Plate Tectonics And Continental Drift., And I thought I knew all about it... Options

[lunk]

(Remember, there is no such thing as a frictionless bearing.)

If planets are making mass from "nothing" while they move around the sun,
they will hold or increase their orbit.

If they weren't, the greater orbital friction, in the space, around the sun,
would slow them down, and they would fall towards the sun.

This, has not happened,
so all the planets must be growing, in mass, and volume,
because they must increase momentum,
to overcome solar friction.

Accretion, from already existing matter,
would slow a planet down,
in its' orbit about the sun.

This is very good evidence or proof of a growing Earth,
rather that an accreted, then static one.

Does anyone else have a reasonable explanation
of why we are still going around the sun,
after billions of years?

Matter grows out of "nothing" in gravitational centers, and if those gravitational centers are moving, that new created matter within, gives the orbiting body
more momentum, too.

[Tamborine man]

(Remember, there is no such thing as a frictionless bearing.)

If planets are making mass from "nothing" while they move around the sun,
they will hold or increase their orbit.

If they weren't, the greater orbital friction, in the space, around the sun,
would slow them down, and they would fall towards the sun.

This, has not happened,
so all the planets must be growing, in mass, and volume,
because they must increase momentum,
to overcome solar friction.

Accretion, from already existing matter,
would slow a planet down,
in its' orbit about the sun.

This is very good evidence or proof of a growing Earth,
rather that an accreted, then static one.

Does anyone else have a reasonable explanation
of why we are still going around the sun,
after billions of years?

Matter grows out of "nothing" in gravitational centers, and if those gravitational centers are moving, that new created matter within, gives the orbiting body
more momentum, too.

The ether, Lunk, the ether.

Just because you can't see it, doesn't mean it doesn't exist.

Consult the experts in these matters, Lunk.

They know best.


Cheers

[lunk]

Yes, the Aether, the non-interactive point particles.

All planets and stars are made of little tiny atoms.
All the matter in the universe is made out of the same little tiny atoms.

Atoms are made out of these non-interactive point particles,
that are as minuscule, like atoms are, to the universe.

The Aether is also the medium, that light-waves propagate through,
from their source.

It is within gravitational centers, like the Earth, that the Aether is assembled into atoms. If the gravitational center is moving in an orbit, then the atoms created within add to its' momentum, stabilizing or increasing its orbit.

This is where the energy or force comes from,
that keeps everything spinning in the universe.

If it wasn't for this growth from atoms created within gravitational centers,
adding to their momentum and size,
everything in the universe would soon collapse into itself, due to friction.

As there is no such thing as a frictionless bearing!

This post has been edited by lunk: Oct 3 2010, 10:32 AM

Reason for edit: minor word fixes

[lunk]

Where does all the water come from?

This is a common question when it comes to Earth growth.

Sea level is the same altitude world wide, on average.
The surface of the ocean evaporates into the atmosphere.
Evaporation is faster under less atmospheric pressure.
This creates a limit, on the liquid-water level, on the surface of the Earth.
For, if ocean levels were to rise, evaporation would happen faster.
(And if ocean levels were to fall, evaporation would be slower.)
The evaporated water mixes with the atmosphere,
which is sluffed off, by the solar winds.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sIil6IaXLrI
(first 3 seconds)

So, it is the atmospheric pressure that limits, and maintains,
the average sea level world wide.

Water, of course, is being added to the Earth all the time,
but any excess liquid H2O is being sluffed off, into space with the atmosphere, into the solar wind, and replenished through condensation and precipitation.

Don't worry,
more atmosphere is being made, within the Earth, too,
along with other elements.


No, i'm not going to spell it "sloughed",
Sorry, "sluffed" is just better.
cheers

[lunk]

The bug grew on the leaf,
and the leaf grew on the branch,
and the branch grew on the tree
and the tree grew on the Earth.

And the Earth grows round the sun,
and the sun is growing too,
as a galaxy of countless,
ever-growing volumes do.

