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Noc Witness: Terry Morin, If it flew over the Navy Annex, it's NOC

Aldo Marquis CIT
post Apr 13 2008, 05:00 PM
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CIT has made it abundantly clear that if the plane flew over the Navy Annex, it was on the NOC flight path.

In Terry Morin's account, he points out how the plane flew OVER the Navy Annex otherwise known as the BMDO/FOB or FOB #2 (Federal Office Building).

He clearly states that the plane:

-Flew "right over the top of me and the outer portion of the FOB"
-Was "50 ft above the FOB"
-"Cleared the 8th wing"
- Was involved in a "FOB flyover"

This is EXACTLY the flight path that Edward Paik describes...


...which would take it north of the Citgo.

QUOTE
The Attack

I had just reached the elevator in the 5th Wing of BMDO/Federal Office Building (FOB) #2 – call it approximately 9:36 AM. I was already trying to make some sense out of the World Trade Tower attacks having heard about them on the radio. The news was sketchy, but the fact that it was a terrorist attack was already known. I then realized that I was wearing sunglasses and needed to go back to Lot 3 to retrieve my clear lenses. Since it was by no means a short walk to my car, I was upset with myself for being so distracted. Approximately 10 steps out from between Wings 4 and 5, I was making a gentle right turn towards the security check-in building just above Wing 4 when I became aware of something unusual. I can’t remember exactly what I was thinking about at that moment, but I started to hear an increasingly loud rumbling behind me and to my left. As I turned to my left, I immediately realized the noise was bouncing off the 4-story structure that was Wing 5. One to two seconds later the airliner came into my field of view. By that time the noise was absolutely deafening. I instantly had a very bad feeling about this but things were happening very quickly. The aircraft was essentially right over the top of me and the outer portion of the FOB (flight path parallel the outer edge of the FOB). Everything was shaking and vibrating, including the ground. I estimate that the aircraft was no more than 100 feet above me (30 to 50 feet above the FOB) in a slight nose down attitude. The plane had a silver body with red and blue stripes down the fuselage. I believed at the time that it belonged to American Airlines, but I couldn’t be sure. It looked like a 737 and I so reported to authorities.

Within seconds the plane cleared the 8th Wing of BMDO and was heading directly towards the Pentagon. Engines were at a steady high-pitched whine, indicating to me that the throttles were steady and full. I estimated the aircraft speed at between 350 and 400 knots. The flight path appeared to be deliberate, smooth, and controlled. As the aircraft approached the Pentagon, I saw a minor flash (later found out that the aircraft had sheared off a portion of a highway light pole down on Hwy 110). As the aircraft flew ever lower I started to lose sight of the actual airframe as a row of trees to the Northeast of the FOB blocked my view. I could now only see the tail of the aircraft. I believe I saw the tail dip slightly to the right indicating a minor turn in that direction. The tail was barely visible when I saw the flash and subsequent fireball rise approximately 200 feet above the Pentagon. There was a large explosion noise and the low frequency sound echo that comes with this type of sound. Associated with that was the increase in air pressure, momentarily, like a small gust of wind. For those formerly in the military, it sounded like a 2000lb bomb going off roughly ½ mile in front of you. At once there was a huge cloud of black smoke that rose several hundred feet up. Elapsed time from hearing the initial noise to when I saw the impact flash was between 12 and 15 seconds.

The Reaction

Many of the FOB people had been looking at the news reports flowing out of the attack on the World Trade Center Towers, going about their normal work routine as they watched. Maybe half or a bit more already knew of the New York attacks. However, within seconds of the impact -- less than a minute after the FOB flyover-- several thousand people started exiting the FOB.



More accounts of it coming over the Navy Annex:

QUOTE
Michael Dobbs: "I was looking out the window and saw it come right over the Navy annex at a slow angle."



