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Aa11 And Rades Anomalies, Strange things found in the USAF 84 RADES data

dMz
post May 31 2008, 01:35 PM
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To get independent verification of my results, I would like to post the following "interesting" portions of the USAF 84 RADES data for AA11 (from the .XLS spreadsheet, not the R3 Software). FEMA/ASCE and NTSB tell us that no SSFDR or CVR were recovered in Manhattan for either AA11 or UA175, so RADES is effectively the only data that we have for these 2 flights (not counting "video" and eyewitnesses of course).

As a quick review, speed = distance/time. V_mo for a B767 is 360 knots. M_mo for a B767 is 0.86 mach (but that's a little more complicated). 1 hour is 3600 seconds. RADES data has lat/lon data as well as time stamps, and a distance calculator can be found at:

http://williams.best.vwh.net/gccalc.htm

NOTE: Average velocities are based upon lat/lon, radar "sweep" interval, and Spherical Law of Cosines (for distance- mine is in a pretty trigonometry-intensive spreadsheet BTW). Also the Zulu time that I used in my calculations has greater precision than these "rough" timestamps posted here- that will affect velocity estimates considerably on this brief time interval. All of the below data were returns at the RIV RADES station.

EDIT: I added the actual "Zulu time" intervals "dt=" below for the readers' convenience.

AA11 was allegedly B767-223ER #N334AA B# 22332, GE CF6-80A2, Mode 3A 1443 off 08:20:38

"Interesting" velocities were found at:
8:07:04, N42.2723, W -71.1702, dt= 11.960 sec
8:07:16, N42.2817 -71.2125, v~590.59 knots (kts)

8:19:38, N42.5918 -73.0896, dt= 11.920 sec
8:19:50, N42.6013 -73.1289, v~552.15 kts

8:21:38, N42.6918 -73.3966, dt= 12.050 sec
8:21:50, N42.6993 -73.4409, v~599.32 kts

8:22:38, N42.7455 -73.5468, dt= 12.050 sec
8:22:50, N42.7510 -73.5933, v~620.40 kts

8:23:26, N42.7844 -73.6735, dt= 11.960 sec
8:23:38, N42.7892 -73.7175, v~589.99 kts

8:24:26, N42.8376 -73.8166, dt= 12.145 sec
8:24:38, N42.8411 -73.8676, v~668.46 kts

8:25:02, N42.8684 -73.9097, dt= 11.950 sec
8:25:14, N42.8717 -73.9576, v~637.78 kts

8:28:02, N42.7343 -74.1823, dt= 12.145 sec
8:28:14, N42.7059 -74.1954, v~533.67 kts

8:29:50, N42.4988 -74.2031, dt= 11.930 sec
8:30:02, N42.4678 -74.1981, v~565.61 kts

8:30:14, N42.4445 -74.1850, dt= 12.056 sec
8:30:26, N42.4120 -74.1822, v~583.85 kts

8:31:26, N42.2805 -74.1186, dt= 11.942 sec
8:31:38, N42.2509 -74.1102, v~547.44 kts

8:32:02, N42.1971 -74.0840, dt= 11.945 sec
8:32:14, N42.1649 -74.0797, v~585.51 kts

8:32:26, N42.1393 -74.0644, dt= 12.126 sec
8:32:38, N42.1090 -74.0519, v~564.81 kts

8:33:14, N42.0302 -74.0074, dt= 11.935 sec
8:33:25, N42.0007 -74.0014, v~540.32 kts

I have independently verified some of the distances/velocities manually using a GC calculator and found agreement within 1% for my spreadsheet approximation values.

Summary: I did not list the "borderline" velocities between 0.86M-0.91M above. I found 27 "interval" velocities over 0.86M, 14 velocities over the presumed 0.91M flight test limit, and 5 velocities over 1.0M. The speeds of sound that I calculated (vary with altitude) and ranged from approx. 580-592 knots for the above data.

The overall average radar return interval was 12.262 seconds with a standard deviation of 2.157325163 seconds for the entire data set. There were several "missed" returns that gave 24 second or 36 second time intervals, my spreadsheet velocity approximations already take these into account, and they didn't really affect the above "interesting" velocities anyway.

If I take the average of the "interesting velocity" region that the above data were selected from, then I get an average radar sweep interval of 12.07284 seconds with a standard deviation of 1.04873 seconds.

Related UA175 thread is at:
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10742683

This post has been edited by dMole: May 31 2008, 02:52 PM
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achimspok
post Aug 25 2009, 06:20 PM
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I found some interesting things in the Rades radar data also.
According to the seismic records the plane hit at 08:46:26

The last blip for AA11 came at 08:45:48
altitude = 2000ft = 610m
speed = 486.6 mph (accelerating) = 217.5 m/s
angle = 2.7 downwards (leveling)
distance to the WTC1 = 10.515 ft = 3205m (over ground)

The plane disappeared from the radar screen 38 seconds prior to the impact.
elevation impact hole = 1158 ft = 353 m
The vertical angle and distance fit but
the Rades plane should have reached the impact hole in about 15 seconds but headed in a (assuming no failure) wrong direction.

Either the plane stood 23 seconds in the sky and waited for the right moment or ...?

A very similar failure was found in the data of UA175 but while the data for AA11 are seemingly displaced to the south the data for UA175 are seemingly displaced to the north.

Both together look like planes ahead and above the hitting planes.
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achimspok
post Sep 17 2009, 09:12 PM
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There is another very strange thing to know about the Rades data especially the last 3 sweeps of UA175.


Between the last two sweeps the plane descended at av. 60 m/s. During the preceding 12 sec time interval the "Rades plane" descended at av. 10 m/s.

a = ( ve - v0 ) / t

5.2 seconds freefall would accelerate the plane from 10m/s to 60m/s but the plane would have to accelerate a lot more to reach an average of 60m/s during the last 12 seconds covered by the radar data.

Was it a huge failure of the radar data or just a pilot-beginner who was able to execute a precise turn after at least 5 seconds of weightlessness in a Boeing at an "unheard" speed? ...risking the plane ...risking the plot?

This post has been edited by achimspok: Sep 17 2009, 09:21 PM
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dMz
post Sep 18 2009, 01:57 AM
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QUOTE (achimspok @ Sep 17 2009, 07:12 PM) *
Between the last two sweeps the plane descended at av. 60 m/s. During the preceding 12 sec time interval the "Rades plane" descended at av. 10 m/s.

Could you please clarify achimspok, since there seems to be a disconnect "of ambiguity"?

the plane == WHAT plane again? dunno.gif
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achimspok
post Sep 18 2009, 12:28 PM
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Oh, sorry, the last post was about UA175. Strange anyway.
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poppyburner
post Jan 25 2014, 03:21 AM
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QUOTE (dMole @ May 31 2008, 05:35 PM) *
8:24:26, N42.8376 -73.8166, dt= 12.145 sec
8:24:38, N42.8411 -73.8676, v~668.46 kts


769.25003 mph, when it was flying passed Albany???

'Boeing 767-200 Specifications ... 767-200ER
...
Maximum speed (km/h) 910 [565.44778 mph.]'


~ http://www.airlines-inform.com/commercial-...ng-767-200.html

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