What Hit The Pentagon? Nothing., Listened to this yesterday Options

[dMz]

This makes Norman Minetta's testimony ("the plane is 10 miles out, do the orders still stand....."blah, blah) a blatant piece of disinfo. No wonder he looked so nervous.
.... What do you think?

Hi ogrady,

IMO the plane(s) could well have been 50, 30, 10 miles out on FAA and/or USAF radar and still flown over, or altered course to miss the wall, or have been spoofed "blips", or ?? I'm not ready to call disinfo on Norman Mineta's testimony just yet (was that under oath for a Congressional Committee?). He might have looked nervous because he knew it was "career suicide" to say so [or maybe he feared a Chenian DC "suicide" like recently made news (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif) ].

[SPreston]

I've been thinking. I saw a website (unfortunately, can't remember the name or location at the moment - I'll have to search) which showed how the holes created in the Pentagon's rings were identical to charges used by the military to make holes in buildings through which they could launch attacks. (I'll get back on this when I find it.)

I now really believe that nothing hit the Pentagon. There was an explosion/bomb. This makes Norman Minetta's testimony ("the plane is 10 miles out, do the orders still stand....."blah, blah) a blatant piece of disinfo. No wonder he looked so nervous. Also, the much viewed 5 frames of video, meant to suggest (no doubt) a missile, and the many 'accidental' missile mistakes (most notably, Rumsfeld's) that we viewed in the press. More disinfo to distract us.

If April is correct, the frame of an object entering the field of vision must have been a CGI. What do you think?

We did a thread on the Military Rapid Wall Breaching Kit based on some pretty good research by Russell Pickering over at LC forum here.

(IMG:http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x180/T-Guide/exit_hole3.jpg)

Rapid Wall Breaching Kit

Hole breach is centered between columns - Bricks are blown to right of alleged aircraft angle of flight path
(IMG:http://www.mindswell.org/pentag1.jpg) (IMG:http://www.mediacen.navy.mil/pubs/allhands/nov01/war18sm.jpg)

The No Parking sign survived the impact of a fuselage nose cone or landing gear or jet engine allegedly impacting the
entire interior wall, while a Rapid Wall Breaching Kit would only exert force on the portion of the wall targeted leaving
the No Parking sign un-touched
(IMG:http://www.serendipity.li/wot/exit2.jpg)

[dMz]

Hole breach is centered between columns - Bricks are blown to right of alleged aircraft angle of flight path

Exactly. As an aside, an HE warhead denonation could also cause the bricks to migrate outside the wall. Hydrostatic shock "waves" in terminal ballistics are a notable exception in fluid-filled objects (I've got a really cool picture of a rifle bullet "exploding" an apple that is inconsistent with the above).

The No Parking sign survived the impact of a fuselage nose cone or landing gear or jet engine allegedly impacting the entire interior wall, while a Rapid Wall Breaching Kit would only exert force on the portion of the wall targeted leaving the No Parking sign un-touched.

Again, exactly as any "good little" [focused blast wave] shaped charge would be expected to do.

Why again haven't we seen any photos of the "holes" in 3 of 4 brick walls that should be in the outer two rings in order to reach the wall shown in SPreston's excellent photos above??

EDIT: In the photo with the "respirator guy" note the broken windows on the floor above. SPreston, have you got a high-res version of this one handy? The upper panes are broken only on the upper left of 3 second story windows visible. Going off memory [Please DO NOT quote me here as my references are elsewhere, and I'm not certain I should list them anyway in the interests of public safety- I can actually understand a "need to know" when it comes to HE], high explosive pressure waves decrease approximately with 1/distance^3. To me this indicates an overpressure detonation "wave" that was higher pressure near the 2nd story floor than near the 2nd story ceiling, especially above/left of the "impact" hole. In laymans terms: based on the observed damage in these photos above, IMHO an explosive device or devices was/were inside the First Floor C-ring, with blast center a little left of the hole's center, but stairwells, furniture placement, or floor "venting" could explain some of this "offset."

Of course I'm not Gene Corley, FEMA, or ASCE (strangely, they were at WTC, the Pentagon, and OKC, you know).