QUOTE
On the surface, the security issue sounds prudent. The MDA sits atop a hill overlooking the Pentagon in a facility historically known as the Navy Annex. My office overlooked the side of the Pentagon that was struck by the airliner flown by the Sept. 11 terrorists. That jet flew over the Navy Annex before crashing into the Pentagon. While moving the MDA outside the Washington metro area may make sense, widely dispersing its employees does not.
http://www.space.com/spacenews/archive05/S...pEd_070505.html


QUOTE
The Navy Annex Building on Columbia Pike in Arlington, Va., was the last sight some of the passengers on American Airlines Flight 77 saw before it sliced into the Pentagon on 11 September. With its landing gear down, the Boeing 757 flew so low that it shook the Annex and rattled windows. The Marines inside the Annex thought a freight train had passed overhead...It will never again be "business as usual" for Marines since Flight 77 flew over the Navy Annex Building on 11 September.


QUOTE
Although we did not know it at the time, a hijacked plane was heading directly for our office. Unable to bleed altitude, the terrorists-turned-pilots circled left and made their approach from a different direction, over the Navy Annex and toward the Navy Operations Center. Unknowingly, all of us in the VCNO's office had dodged a bullet; because of Doug Crowder's intervention, I would be dodging two.

http://www.military.com/NewContent/0,13190,NI_One,00.html


QUOTE
I departed my desk at the Navy Annex three months prior to the September attack. In fact, United Airlines flight 77 roared over my former office at less than 100 feet before burrowing itself in the Pentagon.

http://www.usna.com/News_Pubs/Publications...eptMourning.htm


QUOTE
Scott Perry of Spotsylvania County heard a plane's engines rumbling above the Navy Annex building where he works, so he looked out his window, which faces the Pentagon.

http://www.fredericksburg.com/News/FLS/200...0193/index_html


This post has been edited by Aldo Marquis CIT: Apr 14 2008, 03:51 PM
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Craig Ranke CIT
post Apr 13 2008, 05:27 PM
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Yeah this one has been in our faces the whole time.

I think all the attention we brought to the antenna is starting to make it more clear how the plane could NOT have been over the Navy Annex if it followed the official data or physical damage.

This is very important.

Michael Dobb's statement is important too:

"I was looking out the window and saw it come right over the Navy annex at a slow angle."

That is direct support for the NOC bank that Sean Boger reports PROVING the NOC claim.
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painter
post Apr 13 2008, 05:38 PM
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Interesting. And I find this bit of Morin's account also of interest:

QUOTE
Rescue and Recovery

After I shared a couple of things that I had seen to a local law enforcement official -- what I will call a perimeter policeman -- he hustled me off to an FBI agent named Mike. He took what I would call a ¾ statement, then told me to go to the Command Post (CP) and wait. Someone else would want to discuss what I saw. At that point I met a young African American who was standing next to Mike, the FBI agent. He had streaks of blood on his T-shirt and was wearing bandages on both arms. Apparently he had been standing in the Control Tower for the Helo Pad that was approximately 200 feet to the North of the actual impact point. He still looked as though he was in shock, but indicated that he had witnessed the impact. I then confirmed that the aircraft had been flown directly into the Pentagon without hitting the ground first or skipping into the building.
. . .


Source: http://www.coping.org/911/survivor/pentagon.htm
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Craig Ranke CIT
post Apr 13 2008, 05:51 PM
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Yeah that is strange painter.

Sean Boger was the one in the heliport tower and he was not bloodied or bandaged.

Terry Morin must have spoken with someone else plus he would not be able to see the plane enter the building from in front of the Navy Annex.

He is merely relaying what he thought the plane did.
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Aldo Marquis CIT
post Apr 13 2008, 06:13 PM
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This one is kind of iffy, I don't know about this guy...

QUOTE
Steve Storti: as it passed the Navy annex, veer sharply and then slice into the Pentagon.
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painter
post Apr 13 2008, 06:17 PM
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QUOTE (Craig Ranke CIT @ Apr 13 2008, 02:51 PM) *
Yeah that is strange painter.

Sean Boger was the one in the heliport tower and he was not bloodied or bandaged.

Terry Morin must have spoken with someone else plus he would not be able to see the plane enter the building from in front of the Navy Annex.

He is merely relaying what he thought the plane did.


I understand he is relating what he believes was the outcome of previously observed events, not what he actually saw. What I find of special interest is that his statement had been taken by an FBI agent who then apparently escorted him to a "command center" where "Someone else would want to discuss what [he] saw." It being there that he met an apparently injured witness who had been "standing in the Control Tower for the Helo Pad" and who "indicated that he had witnessed the impact."