And we have to think so big,
just to see it all, so small,
then we magnify the eyeball,
of a housefly on the wall,

as it wonders what i'm up to,
when it's looking back at me,
for the smallest thing we know of,
is as far as we can see.

-Infinity.

[lunk]

On the density of space, and growth of matter.

It's the geometry. As soon as one starts on about growth. Volume is the third dimension. It is made from the 2nd dimension, which is made from the 1st dimension, that is made from the zero dimension, the whole point of everything.
But what IS the point,
in this very real universe of dimension, mass and volume?
Doesn't matter FLOAT alone, weightless, in space?!
...i'm so dense sometimes,
but, i can only float, in a denser material, with greater specific gravity, like matter, in space?!

[elreb]

There is a theory that ice ages, are just the poles of the Earth, suddenly moving to different spots on the Earth and staying there for a few millennia, and this can happen so fast, that it could catch a herd of pachyderms grazing, by surprise.

It has taken thousands of years for our human world to build to this level of complexity and reliance on our sophistication of technological advancement, and perhaps it always does, only to be wiped clean by another, regular, predictable, cataclysmic, pole shift.

This is where we should be talking about the next cataclysmic pole shift...

(IMG:http://media.animevice.com/uploads/0/5783/170742-fire_tornado_super.gif) If only we could put all government employees in one pile...

This post has been edited by elreb: Dec 9 2010, 12:04 PM

[lunk]

This is were we should be talking the next cataclysmic pole shift

http://itsrainmakingtime.com/2009/climate-part1/

Listen to the audio, on that page.

i'm still listening right now,
it's about much more than just magnetic pole shifts.

really good listening!

[elreb]

I could agree with Bob Felix in principle. I would support anyone battling “Mainstream Education” but I’m not moving from my “Supernova”. A Supernova hits Earth in seconds…not years…

The underwater volcanoes and ridges add to my belief in an “Expanding Planet” and a hot molten “Iron Core” slowly cooling off. [From the Nuclear reaction of being a former Star]

What is interesting about Milankovitch is he is more accepted on Mars than he is on Earth. Thwarted by political influences …earthlings have a hard time with reality. “God did it” or the “Martians did it”

Who’s your climate buddy…Omega892R09?

(IMG:http://scienceblogs.com/startswithabang/upload/2010/06/measure_the_tilt_of_the_earth/axial-tilt.jpg)

This post has been edited by elreb: Dec 9 2010, 09:18 PM

[lunk]

i've listened through the whole thing.
Perhaps it should be in the climate gate thread.
it's from a year ago, but still was well worth the listen.

Magnetic striping, separate inner cores, pole shifts.

So we should start to see dramatic drops in sea level,
increase in precipitation,
shorter summers,
Also, with the core of the Earth about to flip,
we should see the magnetic field strength decrease,
heating of the oceans,
cooling of equatorial areas,
an possibly the melting of the North pole, and South poles.
An increase in the number of deep earthquakes.

The good news is it won't get much colder, on average.
And there will be livable places left, even in an ice-age.

[Omega892R09]

Who’s your climate buddy…Omega892R09?

You called, or did you just ask lunk a question? Hard to tell. That is an example of the ambiguity that I mentioned in another recent, short, thread.

I could agree with Bob Felix in principle. I would support anyone battling “Mainstream Education”

Please define 'Mainstream Education'. I guess you like broad brushes when you paint too. Whatever, that site lunk has pointed you at looks to be a source of unsound science given some of the names visible there. Read with caution is my advice.

but I’m not moving from my “Supernova”. A Supernova hits Earth in seconds…not years…

'A Supernova hits Earth in seconds…not years'
Huh! Are you familiar with light-years and parsecs? Never mind frigging years.

The underwater volcanoes and ridges add to my belief in an “Expanding Planet”

Well I prefer understanding based on facts to belief any day. Please explain how an expanding planet caused African continental gneiss to make up the top of the Matterhorn, or the peak of Everest to be formed from sedimentary rock and with layers beneath being inverted in geological time order.

But then I doubt that you have read my comments up thread which cover all manner of relevant stuff.