This post has been edited by dMole: Feb 27 2009, 05:09 PM

[SPreston]

EDIT: In the photo with the "respirator guy" note the broken windows on the floor above. SPreston, have you got a high-res version of this one handy?

(IMG:http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg274/sap-guy/punchoutwheel2.jpg)

No, sorry I do not. However this photo might be of some help here or this photo here or here or here

[dMz]

Thank you immensely SPreston, and I found what I was looking for there- unfortunately-- I've "smoked" too many guns today for my comfort...

HINTS: AEDrive1.jpeg, AEDrive2.jpeg

Does anyone have labeled versions of the above [or similar] photos? [C ring-inner, C ring-outer, B-ring inner, etc.]

Those MSM/DC dogs just don' hunt...

[SPreston]

Thank you immensely SPreston, and I found what I was looking for there- unfortunately-- I've "smoked" too many guns today for my comfort...

HINTS: AEDrive1.jpeg, AEDrive2.jpeg

Does anyone have labeled versions of the above [or similar] photos? [C ring-inner, C ring-outer, B-ring inner, etc.]

Those MSM/DC dogs just don' hunt...

(IMG:http://911research.wtc7.net/sept11/victims/docs/pentagon_victims.jpg)

(IMG:http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h279/hatenames/pent3rdfloorvictim1.jpg)

(IMG:http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h279/hatenames/pent3rdfloorvictim2.jpg)

(IMG:http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h279/hatenames/pent3rdfloorvictim3.jpg)

Sorry to get a little off subject, but exactly how could the DNA of this alleged Flight 77 passenger officially get into the open area between D-Ring and C-Ring on the 3rd floor? In the photo below, there appears to be no breach in the 3rd floor and no visible damage of any sort in that area. The windows appear unbroken. ( here and here and here ) There is a short length of a white something near that location. How would her DNA survive the alleged firestorm and claimed fuel/air explosions inside the 1st floor and somehow move through two solid concrete floors to arrive on the 3rd floor in this open area? Proof of faked DNA sampling?

Don't forget that her DNA would have been originally as alleged, inside the sealed fuselage of an aircraft, with no massive objects inside the fuselage with her to carry DNA tissue through to the A&E Drive nor to the 3rd floor. The massive engines would have been out on the wings and the massive landing gear would have been below the fuselage and below the alleged passengers. The fuel would be below the fuselage and inside the wings, if one was foolish enough to believe that an aircraft actually hit the Pentagon.


(IMG:http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/17.jpg)

This post has been edited by SPreston: May 15 2008, 11:26 AM

[dMz]

I went looking for a Pentagon map in the pinned sections and didn't find it.

http://www.hqda.army.mil/aoguide/Pentagon_Map.htm

PDF [with strange "anti-North" rotation]
http://www.dtic.mil/ref/html/Welcome/PDFs/Pent.pdf

Pentagon dimension info [height 77 ft 3.5 in/24m, wall length 921 ft/281m]:
http://renovation.pentagon.mil/history-features.htm

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Pentagon

These links above probably should be pinned somewhere close for reference.
-----
SPreston's photos and DNA question above set me to thinking.

OK, it's too late to edit my earlier post, but the 3 of 4 walls that I was referring to are in the D and E (outermost two) rings, with "OPEN AREAS" that I'll call "Open Area CD" and "Open Area DE" in the "flight" path as I understand the Pentagon map(s).

I'll predict that the "debunkers" will claim that AA77 flew through these "OPEN AREAS" and that's why you don't find evidence of holes in D-inner, D-outer, and [pre-collapse] E-inner walls. If you search carefully, you can find a pre-collapse picture of that [16 ft?] hole in the [lower 2? floors of the] E-outer (Western perimeter) wall. It might be time to get a scale analysis of those Pentagon window sizes soon.

Problem for "debunkers": those are load bearing brick walls- just because you don't see the brick walls in the roofed-over? 2 story "open areas" in the photos above does NOT mean that there were not brick walls there. What else would hold up the 3rd, 4th, and 5th floor brick walls that we can see as rows of windows in SPreston's [more recent excellent] photos.

