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The Dragon Blood-line

post Jun 24 2008, 11:38 AM
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Here in Japan, people count things in 10's, it's an overwhelmingly metric country. Makes sense, we all have 10 fingers to count with. In the States, or in Britain I would assume, you buy a dozen donuts. 12 hours on the clock. 12 months in a year, 12 inches in a foot.

It would never have dawned on me that this was out of the ordinary, were I not living in Japan where nothing is counted by 12's. The number 13 crops up sometimes as well, actually there are 13 lunar cycles in a year. 13 original colonies, 13 stripes on the flag, 13 rows of bricks on the pyramid on the back of the dollar, 13 arrows in the Eagle's clutches (all obstensibly derived from the number of original colonies, but was it really all coincidence?). Also, there are 12 member banks in the Federal Reserve system, 12 stars on the EU flag. 12, or 13, depending on how you count, tribes of Israel. Jesus had 12 disciples. 4 suits in a deck of cards (the seasons?), each with 13 cards, bringing the deck total to 52 (52 weeks in a year??). And, apparently, there are 13 ruling families in the Illuminati, or 12 or 13 "Illuminati" heads.

Or what I don't know, but having listened to a radio interview given by George Szymanski with a woman who apparently has escaped from the Illuminati cult who calls herself "Svali", I'm all ears. Szymanski claims to have also talked to another woman in Italy 25 years ago who also escaped from the same cult, from whom he says he heard similar stories. That woman later committed suicide, succesfully on the third attempt. (Illuminati members, according to info posted by "Svali" on another website, are meticulously programmed from infancy, and committing suicide if they ever try to leave the "family" is one of the things that are imprinted onto their psyche.)

Here is a link to a site where you can get some brief info about who Svali is, and a link to her interview with George Szymanski.


I was always skeptical of this talk of the "Illuminati". Even Svali seems to prefer to refer to the orginization as the "family" or by other terms. There's just so much crap on the web, I'm just immediately turned off by these green-text over black-background websites covered with skulls and references to Satan in every paragraph.

One of the things that trips people up though, I think, is the word "Lucifer". Even Svali states in her interview with Szymanski that "Luciferianism" and Satanic worship are entirely different - I'm adding in my own commentary here, but Lucifer is another name for the planet Venus - the morning star, or harbinger of the coming sunrise ... hence the connection to "Illumination".

But hey, far be it for me to want to moderate on behalf of the people who are trying to rule the world and extinguish the spirit of Liberty in America, and around the world for that matter. These are evil people ... but only from the viewpoint of those of us who think of good and evil in accepted, normal terms.

CIA posted this in a thread in the lobby about the Vatican, and I'm finally going to respond with what I will post here subsequently over the coming days or weeks.

QUOTE (CocaineImportAgency @ Jun 27 2008, 10:04 PM) *
...i try and get my head around this stuff as best i can!... but there is something that bugs me that i cant ... or dont know how to... explain!

...Isreal, Gods chosen people etc etc!.... is a kind of decoy!?... its focusing our attention away from Egypt!?... Egypt is the key to unlock our questions!.... probably think i`m nuts or thick!? dunno.gif

One repeatedly reads (if they delve into this long enough) about these Illuminatti or British and European royalty claiming Mesopotamian roots. Then you have the first written texts of antiquity, cuneiform, which were found in Mesopotamia. There are step pyramids (Ziggurats actually) all around modern Iraq and Iran - even a famous one in Ur (Mesopotamia, or more correctly, Sumer, the birthplace of Abraham). Shall I say it .... civilization eminated from Sumer - it didn't just spring up in Egypt and the Indus Valley after that coincidentally, what would be the chances of that? So it's no surprise that pagan traditions and beliefs in far flung places would be similar.

WTF am I talking about!?? I wish I could shell it out in one post ... but it's too deep, there is just too much information.

But to elicit some interest, there are 12 constellations - through which the sun moves about, as per the theory forwarded in the Zeitgeist movie. Yes, sun worship is a big part of all this pagan stuff. But there is another way of looking at it I think, there is Draco, the dragon, I like to think of it as the 13th constellation, smack dab in the middle of these other 12 constellations, at true theoretical north (i.e. directly north if you correct for the earth's slow wobble). I will attempt to show that this identity of the dragon was adopted by the elite of early western civilization, which emenated from Sumer (identified also as Mesopotamia, Chaldea), and that these people, possessing superior ship-building, weapon-making, architectural and organizational expertise, were able to conquer indiginous peoples just about wherever they went. They left their mark from Egypt to Greece to France to Scandinavia to Britain to China ... And, if we try, we can trace their steps practically to the White House.

I decided not to post this in the religion section - because this has very little to do with religion actually ... at least not monotheistic religion. And since I seriously doubt there are too many hard-core pagans out there reading who I might offend, I'm just gonna stick this in 'research'.

More to come. For now, the stars. The pink circle in the image at the bottom of this post is the course the earth's axis traces as it wobbles - each precession from zodiacal age to age takes 2150 years, so for the earth to complete this wobble and come back to the same axial place takes a little over 25 thousand years. At the moment the north star is Polaris, but a few thousand years ago it was Thuban ...as the earth slowly "wobbles" the current north-star changes.

For anyone who has seen Zeitgeist, it should be plain that the ancient Egyptians understood this wobble of the earth's axis, and the precession of the ages. We are now in the age of Pieces, have been since around the time of Christ, and will be until 2150. That's why born-agains stick a fish on the back of their cars (without knowing why), it's why the pope's mitre looks like a fish's head when you look at it from the side.

(This is covered more or less in Zeitgeist.)

But what is amazing is that people thousands of years ago had a handle on this slow wobble of the earth's axis, the precession through the constellations as it were, and knew where true north was ... that is, north if you correct for this wobble, and that they saw a dragon there and identified themselves with it.

(While I've removed many stars and constellations for clarity, the relative positions of the stars below are correct and un-altered.)

(12 + 1 = 13)
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post Jun 26 2008, 12:41 PM
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9/11 was, for me, a window into what some people like to refer to as the "rabbit hole". The most dissapointing part of this journey was, as it is for everyone I'm sure, at the beginning, when we first realize we've all been lied to all of our lives, that "history" as we were taught was little more than a fairy tale, that the true nature of the world has been hidden from us from the get-go. Therein my (unending lol) search for what was real and what was B.S. began.

First, I learned that the salesmen of the Iraq war (the Neoconservatives), who most likely were involved in the planning of 9/11, had been planning their "war on terror" for a good decade before Bush was elected president, the policy making posts of whos administration they quickly filled after he was "elected".

Then I learned about the Federal Reserve and the bankers who schemed to appropriate the US economy and political system a full century ago. But even the discovery of this and the myriad of ways that these banking and industrialist families have been able to sink their claws into America (the Council on Foreign Relations, the CIA, control of the mainstream media, etc.) and the world at large left many questions unanswered in my mind, and clues kept taking me farther and farther back into history.

I thought maybe I had touched the bottom of the rabbit hole when the trail led to the world's first bankers, the Templar knights of a thousand years ago, especially when I learned that their ancestral home in London, the Crown Temple Church, evolved into an institution (embodied in many buildings in or on the outskirts of the 'City of London') which currently houses the International Bar Association. The original Templar church is but a short walk from the Bank of England, and I realized that the world's banking and legal institutions evolved over the last millenium hand in hand ... but the questions kept coming - for example, the power of the Crown was handed over to the pope right around the time the Templars were getting established, yet it is universally said that the power of the Crown resides in The City (of London) ... how? Why? Just because the Templars were the pope's militia??? That didn't make any sense (and to this day I have yet to figure that little mystery out). Anyway, the various questions I had weren't answered by the things I learned about the Templars, in fact my questions became more numerous, nothing made sense.

Soon I was in Biblical territory looking for the keys that would make all of the puzzle pieces fit, when I stumbled on to the theory that the Hebrews of Israel and the Hyksos kings of Egypt were of the same stock, indeed, there is a documentary out there called "Ring of Power" that proposes that the "Exodus" of the Bible and the expulsion of the Hyksos from Egypt were one and the same event. ... But still the questions kept coming faster than the answers.

How far do we have to go back to really understand the people who would perpetrate something as audacious as 9/11 in order to start a pseudo-religious war in ancient Mesopotamia, in order to ring in their vision of one world government?

I can't say for sure, nor can anyone not truly on the inside and in the know ... but many clues I've run across in my search point to Mesopotamia 5000 years ago being the source.

Here is an interesting article that places the fixing of the original 48 constellations at a latitude consistent with Sumer (and too high to be Egypt, too low to be Greece), and at a time around 2700 - 2900 BC.


There is a circle of about 36° radius in the southern part of the sky which does not contain any of the original 48 constellations. That implies that the originators of the constellations lived at about 36° north latitude because at that location, exactly such an area of southern sky would be invisible to them. Moreover, the center of that circle moves very slowly through the sky because of the motion of the earth's axis. The location of the center of the empty part of the sky implies an origin date of about 2900 B.C.

...Many of the constellations are tipped at an angle to the natural directions of north, east, south and west. If one asks if there was a time and place when they would have all been much aligned vertically and horizontally, the answer is, about 2900 B.C.

...Using statistical methods, it has been found that Aratus was describing the stars at a latitude of about 36° (within about 2°) at about 2600 B.C. (within 800 years).

Latitude 36° is too far north for Egypt, and too far south for the Greeks, but perfect on both counts for Sumeria

I promised, perhaps foolishly, that the crux of this topic would not be religion. However, I think a good place to start might be the Megen David, or Seal of Solomon, an ancient pagan symbol. This connects squarely with Freemasonry, as we shall see. It should be noted that the 6-pointed star has only been used exclusively as a symbol of Judeaism for a little over a century. It has been a staple of Mason symbology however for much longer, and it's no coincidence that the ritual of the 3rd degree of Masonry is based on the story of Hiram Abiff, the Master Architect of Solomon's temple.

Here you find the Seal of Solomon adorning the Grand Lodge of Denmark

Theosophical Society Lodge

Rennes-le-Chateau in France

Notice the snake which forms a ring around the Symbol of Solomon on the Theosophical Society Lodge logo. In addition to the significance of the serpent, which will become more and more apparent, the fact that it is eating its tail signifies the endlessness of time, and can be traced back to at least ancient Egyptian symbology. Also notice that the two triangles are interconnected, the Symbol of Solomon is commonly represented this way in Freemasonry (for a significant reason).

Here's a little page about the Rennes-le-Chateau.

You can see that this castle is connected with the Templar knights and was dedicated to Mary Magdalene in the 11th century. Before moving along here's a geneology chart. Solid red lines indicate direct descendent (daughter or son), dotted red lines indicate direct descendency over more than one generation. Circles indicate marriages.


Toward the right halfway down you'll find a guy, Theoderic IV, or Rabbi Makhir, Exilarch of Babylon. Which of these people married Aldana, the daughter of Charles Martel, or if Rabbi Makhir took the Frankish name of Theoderic and the two are one and the same person is disputed - and quite controversial.

"The Kalonymus of Narbonne
In 787, Charlemagne sought to buttress his southerly defences against Islam with a buffer-state He wished them to be independent of the Rabbinical influences of Islamic Spain, so he applied to the Caliph of Baghdad for a leader qualified to command their loyalty. The Caliph sent him Makhir."

If you look at who the children of this controversial person were and how their blood fed into the major houses of France, you will understand why it is so controversial if Theoderic was really Makhir - for Makhir was supposed to be descended from King David of the Israelite line of kings.

The area Rabbi Makhir ruled was called Septemania (also known as Languedoc), on the French Mediterranean coast, and his descendents and followers, known as the Cathars, came to be numerous in nearby Toulouse and Aquitaine. About a third of the way down this page you can read about the Cathars ... quite the pagans.

I don't know how big a grain of salt to take that descrïption of them, but the association of the Troubadors of Aquitaine with "courtly love" is legendary, and the crusader William IX "the Troubador" was one of the Dukes of Aquitaine show above.

But let's get back to the Magen David.

I mentioned that it's use a symbol of Judeaism is fairly recent. I've found some spotty instances of Jewish use of the symbol during the middle ages, but the Star of David didn't gain acceptance as a specifically Jewish symbol until the late 19th century, correlating with it's adoption by the Zionist Congress in 1897 (from what I've been able to dig up).

One place however that the Magen David or Seal of Solomon was used which predates any wide use in association with Judeaism (apart from its use by Solomon of course), is on the Great Seal of the United States. We are all familiar with the all-seeing-eye on the reverse side of the seal, on the obvserse side above the eagle is a "glory" of stars arranged in a hexagram.

If anyone has any doubt that this is the Seal of Solomon or not, before 1841 the stars in the glory were all 6-pointed stars as you can see.

Why is this included in the Great Seal? I don't really know why the founders included it ... except to say that Franklin (who was a Mason) and Jefferson, both of whom were on the first committee to design the Great Seal, both suggested designs for the reverse side of the seal that depicted the Israelite's exodus from Egypt, ostensibly to signify triumph over tyranny.

There are a number of theories of the meaning behind the hexagram or Megen David, one being: "that during the Bar Kochba rebellion (1st century), a new technology was developed for shields, which used the inherent stability of the triangle. Behind the shield were two interlocking triangles, forming a hexagonal pattern of support points. " Or, "the Star of David comprises two of the three letters in the name David. In its Hebrew spelling, it contains only three characters, two of which are "D" (or "Dalet", in Hebrew). In ancient times, this letter was written in a form much like a triangle, similar to the Greek letter Delta ...The symbol may have been a simple family crest formed by flipping and juxtaposing the two most prominent letters in the name."

There is another interpretation, one relevant to this story, that the two superimposed triangles represent, depending on what you read, good and evil, male and female, spiritual vs. physical, fire and water, and in all cases the superimposition of opposites. This is the interpretation that is relevant to our purposes IMO, and this is why in Masonry the two triangles are interweaved. Good and evil, male and female or like dichotemy, combined into one entity. This, by the way, is the pagan interpretation (if you hadn't guessed).

