding my field of awareness to include more so that perhaps I won't loose my sense of herenowness so easily. I pause to think about what I'm going to say next, pick up the cigarette resting to my right and take another puff before picking up the bent tin can I use as an ashtray with my left hand and snuffing out the cigarette so I can keep both hands on the keyboard. It is difficult to sustain this broadened awareness of my presence in the on-going moment when I think about what to say here because my attention gets caught up by the energy of word formation as the flow of my attention coalesces into something to say.

What is worth saying? At best words can only be reminders: signals in the outer world which somehow cause us to pause and look, not theoretically with the intellect or fantastically with the imagination but directly through the senses at what my experience of being is here, now, in this present moment. What I observe is that the focus of my attention never quite rests in this sensorial awareness but wanders off. At the level of impulses impacting my body, that energy cascade never ceases but my awareness of this weakens and fragments as the focus of my attention moves toward an engaged function, whether it be writing or reading or thinking or imagining. I observe that I do not know how I know how to type, how the muscles of my fingers know how to move and tap on the appropriate keys to deposit letters strung together in a line on a digital, virtual piece of paper, which your eyes now scan. How is it that these little shapes are given associative meaning in the mind and form a thought that in some mysterious way "makes sense"? How very far away is all this from the actual, perceived sensation of my being here seated in this chair, gazing into a computer monitor with my eyes?

How long can any of us engage in this real-world esoteric exercise of working with the attention? That is, having an intention to use the attention to study its subject (what we are aware of) as well as the attention itself (in what ways we are or are not aware). This is why various forms of meditation exist and have found practitioners throughout history all over the world up to the present time. The forms may vary, the rituals associated with it may vary, the teaching associated with it may vary, but in all instances they are exercises for creating the conditions within which the attention can begin to perceive and study itself. Properly understood, for example, this is what real prayer is -- not a bequest or petition of some force outside of and greater than ourselves, at least not one absent a conscious awareness of oneself in the moment. It is the intentional establishment of a conscious relationship between all the energetic forces that can be known directly within the self.

QUOTE
For a seemingly hopeless battle, the solution to all of these problems is simple. The only weapon they have against us is keeping the knowledge of our true nature from us.


This statement from the film is exactly right but if we are not paying attention to our own presence here in this moment, from where and from what and/or whom is "the knowledge of our true nature" going to come? This is the mistake that everyone makes -- and it is what keeps us 'chained' to a 'prison planet' (in esoteric understanding a 'plane' or 'level' of being) within which death seems inevitable and unavoidable while our lives are ruled by fear and lust, not love. The narrator is right to point out that a long chain of events we may call our life-lines has brought us to the information put forth in this film, just as it has brought you here to the reading of these words. But the simple fact is it isn't enough to watch a film or read words -- or even write them -- if there is no inner intention to simultaneously sustain a relaxed and open awareness of the whole field of energies that comprise the selfworld matrix.

This is the fundamental key to genuine esoteric knowledge. Without it symbols, words, images, whether factual or not, strung together in a narrative invariably form within us a kind of 'dream' which, if the energy of our attention coalesces absently around it, becomes a substitute for our direct experience of being in the moment. Thus we come to 'think' that we 'know' what our 'true nature' is when, in fact, we have not looked long enough and deeply enough to come to a full understanding of this question for ourselves. For example, the narrator of this film speaks of Chakras and energy assemblage points within our organism and the relationship between the various planes of the cosmos -- a potentially transformative rhythm of energy that pulsates from the Great, down to our Sun, to the Earth, and from the Earth to our Hearts and into the Mind. Even if we accept with our limited thinking that there might be some truth to this idea that in some mysterious way we are all connected together and all connected to some greater whole that transcends the limitations our fear-based experience confines us to, what good does it do us if we are not engaged in the inner effort to substantiate this directly for ourselves? It is true, we need 'new' (actually quite ancient but 'new' to us) information that can remind us to 'wake up' from the limitations that we have accepted as 'real'. But if we transform that new information into another dream or fantasy, if we throw together rats asses and cannon balls in the chaotic blender of possibility and derive from it a paranoid world view, or if we mistakenly believe that belief in the possibility of transcendence alone will sustain us and transform us to meet the challenges which appear to lie directly ahead in our trend lines, we will have failed utterly to grasp the key that has been handed us. This isn't about what anyone else has said or written -- whether recently or in ancient times. It is about whether or not we actually know from our own direct experience what our true natures are. Displacing this responsibility to look, search, observe and learn directly from a more global, holistic, and sustained attention to the total field of my experience and accept a symbolic representation of it from outside myself as a substitute, is to fail. This is precisely how "religions" get started and, one might say, precisely what "religions" are -- substitutes for direct experience of what is.

In brief, although it may be correct to say that "the only weapon they have against us is keeping the knowledge of our true nature from us," we have to be willing to go deeper into this question of what 'our true nature' is -- and this can not be done with even the finest intellect alone. One must pay attention and learn to observe directly for one's self and one must learn to differentiate a direct experiential knowledge of the selfworld matrix from all symbolic representations of it, however they are expressed or represented, even in our own thoughts. Without this we remain the sheep of the master from whose trough we sup.
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lunk
post Mar 24 2008, 03:54 PM
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Is our "true nature" an individual thing (different in everyone)
or is it universal (common to all)?

please don't say both.

cheers, lunk
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painter
post Mar 24 2008, 04:04 PM
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QUOTE (lunk @ Mar 24 2008, 12:54 PM) *
Is our "true nature" an individual thing (different in everyone)
or is it universal (common to all)?

please don't say both.

cheers, lunk


I don't know if you are asking me but if you are my answer is, why ask me? How can we know the answer to this question without relying upon someone else's inevitably symbolic explanation? You have the key to unlocking the door. All that is necessary is to recognize it for what it is, value it, and begin the task at hand.
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painter
post Mar 24 2008, 05:16 PM
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For a variety of reasons including the fact that the docu in the OP postulates quite a few unsubstantiated conspiratorial hypotheses, not to mention the direction the discussion is flowing, I am moving this thread to the alt-theories forum.
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Carl Bank
post Mar 24 2008, 06:08 PM
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opened a new topic about 12/21/2012 in the alt. theories forum: Carl
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