Here is a gift,an illustration that I adapted from a very good book bought for the grand children's enlightenment. (Note, enlightenment, you, with lunk's aid are exploring the darker corners of the Internet):

(IMG:http://lionels.orpheusweb.co.uk/Misc/GeologyGW/GTS2010s.jpg)

Larger version for printing perhaps:

Geological Time Spiral - high res' TIFF

and a hot molten “Iron Core” slowly cooling off. [From the Nuclear reaction of being a former Star]

I'll give you a molten, largely iron core but the heat there is partly from nuclear reactions and partly from the roiling of the mantle and outere core. The friction of dense basalt oceanic floor descending into the depth at Wadati-Benioff Zones also adds heat energy.

These subduction zones are facts and plate tectonics is now scientifically proven fact, just as evolution and the anthropagenic signatures in climate change are. Expanding Earth struggles to get any respect as a mere hypothesis, too many facts do not fit.

What is interesting about Milankovitch is he is more accepted on Mars than he is on Earth. Thwarted by political influences …earthlings have a hard time with reality. “God did it” or the “Martians did it”

You include the word 'reality' in there and that is the only reality about that statement. Milutin Milankovitch is well recognised for describing some of the orbital characteristics of planet Earth. But then, perhaps, by eschewing 'Mainstream Education' you were unaware of that. You would certainly have come across Milankovitch cycles if you had done much study into the drivers of climate change.

It can be remarked with a considerable degree of confidence that we are now in a new epoch - the Anthropocene.

[elreb]

i've listened through the whole thing.

Me too...listening is a wonderful gift.

Dr. Timothy Ball is a renowned environmental consultant and retired climatology professor at the University of Winnipeg. Dr. Ball has a B.A. from the University of Winnipeg, an M.A. from the University of Manitoba in 1970 in Geography, and a Ph.D. in climatology from the University of London, England.

Joseph D’Aleo, executive director of http://icecap.us, was the first Director of Meteorology at the cable TV Weather Channel. A former college professor of meteorology, D’Aleo has served as a member and then chairman of the American Meteorological Society’ Committee on Weather Analysis and Forecasting, and has co-chaired national conferences for both the American Meteorological Society and the National Weather Association.

Robert W. Felix, author of two internationally acclaimed science books - Not by Fire but by Ice and Magnetic Reversals and Evolutionary Leaps - is the host and creator of www.iceagenow.com and www.evolutionaryleaps.com. He has given more than 300 radio interviews in the U.S. and Canada presenting his view that the next ice age could begin any day.


(IMG:http://i412.photobucket.com/albums/pp210/rongrite/breathinlicense2.jpg)

This post has been edited by elreb: Dec 10 2010, 04:16 PM

[lunk]

It's good to be reminded of where most are still at.
The imagination is much vaster than the universe,
and easy to get lost in.
We need the constant reminder of the existing volume of reality,
or we have nothing relative to compare or contrast to.

It's hard to get anywhere in a world,
where one believes,
everything is the same pale shade of pink.

i personally think, (or more actually, have drawn my own conclusion,)
that the only singularity, in the universe, is that conscious awareness, that we are each born with, and consider to be the (temporary?!) root of our self.

From this perspective, there is only one "god"
and from this perspective there is no "other" god.

Both the creationist and the atheist are correct!.

The enemy of both, is a hierarchical system,
that subjugates that one essence, in anybody, to itself,
by tricking them into submission, unknowingly,
through contract.

Strange, but the rulerz of this world know this,
and consider themselves gods.

And those "gods" are battling each and every individual.

Yep, cosmic forces are at work.

...and they don't want us to be "nice" to each other.

[lunk]

As for plate tectonics, and continental drift...
versus the growing Earth/universe theory.

i think that it is growth when water turns to steam.
And i find it rather peculiar,
that we find about the same ratio of electron weight,
to a proton.
Steam and water?
Space and matter?
Volume and weight?
Volumes and gravity?

The shortest distance between 2 points is a line.
What is gravity between planets and moons?

From a point-center of gravity, to a point-center of gravity.
Gravity is a line, in a greater dimension. starting from planetary size.