Before the emergence of monotheistic religions, the way I understand it, paganistic beliefs generally revolved around male and female entities, or, physical and spiritual counterparts, or, a god of the heavens/weather etc. along with a counterpart goddess of the earth/vegetation etc.

Some of their names:

"Father/heaven" ---------"Mother/earth"
Anu --------------------------- Ki
Uranus ----------------------- Gaia
Enlil -------------------------- Ea / Enki
Ba'al --------------------------Asherah
El Shaddai------------------- Adon
Arhiman -------------------- Mazda
Osiris ------------------------ Isis

I'm no expert on a lot of this this stuff, so if I stumble or mis-state I hope someone will correct me. But this early pagan belief system is most certainly rooted in ancient Sumer (Mesopotamia). This is located BTW in modern day Iraq between and around the Euphrates and the Tigris rivers near where they empty out into the Persian Gulf. Later in history this area came to be called Chaldea, where Kabbalah followers were prevalent. Kabbalah: (I just copied this from a dictionary) - "A body of mystical teachings... often based on an esoteric interpretation of the Hebrew scrïptures. A secret doctrine resembling these teachings." You may have noticed that Kabbala was mentioned in that descrïption of the Cathars I linked to. Chaldea, Egypt and Greece are usually cited as the centers of Kabbalah teaching, I agree with the view that Chaldea was the source. (The Persians were said to have found the Chaldeans "versed in all forms of incantation, sorcery, witchcraft, and the magical arts." Madonna is (and Britney Spears was up until a year ago) on a Kabbalah kick btw.

This "mystery school", or Gnostic teachings associated with Kabbalah is also tied to the traditions of Catharism. The Templars were apparently Cathars while the Merovingian Kings who united France before them were probably pagans even after the conversion of Clovis I ... although the Templars and Merovingians hid their pagan tendencies and maintained tentative alliances with the Catholic Church. The Merovingians were replaced by the Carolingians eventually, who enjoyed the full support of Rome, although Merovingian blood probably continued into that line through Charles Martel's son Pepin's wife Bertrada De Leon. The Templars were eventually expunged, their leaders burned at the stake in the 14th Century, like the Cathars before them. The survivors fled and took refuge in Portugal, Spain, Scotland and probably Switzerland. From Portugal and Spain they proceeded to explore the globe as the Knights of Christ and other orders, in Scotland they stayed underground until the 17th century when, once the Catholic Church had lost all authority in the British Isles, began to come out of the closet under the guise of Freemasonry. (In the meantime they and their Dutch cousins had established the British and Dutch East India Companies - picking up where their Portugese and Spanish bretheren left off before they too were purged from those countries during the Spanish Inquisition!!???? ... food for thought.)

EDIT: In this and the previous post, I claim or imply that western dominating civilization (as we know it) got started in Sumer and fanned out from there. This is what historians tell us, and that well may be the case, but in writing the following posts I have run across some things that have led me to the conclusion that this didn't happen in a vaccuum, that Sumer and the other centers of develpment (Egypt, Indus Valley, Scythia, etc.) had been in existence and in contact with one another far longer than we are led to believe.
[The Sumerian priest-kings were descended from the Ubaid, who had had a long established kingdom centered in the Carpathian basin. Archeologists have uncovered finds in modern Romania, which include cuniform tablets on which, it seems, are written proto-Sumerian texts pre-dating the earliest Sumerian cuniform stones. Also, burial sites uncovered all over Asia are starting to provide a solid basis for the idea that Sumer, until recently thought to be the birth of civilization, was just where refugees from the Ubaid kingdom of what would be known as Scythia, relocated after, possibly, a Black Sea flood. We read about the "Royal Scythians" - but don't know quite what to make of them, as they weren't mentioned much in the history of the world we were taught. However they, these 'Ubaid' (proto-Royal-Scythians), apparently preceded the "birth of civilization" in Sumer, and archeological finds more and more support this.]
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post Jun 30 2008, 01:05 PM
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Here's an unexpected place to find the Seal of Solomon or 6 pointed star...

This folks, is the flag of Northern Ireland. What the!?? What's the six-pointed star doing there?? - actually, there is a very good reason for it being there, which has almost nothing to do with Judaeism..

It is accepted thought that civilzation as we know it sprang from Sumer, in lower Mesopotamia, 5 or 6 thousand years ago, give or take. I even posted an article above that claims to show that the original (ancient 48) constellations must have been settled on from a latitude consistent with Sumer at around that time, and I don't doubt it. But after looking long and hard at this, I'm of the mind that civilization, as it has come to evolve into what we are stuck with these days, grew and percolated and developed in a number of locations simultaneously, and that the exchange of goods and ideas between all of these cultures was far more extensive, and went on far longer, than one would think. The areas I'm talking about are Sumer, Egypt, the Indus Valley, Britain (specifically Ireland), Scythia (a wide swath of land around and above the Black and Caspian Seas), and the entire area north Mesopotamia in and around southern Turkey and the Levant, including the lands of the Amorites, Akkadians, Hittites, Hurrians and most importantly the Phoenicians.

It's tempting to imagine that an advanced civilization just sprang up suddenly in Sumer (after the flood?) and fanned out from there, in fact it's sort of the accepted wisdom ... and this view has led some to embrace a lot of what I consider nonsense, that gods, or even aliens from another planet (called Nibiru), came down from the heavens and mated with Sumerian women, giving rise to super-humans and "poof", we had pyramids and roads and irrigation and weapons. But I just wanna go on record that I don't buy any of that for a second, I don't think "fallen angels" were the patriarchs of the Sumerians, even if the Sumerians thought so. And I don't buy into David Icke's "Lizard-people" nonsense either, even if this thread is titled the "Dragon Blood-line". (Although I concede that Dick Cheney may well have some reptillian DNA in him tongue.gif ).

What really happened looks to be far more interesting IMO, though really hard to figure out. I don't really have a handle on it (and I may never) - but to me it's too pertinent to what's going on in the world today to not at least attempt to post whatever I can dig up.

I first got curious about the Indus Valley after I started stumbling on all this "dragon stuff" that pointed to Sumer, and I recalled that the dragon was always used in reference to the Chinese throne. I though, nawwwh, there can't be a connection, can there? But then I though that in China and here in Japan as well the 12 signs of the Zodiac are the same as in the west ... but I again thought, nawwh, they just got that from us. But then I remembered the 12 year cycles that the Japanese and Chinese follow (not recognized in the west), each year designated by a boar or a chicken or a monkey (or a dragon), etc. Then I found out that there are Ziggurats, or step pyramids, in China, lots of them. (There are hundreds all over modern Iraq and Iran, not to mention the ones in Mexico and Central America - and of course the great pyramids in Egypt.)

Ziggurats (Pyramids) in China

Ziggurat at Ur (Sumer)

It turns out that the Chinese drew much of their culture from the Indus Valley, who traded with the Sumerians for centuries (if not millenium) before what we consider the peak of Sumerian culture.

This page talks about ancient import-export "seals", ones from the Indus Valley found in Sumer and vice versa. What's interesting about these seals, is they were imprinted in clay using metal cylinders onto which the desired image and text was etched in reverse ... i.e., printing. (!) Guttenberg, what took you so long??


Note that the Indus settlements aren't all that far from Sumer. Dilmun, which some believe refered to modern Bahrain, was mentioned in texts as the location of the Sumerian creation myth, where Enki provided water creating a paradise (which only the gods inhabited). According to this (below) and other sources, this Dilmun, or Tilmun, was also an important trading partner between Sumer and the Indus Valley, providing among other things, copper from Omar which was needed to make bronze. (I've also read though that the Sumerians obtained copper from Turkey to the north).


One other thing I find interesting btw, is the extraordinary development going on in Dubai these days. Halliburton has even moved it's headquarters there I think. Well, Dubai is right down the coast from Dilmun, home of the ancient Sumerian gods as it were (if, the real location for Dilmun was actually modern Bahrain).

The Sumerians also traded with Egypt, with the Phoenicians (or Canaanites), who inhabited the area in between, often playing middle man ... and all three cultures clearly influenced one another. I even read somewhere that there was a Sumerian ghetto nestled somewhere in one of the Nile settlements, but I don't remember where. Anyway,

Farming had been developed along the Nile by about 5000 B.C., but some
time before 3200 B.C. economic development accelerated, in part because of
growing trade with other regions including Mesopotamia.

The Sumerian god An had two sons Enki and Enlil who ruled over the air and water, in Canaan the couterpart of An was Dagon, who's son Baal was preiminent, in Egypt Osiris and Isis begot Horus ... the stories and names of dieties vary, but there are clear parallels between familial dieties who take on certain duties in the various cultures, and sometimes there are stiking similarities, for example, Ninhursag, the Sumerian mother-goddess, was Ninurta in Canaan. There are many many more parallels, but I gotta tell ya I get all confused with all these deities, maybe I'll organize something and post it later. One thing I did find quite interesting though, is that there were 12 supreme Gods in the Sumerian pantheon ... and the same number in Greece much later, 6 male and 6 female. Which is no surprise really, although Greek culture didn't derive directly from Sumer, it derived more from Phoenicia and Minoa, who both got it from Sumer - or more correctly, they all developed in tandem over a long period as they were trading with one another ... and with Egypt, and with the Indus Valley, and even the Druids (I am discovering), and Greece got it later, second hand as it were. That's really my point.

Also, the dragon, a mythological beast of course, is conspicuous in ALL of these cultures. I should emphasize that the dragon is historically not a manevolent entity at all - it represents knowlege, life, sometimes other meanings are attached, and most often, royalty. This

with two serpents coiled around a rod has been associated with medicine for almost as long as the dragon has been associated with healing and life-giving powers.

Another interesting tidbit which harkens back to the dragon is that the Egyptian pharaohs were anointed with the fat of a holy crocodile, or "meseh". Apparently, we get our word "messiah", or anointed one, from this word. Sir Laurence Gardner, a Fellow of the Society of Antiquaries of Scotland who has published a few books on grail-lore and other topics sort of related to this thread (I'm sure I'll be quoting him), claims that the ancient Sumerian kings were also anointed with the fat of a crocodile, though I can't find any confirmation of this. I can't help but recall though that the kings of medieval france were anointed with the "oil of Clovis", Clovis being one of the first Merovingian kings (who's grand-father was a sea-serpent if I remember correctly), the oil being supplied from heaven (I'll get into the Merovingians later).

I ended my last post with a teaser relating to Scotland, and the Tribe of Dan, and started this post with the flag of North Ireland. I don't mean to be coy, but it's a difficult topic. I thought I needed to cover some ground with regard to Sumer and the other civilizations that were percolating at the time (some thousands of years ago), and their pagan similarities. The fact is, there was an invasion of sorts (non-violent) into Ireland by a peoples known as the Tuatha De Danaan about 2000 BC . Tuatha means tribe in this case. De means gods. Danaan means?? Who knows. Lots of people say that this Tuatha De Danaan are the Tribe of Dan ... I don't think the two are the same, but I'm open to the idea that they are connected. The Tribe of Dan is also often accused of being the Danaus who made their presence felt in Greece ... I'm of the opinion that the Danaus too are a separate entity from the Tribe of Dan, but connected ...


The Tribe of Dan

The British-Israeli movement is cited for adding support early in the 20th century to the idea of creating a Jewish homeland in Palestine, land which England had just wrested from the Ottoman Empire (Turks) at the end of WWI - and wrested again from the Arabs they had promised independence to in return for fighting on their behalf. What the British-Israelists believe, is that Bretons (or at least British nobility) are descended (to some degree) from the Israelites. One of the notions that they promote is that the tribe of Dan migrated to the British Isles, leaving their name all over the place along the way. The full import of this assertion can only be fully appreciated if you allow for the absence of vowels in ancient Hebrew. Dan, Din, Don, Dun, all the same - and if you look at maps and start thinking about it, D-n is everywhere. The Don, the Dneiper, Dnestr, Donetz, Danube (all rivers eminating from the Black Sea), ScanDiNavia, MaceDoNia, the Dinaric Alps, and Denmark to name a few. There were a "tower building" people called the Shardana, who dominated SarDiNia and Corsica for centuries - the term "sar" or "shar" in Hebrew apparently means "chief," "prince," "ruler," from which such words as "Tsar," "Caesar," "Kaiser," etc., derive. The "Shar-Dana," then translates into chiefs or princes of Dan. The name seems to be everywhere in Ireland and Scotland too - Dunvegan, Dunkeld, AberDeeN, EDiNburg, LonDoNderry, Dunglow, Donegal, Dingle, Dungarvan, in fact the penninsula jutting off the west of England used to be called Danmoni - or the "mines of Dan" ... tin mines in this case.

Are these "marks of Dan" all over Europe really significant, or more the fanciful thinking of some British nobles? There are two separate issues here, were the Tuatha De Danaan and the tribe of Dan the same? And can the same be said for the Danaus of Greece ? (And more interestingly, is there some underlying factor that unites all three that we have missed?)

A lot of people think the British-Israeli propoganda is bunk, and as the whole idea is agenda driven and I too am skeptical. But with regard to the Danaus of Greece, there are some interesting clues lying around...

Homer called the Greeks "Danois".

Petavius says that Danaus was the son of Bela - who was a sojourner in Egypt - and fled with his tribe to Greece - settling near Argos, a century before the Exodus.

Danau/Danaus' "patriarch" is cited alternately as Belus, Belos, or Bela. Who is Belus?

"Belus (Greek?) the Egyptian is in Greek Mythology a son of Poseidon by Libya. He was a King of Egypt and father of Aegyptus and Danaus."

Another thing I stumbled on to (can't find it) said that Belus was an Egyptian King (does this mean he was a Pharaoh? If so, I have to figure out which one...), who sired two sons Aegyptus and Danaus ... his son Danaus ruled LIBYA. Is this why in Greek mythology Belus' mother is described as Libya?