Get my drift?
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Aldo Marquis CIT
post Apr 13 2008, 08:15 PM
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Foxy and Rob,

Do either of you want to comment on the values represented by Terry Morin?

He estimated that "the aircraft was no more than 100 feet above me (30 to 50 feet above the FOB) in a slight nose down attitude."

He said "it looked like a 737".

He "estimated the aircraft speed at between 350 and 400 knots."

Obviously he placed the aircraft over the Navy Annex.

Comments?
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Aldo Marquis CIT
post Apr 13 2008, 08:16 PM
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QUOTE (Craig Ranke CIT @ Apr 13 2008, 09:51 PM) *
Yeah that is strange painter.

Sean Boger was the one in the heliport tower and he was not bloodied or bandaged.

Terry Morin must have spoken with someone else plus he would not be able to see the plane enter the building from in front of the Navy Annex.

He is merely relaying what he thought the plane did.


Terry Morin was exaggerating Craig. It was Boger.
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Retreat
post Apr 13 2008, 08:52 PM
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QUOTE (Aldo Marquis CIT @ Apr 13 2008, 08:15 PM) *
Foxy and Rob,

Do either of you want to comment on the values represented by Terry Morin?

He estimated that "the aircraft was no more than 100 feet above me (30 to 50 feet above the FOB) in a slight nose down attitude."

He said "it looked like a 737".

He "estimated the aircraft speed at between 350 and 400 knots."

Obviously he placed the aircraft over the Navy Annex.

Comments?


Thank you for recognizing my expertise, Aldo. I am honored to be mentioned in the same address as Rob.

You need to read Morin's account again and redo your drawing. It is not accurate according to what Morin said.
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Aldo Marquis CIT
post Apr 13 2008, 09:33 PM
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QUOTE (foxy @ Apr 14 2008, 01:52 AM) *
Thank you for recognizing my expertise, Aldo. I am honored to be mentioned in the same address as Rob.

You need to read Morin's account again and redo your drawing. It is not accurate according to what Morin said.


I am unaware of your expertise. However, you seem to be interested in the exact flight path and I noticed you were on the thread.

I have read Morin's account and he is very clear, it matches with the north side flight path.

The plane has to be on the south side of Columbia Pike at all times and not over the Navy Annex at all.

He places it over the Navy Annex and clearing the 8th wing, this would line up with all NOC witnesses. Unless you can show me in the official FDR/RADES flight path where the plane clears the 8th wing of the Navy Annex?

Then can you point to where in Terry Morin's account he says he was on the VDOT property when the plane flew "essentially right over the top of him"?

Because according to the FDR/RADES data and the official damage, the plane was over the VDOT parking lot across the street from Terry Morin.

If you have a disagreement, be sure to post it and I am sure I can help clear it up for you.

This post has been edited by Aldo Marquis CIT: Apr 13 2008, 09:39 PM
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Retreat
post Apr 13 2008, 09:57 PM
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QUOTE (Aldo Marquis CIT @ Apr 13 2008, 09:33 PM) *
I am unaware of your expertise. However, you seem to be interested in the exact flight path and I noticed you were on the thread.

I have read Morin's account and he is very clear, it matches with the north side flight path.

The plane has to be on the south side of Columbia Pike at all times and not over the Navy Annex at all.

He places it over the Navy Annex and clearing the 8th wing, this would line up with all NOC witnesses. Unless you can show me in the official FDR/RADES flight path where the plane clears the 8th wing of the Navy Annex?

Then can you point to where in Terry Morin's account he says he was on the VDOT property when the plane flew "essentially right over the top of him"?

Because according to the FDR/RADES data and the official damage, the plane was over the VDOT parking lot across the street from Terry Morin.

If you have a disagreement, be sure to post it and I am sure I can help clear it up for you.


Is your point with this to support the NoC or to discredit the "Official" flight path?

At any rate in order to do either you need to read what the witness said and redraw your diagram, it's wrong.

Since you want to argue this will be my last post in this thread. I know the score here.
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Craig Ranke CIT
post Apr 13 2008, 11:04 PM
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QUOTE (foxy @ Apr 14 2008, 02:57 AM) *
Is your point with this to support the NoC or to discredit the "Official" flight path?