It's not a magical creation of matter out of nothing,
but a geometrical manifestation from point, to volume,
through which atoms are built from the dark matter in the space,
of the universe.

This takes place around the cores of large gravitational centers,
floating in the space that pours in through them.
And that is where matter, in the form of atoms, grows from,
in the mostly empty space of the universe.

[elreb]

Yep, cosmic forces are at work. ...and they don't want us to be "nice" to each other.

Lectures in the Lyceum

Aristotle's theory of logic completely accounted for the core of deductive inference.

Deductive arguments are attempts to show that a conclusion can follow from a set of premises and becomes valid if the conclusion does follow necessarily from the premises.

Deductive Reasoning is a method of gaining knowledge.

http://books.google.com/books?id=YEw2AAAAM...p;q&f=false

[lunk]

Lectures in the Lyceum

Aristotle's theory of logic completely accounted for the core of deductive inference.

Deductive arguments are attempts to show that a conclusion can follow from a set of premises and becomes valid if the conclusion does follow necessarily from the premises.

Deductive Reasoning is a method of gaining knowledge.

Scientific sudoko.

Determine what is there,
by elimination of all other known possibilities.

Something, must be made out of something,
even if we can not detect that original something.

Mass in space, was built, where?
Out of what?

Logically, if matter exists, and is only found, floating in space,
and it must be made in space. And matter is energy...
So, matter and energy must be made out of something...
hmm, what is left?

Universe minus (matter and energy) equals space.

...but there is nothing in space,
or is there something we just cannot detect?
An undetectable precursor?

The "dark matter" of space.
Mass at undetectable volume.
The infinitely compressible inertia-free points,
making up the space of the universe.
Flowing constantly in,
through any volume of matter floating,
within it.

[elreb]

Scientific sudoko...this can happen so fast, that it could catch a herd of pachyderms grazing, by surprise.

Siberian Mammoth

"Its death must have occurred very quickly after its fall, for we found half-chewed food still in its mouth, between the back teeth and on its tongue, which was in good preservation. The food consisted of leaves and grasses, some of the later carrying seeds. We could tell from these that the mammoth must have come to its miserable end in the autumn."



(IMG:http://www.historyoftheuniverse.com/images/supernova.gif) Well. now we know it was Autumn...when "It" arrived...

[Omega892R09]

Me too...listening is a wonderful gift.

Yes and critical listening is an even more wonderful gift. I would suggest that you study more reliable sources for information on global warming and climate change. Felix's published take on it is a bit like that of Crichton but at least Crichton's 'State of Fear' was sold as fiction which it largely was.

Some of the reviews found at Amazon inform:

By Sarah Harvey (Oakland, CA) - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME) This review is from: Not by Fire but by Ice: Discover What Killed the Dinosaurs...and Why It Could Soon Kill Us (Paperback)
I'm sorry zero stars aren't possible. An early review of this book stated: 'Lots of psuedo-science in this disaster scenario scare book. Author blames magnetic reversals for almost everything; dinosaur extinctions, earthquakes, sea level changes, and most of all ice ages. He mixes enough actual science in to alarm people who are not well read on these subjects. Many scientists and scientific concepts are quoted way out of context to prop up author's theories. For example he confuses nuclear fusion in the sun with the aurora, calling it "miniature atomic explosions". Does he know he causes 'miniature atomic explosions' every time he turns on a flourescent light? Many of his ideas could be shown to be wrong with a couple of magnets on your desk.'

As an informed non-scientist on climate issues, I can only add that Felix's specific ideas on that subject are equally ludicrous. A good place to get the facts on climate is www.realclimate.org, a blog run by actual climate scientists. RealClimate does assume a degree of prior knowledge of climate issues, so for a primer click on "Climate Basics" under Science Links on the right side of the home page.