One more:
The ancient Greek records of Hecateus of Abdera, a Greek historian and philosopher of the 4th century B.C., say: “The most distinguished of the expelled foreigners followed Danaus and Cadmus from Egypt; but the greater number were led by Moses into Judæa.”

There's a (torturously long but interesting) documentary floating around titled Ring of Power (which talks about the Tribe of Dan btw), that makes a case, and a pretty good one IMO, that the Hebrews and the Hapiru of Egypt were one and the same, and that the Hyksos kings (in and around the 15th dynasty) were of this stock. This may or not be true, I have no idea, but the Hyksos were thrown out of Egypt (around 1500 BC give or take?) ... right around the time of Moses. Also consider that Canaan was under Egyptian control around the time of the Exodus and that the names of Egyptian Pharaohs are almost entirely (and strangely) left out of the Bible.

Speaking of the Bible, let's look at the Biblical Dan for a second. Dan and Nephtali were full brothers, sons of Jacob by a handmaiden named Bilhah. Remembering that Hebrew is written (someone please correct me if I'm wrong) without vowels, could Bilhah somehow represent Bela/Belus??? Bela was supposedly Danaus' father in Greek mythology, whereas Bilhah was Dan's mother in the bible. Yet, if one allows for a certain amount of allegory in these stories, it's not so crazy to see a possible connection here.

Note this as well, Dan and Nephtali were represented as full brothers and were closely associated. Dan (in the Bible), despite being the 2nd most populous tribe, recieved a paltry portion of land. They decided to invade Laish (a city near Sidon just north of the Israelite lands), killed all the inhabitants and changed the city's name to Dan. This territory was adjacent to the Nephtali tribe. Other writings say that, much later in history, descendents of the tribes of Dan and Naphtali migrated together first to Scythia (which became Khazaria), then later to Scandinavia, Dan settling in Denmark and Naphtali settling in what is now Norway. It's also suggested that the Sc- in "Scandinavia" derives from Scythia. That the Vikings came from Scythia is widely believed and there's alot of evidence for it. (I've also read in many sources that the "Sc" in Scotland also derives from Scythia, however the story of "Scota", which I'll get into, seems more relevant to me). Point is, the tribes of Dan and Nephtali were apparently closely allied, and maybe were regarded as apart from the other tribes, particularly Dan. In a passage from the Old Testament, the "Song of Deborah", the Tribe of Dan is repremanded for "Remaining in Ships" while the other Israelites fought the Canaanites. I read an interesting analysis of this, where the Canaanites of Sidon and Tyre stood by and allowed the tribe of Dan to sack and take over nearby Laish in a sort of neutrality pact, and later to honor this pact the tribe of Dan remained neutral when the other tribes were battling it out with the Canaanites. (Canaanites and Phoenicians are synonomous - Phoenician being the Greek term for the Canaanites btw.) The salient point though, is that the Tribe of Dan didn't care for the land they were given in the south - they prefered to be up north next to their bretheren the Nephtali.

So, if I'm to try and make this connection between the Israelite Dan and the Egyptian Danaus of Greek legend, then is there a parallel correlation between Nephtali and someone else in the Bela/Belus family of legend?

No. But the name sure sounds alot like "Nephilim". Nephilim were fallen angels, sired by the god Elohim paired with human females (we're talking ancient Sumerian pagan legends here).

I looked up the origins of Naphtali, and here's what I got -

"The name Naphtali is commonly understood to come from patal meaning to twist. Derivatives are cord, thread; (petaltol 1857b), tortuous (Deut 32:5); (naptulim 1857c), wrestlings (Gen 30:8).
Some other occurrences of the verb-plus-nun are: Job 5:13 ...the advice of he cunning (; NAS); and Pr 8:8 ...crooked or perverted (; NAS)."


Then there's this:

"Diodorus Siculus (1.27.28) claims that Belus founded a colony on the river Euphrates and appointed the priests whom the Bablyonians call Chaldeans." (!)

And this:
"Modern writers speculate on a possible connection between Belus and one or another god who bore the common northwest Semitic title Ba‘al."

Ba'al ???

And, the name of one of the "fallen angels" (fathers of the Nephilim) was ... Daniel (Book of Enoch). (!)

One other piece of this puzzle needs to be brought up. The city of Dan was near Tyre, and when Solomon decided to build his temple (oooh, we're getting close to the connection with Freemasonry) he appealed to the King of Tyre, who sent him Hiram. Hiram's mother was from the tribe of Dan, and Hiram's workforce were said to be Phoenicians. Read: Canaanites, the ones around Sidon and Tyre just north of Israel proper - the ones who apparently made a pact with their Dan neighbors ... In fact, the Danaus of Egypt/Greece are also often connected to (or said to BE) Phoenicians! I won't go into the story of Hiram right now, 'cause I'm wearing myself out and you as well I'm sure, other than to say the legend of Hiram, Solomon's master builder, in many respects mirrors that of the Egyptian god Osiris, and that this story and the meaning behind it is part and parcel of the initiation rite of the 3rd degree in Freemasonry.

OK, I'll quit beating around the bush and spit out what it is that I see. Remember, we are talking about two allied tribes that were, at least in the case of Dan, the "black sheep" of the Israelites. Both were descended from sons of Jacob by a handmaiden (i.e. illegitimate) . Try to view these stories as allegorical or coded - indeed the whole study of Kabbalah revolves around coded truths. And let go of the idea that the tribe of Dan was Jewish just because they were one of the Israelite tribes ... Judah was in the far south and the tribes of Dan and Nephtali lived in the far north. The whole story of the Israelites strikes me as a story of a large group of people, related but separated into tribes, struggling with the concept of renouncing pagan gods and idols and accepting monotheism. Solomon's pagan ways illustrates the point I think, and in Revelation Dan is excluded from the list of tribes which are "sealed", specifically they were unworthy because of their "pagan traditions".

In other words, not too put too fine a point on it, the tribe of Dan were solidly pagan - and maybe their descendants sailed or marched out of Egypt and Canaan into Greece, Macedonia, Carthage, Sardinia, and eventually Scandinavia, Denmark (and the British aisles?), overwhelming the indigenous peoples along the way with superior ships, trading and warring finess and knowlege of metalurgy, carrying their pagan beliefs with them wherever they went. Maybe. I'm not convinced, but the ostracising of Dan from the other Israelites, their affinity with Nephtali and the closeness of that word to Nephilim, the fact that one of the fallen angels was named Daniel, their connections to the Phoenicians, the serpent on their flag, all make me wonder if this is not a pagan element more connected to Sumer and a much older pagan tradition than to the Israelites.

This, about an ancient historian, Manetho, who claimed the Hyksos settled in Canaan (further confirmation of the theory put forth in the documentary "Ring of Power", which I mentioned earlier, that the Hapiru and Hyksos kings of Egypt and the Israelites were one and the same), and another historian by the name of Berosus, a priest of Belus, is also very interesting ... remember, Belus was the father of Danaus in Greek legend:

"Manetho, a priest and scribe of Heliopolis, and the Chaldean Berosus, a priest of Belus, both of whom flourished under Ptolemy Philadelphus (285-247), composed accounts in Greek of the history of their respective nations. In the writings of the vanquished to the conquerors, both writers sought to demonstrate that the vanquished peoples were descendents of very ancient and noble civilisations. Berossus, in the Chaldaika to Antiothos I, claimed to base his history on Babylonian astronomical archives 473,000 years old. ... Professor Waddell, in his translation of the works of Manetho [6], said that the works of Berossus and Manetho should be seen principally as expressions of rivalry between Ptolemy and Antiochus, each seeking to proclaim their civilisation the most ancient. "

So Berosus, priest of Belus ("father of Danaus"), was defending his people, a CHALDEAN people, the people to whom Danaus belonged. This is problematic, for the area was not known as Chaldea until the 6th century BC, far too late to be connected with Dan, a (bilblical) son of Jacob. The paradox though is easily resolved, these are references to a "people", refered to as Chaldeans, that long predate the "Chaldean Empire", as I shall show, who's patriarch was Belus, or "Ba'al", the "father" of Dan. These references are never used in connection with Abraham or his descendents, and I believe this distinction is what is meant by Dan being represented as an illegitimate son of Jacob in the Bible.

There's much more, like Cecrops, a half-serpent king of Athens, Athens having just been invaded by the Edoni (e-DON-i) who were (according to the Greeks) descendents of Danp... everywhere I follow the Danau around I see serpents it seems. The story doesn't end with Dan either by any means. I am currently struggling with a book that totally rejects this theory about the tribe of Dan, yet traces bloodlines from ancient Mesopotamia all over Eurasia right into the Royal families of Europe (including the Balkans and parts of Central Asia) and England ... a bloodline he also describes as the "Dragon bloodline".

More about "John's" book and his interesting research later ...
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post Jul 5 2008, 11:29 AM
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I've had a bit of free time lately, and with nothing better to do one day I was glancing over a Sumerian Language FAQ that I had stumbled on to.


This guy is pretty smart, I mean, he speaks Sumerian for heaven's sakes. blink.gif Anyway, there was a question, >"Why can't I find the word Beru? Can the word ever signify a "day" or a "double-day"?

Answer: "That is an Akkadian word. Look in the Sumerian Lexicon under danna in the DAN section. Beru is the Akkadian equivalent, translated 'double-hour; league'."

I about fell off my chair. Not because of the meaning for the words given, but because here an expert on Sumerian language, with no hidden agenda, states in a FAQ that "danna" and "DAN" in Sumerian equate with "Bel" in Akkadian. (I live in Japan where "R"'s and "L"'s are interchangeable ... when I see "beru", I read "Bel". )

Akkadia, or Akkad, BTW, was adjacent to Sumer, between it and Phoenicia. Maybe I oughta post a map, so people can follow...

Apparently my Japanese reading habits weren't misplaced, Wikipedia states that "Bel" derives from the Akkadian "Beru", meaning lord or master. And right next door the Phoenicians were calling their head god "Ba'al", taken from the Akkadian Beru (Bel); father, or mother, depending on which story of antiquity you choose, of Dan or Danaus or Danna. Lest we forget that in Phoenicia the father of Ba'al was Dagon ... All things considered, is it plausible that the Phoenician "Dagon" and our word for dragon are really unrelated? And what of the patriarchal god of the Irish Tuatha De Danaan, "Dagda"? Or, for that matter, the name of two noteable midaeval French kings of the Merovingian line, Dagobert I and Dagobert II?

It must be obvious that the names Dagobert, Dagda, Dagon and dragon are seductively similar. I can hardly believe that Dan and danna in Sumerian were simply a unit of measure ... I suspect an alternate and far less boring meaning was also attached. rolleyes.gif

What meaning is given for the biblical name 'Dan'? It means "Judge", one will read. But there are other words used in the old testament which are more specific to the meaning of "to judge" - in fact, I read that the meaning of the biblical name 'Dan' is closer to "government". Government, Judge, Lord, Master, Bel, Beru, Dan, Danna, Danaan, Danaus, Danois, Dagon, Dagda, Dragon, Serpent.

I think one can see where the idea that a son of Jacob, named Dan, and his followers, took to the sea and single handedly conquered peoples from Greece to Sardinia to Scandinavia to Britain is, well, how shall I put it. Somewhat naive (even though I sort of bought into it for a while), though not totally baseless. A better way to think of it IMO might be, is that the meaning of "Dan" is far more expansive, the tribe of Dan with their serpent banner were just a single manefestation of this wider nexus, and the term Dan and it's variants are code for this pagan heritage.

So what about Britain?


was found in front of the "Newgrange Temple", thought to be 5200 years old, predating the Egyptian pyramids by 500 years.

There are lots more ancient sites of like age in Ireland.

Around 3800 BC neolithic agriculturists began arriving in large numbers. These early farmers were the builders of the famous mounds and passage tombs mentioned above, and which are more densely packed into Ireland than into any other country...

...Portal tombs (or chambers) are claimed to be mainly constructed between 3000 and 2000 BC. The majority of these are found in the north of Ireland, with another concentration of tombs found along a line from Dublin toward Waterford. About 161 Portal tombs, including those more commonly called dolmens, have been found. They are generally classified as above ground burial chambers, consisting of a number of upright stones covered by one of two capstones, and sometimes placed in a long or round mound.


But there's a problem.

The only written records from Ireland that exist are mythological in nature, from records of other cultures historians have put together a cronology that is more or less accepted, describing numerous invasions by peoples known (in order) as the Partholonians, the Nemedians, the Formorians, the Tuatha De Danaan, and finally the Celts. (The druids, as I understand it, were an elite caste of priests who's presence overlaps these periods.) The problem is, the Irish neolithic sites pre-date any of these peoples.

So who built them?

I don't have the ability to, nor do I intend to, deal comprehensively with the Irish (and by extention the Scots). That topic is probably worthy of a lifetime of work. But it has to be addressed.

This, ironically, is one of the best and easy to digest summaries (of the mythical accounts) I've read, written not by a historian, but by an artist (why am I not surprised).


The most written about (apart from the Celts) of these "invaders" were the Tuatha De Danaan (who's alleged connection to the Tribe of Dan is why I ever looked into this in the first place). They were supposedly a tall, enlightened and advanced peoples.

The roots of the Tuatha De Danaan is quite the mystery. Conventionally, they hailed from four mythical cities, Falias, Findias, Gorias, and Murias. From those four cities they bring four treasures: "from Falias Fál or Lia Fáil, the stone of destiny, which cries out under a lawful king; from Findias the sword of Nuadu, which allows no one to escape; from Gorias Gáe Assail, the spear of Lug Lámfhota, which guarantees victory; from Murias the cauldron of the Dagda, which leaves everyone satisfied."


Which tells us little, though apparently the four suits of the tarot (and by extention the four suits of western playing cards, for what it's worth) are derived from these four treasures.

There are a few sort of "left of center" theories of where the Tuatha De Danaan derive from.