Now is that C-outer? hole right of the No Parking sign bigger or smaller than the pre-collapse E-outer hole? Why didn't the D-ring or the "open areas" collapse if the D-ring had 2 "punch holes" similar to those in the collapsed E-ring? I don't have [non-speculative] answers here, but neither does the OCT. The C-ring is a poor location to take the "hole evidence" photo IMHO. The DoD/US Navy captured a little more in those "evidence" photos than they intended, I believe...

I do not believe that a wall breaching charge was the only thing used in the C and E ring damage/destruction, based upon the photos above. Knowing how brick/mortar buildings react to "seismic" events is also helpful while looking at the broken windows in the C-ring photo.

I'm pretty new to the Pentagon investigations- who is our resident researcher on Pentagon "bomb" eyewitnesses, and how many of them are there?

On the white object seen in "Open Area CD" in SPreston's DNA question that looks to be about "window"-length- I'll guess it is a piece of roof "flashing" (commonly either galvanized steel or aluminum) glinting in the sun, and that it was loosened by whatever caused the E-ring collapse. Maybe not.

Good work men. [And women of P4911T too- it's an old inside joke- no sexism intended]

This post has been edited by dMole: May 15 2008, 05:30 PM

[SPreston]

1st and 2nd floors open with columns supporting overhead floor slab
(IMG:http://bp3.blogger.com/_PcI9awojNLQ/Rw23ndNXF0I/AAAAAAAAA1s/-5JPmJyHmuo/s400/x_asce_033.jpg) (IMG:http://renovation.pentagon.mil/IMAGES/W1barebones-half.jpg)

As I understand the building structure, there are no walls in the 1st story area between the alleged entry hole in E-Ring outer and alleged Exit Hole in C-Ring inner. There are only columns supporting the floor slab of the story above. As you can see in the photo, there are five stories in the A&E drive ( C-B ) and only three stories in the openings ( D-C and E-D ). There is a concrete floor slab between the 1st and 2nd stories and the 2nd and 3rd stories. In the opening where that shiny piece of roof flashing is laying and allegedly the DNA of Norma Lang Steuerle was found, that is the 3rd story floor slab. In the diagram above, the 2nd story floor slab was displaced in one area by an explosion. I have not read anywhere that the 3rd story floor slab was displaced or penetrated. So how did her DNA get on top of the 3rd story floor slab since it was supposedly sealed inside the fuselage as it burrowed through the alleged entry hole at 535 mph? Most of the passenger DNA was allegedly found out near the A&E Drive Exit Hole in the 1st floor area. So apparently the sealed fuselage containing the passenger bodies allegedly made it inside the 1st floor area. Of course since the aircraft has been proven above the Navy Annex, there is no chance of the aircraft returning to the official flight path and entering the Pentagon along the official damage path.

The circle contained most of the passenger remains, which indicates the fuselage allegedly made it to C-ring — intact!
(IMG:http://911exposed.org/ASCE%20remains2.jpg)

Alleged DNA locations
(IMG:http://i56.photobucket.com/albums/g171/boloboffin2/911/Pentagonfatalities-full.jpg)

(IMG:http://www.geoffmetcalf.com/pentagon/images/17.jpg)

[dMz]

Thank you for the "Open Area" correction SPreston,

Have you got any specifics on these "Open Area" support columns then [dimensions, materials, spacing, etc.]? I've looked closer at the Towers [as they were pretty damned impressive engineering in their own right and there was much more "evidence" on WTC2] and the aircraft.

Thanks all for being parts of a great team. It is a both a challenge and a pleasure to be among such fine individuals.

d

[SPreston]

Thank you for the "Open Area" correction SPreston,

Have you got any specifics on these "Open Area" support columns then [dimensions, materials, spacing, etc.]? I've looked closer at the Towers [as they were pretty damned impressive engineering in their own right and there was much more "evidence" on WTC2] and the aircraft.

Thanks all for being parts of a great team. It is a both a challenge and a pleasure to be among such fine individuals.

d

You are quite welcome d. No I do not, but I will include a few links below which might help. We enjoy and appreciate your fine input also.
SP

I did find this, but the accuracy may be incorrect.