Some good advice highlighted in red above.

and

By Jorge F. Cossio (Miami, FL) - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME) Amazon Verified Purchase(What's this?)
This review is from: Not by Fire but by Ice: Discover What Killed the Dinosaurs...and Why It Could Soon Kill Us (Paperback)
It is very unfortunate that some people may go to this book searching for " off the beaten track" scientific information. This book does far more damage than good. Some basic facts of science are ignored and readers are given wrong information. For example, ionization is cause by protons colliding with atoms, the splitting of nuclei is caused by protons
, the force that keeps nuclei together is elctromagnetism, the source of solar energy is elctromagnetism, etc., to name just a few.

I could not finish reading this book. If basic scientific knowledge is ignored, what can one expect from the rest?

and

By Cameron B. Mcdonald - See all my reviews
(REAL NAME) This review is from: Not by Fire but by Ice: Discover What Killed the Dinosaurs...and Why It Could Soon Kill Us (Paperback)
There is no accurate science in this book! It saddens me to see the state of our science education and critical thinking ability based on a number of reviews here.

Amen to that.

As for your other two 'heroes', that you mention them tells me that you have either not been involved with study on this topic for very long or would rather muddy the waters for others. Many of the relevant points have already been made on other threads but the most important thing to realise is that there has been tons of smokescreen created by the fossil fuel industry and the think tanks through which funds are distributed to scientific hacks, guns for hire.

Dr. Timothy Ball is a renowned environmental consultant and retired climatology professor at the University of Winnipeg. Dr. Ball has a B.A. from the University of Winnipeg, an M.A. from the University of Manitoba in 1970 in Geography, and a Ph.D. in climatology from the University of London, England.

Tim Ball is renowned alright, renowned for over inflating his credentials and for distorting the science to suit the agenda of his paymasters. See here:

Tim Ball

and

Tim Ball

Ball inflates credentials
Ball and the organizations he is affiliated with have repeatedly made the claim that he is the "first Canadian PhD in climatology." Even further, Ball once claimed he was "one of the first climatology PhD's in the world." As many people have pointed out, there have been many PhD's in the field prior to Ball. His degree was in historical geography, not climatology.

note this:

In 2006 Ball has also questioned the science behind CFC's and the Ozone layer. Ball claimed that "CFC's were never a problem.... it's only because the sun is changing".

Ah! It's not CFCs it's the sun. Sound familiar.


And now in the blue corner (its colder) we have:

Joseph D’Aleo, executive director of http://icecap.us, was the first Director of Meteorology at the cable TV Weather Channel. A former college professor of meteorology, D’Aleo has served as a member and then chairman of the American Meteorological Society’ Committee on Weather Analysis and Forecasting, and has co-chaired national conferences for both the American Meteorological Society and the National Weather Association.

According to:

SourceWatch

D'Aleo's fundamental premise is that although there is a global warming trend there is not a strong causal relationship between that trend and carbon dioxide buildup in the atmosphere. Instead D'Aleo contends that the global warming trend correlates more closely with other phenomena such as solar activity and ocean current oscillations.

On why and how CO2 is currently in the rising temperatures driving seat see, you can download and read PDFs at your leisure:

Global Warming: Understanding the Forecast, Sample Chapters

You should note that solar activity is currently at or near minimum as are the positive forcing factors to do with orbit and rotation of the Earth. When the sun comes oin song again we will be in deep trouble short of sudden outbreaks of globe wide volcanism. Although that latter is not unlikely as ice retreats quickly causing a more rapid redistribution of the isostatic loads on the Earth's crust.

D'Aleo is, of course, one of the founders of the Science and Public Policy Institute

which appears to be a refuge for those trying to distort the science of global warming and climate change, this indicated by the membership:

Willie Soon, Chief Science Adviser
Lord Christopher Monckton (UK)
William Kininmonth, (Australia)
Bob Carter (Australia)
Craig Idso,
David Legates
James J. O'Brien
Joseph D'Aleo

Well, well, well. We do have a fine list there do we not. Soon to be joined by Richard Lindzen, Pat Michaels and Roy Spencer to name but a few others. These are the people so beloved of that assault on language and reason that goes by the name of Marc Morano.