...The Guanches were a "highly beautiful white race, tall, muscular, and with a great many blondes amongst their numbers"...remnants of the Mazur Grail tribe.

I asked ...for more information concerning the story. He opened the scroll for me into the akashic records to reveal the following. (It refers to) the journey of the 30 Spirit Tribes reflected paragenetically through a Hyperborean descended people, who after the Atlantean deluge became nomadic when their northern region of land slipped beneath the seas. These people contained the genetic and paragenetic seeds for the entire 30 Spirit Races of mankind, which when brought together with the remaining eight advanced straillium or strands, will form a physical vehicle for the regenerated Adam Kadmon.

The Hyperboreans contained Sirian blood, but this particular Hyperborean 'family' within the greater race, also held the genetic codes of the 30 Spirit Races through a mixture of five 'tribes'.

...The ‘people’ who carried the gene strands of the five Earth families and three star races, were originally called the Mazur. As they began their nomadic journey, they traveled through many lands. A branch of the Mazur became the Tuatha de Dannan.

Awwhh, sheesh, I sure hope I can tie these loose ends together in a way that doesn't require incorporating gods or aliens having sex with humans again doh1.gif

But there are many theories to chose from. Hyperborea, wherever that was, crops up, as does Atlantis, Lemuria (a mythical lost civilization in the Pacific), Scythia, and Greece.

And then there is this ...

Their principal residences were in and around Brú na Bóinne, the Boyne Valley, where Newgrange and the other great monuments stand today.

According to Lebor Gabála the Tuatha Dé Danann were the progeny of those Nemedians who followed Jobhath, the third son of Nemed, out of Ireland after the Battle of Conann's Tower.

Led by their commander Jarbonel they settled with others of their race near the city of Thebes in Greece, in an area "between the Athenians and the Philistines." Here they practised the arts of sorcery, magic and necromancy; for according to Forus Feasa there arose great conflict between the Athenians and the Assyrians: "…and several battles fought between them. These sorcerers would use their diabolical charms and revive the slain Athenians, and the next day bring them to battle, which so dispirited the Assyrians…"

The Tuatha Dé Danann then wandered across Europe settling first in Scandanavia, and later in Alba (Scotland) and "The Northern Isles".

From Alba they resolved to reclaim Ireland from the Fomor and the Fir Bolg, for Ireland was theirs by right of heredity, their Promised Land. With them they brought four great magical treasures: the Lia Fáil or Stone of Destiny which shrieked under the rightful monarch of Ireland at the time of his coronation; the Spear of Lugh which would brook no defeat of the warrior who wielded it; the Sword of Nuada (Cliamh Solais the Sword of Fire) from which no one could escape once it was drawn; and the Cauldron of the Dagda from which none came away hungry.

So maybe the Tuatha De Danaan invasion was a "homecoming"?

Yet all of this is but decoration on the cake compared to the research being done by an Irishman by the name of Michael Tsarion ... who insists that Ireland was much more than a backwater. I'll keep holding my cards, but his hypothesis are interesting and pretty well backed-up ...


Next I intend to deal with the Milesians (sometimes said to be Celts) - and the Scythians ... if they aren't one and the same.
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post Jul 10 2008, 11:51 AM
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Far be it for me to defend the mindset responsible for what's going on in Gaza, or under-estimate the influence of Zionist neoconservatives in steering the US into the Iraq war, to say nothing of probable Mossad involvement in 9/11. But there are folks out there who tend to put all their eggs in the Zionist basket ... P4T's co-founder Rob was even accused once of being a Zionist agent. Hahh, give me a break.

They do have a point maybe in connecting the dots between the world's most powerful banking family, the Rothschilds, with the development of the state of Israel, however some of the claims I've heard repeated, such as the one where the Rothschilds were instrumental in starting the Zionist movement, don't hold up very well. Theodor Hertzl is traditionally credited with starting the Zionist movement, and in his diary he relates a conversation he had with Alfred Rothschild:

[Hertzl] "I shoved my chair closer to his better ear and said:

'I want to get a Charter for Colonization from the English Government.'

[Baron Rothschild] 'Don't say Charter. The word doesn't sound so good now.'

[Hertzl] 'Call it what you like. I want to found a Jewish colony in British territory.'

[Baron Rothschild] 'Take Uganda.'"

(...Uganda? doh1.gif )

In all fairness Herzl did finally win the Baron over, and the Balfour Agreement dated two decades later was in fact addressed to Lord (Lionel) Rothschild, but the fact of the matter is that in the beginning the Rothschilds were cautious and reluctant to get involved in Hertzl's project.

There are other flies in the "zionist-plot" ointment. The most powerful banking dynasties in the US, the Morgans and the Rockefellers, while they did initially enjoy the financial backing of the English Rothschilds as they were building their empires over a century ago, are gentile. It also piques my interest that the Vatican entrusts a great deal of it's wealth to the Rothschild bankers, and then you have the paradox of the "Illuminati". Whether a short lived secret-society founded by Adam Weishaupt in the 17th century, or the much older organization that "Svali", a defector, describes, it's Catholic connections are hard to dismiss. According to the "Weishaupt" version the Illuminati are said to have been created out of Rosecrucian and Freemason orders, the later of who's ranks into which the Templars allegedly sought refuge when they were expunged. Svali, on the other hand, claims that the Illuminati is much older, likely growing out of the original Templar bankers. And while the Templar's alliance with the Vatican can be shown to have been tentative, it's no secret that the knights' Frankish Crusader cousins killed many a Jew during the Crusades.

And what of the "Zeitgeist" paradigm, that organized religion was set here to blind us all to the truth ... Who's idea was that? Do the Jewish bankers of old Europe connect somehow with the Byzantine Romans who moulded the gospels to fit their agenda, or the royal families that emerged in Europe during the middle ages? What of the astrological roots of our religious heritages? How big is the conspiracy, really?

Dunno, but for me at least, these sorts of nagging questions and paradoxes began to evaporate when I started poking around in pre-biblical times, and in the myths and legends of Mesopotamia, Greece, Egypt, Phoenicia, Scandinavia & the British Isles. There is much less written about another corner of the world that may have played at least as important a role in how the world evolved ... Scythia.

The same folks who insist that Zionists are behind everything will also tell you that the vast majority of European peoples of Jewish extraction are descended from the Khazars (true), including the Rothschilds (true), and that Khazaria converted en-mass to Judaeism in the 8th Century (true), ergo, European Jews can claim no blood relation to the Israelites. (Probably not accurate.)

Khazaria, a vast empire north of and surrounding the Black and Caspian Seas, was once Scythia.

Any strictly historical accounts will invariably ignore the possible flooding of Medes, the Caucasus, and finally Scythia by the exiled northern tribes of Israel. Biblical scholars, on the other hand, won't fail to point it out. But I find it particularly interesting that all four of the major rivers emptying into the Black Sea are variations on the name of the northern-most tribe, Dan.

There is another relevant biblical tangent, that of Gog and Magog, understood to be, essentially, Scythia and the Caucasus ... or was Gog from Magog? Hey, I'm no biblical scholar ... all I know is Gog & Magog are mentioned in the book of Revelations and the area talked about is fairly well agreed upon to be roughly synonomous with Scythia, and the peoples synonomous with the descendents of Japeth (one of the sons of Noah)... or maybe, I think, it's not clear if Magog is supposed to be a person, or Gog was a person and Magog a place ... (typical!!!) No matter, it has something to do with the end-times (which I believe to be a lot of baloney, FTR).

Anyway, don't know about Mag or Magog, but the Scythians were a feared, respected and literate peoples.

A few blurbs about them:

Archaeological remains of the Scythians include kurgan tombs (ranging from simple exemplars to elaborate "Royal kurgans" containing the "Scythian triad" of weapons, horse-harness, and Scythian-style wild-animal art), gold, silk, and animal sacrifices, in places also with suspected human sacrifices. Mummification techniques and permafrost have aided in the relative preservation of some remains....

...Carbon-14 dating of the Scythian kurgans has allowed archaeologists to trace their emergence in the Sayan-Altay mountainous area from about 3,000 BC to about 500 BC, and their westward spread starting about 900 BC.

...One cannot say with certainty that all of those variously referred to as Scythians or Saka spoke Iranian languages, or that they descended genetically from the stock of Iranian's original speakers. They may have only had an Iranian-speaking élite.


Jordanes, the best known Gothic historian, always speaks of the Getae and Goths as one people. He also calls them “Scythae.”

.... The Cimmerians were the oldest inhabitants of Scythia. Their history can be traced back to near the close of the eighth century B.C. in Assyrian records..... 
...Tiglath Pileser III was the first king of Assyria to invade northern Israel. He deported Israelites to Assyria during the reign of Pekah (II Kings 15:29). This event is confirmed by the ancient records of Assyria.
The inscription of Tiglath?Pileser ill says, “The land of Bit?Humria, all of its people together with their goods I carried off to Assyria” (Vol. 1, par. 816). Ancient Records of Babylonia and Assyria by Lukenbill).
Historians have found no mention of the exiled Israelites in ancient records because the Assyrians did not call them “Israel.” They referred to Israel as “Bit Humria” or “Bit-Khumri.” Why? That name means the “land of Omri.” They probably used that name because Omri built Samaria as the capital city of northern Israel (I Kings 16:24).
Omri was originally pronounced as “Ghomri” according to Dr. T.G. Pinches in his book Assyria and Babylonia, (page 339). That is why the Assyrian names for the captive Israelites were Beth?Omri, Bit?Khumri, Bit?Humri and Bit?Ghumri.  The Ghumri or Ghomri later were known as the “Gamera.” By the time of Esarhaddon (681?669 B.C.), Ghomri was written as Gimirrai.
Assyrian records say the Gamir or Gimirrai were living in northern Media in 707 B.C. — in exactly the same place where some of the Israelites were placed in captivity only fourteen years earlier.


Pliny says that the Sacae who settled in Armenia (south of the Black Sea) were named “Sacassani” (Book vi.19). They called their part of Armenia “Sacasena,” which is nearly the same as Saxonia or Saxony. Ptolemy also mentions a Scythian people called “Saxones.” The Anglo-Saxons are British ancestors.
Both British and Scandinavian roots therefore go back to the area of Scythia. They are kindred nations with a common origin. No wonder there are Scythian elements in both Viking and Celtic art (page 178, The Scythians by T. T. Rice)...

.....The inscription on the rock cliff at Behistun in northern Persia has been a key to interpreting the languages of the ancient East. It also gives us a clue as to the names Israel bore in captivity. The inscription gives the names of 23 provinces in three languages that were subject to Darius Hystaspes.
In the Persian and Susian languages, one of the provinces listed is “Scythia” (from the phonetic word Saka). But in the Babylonian language, the same province is called the “land of the Cimmerians.” It was translated from the phonetic word “Gimiri.”
Sir Henry Rawlinson, who first copied and translated the inscription, considered the name “Gimiri” to be the Babylonian equivalent of “the tribes” (Vol. III, page 183, History of Herodotus translated by George Rawlinson, 1862).

...They were called Gimirrai, Cimmerians and Scythians. The Persians called all Scythians “Sacae.”
Some of the ten tribes were driven into the Caucasus Mountains between the Black and Caspian Seas. After they left those mountains, they migrated into northwestern Europe as the Cimbri, Celts, Danes, Normans and Saxons. They became known racially as “Caucasians.”

The Agathyrsi (Akatziri) were to form the nucleus of the Khazar people. The Khazars converted to Judaism and at one stage became a world power. Their centre was in southern Russia, i.e. in Scythia.
...Saksin the Khazar capital was known as "The Saxon City"22. The Agathyrsi have been linked to the Goths23. Caucasian "Subarian traditions maintain that the Agathyrsians originated in Assur"24 i.e. there exists a tradition that the Agathyrsians came from Assyria and this is consistent with their having been Israelites who were exiled to Assyria and re-settled by the Assyrians on the fringes of their Empire. Herodotus relates the notion that the Agathyrsians, Scythians, and Gelonians were
brothers, sons of Hercules and a serpent woman.


Hesiod, 7th Century BC, writes: The inventors of bronze working were the Scythians. The early Messopotamian name of the metal Zubur, indicates that the northern Messopotamian Subartuan's or a people of the region were indeed the inventors of the process. The Scythians also of this region were therefore but a different designation of such people that the Greeks associated with them.


The exiles who were removed from Samaria, a city of palaces and temples, no doubt, bewailed the capital they had heroically defended for three years against the army of what was, in its time, the world’s most powerful nation. Accordingly they might have called their new settlement Samaria (in Hebrew Shemer or Shomron; Sumur in the el-Amarna letters).
On the middle flow of the Volga, a city with the name Samara exists and has existed since grey antiquity. It is situated a short distance downstream from the point where the Volga and the Kama join. Russian conquerors of the ninth century found this city in existence.


OMG. This passage implies a connection between the area of biblical Israel known as Samaria, the Scythian city of Samara, and Sumer.

I'm beginning to get a sense that civilization as we know it didn't just suddenly appear in Sumer ... it had been bubbling and evolving for many millenium. Something happened, a flood, or what I don't know, and these pockets of communities, while taking a big hit and thinned to great degree, continued, connected somewhat by similar (and related) belief systems, and traded (and sometimes warred) with each other. This is why we have the dragon-cult fanning out from various places, and similar pagan traditions seemingly based everywhere from Scandinavia to Egypt to Sumer to Phoenicia (and even the biblical Israel).

I THINK, that the roots of our civilization are very deep, that Sumerian pyramid-shaped heiarchy, astrological knowlege, pagan traditions etc. was shared in other locals including Egypt, Ireland, Scythia and Phoenicia with simple variations, and that the elite class in all of these cultures affiliated themselves with the symbol of the dragon ... or the elements that made up the dragon - this mythical beast was in fact a conglomeration of the eagle, lion and serpent (which explains ALOT!), and persists to this day. I don't think necessarily that today's ruling elite really can trace their roots back to this age ... but I'm sure they think that they can, and that they derive some power from this illusion, that only they are ordained to rule the stupid masses.