At any rate in order to do either you need to read what the witness said and redraw your diagram, it's wrong.

Since you want to argue this will be my last post in this thread. I know the score here.


He wasn't arguing he was stating facts.

But I am not surprised you have chosen to ignore them and run away from this damaging info.

Discrediting the "official" flight path with the multitude of witnesses who place the plane directly over the Navy Annex most certainly DOES support the NOC flight path.

The fact that Morin was incorrect about it being "parallel" doesn't matter.

Once again we can not expect witnesses to be correct about all specific details.

It's the corroborated general details like the placement of the plane that really matter.

Directly over the Navy Annex destroys the OCT and supports NOC.
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rob balsamo
post Apr 14 2008, 02:28 AM
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When i first read Morins' account about 2 years ago, i didnt realize he was standing in between wings. I figured his account of a 737 holding more weight than others since he is/was a Marine Aviator and is trained in visual aircraft identification. However, now that i know he was in between wings at the Annex, this changes everything.

If he was at the position described, and the plane flew over the top of him as described, he would have a field of view above his head of about 64 feet along his claimed flight path. Based on speed from the Flight Data Recorder, he would have seen the aircraft for ~0.08 of a second or 80 milliseconds. Based on his "estimated" speed, he would have seen the plane for ~0.12 of a second, or 120 milliseconds. The speed of the average blink of an eye is 300-400 milliseconds, or ~.2 to ~.3 seconds longer than the time Morin would have to see this aircraft.
(disclaimer: above numbers are rough estimates and do not take into account length of airframe. Multiply by a factor of ~2.4 if Morin acquired the target as soon as it entered his Field of View. Its still less duration than a blink of an eye)

With that said, i dont think he can accurately determine speed, altitude or type. However, as i said above, it is fatal to the govt story if he places the plane between him and the outer edge, and more consistent with Paik statements. Although, keep in mind that his statement "aircraft was essentially right over the top of me and the outer portion of the FOB" most likely means half the wingspan (fuselage on the line drawn above, right wing tip at outer edge).

I understand what Foxy is trying to get at in that the words "parallel to the outer edge" were used and the above drawn path has it at a slight angle. Based on the estimated calculations above for duration of event specific to Morin, i dont think he can accurately determine angle as well as the other mentioned details above.

Again, the most notable statement from Morin is the fact he places it over the Annex, therefore it is more consistent with Ed Paik and definitely fatal to the govt story.

Hope this helps.
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SPreston
post Apr 14 2008, 10:55 AM
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Since the Navy Annex sits on a hill (141 ft MSL) and the Pentagon sits in a hollow (26 ft MSL) and Morin was several hundred feet back from the edge of the hill with several rows of trees blocking his view and the Pentagon lawn was 115 feet below him with the 757 allegedly flying a level flight path several feet off the lawn, how could he have seen the 45 foot high tail which would have been 32 feet below the 77 foot Pentagon roof? The top of the tail would have been 70 feet below him. However if the decoy aircraft was flying at Pentagon rooftop level, the tail would have been right at eye level to Terry Morin.

Terry Morin - ( here ) former USMC aviator
QUOTE (Aldo Marquis CIT)
Within seconds the plane cleared the 8th Wing of BMDO and was heading directly towards the Pentagon. Engines were at a steady high-pitched whine, indicating to me that the throttles were steady and full. I estimated the aircraft speed at between 350 and 400 knots. The flight path appeared to be deliberate, smooth, and controlled. As the aircraft approached the Pentagon, I saw a minor flash (later found out that the aircraft had sheared off a portion of a highway light pole down on Hwy 110). As the aircraft flew ever lower I started to lose sight of the actual airframe as a row of trees to the Northeast of the FOB blocked my view. I could now only see the tail of the aircraft. I believe I saw the tail dip slightly to the right indicating a minor turn in that direction. The tail was barely visible when I saw the flash and subsequent fireball rise approximately 200 feet above the Pentagon. There was a large explosion noise and the low frequency sound echo that comes with this type of sound. Associated with that was the increase in air pressure, momentarily, like a small gust of wind. For those formerly in the military, it sounded like a 2000 lb bomb going off roughly ½ mile in front of you. At once there was a huge cloud of black smoke that rose several hundred feet up. Elapsed time from hearing the initial noise to when I saw the impact flash was between 12 and 15 seconds.
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painter
post Apr 14 2008, 02:32 PM
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QUOTE (SPreston @ Apr 14 2008, 07:55 AM) *
Since the Navy Annex sits on a hill (141 ft MSL) and the Pentagon sits in a hollow (26 ft MSL) and Morin was several hundred feet back from the edge of the hill with several rows of trees blocking his view and the Pentagon lawn was 115 feet below him with the 757 allegedly flying a level flight path several feet off the lawn, how could he have seen the 45 foot high tail which would have been 32 feet below the 77 foot Pentagon roof? The top of the tail would have been 70 feet below him. However if the decoy aircraft was flying at Pentagon rooftop level, the tail would have been right at eye level to Terry Morin.