Relevant dimensions of Pentagon (Infoplease, 2003)

height of building: 23.6 m (77′ 3″)
inter-window distance: 3.1 m (10′ 2″) (derived)
inter-column distance: 3.1 m (10′ 2″) (derived)

This is an official diagram of the 1st floor from the Pentagon book. here
1st floor Pentagon diagram here

(IMG:http://911files.info/77/pentagon_911_book/roof_damage.jpg)

Pentagon book photos here

Arrogant Deception - Or an Attempt to Expose a Cover-up?

THE PENTAGON BUILDING PERFORMANCE REPORT pages 5-9

This post has been edited by SPreston: May 16 2008, 03:15 AM

[Ricochet]

http://www.pentagonresearch.com/062.html

[dMz]

Thanks Rico and SP.

One not-so important question- WHY_TF? are so many Pentagon maps and diagrams oriented with North anywhere but "up?" I don't think that the magnetic declination is anywhere near 70-130 degrees clockwise in DC... I know it is one politically-screwed-up place but jeebus... (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/rolleyes.gif)

We really need to gather all these "Pentagram" reference links together somewhere really close and pin that bad boy, no? [or did I miss it?]

EDIT: SP- my other links above gave a height of 77 feet 3.5 inches so your source at 77' 3" height is probably "close enough" on those windows. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

EDIT2: References collected at:
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....showtopic=13365

This post has been edited by dMole: Sep 27 2008, 07:43 PM

[dMz]

Watch from about 05:45-06:00 onward in this Mythbusters video clip. This is purportedly a shaped C4 (mainly RDX) charge breaching a cinder block wall.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U_XdOmShVhI

Does that bright orange HE blast look familiar to anyone?

(IMG:http://i66.photobucket.com/albums/h279/hatenames/pentagonvideojudicialwatchpt1_0002.jpg)

EDIT: A C4 shaped charge applied to 1.5" steel plate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LudNqf56AFo

More on C4 (~91% RDX)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/C-4_(explosive)

http://science.howstuffworks.com/c-4.htm/printable

Reason for edit: Added west Pentagon photo

[Omega892R09]

EDIT: A C4 shaped charge applied to 1.5" steel plate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LudNqf56AFo

This is something I, and many around here, have appreciated for some time.

It is my firm belief that there were numerous shaped charges deployed that day the shapes of which could have been rather more complex than a pipe with a copper cone inserted.

It would be easy to deploy such devices under cover of building maintenance and upgrades with those whose places of work these building were being totally oblivious to the true nature of the work. Thus months, even years, of preparation could be clandestinely carried out. This destroys one of the BIG arguments of those who support the OCT.

Another fact that counters much OCT preacher BS is that the explosive used is 'insensitive to impact' so you could hit a building prep'd with this stuff with a truck, or an aircraft, and it will not detonate until programmed to do so.

Note that a very small charge of P4/C4 used in this way could cut through about 6 inches of steel.

[dMz]

I was just recovering some spreadsheet results from a computer crash and noticed something on the Auxiliary Power Unit that would be related to any alleged "data gaps" in the SSFDR.

At 09:37:44 EDT, the APU BATT showed 27.6 VDC, with APU BATT ranging from [27.5-27.6 VDC] for the entire flight, with an average voltage of 27.57470 V with SD=0.04349 VDC.

Also the APU Load ranged from 1.8 to 2% for the entire flight.

These numbers were all from the "AA77_tabular.csv" file decoded from the "raw" file provided by NTSB (see pinned threads in AA77 and Pentagon sections for more information here).
------
The largest accelerometer values that I found so far were at 09:37:42.375 [extrapolated assuming 8 Hz vertical acceleration sampling rate], where a_lon = 0.177 g, a_vert = 1.753 g, and a_lat = -0.081 g

[dMz]

Exactly. If this were a "penetration impact" caused by a hypothetical radome [ or nosecone, unless it was a military craft] , or a nose wheel, or [apparently a single-WTF?] turbofan core, or what have you, shouldn't the bricks be INSIDE the C-ring? Watch your local news for one of those "car hits house" bits and look at the debris field (it's called the Law of Conservation of Momentum if anyone is interested). As an aside, an HE warhead detonation could also cause the bricks to migrate outside the wall.