There's one other interesting fact that I failed to mention ... there was a city in Israel from about the 8th century BC, about half way between the cities of Dan and Jeruselem ... called Scythopolis. It is called Beit She'an now. Michael Tsarion believes that the Scythians traded with and had communications with both the Israelites and the Egyptians ... and of course, certain people think that the Israelites were the earlier Hyksos in Egypt.

But the thread that ties ancient Egypt, Scythia, and (finally) Scotland together is the story of Scota.

Apparently a Scythian by the name of Mil married a daughter of the Pharaoh Akhenaton and his wife Nephertiti. After many years and an extended stay in Spain, the Pharaoh's daughter Scota, and her sons (Mil had died by then) invaded Ireland, and displaced the Tuatha De Danaan. Scotland, apparently, derives it's name from this princess. There were other invasions of the British Isles possibly originating from Scythia, some say by way of Scandinavia, the Picts being one such peoples. But the Milesians (descendents of Mil) were also, in a way, Scythians. There were later invasions by the Celts, who are also sometimes accused of deriving from Scythia or thereabouts, in fact some refer to the Milesians as a Celtic peoples. It's all very confusing, but I think these sorts of details don't matter so much. The Celts, Picts, Milesians and Vikings who attempted to colonize Ireland or Scotland at different times, some more successful than others, can all be traced back to the general area of Scythia (and the Caucasus).

I have read, by the way, that our word for "military" comes from "Mil".

EDIT: I examine this more closely in a later post, where the Phrygian roots of the Picts are exposed. The Picts appear to be the same peoples as the Curetes of Calydon (Greece), which is why Scotland was once called Caledonia. It is nonetheless likely that these Picts were either originally from somewhere around the Black sea (maybe Scythia), or migrated there on their way from Greece to Scotland.
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post Jul 11 2008, 01:29 PM
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I love this quote ...

"The simplest things are always those the scholars see least. They go searching into the beyond, with infinite pains, neglecting the truth right under their noses" - Fabre d'Olivet (La Langue hebraique restitutee)

The same site gives us this, the word for "serpent" in various ancient cultures.

Mayan - Nachan
Hebrew - Nachash (Nashon)
Irish - Nathair (Nathrach, Nadder, Naase)
German - Natter
Anglo-Saxon - Addar
Cornish - Nader
Norse - Naor
Gothic - Nadr
Sanskrit - Nagas (Nadi)
Latin - Natrix
Native Indian - Nakopowa ("snake priest")
Sumerian - Nage (Annanage, Annunaki)


Michael Tsarion believes that all of these civilizations originated with the ancient Irish - admittedly a controversial idea. I take my hat off to this guy, I've picked up a lot of information thanks to his diligent research ... but I'm not sure if I buy his overriding premise regarding Irish origins. I remain open to the idea, but nothing of his that I've read (so far) is particularly in conflict with the hypothesis that ALL of these centers of development evolved together ... which would have to be based on the assumtion that they all travelled and traded with each other, far more and far longer than we're led to believe. How the heck does the accepted wisdom explain step-pyramids, human sacrifice and serpent worship in Mexico??? - They don't, they ignore the paradox ... to imagine that the ancient world was connected, trading, sharing an astrologically based pagan belief system (that is incredibly similar nomatter where you look) is invariably overlooked. I'm no scholar, I'm just an idiot typing on the web ... yet the connections are OBVIOUS to me. How is it possible that these various civilizations are still considered (officially) to have evolved from dust and independent of one another?

No one really knows where Hyperborea, a mythical land described in Greek legends as simply "the land above the north", really was (or if it really existed). But many people believe it may have been Scythia. There are a few that think it could have been farther north, even Scandinavia or the British Isles (which fits well with Tsarion's theories). But there is some circumstantial evidence that places Hyperborea sort of in between, via the symbol of the Boar ... which I'd like to post. It requires first introducing the de Vere family.

That the de Vere clan is the stuff of royalty is not disputed, the Merovingian and de Vere lines meet at the latest when Prince Milo de Vere married the sister of Charlemaine King of France. Interestingly, Edward de Vere 17th Earl of Oxford is thought by many to be the true author of Shakespear's works (Francis Bacon or a circle of Rosecrusians he was a part of are another candidate). Anyway, Nicholas de Vere has written a book (which I haven't read) titled 'The Dragon Legacy: The Secret History of an Ancient Bloodline'.

Additionally, the family claims to decend from the Danaan of Britain, and going back much further, originally from the Mittani, who were a powerful people seated in what is now southern Turkey/northern Iraq (Khurdistan) around 1500 BCE.

Atop the family crest of the de Vere family is a blue boar.

There is a legend of Corinth http://www.theoi.com/Ther/HusKalydonios.html (SW of Athens) where Meleager slayed a boar. Not coincidentally, a boar is found also on an ancient Corinthian coin.

From this information, John (the author of the this http://www.tribwatch.com/ladon.htm site) narrows down the Veres (and other bloodlines) to either the people of Corinth or the royal Calylonians, via Meleager (who was a "royal Calydonian") and/or, Atalanta, who shot the Boar first and left it for Meleager to kill in Greek legend. Furthermore, "Apollo was venerated among the Hyperboreans: he spent his winter amongst them". The Hyperboreans are equated with the Boar via the legends of Artemis, who sent the boar which Atalanta shot and Meleager killed.

The Pollack family crest (the connection to Poland is obvious), also features a boar. (Brown boar atop the knight's helmet. The boar on the Pollack crest has an arrow in its shoulder, which may represent a specific connection to Atalantis who shot the boar without killing it...)

"Pollack" relates to Po-Lug, or "Head of Lug". Lug gives rise to Lugia, which is southern Prussia, smack dab between ancient Scythia and Scandinavia. The "boar" is a Calydonian boar (Calydonia was in Greece while Caledonia is modern Scotland). There is also a "Lugi" peoples who resided in southern Scotland (!) - Wikipedia states that these people are unrelated to the Lugii of southern Prussia (yeah, right).

John, the author of the aforementioned dragon-bloodline website, analyzes the de Vere roots like this: Veres claim to descend from the Mittani who founded Methone (Greece), and from there joined the Gaul migration. (BTW the de Veres family is tightly linked to the Templars).

Nicholas de Vere claims that the Veres come from the Danaan of Britain, but there's a lot missing between the Mittani of Syria and the Danaan of Britain. John (and I) believe the Greek theatre lie in between, and he furthermore suggests that the Veres took the land route from there (through Lugia?), further explaining the de Vere adoption of the (Scythian?) Boar symbol on their coat of arms. My guess is that the use of the boar by both the de Vere clan and the Pollack family (who were likely descended from the Lugii), indicates that the de Veres passed through Lugia.

Who else might have the Boar included in their family Coat of Arms?

Edward III, William Wallace of Scotland's nemesis, adopted the Boar (blue as is the de Vere boar) as a symbol of his lineage. Less well known is the boar on the crest of the current US president's family ... with 3 boars (Jeeeze):

So THAT'S why we have an idiot for a president!?!?
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post Jul 13 2008, 11:09 AM
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Of course "that's" not why we have an idiot for a president, I was sort of joking. But the Bush family is seated from very early times in England, as was the de Vere family. The Bush's were seated in Yorkshire, the de Veres in Essex. It's noteworthy that the de Vere's received land and title from William the Conqueror for their service on the battlefield at Hastings in 1066.

I'm getting this information from the house of names, a fun site.

After I stumbled on to this site (actually "John" the author of Tracking Ladon Gog refers to crests there sometimes) , I tried to think of some of the families having anything to do with the establishment of the Federal Reserve or the Council on Foreign Relations, or personages having served conspicuously in administrations that furthered the banking and industrial elite's cause (that came to mind), and then I searched for their family crests... just for laughs. I was pretty surprised as to what came up:

George Herbert Walker was George W. Bush's great-grandfather, he had extensive dealings with Rockefeller and the eastern financial and industrial establishment. He also did business with Prescott Bush, leading to the marraige of Prescott to his daughter. The "W" in both the president's and his father's names stands for Walker.

Seated in Yorkshire (as was the Bush family) from very ancient times.

J.P.Morgan was America's most powerful banker at the begining of the 20th century, he and his father Junius before him were backed by the Rothschilds. J.P. Morgan was one of the central players in the establishment of the Federal Reserve and the CFR.

Ancient family from northern Wales, Kingdom of Gwynedd (of Arthurian legend), said to have been seated there from before the Norman Conquest.

Interesting to note some other famous Morgans of this line ... William Morgan, American Freemason (1774?-1826?, disappeared & allegedly murdered while writing an expose of Freemasonry); Charles Morgan (1795-1878), US railroad & shipping magnate; and of course the famous Henry Morgan the pirate/buccaneer.

Harriman is also a very old family, original spelling Harmon or Harman. (Suggests a connection to Mt. Hermon?? Mt. Hermon is Mt. Sion, a very significant landmark near the ancient city of Dan in modern Lebanon... more about Mt. Hermon later.) E.H. Harriman built railroads in the US with Rothschild money, his son Averell was a player in the establishment of the Fed & the CFR, was a member of Skull and Bones, and helped funnel money to Adolf Hitler along with his partner Prescott Bush.

The Harriman family is said to be seated in Suffolk, also from before the Norman conquest, arrived in America very early.

Nelson Aldrich was a Senator who's daughter married into the Rockefeller family. He headed the National Monetary Commission during Teddy Roosevelt's administration to study ways to stabalize the nation’s banking system after the Panic of 1907 (which was Morgan engineered). His "Aldrich Plan" preceded the Federal Reserve Act, the later of which he was instrumental in getting passed.

Seated from very early times in Suffolk, Sussex and Surrey.

Is that a boar !???

US president Teddy Roosevelt helped get the Spanish American war started, appointed Nelson Aldrich to study the need for a central bank, entered the presidential race in 1912 splitting the vote and allowing a win for Wilson, who signed the Federal Reserve Act. Later his cousin FDR appropriated all of the gold in America and got the US into WWII.

The Roosevelt family is also very old. Said to be seated in Devonshire from very early times, were granted lands by William of Normandy for their distinguished service at Hastings. Other spellings include Rous.

President William Howard Taft was one of at least 8 Taft family members who were "bonesmen", in fact the Taft family help found the Skull and Bones order.

Seated in Cheshire from very early times, probably before the invasion by William of Normandy.

Scottish origins, seated in Oxfordshire. Granted lands from William the Conqueror for service at the battle of Hastings.

Elihu Root was McKinley's Secretary of War during the lead-up to the Spanish-American War, and served as Teddy Roosevelt's Secretary of State. He was a leading lawyer of the American Bar Association, and lent his legal expertise to the financiers and industrialists who established the Federal Reserve banking system. He supported the US entering WWI and the establishment of the League of Nations, and was a co-founder of the Council on Foreign Relations.

The Root family is seated in Kent from very early times, granted lands by WIlliam the Conqueror for service at the battle of Hastings.

From Saxxony, humble beginings but came to prominence for contributions to emerging midiaeval society.

This is a Germanic family and thus not really connected to my story [EDIT:2009, boy was I wrong about THAT! - notice the blue and gold theme, crescent moon and stars], but I though it was interesting that the Kissinger crest includes the Fleur-de-Lis, a symbol of French Royalty since the Merovingian king Clovis I adopted it. (The symbol has very old roots, representing "female virtue and spirituality" and often connected to the Virgin Mary or Mary Magdalene. Its use can be traced all the way back to ancient Mesopotamia).

If you go up and look again at the Bush coat of arms, you'll find the fleur-de-lis there as well.

I got nothing when I searched for Rockefeller, but the family may derive from "Roquefeuil", a Catholic family from the region of Languedoc. Languedoc, which I haven't gotten into yet, is central to this story. Many royal lines of France and England (including several Templars) stem from this region.

I did find a crest, however, for the Dulles family. The Dulles brothers, Allen and John Foster, were lawyers for J.D. Rockefeller's Standard Oil company, the Dulles law firm also directed U.S. business affairs for key Hitler supporter Fritz Thyssen.
The Dulles brothers are said to have been cousins of David Rockefeller, they ran the OSS (predecessor of the CIA) during WWII out of Rockefeller Center, were both longtime CFR members and instrumental in the formation of the CIA, which Allen Dulles then directed.

The Dulles family was seated in northeastern Scottland (in Moray) from very early times, some say before William the Conqueror. Other spellings include Dallas.

[EDIT - Bill Clinton was born William Jefferson Blythe, Clinton was his step-father's name. Blythe was also rooted in Scotland from very early times.]

(Continued below...)
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post Jul 13 2008, 11:12 AM
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I didn't find a crest for the Warburg family, but I found one for the Lehmans. Herbert H. Lehman was among the founders of the CFR, and Lehman Bros. is of course one of the owning banks of the Fed.

Seated from very early times in Essex, some say from before the Norman conquest.
(Note the 3 dolphins, Greek legends are rife with images of dolphins, Eros and Aphrodite are described as riding them. I have a feeling they represent Phoenician roots ...
Dionysus desired to sail from Icaria to Naxos. He then hired a Tyrrhenian pirate ship. But when the god was on board, they sailed not to Naxos but to Asia, intending to sell him as a slave. So Dionysus turned the mast and oars into snakes, and filled the vessel with ivy and the sound of flutes so that the SAILORS went mad, and leaping into the sea, were turned into dolphins.