Here FACTSHEET: Joe D'Aleo we learn that D'Aleo enjoys remuneration from the Heartland and Fraser Institutes. Such are the middlemen, tax exempt, organisations, that also include Cato, AEI, CEI, George C Marshall I, that support the activities of rogue elements in the science community who help do the bidding of the likes of the Kochs.

No matter that these clowns try to tell you otherwise there is no such thing as clean coal and tar sands oil is a monstrous assault on the environment leaving lagoons of toxic sludge.

Do you have kids Elreb? If so think of them and carry out honest research on this topic and be wary of the likes who you have promoted in your post here. The danger of people like Felix is that they sound plausible unless you already have a good basis in climate change. They cannot stand up to the type of scrutiny that David Ray Griffin brought to 9/11.

[lunk]

That's quite the system.

Yes, and one is quite right to check the sources,
and source their sources if possible.

However, there always is some truth in everything...
(No matter how large the field, appears to be, around it.)

i could go on about the weather forever.

However, i was thinking more of the center core(s) of the Earth,
and how it was isolated from the crust, somehow,
as both spin, at a different rate of rotation.

Also, as the Earths crust is spinning,
the Earth has a bulge at the Equator.

If it were to stop spinning,
what would happen to that bulge?

in 1859,
a solar storm hit the Earth.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solar_storm_of_1859

Telegraph systems all over Europe and North America failed. Telegraph pylons threw sparks and telegraph paper spontaneously caught fire. Some telegraph systems appeared to continue to send and receive messages despite having been disconnected from their power supplies.

When this happens again,
especially with all the conductive wiring around the world today,
civilization will come to a stand still.

Ice cores show evidence that events of this magnitude – as measured by high-energy proton radiation, not geomagnetic effect – occur approximately once per 500 years, with events >1/5 as large occurring several times per century.

But that's not all.
As magnetism is coming from the core of the Earth (or around the core)
And electricity and magnetism are always found together,
There is a theory that if a CME (or a series of them) were to hit the Earth it could flip the core inside the Earth.

Now, if the core is spinning at the time and it is magnetically flipped, it would be rotating backwards, to the way it is going now.

All the planets have their axis of rotation, on all different angles, like they have all been jostled around in the past.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Planets

Jupiter's axial tilt is very small, so its seasonal variation is minimal; Uranus, on the other hand, has an axial tilt so extreme it is virtually on its side, which means that its hemispheres are either perpetually in sunlight or perpetually in darkness around the time of its solstices

(IMG:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/6/61/AxialTiltObliquity.png)

(edit) added afterthought...

i don't think the angle of rotation of a spinning body can be changed by gravity!

That's the whole thing about gyroscopes, they maintain the same angle of rotation against the influence of gravity. You can move a gyroscope anywhere in space and it maintains the same axis of rotation.

So the only other force, is physical impact, or an electromagnetic pulse,
to overcome the stabilizing gyroscopic angle of rotation!

Imagine, a giant planet cutting through the solar system, it may move the planets around, but they would maintain their axis of rotation.
But, if a super-magnet came through our solar system the same way,
All the planets with strong magnetic fields may turn and point their magnetic poles towards it.

No, i don't think it was a giant magnet,
but giant CMEs of charged particles, hitting the planets, from the sun, causing auroras and EMPs, this re-orientates the core of the Earth or any planet that has a strong magnetic field, to spin on different angles.

How else could nearly all the planets have different angles of rotation to the solar plain?

[elreb]

.
However, there always is some truth in everything...
(No matter how large the field, appears to be, around it.)

Lunk, you have never steered me wrong …

Robert Felix, Timothy Ball and Joe D’Aleo are spot on and I have recommended them to my three children who are all college graduates.

You were also correct with Neal Adams and his expanding Earth…And you were again correct with your “Cheeseburger” world…

As a certified Knight of the “Order of Non-normal”…”Elreb” welcomes you to our society…

You are “Officially” promoted to "Knights Companion" of the “Order of Non-normal”…

(IMG:http://res.images.picsquare.com/images/dp/C040/C0400101_1783.jpg) Our motto is “piss=off”…