...
Of course I'm not Gene Corley, FEMA, or ASCE (strangely, they were at WTC, the Pentagon, and OKC, you know).

Courtesy of one of the "prominent" Randiite "debunkers:"

(IMG:http://img292.imageshack.us/img292/6853/carbrickwallnz4.th.jpg) (IMG:http://img292.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif)

(IMG:http://img152.imageshack.us/img152/7478/carbrickwall2oq0.th.jpg) (IMG:http://img152.imageshack.us/images/thpix.gif)

Also, I recently read that Gene Corley was part of the Waco, TX FBI/BATF/Delta Force Davidian "cleanup." [cough * cough * Corley's resume * cough]

http://www.ctlgroup.com/files/dynamic_resu...RRES%200131.pdf

[Omega892R09]

Also, I recently read that Gene Corley was part of the Waco, TX FBI/BATF/Delta Force Davidian "cleanup." [cough * cough * Corley's resume * cough]

And lest we forget, Corley was also involved in the Murrah building cover up:

http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/W.-Gene-Corley

[dMz]

Would anyone like to post wall-LABELED, directional photos for the Pentagon, this many years later?

EDIT: Here are some Pentagon "damage path" resources:

http://www.kolumbus.fi/sy-k/pentagon/asce_en.htm

DoD Press Release
http://cryptome.sabotage.org/dod091501.htm

Official DoD website with photos and PowerPoint presentation:

http://www.defenselink.mil/news/briefingsl...fingslideid=129

http://www.defenselink.mil/dodcmsshare/bri...70C-003.jpg.JPG
(IMG:http://www.defenselink.mil/dodcmsshare/briefingslide12920307-D-6570C-003.jpg.JPG)

http://www.defenselink.mil/dodcmsshare/bri...70C-008.jpg.JPG
(IMG:http://www.defenselink.mil/dodcmsshare/briefingslide12920307-D-6570C-008.jpg.JPG)

Fairly good diagram from Washington Post
http://911review.com/attack/pentagon/imgs/...avy_command.gif

(IMG:http://911review.com/attack/pentagon/imgs/pentagon_navy_command.gif)

[madtruth]

This recent article caught my eye, because this eyewitness is one of the Israeli art student spy's



http://onlinejournal.com/artman/publish/article_4210.shtml



Mossad’s modus operandi exposed -- from art students to kiosk operators

By Wayne Madsen
Online Journal Contributing Writer


Jan 8, 2009, 00:24




(WMR) -- On December 19, 2008, WMR reported on the 9/11-related activities of an Israeli “art student” in the United States. The art students were suspected by federal law enforcement and U.S. intelligence agencies of being Israeli spies.

WMR reported that a ”female Israeli ‘art student’ who lived on an Israeli kibbutz for a year and who is also a British national, told our source in London that in the weeks prior to 9/11 she was ‘selling art in Washington [DC]. Before her arrival in Washington, the Israeli art student said she was in the San Francisco Bay Area attending college as an “art student” but denied selling any art while in the Bay Area. She also said she spent some time in South Carolina prior to 9/11.

A leaked Drug Enforcement Administration (DEA) report on the activities of Israeli art students prior to 9/11 revealed that female Israeli art students were active in Palo Alto and Fresno.

The British-Israeli art student said that on the morning of 9/11 she was standing outside the Pentagon. She admitted she never saw a plane hit the building but saw a huge ‘hole’ in the building after an explosion.


The art student also said that she was in Times Square in New York the next day, September 12, attending a memorial service for the 9/11 victims. She said she had a ticket to fly out of New York’s John F. Kennedy Airport on September 12 but that because commercial planes were grounded she had to find another way to leave the country.

The art student sad she ‘had to get out’ of the United States because she did not have a proper visa to continue working in the United States. She said she left the United States over the Canadian border. When quizzed why she left so quickly after 9/11, the art student replied that she ‘had to leave cause the United States Government thought Israelis had something to do with 9/11.’”