Excellent point, Preston. If Terry Morin is telling us the truth, he is a witness to the fly over -- which would explain the FBI's special interest in his observations and the "coincidence" of meeting another, apparently injured witness, who reinforced in Morin's mind the desired impact scenario.
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nicepants
post Apr 14 2008, 03:59 PM
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The image you post does not show a "flight path parallel the outer edge of the FOB" as described by the witness above.
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Craig Ranke CIT
post Apr 14 2008, 04:17 PM
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QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Apr 14 2008, 07:28 AM) *
I understand what Foxy is trying to get at in that the words "parallel to the outer edge" were used and the above drawn path has it at a slight angle. Based on the estimated calculations above for duration of event specific to Morin, i dont think he can accurately determine angle as well as the other mentioned details above.

Again, the most notable statement from Morin is the fact he places it over the Annex, therefore it is more consistent with Ed Paik and definitely fatal to the govt story.

Hope this helps.


Precisely.

Even his "parallel" claim contradicts the official story.

So no matter how you slice it Morin does not support the official story.

Given the fact that the noc flight path requires the plane to fly directly over the Navy Annex as Paik and other witnesses have confirmed that it did.....it makes perfect sense to say that Morin supports the noc path.
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nicepants
post Apr 14 2008, 04:27 PM
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QUOTE (Craig Ranke CIT @ Apr 14 2008, 03:17 PM) *
Precisely.

Even his "parallel" claim contradicts the official story.

So no matter how you slice it Morin does not support the official story.


Given the fact that the noc flight path requires the plane to fly directly over the Navy Annex as Paik and other witnesses have confirmed that it did.....it makes perfect sense to say that Morin supports the noc path.


His statements contradict the "north of citgo" theory as well.
The "parallel" path would put the plane on a trajectory that takes it southeast of the citgo station.

This post has been edited by nicepants: Apr 14 2008, 04:28 PM
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rob balsamo
post Apr 14 2008, 04:35 PM
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QUOTE
As the aircraft flew ever lower I started to lose sight of the actual airframe as a row of trees to the Northeast of the FOB blocked my view. I could now only see the tail of the aircraft. I believe I saw the tail dip slightly to the right indicating a minor turn in that direction. The tail was barely visible when I saw the flash and subsequent fireball rise approximately 200 feet above the Pentagon


Wow, Terry is a witness to the flyover.


The following speaks for itself. Please forgive quality as i just put this together in a few minutes. Feel free to share it. wink.gif

disclaimer - topography and scale are accurate to less than .04% margin for error. Obstacles such as trees as described by Morin are omitted from the following video lending favor to the govt story. Lighting was not complete at time of this production, again, i just put this together quickly for reference. CIT, you will need to expand on this video if you decide to post it elsewhere. (eg, the only way Terry could have seen the tail at time of explosion is if he ran out from in between the wings and saw the tail "flying over" from the angle of the North path)

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Aldo Marquis CIT
post Apr 14 2008, 05:11 PM
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QUOTE (nicepants @ Apr 14 2008, 09:27 PM) *
His statements contradict the "north of citgo" theory as well.
The "parallel" path would put the plane on a trajectory that takes it southeast of the citgo station.



Your interpreting "parallel" much too literally.

Please watch the animation Rob posted to get an idea of what we are talking about.
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