And this family was seated in Buckinghamshire from very early times, and were granted lands by William the Conqueror in return for distinguished service at the battle of Hastings:


It might seem like I'm meanering around sometimes like a drunk trying to remember where he parked his car. To some extent, yes, I have been and will be again guilty of meandering. Part of the reason is, I don't really understand the subject matter! laugh.gif . But then again, NO ONE DOES IMO. Very few people are writing about this very-out-of-the-mainstream topic, which makes it extremely difficult to find information. There are a few people though, I mentioned the anonomous "John", who is so well versed in ancient peoples that his chapters are difficult for me to follow - but he's light-years ahead of anyone else on this topic and a great source of information IMO. Michael Tsarion is more accessable, but has his own quirks, mainly a steadfast belief that (a) civilization as we know it originated in Ireland and (b ) the source of our troubles was the cult of Aton (Egypt). I will address that hypothesis at some point, but the ramifications of his theory, if correct, turn everything on it's head ... needless to say, I haven't come to grips with it yet, so I'll pass on commenting further. Anyway, there are bigger fish to fry at the moment, and until I connect some more dots, it's pointless to head down that alley.

Back to my "meandering" ... partly it has been on purpose - I sought to create a sandwich (the middle yet to be filled). At the bottom, we have the ancient world and pagan traditions, above we have the successful invasion of England by William the Conqueror in 1066. I haven't discussed the Crusades, but some of the families who would be known later as the Templars were very much mixed up with the Normans and the conquest of England, and the first Crusade took place not so long after that event (1095 I think). What I'm really interested in, is what's in the middle of that sandwich - the connections between the mystery religion sects in France that gave rise to the Cathars, Templars and the Merovingian line and earlier pagan centers in Egypt, Phoenicia, Chaldea, and in certain respects Israel and Greece, and their ties and similarities. Secondly, ties and similarities between those same cultures and the Vikings, who invaded Europe, married into those same families from the south of France, which resulted in a Ruling Class which persists to this day.

That's not to say that I believe that every Ruler of country or corporation, whether appointed, elected or selected at birth, can claim a line of descent to this ancient and ill-defined dragon-line that I (and others) keep referring to, but rather that many of them claim to, and rather that they impart importance to this bloodline, and had the Bush family not been descended from ancient Scythians (as evidenced by the 3 boars on the family crest, not to mention the Fleur de Lis accompanied by two very "Eastern" eagles), or their 20th century mentors the Walkers (sorry, but it FLOORS me that both the Walker and Bush families were seated in Yorkshire) ... neither Bush, nor his father, would ever have been given the opportunity to oversee the assasination of a Kennedy in order to enter the inner circle and become president of the United States. (Please don't take my inferrence of Bush involvement in the two Kennedy assasinations as anything more than the ramblings of a nut-job - go watch the vids yourself and draw your own conclusion.)

So, where's my sandwich? Ohh, yeah, I was talking about the merging of the bloodlines of the Viking invaders and the, how shall we refer to them, the Cathar-Templar-Merovingian Franks?

William the Conqueror was descended from Vikings, no doubt, specifically from "Rollo the Viking". The Merovingians, who cannot be ignored in this discussion, are harder to pin down, but they infiltrated and took over modern France from the north/east (modern Belgium/Netherlands?) and claimed to hail from the Davidian bloodline via the bloodline of Jesus Christ.

There is no clear evidence of this. The link in question is Quintus Tarus, a prefect of Rome who was supposedly the father of the first Merovingian King Merovich. The idea is that he was descended from Mary Magdalene ... but there is another interpretation, that the "Jesus" this Mary was married to was a guy known as Jesus of Gamala, a different person entirely.

Whatever the truth is in fact irrelevant though, the fact that the Merovingian kings clinged to this supposed Davidian heritage is what matters...
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post Jul 16 2008, 03:17 PM
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Rabbi Makhir, said to be a descendent of King David hence of the "Davidian line", was moved from Baghdad to the Mediterranean coast of France (an area known as Septemania or Languedoc) in the 8th century as per the Pope's request (no matter how many summaries I read, I still can't figure out why Rabbi Makhir, the Exhilar of Babylon would give an owl's hoot for whether or not the Pope thought he should go to France, but anyway he packed up and went there) ... bringing with him the teachings of the Kabbala. [EDIT: Makhir's move to Languedoc was most likely as per the request of Charlemagne, and he received lands and title in return.] From there (literally ... from his own loins for the most part...) sprang the Cathars and the Dukes of Anjou. To great extent, the communities that grew up around Makhir and his progeny soon became the fount the Templar Knights (and the Priory of Sion - if it really existed...) grew out of. That is especially true if you factor in some Viking blood ... it should be noted that the Crusades (during which the Templars came into existence) got started less than 30 years after the (successful) invasion of England by William the Conqueror, a direct descendent of Rollo the Viking. Does a Davidian line originating in the south of France have anything to do with the Vikings who entered northern France in the late 9th century? A more appropriate question might be, how on earth did Rollo, the leader of that invasion, wind up married to the granddaughter of Pepin II (King of Aquitane and the grandson of Charlemagne himself !) ??? Generally, these royal lines didn't approach marriages lightly. Of course it was an attempt to form an alliance with the new bosses in Normandy, but try to imagine ... here a Viking invader stomps into France and takes over the northern third, and promptly marries into the most elite royal family of all of Europe, maybe in all of history. That's basically what happened.


Toward the right at top, find Charles Martel and his grandson Charlemagne, Charlemagne's grandson Pepin II and finally Pepin's grandaughter Poppa of Bavaria, who married Rollo the Viking ... from there you get William the Conqueror (and his descendents the English Kings of history).

I also urge the reader to note the various marraiges between West European royalty and EAST European royalty in that geneology chart (toward the left side). Were these, too, strictly arranged in the interest of forming alliances? Or did common Scythian roots have anything to do with both these unions and the welcome mat that the Carolingians (French Kings descended from Charlemagne) spread out for the Vikings? I can't support this claim, but I sense that somehow a common heritage, and maybe even some "dragon-blood" was involved.

A little about OUR Viking roots. Did you know that FOUR out of the 7 days of our week are named after Viking kings, queens or gods? Sunday and Monday are of course named after the sun and the moon (Latin/Roman roots), but Tuesday is Tiw's day, Tiw is an alternate spelling of Tyr, an important Viking god.

Originally a god of law and justice, Tyr later came to represent war, and so is associated with Ares/Mars. (I remember that in French Tuesday is Merdi - I'm sure the other Romance languages also name that day for the planet Mars.) Two things jump out at me, first, the fact that in Hebrew "Dan" also means "law and justice". Also undeniable is the closeness of Tyr and Tyre, an ancient city in Phoenicia near Sidon and the city of Dan. The king of Tyre, if you recall, sent the master architect Hiram to Jeruselem to build Solomon's temple. Could the origins of Tyr and Tyre be the same? I'd be surprised if the words weren't connected. While I'm on that tangent, this may be just bunk, but it's interesting. That the word Viking derives from Six Kings. Six, in roman numerals, is of course VI. VI-Kings, 6 kings, Vikings. The 6 kings refer to the 6 Hyksos kings that ruled Egypt for the hundred years of the 15th dynasty. Whether that is the actual origin of the term "Viking" or not, I don't know, like I said it may be just bunk.

Wednesday comes from Wodan, an alternate spelling of the Viking god-king ODIN. Wednesday is Odin's day. Thursday is named for Odin's son, Thor, and Friday is named for his wife and queen, Freja. Amazingly, it appears that these were real people.

Here's a straight geneological line from Odin to an important Germanic ruler, Henry "the Fowler".

*Woden (or Odin or Bodo), King of Saxons (b 215, d 300) (m. Frea)
*1 Witte (or Wecta) I, King of Saxons (d 350)
*Witte, King of Saxons II
*Hengest, Prince of Jutes
*Hathwigate, Prince of Saxons
*Hulderick, King of Saxons
*Bodicus, Prince of Saxons
*Berthold, King of Saxons
*Sighard, King of Saxons
*Dieterick, King of Saxons md Dobzegera, dau of Billung, King of Wenden
*Wernike King of Saxons b Germany md Gunilda b Germany
*Wittekind von Sachsen King of Saxons (Widukind) von Ingern of the King b 730 Germany d 7 JAN 807/08 (md Geva Eysteinsdatter of Denmark, b ABT 740 dau of Eystein of Westfold King in Raumarlike Halfdanarsson, and Hildi Eriksdatter)
*Wigbert Duke of Saxony Count in Engern, Lower Saxony, Count of Saxony - Duke of Saxony b. c 756, d. c 813 (married Hasalda von Sachsen, d/o Widukind, Herzog von Engern and Geva of Denmark, before 786)
*Bruno von Sachsen [Count of Saxony] b. circa 786, d. circa 844 (married Suana (Oda) of Montfort bef. 806. born circa 786.died circa 844.)
*Bruno De Harcourt Duke of the Angrian Saxons of Saxon SEE BELOW
*Ludolphe the great von Sachsen (Count) of SAXONY
*Otto I the illustrious von Sachsen b. c 836, d. 30 Nov 912 (md. Hedwige, Empress of the Holy Roman Empire)
*Heinrich I "The Fowler", King of the Germans (Henry the Fowler).


For those out there that thought (as I did) that Odin was just a mythical Viking diety, here's a few other sites that attest to an actual Scandinavian king known by that name:


And for the record, it is my understanding that Woden or Odin just means King of the 'Dans', and that ALL Scandinavian kings of that period and earlier (Odin was supposedly born in the 3th century) were refered to as Odin. (Wodan, Odin and the various spellings of the Scandinavian king stongly suggest origins in "Dan", as does Denmark.) The "Odin" we are more or less familiar with just happens to be a particularly memorable king in a long string of them.

If you check all the way over at the right of the chart I posted above, (here it is again)

... you'll find Henry "The Fowler", founder of the Saxon Kings. This line produced many prominent crusaders and kings of Jeruselem. His descendant Ida (of Lorraine)'s husband, Eustace II, was descended from Alfred the Great, a patriarch of English and Scottish kings who was ALSO descended from Odin (located toward the left of the chart). Alfred's blood gets mixed in with the royals of the East when Edward the Elder's daughter Adiva marries Bolesiav I of Bohemia, and that blood gets mixed up again with Scottish and English royalty when Agatha of Bulgaria marries Edward the Exile, producing Margaret, Queen of Scotland. Her marraige to Malcom III produced both Matilda, who married Henry I son of William the Conqueror on one hand, and David I of Scotland on the other, from whom the Robert the Bruces are descended. The roots of the alliance between the Templar knights and the royals of Scotland begins in this period [UPDATE (July2008) - Woah was I naive! The roots of the Scottish/Templar alliance are much older and deeper - ], but I'll touch on that later. The point is, the blood of Odin leaked into the royal bloodlines of France and England via several paths, in fact the Queen of England herself claims to carry the "blood of Woden".

However, the most important Scandinavian patriarch of European royalty is "Rollo the Viking".

Rollo was said to be such a giant of a man that a horse couldn't carry him (very doubtful), and that he and his men kicked the ever-lovin' sh#t out of the entire north of France (not in doubt).

...(will add more soon, going to bed)
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post Jul 19 2008, 11:49 AM
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Who were the Vikings? Historians say they were Scythians (or Sarmatians ... Sarmatia was in the western portion of Scythia north of the Black Sea), who emmigrated (invaded might be the better word) and mixed with the indigenous peoples there.

The origins of the Vikings lie, like all original Indo-European peoples, in the ancient Sarmatian (European) homeland between the Black and Baltic seas. <s> Part of the earliest wave of Indo-European settlers, the Vikings were originally the Sarmatian tribes who settled in southern Scandinavia and Denmark...


When historians also tell us that the Picts of Scotland came from Scythia, they note that they arrived there via Scandinavia. It may not be correct to call them all one people, but they are connected.

[EDIT: The Picts may well not have arrived in Scotland via Scandinavia, I have located the source of this confusion which I mention in a later post.]

But what about this? If you just go to google-image and search for Viking and Phoenician ships, you get a lot of pictures like this.

I have no idea how we know that both cultures dyed their sails in red and white stripes, or if they did, but their ships certainly most often are depicted that way. Additionally, in the upper right corner above is the Civic Heraldry of Lebanon, complete with red and white stripes (modern Lebanon and ancient Phoenicia are essentially the same place).

Phoenicia was famous for a purple-red dye made from the murex snail, which is often connected to the color worn by royalty, however the dye made from the Phoenician snail may not be the red used to color their sails.

Interestingly, the Tribe of Dan is also associated with a banner of Red and White -

"Dan's position in the journey was on the North of the Tabernacle, with Asher and Naphtali. The standard of the tribe was of white and red and the crest upon it an eagle. . .Jacob had compared Dan to a serpent. Ahiezer substituted the eagle, the destroyer of serpents, as he shrank from carrying an adder upon his flag." [Unger, p. 273]

A cockatrice is a mythical animal that is part bird and part snake. It was tied to Dan because the original symbol used on the standard of the tribe was a red adder [snake or serpent] on a white background with a gold crown on its head. The adder was later replaced by an eagle, which was known for destroying snakes by hunting and eating them.

A couple of other flags contain red and white stripes ... we're all familiar with the American flag of course, maybe not with the flag of the Dutch East India Trading Company, the largest and most lucrative operation in Imperial England, one of who's flags was the red cross on white, with horizontal red and white stripes.

The British flag also incorporates the red cross, and there's a good reason to believe this is in fact taken from the Templars - just look at the crest of the City of London. (The Templar shield flanked by two dragons! - jeeeze!!!) The English anscestral home of the Templars was of course the Crown Temple Church, at the western edge of the "City", or "square mile" as it is sometimes called. The City of London, for those not familiar, is a sovereign city-state in the heart of London, unburdened by English laws or juristiction, complete with it's own police force. A few blocks away from the Crown Temple Church is the Bank of England, the center of western banking. This is no surprise because the Templars are in fact the fathers of modern banking. In medeival Europe you could hand over your gold to the Templars in one city, get a reciept in return, travel to another city and exchange that reciept for an equal amount of gold (minus a service charge I would imagine), and not worry about being robbed on the way. Their prodigious lending to kings and queens is what finally got them into trouble, when King Phillip IV of France, who owed them way too much money, decided that one way to get out of debt was just to round the Knights up and burn them at the stake for heresy, which he did between the years 1307 and 1314.