WMR has learned that the one-time Israeli art student who was active in selling art in the months preceding 9/11 and was outside the Pentagon on the morning of 9/11 is now operating two market kiosks in London that primarily sell women’s handbags. They are situated in Notting Hill and Camden in two neighborhoods where a number of people from Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Arab countries reside.

On December 31, 2008, two Israelis who worked in a hair products kiosk at the Rosengaard Mall in Odense, Denmark, on the island of Funen, were shot and slightly wounded by a Danish assailant who was born in Lebanon and was of Palestinian origin. One of the Israelis owned the kiosk, which sold Dead Sea hair and skin care products, a usual front for Israeli intelligence operations. Apparently, the Israelis’ activities had caught the attention of Middle Eastern youth in Odense days before the shooting and the two Israelis had been harassed. The Danish Security and Intelligence Service was reported to have been notified about the incident by Odense police. The two Israelis, in their 20s, had only been in Denmark for about a week.

Israeli charge d’affaires Dan Oryan said it was disturbing that the two Israelis were targeted merely because they were Israelis. Oryan’s reaction is in keeping with other Israeli denials and obfuscation that their young nationals are engaged in intelligence operations while masquerading as art students, mall kiosk vendors, and moving company employees.

The National Security Agency (NSA) and other U.S. intelligence agencies have warned that Israeli mall kiosks are suspected Israeli intelligence fronts. However, in bust after bust, the Immigration and Customs Enforcement (ICE) bureau of the Homeland Security Department, headed by Israeli agent-of-influence Michael Chertoff, merely deports Israelis who work illegally on tourist visas.

No Israelis are ever charged with espionage or other major crimes in a trial.

Israeli national Ohad Cohen entered the United States multiple times in 2004 to manage kiosks and supervise other Israelis, all working in the United States illegally, at Oakview Mall in Omaha and Gateway Westfield Mall in Lincoln, Nebraska. Nine Israelis were arrested and all were deported without a trial. Cohen was forced to forfeit over $35,000 he made from kiosk sales in Nebraska.

In December 2004, the FBI and ICE arrested 15 Israelis at various Minnesota mall kiosks for selling illegally copied electronic games software. Yonatan Cohen was charged with illegal copyright violations. Also in 1994, ICE agents arrested three Israelis working at a mall kiosk in Grand Forks, North Dakota. Grand Forks and Omaha are home to major Air Force bases.

On October 31, 2001, nine Israelis were arrested by Immigration and Naturalization Service agents while working at a Toledo, Ohio, area mall kiosk selling Israeli toy helicopters called “Zoom Copters.” Seven Israelis were released but two, Yaniv Hani and Oren Behr, were deemed “special interest” cases in a federal law enforcement probe of terrorism activities and the 9/11 attack. Hani and Behr told the Associated Press that FBI agents asked them if they were spies for the Israeli government. FBI agents also asked the Israelis detailed questions about their Israeli military service.

Mark Regev, then a spokesperson for the Israeli embassy in Washington and now a shill for the government of Israel in Jerusalem, denied that any Israelis arrested in the United States were espionage agents.

After 9/11, some 30 Israelis were arrested in St. Louis, Kansas City, and Columbia, Missouri, for being in the United States illegally. Other Israeli kiosk workers were detained in California. The Israelis said they were hired by a Miami Beach-based company called Quality Sales to work at shopping mall kiosks in Missouri.

Previously published in the Wayne Madsen Report.

Copyright © 2008 WayneMadenReport.com

Wayne Madsen is a Washington, DC-based investigative journalist and nationally-distributed columnist. He is the editor and publisher of the Wayne Madsen Report (subscription required).

Copyright © 1998-2007 Online Journal
Email Online Journal Editor

[Ricochet]

I have always been suspitious of this beltway killer sceario. http://www.fbi.gov/page2/oct07/snipers102207.html
It happened at the right time between 10/2 and 10/24 (arrest of stupes) to ram the so called US PATRIOT act to pass and signed into law by shrub on 10/26. The hole in the trunk above the license plate would not be high enough to sight a .223 Bushmaster through, only large enough to stick the barrel out. I have a background in shooting competitions and it would be impossible to use this weapon from a trunk of a car with that small of an opening with any sort of accuracy. Use logic when dealing with these people, it was a black op.