Some of the surviving Templars fled to Scotland, which is really interesting. A few hundred years before that, some members of the St. Clair (Sinclair) family (you may recognise the name if you saw or read 'the Da Vinci Code', or 'Holy Blood Holy Grail' which it is based on) decided not to accompany William Duke of Normandy (William the Conqueror) on his foray of conquest into England in 1066, and instead picked up and moved to Scotland. I'm a little fuzzy on the details but I'll look into it more and post later on it. Other Templars went to Portugal, which is why you see a slightly modified red Templar cross on the sails of Columbus' ships ... the Templars (in Portugal) were investors in that voyage.

There are other auspicious buildings inside the City of London, the English Stock Exchange, Lloyd's of London headquarters, and N.M. Rothschild & Sons Ltd. where the price of gold is set twice a day. That's a fun anecdote -

LONDON - The financial district known here simply as The City is a hotbed of the loyal Order of the Masons, who have a penchant for strange rituals. But Masonry has nothing to do with an odd little ceremony performed twice every day in an office at N.M. Rothschild & Sons Ltd.

Five men talk on their phones for 10 minutes or so and then lower tiny Union Jacks sitting on their desks. And that's it. The London gold fixings is complete. It takes place at 10:30 a.m. and 3 p.m., like clockwork. The same ceremony has been performed the same way, in the same place, and with mostly the same firms participating since the first gold fixing was enacted at Rothschild in St. Swithin's Lane on Friday Sept. 12, 1919.


By the way, the Rothschilds also own most or much of the Bank of England, have since 1815 when Nathan Rothschild, armed with advance knowlege of Napolean's defeat at Waterloo, perpetrated an insider trading coup in London. I bring this up because I don't want the reader to lose track of the dots we are trying to connect ... the Rothschilds, by far the richest and most powerful dynasty in the world, are descended from Khazars ... read: Scythians. Donald Kagan is one of the founders of the Neoconservative movement, his two sons are active in it was well. Kagan meant King in ancient Kazaria. (Thanks painter for that info.) I haven't gotten to the Greek theatre yet, but why am I not surprised that Donald Kagan specialized in ancient Greece at Yale, and wrote a four-volume history of the Peloponnesian War? Speaking of Neoconservatives and Greece and ships, Richard Perle, globalist and media mogul Conrad Black's 'pet', close friend and business partner of Henry Kissinger, and warmongering neocon delux ("If we just let our vision of the world go forth, and we embrace it entirely, and we don't try to piece together clever diplomacy but just wage a total war, our children will sing great songs about us..."), named his own company "Trireme" - which is a Greek warship with three layers of oars. The Phoenicians had "biremes", with two layers (the Greeks added another).

There are two other little tidbits relating to the City of London, and then I'll move on. King John, in 1213, who had been excommunicated several years earlier (this meant that the whole of England was excommunicate - no Brits could get into heaven), transferred the authority of the English crown to the pope, in return for papal grace. That agreement has never been negated. Even today, the power of the crown does not sit on the Queen's head - it resides in the City of London. HOW the power of the crown moved from the pope to the City of London, I don't know, I have searched for the answer to that question long and hard. All I can offer is to point out that the Templars were the pope's own militia at the time.

Secondly, the evolution of our legal system. You can't have a successful bank if you don't have a lawyer nearby to back you up - don't pay your debts, you get taken to court and thrown in jail. Indeed, modern law and modern banking evolved together - not just together, but in the same tiny neighborhood ! The Crown Temple Church, anscestral home of the Templar Knights, in the City of London, is currently (and has always been) the headquarters of the International Bar Association (!!!). After you graduate from law school and take the bar exam, whether you are to become a lawyer or a judge, you swear an oath of fealty to the International Bar Association in the City of London - all bar associations around the world are franchises of this institution. (Someone kick me in the head!!!) By the way, our term "passing the bar" comes from the gate into the City of London a few yards from the Crown Temple Church, where a bar was placed. You gained permission to enter The City and the "bar" was dropped and you were allowed entry. You "passed the bar".

Which brings us to "Admiralty Law". I'm not qualified to get into this too much, but the Universal Codification of numerous US laws (in the stated interest of inter-state unification) that has been going on for over a century is an attempt to move the US away from Constitutionally derived and common-law based statutes to ones based on Admiralty Law, the law of the Seas, the law of Commerce. Heck, you could even think of the Universal Code as the beginnings of "gobalization". Here's a good article that explains it all and documents the various legal statutes that have been introduced or changed (always in the direction of Admiralty Law, always away from the spirit of the Constitution).

And this is an interesting presentation, by Jordan Maxwell & Jason Whitney - the Occult World of Commerce.

Before I move on, I should note that all of the Rothschild sponsored banking endeavors in the US are preceded by the word "City", derived from or in honor of, the City of London. This is true. National City Bank., National City Bank of Cleveland (from which J. D. Rockefeller received his backing), National City bank of Houston, and of course, yes, Citibank.

The overiding point to all of this is, COMMERCE. The Phoenicians were sea-faring traders. The Tribe of Dan as well. To what extent these peoples were conquering peoples is somewhat vague, but there is much evidence that they did in fact move about and take control wherever they went, thanks in no small part to their superiority in metallurgy (that's why it's called the Bronze age), weaponry, shipbuilding, organizational skills, architectural knowlege, and knowlege of the stars (all of these "virtues" were of course posessed by the nearby Egyptians and Sumerians, in fact they probably had them first ... but we're trying to move through history).

The Vikings also were certainly both sea-faring traders and ruthless conquerors ... and all of these groups share incredible similarities in their religious beliefs, the way they built their ships, even in the names of their gods.

Admittedly I've gotten here by a very circuitous route, but maybe we can return now to the Phoenician/Scythian/Viking connection. We know (or we are told) about the Scythian/Viking connection - what of a possible Phoenician/Scythian connection?

Regarding the Phoenicians, George Rawlinson writes:

Without a chart, without a compass, guided only in their daring voyages by their knowledge of the stars, these bold mariners penetrated to the shores of Scythia in one direction; to Britain, if not even to the Baltic, in another; in a third to the Fortunate Islands...


That was written by a Professor of Ancient History @ the University of Oxford, good enough for me. It comes as no surprise to me though that the ancient Phoenicians would have traded with Scythia, it's not so hard to get there by boat ... all you have to do is sail up through the Bosphorus straights into the Black Sea.

In my previous post I pointed out that our word for Tuesday comes from the Viking god Tiw, taken from Tyre, the meaning being government, war, or law, and also the name of an important city on the coast of Phoenicia. Tyre and Sidon were both close to the city of Dan and Mt. Hermon...
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post Jul 22 2008, 01:47 PM
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Mt. Hermon, which was the center of ancient Ba'al worship, is a mountain straddling modern Lebanon and Syria, just outside the biblical land of Israel north of the Asher and Nephtali tribes. At the southern foot of the mountain lied the city of Laish, which was attacked and claimed for their own by the Tribe of Dan and renamed "Dan" (circa 1100BC?). The peaks (there are three peaks, some suggest that the three pyramids at Giza mirror these three peaks) comprised the most important pagan landmark in all of the Levant - Mt. Hermon was thought to be the "gate" by which the "fallen angels" (fathers of the Nephilim?) entered the world.

From The Book of Enoch:

"And it came to pass, after the children of men had increased in those days, beautiful and comely daughters were born to them.
"And the angels, the sons of the heavens, saw and lusted after them, and said one to another: ‘Behold, we will choose for ourselves wives from among the children of men, and will beget for ourselves children.'
"And they descended on Ardîs, which is the summit of Mount Hermon; and they called it Mount Hermon, because they had sworn on it and bound themselves mutually by a curse" (Enoch 6:1-6).

Sure enough, the most solidly pagan tribes among the Israelites, Dan and Naphtali (the similarity between the terms Nephtali and Nephilim, as I've mentioned, are obvious), lived at the foot of Mt. Hermon, and temples to Ba'al dotted the area.

"More than twenty temples have been surveyed on Mount Hermon and its environs. This is an unprecedented number in comparison with other regions of the Phoenician coast." [Freedman, "Hermon, Mount," p.159]


In a book entitled, The Gods of the Lodge, author Reginald C. Haupt, Jr., described what he found during his trip to Mount Hermon:
"In the excavations of Baalbek, renamed Heliopolis by the Greeks, temples were uncovered honoring Baal and Bachus. The same is true of the site at Sidon. The Temple there is named the Temple of Baal of Sidon. But by far, of greater importance was the temple of Baal found on Mt. Hermon. Perhaps it would be more meaningful to you if I [Reginald Haupt] quote direct from my source. In the 1982 edition of the Thompson Chain Reference Bible (Fourth Improved Edition), the archaeological supplement was provided by G. Fredrick Owen, D.D., Ed.D. Dr. Owen wrote on page 376 of his supplement the following:
"Mount Hermon, the ‘chief' of the mountains of Palestine is five miles wide and twenty miles long. It has three peaks, the tallest of which is 9,166 feet above the Mediterranean Sea. For centuries before Abraham's time, the mountain had been venerated in connection with Baal.
"Baal worship was the leading religion of Canaan. On most of the high peaks of the country were shrines known as ‘high places,' the higher the holier. Here groves were planted and shrines erected for worship. Since Mount Hermon towered above all the other mountains in the region, it was the chief high place, the shrine of shrines. Canaanites looked to Mount Hermon much as the Moslems face Mecca when they pray.
"During the summer of 1934, Dr. Stewart Crawford and this writer [Reginald Haupt] led a small expedition, in which we studied the ancient Baal shrines surrounding Mount Hermon. We located many ruins and in each case the shrine was so oriented that when the priests and the devotees were at the altar, they faced the chief Baal sanctuary, or Quibla, located on the highest of the three peaks of Hermon.
"We then ascended the mountain and found the ruined temple of Baal, constructed of Herodian masonry, which dated it to just previous to and during the early Christian era. In a low place near the northwest corner of the temple, we excavated and found loads of ash and burnt bone, which had been dumped there as a refuse from sacrifices" (Reginald C. Haupt, Jr., The Gods of the Lodge, p. 126).

The Phoenicians had trading posts all around the Mediterannean, from Crete to Sicily to Morocco to Spain. Somewhere in between 800 and 1200 BC (depending on who you ask), they established the city of Carthage in northern Africa, which would remain within their sphere until the Romans conquered it (146 BC). I bring up Carthage for two reasons. Carthage was one of three main centers of Kabbalah-cult activity, the other two being Chaldea (southern Mesopotamia) and Greece. (Kabbalah will come up in my next post.) Secondly, archealogical digs uncovered a Topet or Topeth (and lots of bones) in Carthage. A Topeth was a "roaster" used in child sacrifice rituals.

I might not have been motivated to chasing down any of this info had I not been disturbed by what goes on every summer at the Bohemian Grove, and curious as to why. This is for real, America's political and business leaders do actually get together in California every year, and, in addition to some general goofing off and I imagine a fair amount of worldly discussion, don hooded black robes and watch mock human sacrifices. WTF!?? If I hadn't seen this
or Alex Jone's piece on the Grove, I probably wouldn't have believed this really goes on.

What possible reason could there be for such a yearly event to exist, and for distinguished politicians and business leaders to risk their reputations by showing up there? Actually, part of the answer to why they don't worry about getting busted is the fact that what goes on is so outrageous that they know very few people would believe it even if they saw it with their own eyes ... but the question of why this tradition even exists remains. Hopefully this thread makes some inroads into answering that.

"John", author of 'Ladon Gog', discusses the Carthage Tophet here (and the disconcerting implication that this sort of thing went on near Jeruselem as well).

From this page:
"In 1921 Otto Eissfeldt, excavating in Carthage...uncovered [what] was a sanctuary to the goddess Tanit comprising a cemetery with thousands of burned bodies of animal and of human infants, dating from the 8th century BC down to the destruction of Carthage in 146 BC. Eissfeldt identified the site as a tophet, using a Hebrew word of previously unknown meaning connected to the burning in some Biblical passages. Most of the children's bodies appeared to be those of newborns, but some were older, up to about six years of age."

Tanit was the wife (i.e. the ally) of Baal Hammon (I've yet to identify her as an historical peoples; perhaps the Danaan). The Bible uses "Topheth" for a location within a mile of Jerusalem, in the valley of Hinnom. How could such insane religious observances be conducted so closely to His city; why did YHWH permit them there? ...

...Strong's Concordance says that "Topheth" (38612) derives from the primary root, "taphaph" (38608)," meaning, "to drum." It's now obvious to me why that term came to signify Molech, for this definition evokes the loud drummings made by Curetes/Kabeiri during their wild bashes. In other words, there was more going on than a lot of wine drinking and orgiastic perversions; human sacrifices were a typical part of those bashes. That's what the myths didn't reveal openly, but what the myth writers knew.

I find it interesting that the Carthage finds are dated from 800 to 146 BC... exactly the period the Phoenicians donimated the city - solid evidence that this sort of thing went on around Mt. Hermon as well is elusive, but I'd be very surprised if it didn't.

Mt. Hermon was also known as Mt. Sion, not be confused with Mt. Zion, which is near Jeruselem. Without question, the Priory of Sion, the "keepers of the Grail" closely associated with the Merovingians and the Templar knights, whether real or a hoax, derives it's name from this Sion. I have often heard or read the two (Zion and Sion) being confused, it makes me want to jump up and down and shout, "No, no, the two are not the same! This is one of the reasons Judaeism, Zionism, and the whole Kabala-dragon-cult stuff has gotten all jumbled up in our collective heads IMO. Sion equals PAGAN, The Gate of fallen Angels!"

And speaking of secret societies, boy was I (not?) surprised that, if measured from the Paris Zero Meridian (which was in use until the Zero Meridian was moved to Greenwich in 1884), Mt. Hermon lies at 33º latitude and 33º longitude. Do you have to be a 33rd degree Mason before they let you in on that I wonder? Goodness, what a lucky accident that I drifted into Masonry ... I touched on this before, but the ritual of the 3rd degree of Masonry is the re-enactment of the death of Hiram Abiff, who is central to the tenets of that cult. Abiff was the master builder of Solomon's temple, his mother was from the Tribe of Dan, his father a man of Tyre, (or) possibly from the tribe of Napthali. Solomon asked the king of Tyre for help in building his temple, the king sent Hiram, along with a workforce of Phoenicians. Solomon shows the finished work to Sheba - she is impressed, and he marries her. However Sheba wants to meet the architect, who she falls in love with, and that spells the end of Hiram. Three builders (chosen by Solomon to exact his revenge), who feel jilted for Hiram having witheld the secrets of Masonry from them, try in turn to force Hiram into revealing the key to his knowlege, which he will not do, and so they kill him.

Many writers - chiefly non-Masons - have sought to throw light upon the subject, and with one voice they agree that the story of the death of Hiram is simply the Masonic way of serving up an ancient mystery. Mr John Fellows, who brings a mass of knowledge to a study of the subject, says that "the story of Hiram is only another version, like those of Adonis and Astarte, and of Ceres and Prosperine, of the fable of Osiris and Isis. The likeness throughout," he adds, "is so exact as not to admit of doubt. The search for the body of Hiram; the enquiries made of a wayfaring man, and the intelligence received; the sitting down of one of the party to rest and refresh himself, and the hint conveyed by the sprig over the grave; the body of Hiram remaining fourteen days in the grave prepared by the assassins before it was discovered, all have allusion to, and comport with, the allegory of Osiris and Isis. The condition even in which the grave of Hiram is found, covered with green moss and turf, corresponds very much with that in which Isis found the coffin of Osiris." 


I wanted to point out these similarities between the Hiram Abiff tale and the legend of the Egyptian god Osiris, but more than that, look at this, and note where Tyre is, the city to where Solomon turned when he got it into his head to build the Temple that the Templar Knights were so obsessed with and that Zionists and End-Timers to this day are all worked up about, in proximity to the city of Dan and Mt. Hermon.

Mt. Hermon wasn't just important to the Phoenicians and surrounding peoples, after Alexander the Great's reign the Ptolemaic kings of Egypt built a shrine at the southern foot of the mountain in worship of Pan, the Greek god of nature, calling it Paneion. Later, the Romans (actually Herod's son, Philip II, who ruled the area) expanded the cult center into a city, Caesarea Philippi, which was "a pagan center full of temples, Greek theaters and statues". http://www.welcometohosanna.com/LIFE_OF_JESUS/ministry15.htm

The city is now called Banius, an Arab corruption of "Paneas". The Greek Pan was, by the way, the son of Hermes ... and Hermes comes from??? You guessed it, Mt. Hermon.

Before moving on I need to make a quick correction regarding the Picts and Scotland (it seems the more I read the less I know tongue.gif ), and happily, in doing so swing right around to where I want to go, Greece. Not only does Greece fit smack dab between the Bronze age & biblical world (I've been discussing) and Medieval Europe (where I'm heading), it also lies between the two geographically. As all roads lead to Rome, maybe all dragons slither through Greece(?).

Anyway, I mentioned that the Picts, a peoples who arrived in northern England (around 1000BC?) and dominated what is now Scotland until the Milesians came, were Scythians ... and that the accepted wisdom is that they arrived there via Scandinavia. It turns out no one really knows who the Picts were, much less how they got there. I did learn why this view is oft repeated (and the source of my confusion - I'm certain one of my high school teachers put it into my head):

Bedes, an Anglo-Saxon historian (673-735) wrote, as quoted here,

"... the nation of the Picts, from Scythia [by which it is generally agreed that Bede means Scandinavia], as is reported, putting to sea, in a few long ships, were driven by the winds beyond the shores of Britain, and arrived on the northern coast of Ireland, where, finding the nation of the Scots, they begged to be allowed to settle among them, but could not succeed in obtaining their request... The Scots answered that the island could not contain them both; but "We can give you good advice," said they, "what to do; we know there is another island, not far from ours, to the eastward, which we often see at a distance, when the days are clear. If you will go thither, you will obtain settlements; or, if they should oppose you, you shall have our assistance." The Picts, accordingly, sailing over into Britain, began to inhabit the northern parts thereof..."

Look at that first sentence: "the nation of the Picts, from Scythia [by which it is generally agreed that Bede means Scandinavia]". (His brackets, not mine.) Bede never said they were from Scandinavia, people just assumed he was mistaken. If they were of Scythian roots, could they not have arrived in England via, say, the Iberian route, as the Milesians did? I find it interesting that there are also some theories out there that the Picts were Iberian, Iberia being Spain of course, or a sect of Celtic peoples, as others suggest. Anyway, there are all kinds of theories, for anyone interested here's a couple of decent pages about the Picts.

A word about the Celts, the Celts are about as well understood as the Picts. Some writers refer to the Milesians as Celts, or the Gaels as Celts, or even the Picts as a sect of Celts. Other writers strongly disagree, claiming the Celts were an entirely different peoples. Others go so far as to consider the term 'Celt' "so corrupted in the archaeological and popular literature that it is worthless."

I ran across this though...
Given the distribution of Celtic languages in southwest Europe, it is most likely that they were spread by a wave of agriculturalists who dispersed 7,000 years ago from Anatolia [central Turkey] , travelling along the north coast of the Mediterranean to Italy, France, Spain and then up the Atlantic coast to the British Isles. There is a dated archaeological trail for this. My genetic analysis shows exact counterparts for this trail both in the male Y chromosome and the maternally transmitted mitochondrial DNA right up to Cornwall, Wales, Ireland and the English south coast.


...which sounds pretty solid to me, particularly because I've been running across accounts of 'Celts' in places along the way ... Armenia, southern Gaul, etc. Either way, they seem to have arrived in Ireland and Scotland much later than the other migrations I've mentioned (Tuatha De Danaan, Picts, Milesians), possibly no earlier than the 4th century BC. (Whew.)

Another clairification, the story of Scota, daughter of the Egyptian Pharaoh Akhenaten and Nefertiti who married Mil and invaded Scotland with her sons, is somewhat controversial.

Digging around though, I ran across something interesting, a bloodline spanning from the biblical Adam to Mil, or "Galamh, also known as Milesius of Spain" written by John O'Hart, a (long deceased) Irish genealogist.

He describes Milesius:

36. Milesius, in his youth and during his father's life-time, went into Scythia, where he was kindly received by the king of that country, who gave him his daughter in marriage, and appointed him General of his forces. In this capacity Milesius defeated the king's enemies, gained much fame, and the love of all the king's subjects. His growing greatness and popularity excited against him the jealousy of the king; who, fearing the worst, resolved on privately despatching Milesius out of the way, for, openly, he dare not attempt it. Admonished of the king's intentions in his regard, Milesius slew him; and thereupon quitted Scythia and retired into Egypt with a fleet of sixty sail. Pharaoh Nectonibus [different from the other accounts whereby Akhenaten is her father], then king of Egypt, being informed of his arrival and of his great valour, wisdom, and conduct in arms, made him General of all his forces against the king of Ethiopia then invading his country. Here as in Scythia, Milesius was victorious; he forced the enemy to submit to the conqueror's own terms of peace. By these exploits Milesius found great favour with Pharaoh, who gave him, being then a widower his daughter Scota in marriage; and kept him eight years afterwards in Egypt.

During the sojourn of Milesius in Egypt, he employed the most ingenious and able persons among his people to be instructed in the several trades, arts, and sciences used in Egypt; in order to have them taught to the rest of his people on his return to Spain.

By the phrase, "on his return to Spain" I take that to mean Milesius was originally from Spain. The account of Scota found @ Wikipedia comes from the Irish chronicle Lebor Gabála Érenn, in which she is the daughter of an Egyptian Pharaoh named Cingris (a name found only in Irish legend) and marries "Niul, son of Fenius Farsaid, a Babylonian who travelled to Scythia".

As is the case so many times trying to look back thousands of years, the accounts differ. But there are some interesting clues here. In a version of John O'Hart's geneology listed at Wikipedia, Mil is descended from a string of Scythian kings, Fenius Farsa (great-grandson of Japeth), later Beouman, Ogaman and Tait. From there the line moves to "Gothia or Getulia, where Carthage was afterwards built" for a few generations (Whoh!! Does a Scythian-Phoenician connection not hit you over the head!??), then to Spain beginning with Breoghan (King of Galicia Andalusia, Murcia, Castile, and Portugal).

In the Lebor Gabála Érenn account Scota marries "Niul, son of Fenius Farsaid", who you see in John O'Hart's list appears much earlier in history. But in this account they have a son, "Goídel Glas". In John O'Hart's geneology chart as well Fenius Farsaid has a son, "Gaodhal (Gathelus)". Goídel, or Gaodhal, is the eponymous (legendary but accepted) ancestor of the Gaels. (This is where we get the term "Gaelic".)

So nomatter how you slice it, the roots of the Scots (that is, the Melisians/ Gaels) are probably overwhelmingly Scythian.

But Scotland wasn't always called Scotland, it was also once known as Caledonia. Sure sounds alot like Calydon, or the Calydonians of ancient Greece, doesn't it?

Indeed, "John", the author of 'Ladon Gog' has no compunction in referring to those 'post-Tuatha De Danaan / pre-Milesian' invaders of Northern England as the 'Calydonian Picts'.

Which speaks of Greece...
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post Jul 26 2008, 04:22 PM
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I posted earlier about the Calydonian Boar, and it's use on the Pollack and de Vere (and Bush) family crests, and talked about how the Boar was identified with Hyperborea in Greek legends. Here's a link to two Laden Gog chapters dealing with the boar, "Vere's the Ham" and
"My Calydonian Boar Hunt" (I love his chapter titles.)

While the exact location of Hyperborea is open to debate, John uses Artemis and her twin brother Apollo to fix the origin of the Boar where I suspect it belongs ...

In Greek myth, Artemis sends a boar to afflict Oeneus, king of Calydon, a descendant of Endymion. And so that's clue number one, that the boar was an Artemis peoples opposed (but not necessarily unrelated) to the Calydonians. Artemis was Apollo's twin sister, meaning that the boar originated at one time off the north shores of the Black sea.

So far, this fits nicely with all the other things we know about the Picts ... but John isn't finished scrambling our brains ...

The mythical Aetolius was the founder of Greek Calydon. The Curetes that were closely related to Zeus, and who practiced the Kabeiri cult, were in Aetolia, and no doubt spread into Calydon. Sweet Merlin the magician was likely one of these slithering snakes. The Calydon-to-Caledon migration can be traced across Italy, and I do note how Aetolia evokes "Italia." See firstly that the Calydonian peoples depicted as the daughter of Oeneus (Methoni) were the inhabitants of Methoni, the purported origin of the Gypsies, who are called variously "Gitani", "Cigani," and "Roma." The Cigani term denotes northern Italy.

The Spartan peoples depicted as "Leda" (an Artemis/Apollo peoples) came forth from Thestius, he being a Curete from Aetolia. Zeus, who was raised by Curetes and therefore likely a Curete himself, came onto Leda as a swan to produce her twins (Caster and Pollux), suggesting that the swan -- and the twins -- depict Curetes. These Greek swans removed to northern Italy.

Whenever Zeus mates with a "woman," his name can be interchanged with many alternative terms when the myth writer wants to be more geographically/ethnically specific, but they must tie back to Zeus as their father in one way or another. It is sometimes said that, instead of Zeus, it was Cycnus of Liguria (north Italy) who mated with Leda to produce those said twins, since Cycnus was depicted as a swan. That would make Caster and Pollux a Gaul peoples of northern Italy. How did they end up in Scotland? One foot after the other, and lot's of killing all the way. My heroes!

In light of the Curetes of Calydon, could it be a coincidence that in Scotland there lived the Cruithin/Cruithne? The Romans not only called the Cruithne, "Picts," but "Caledonians"!!

Allow me to try and explain some of this. First, the Curetes lived in Aetolia, where they (as per greek legend) participated in the Calydonian boar hunt.

They are best known for having protected the infant Zeus, supreme god of the Greek pantheon.

Hmmm, maybe I better start at the beginning (literally the beginning!). Uranus was the original ruler of the Universe, but he was a lousy father, hiding his children (the Hecatoncheires, Cyclopes and Titans - all by intercourse with Uranus' his own mother, Gaia) in the underworld. The youngest of these children, the Titan Chronos (Saturn in the Roman stories from where we get Saturday, Satan, and Satyr is Chronos of Greece), lops off his father's genitals and throws them in the sea, displacing his father as ruler of the Universe.

The correlation with the Osiris myth in which Osiris is torn into pieces and scattered around Egypt by Seth, whereby Isis reconstitutes the body with the exception of the genitals which have been eaten by fish, is obvious.

It turns out Chronos was not such a nice father either, you may have seen Goya's seminal painting, "Saturn Devouring One of his Children." http://www.astrococktail.com/images/saturn%20350a.jpg

Chronos' wife, Rhea, was tired of having children only to have her husband eat them, and so tricks Chronos by feeding him a stone disquised in clothing. She hides Zeus in Crete (the island in between Phoenicia and Greece), and summons the Curetes from Phrygia (middle of Anatolia, or modern Turkey), who come and hide the cries of the infant by banging their swords and shields in a frenzied dance.

The Curetes are closely associated with, or may be identical to, the Dactyls, the Corybante, and the Kabeiri. The Corybante are sometimes identified as a Caucasus people:

CORYBANTES ... have been called attendants of Rhea, identified as Cybele, the Mother of the Gods worshipped in Phrygia, and guardians of Dionysus in his growing days. It is also told that the CORYBANTES, came from Colchis (today Georgia in the Caucasus).

...but the Curetes & Dactyls (the Curetes might have been Dactyls, or vice versa) and the Kabeiri are all said to originate from Phrygia. Collectively these closely related (or identical) tribes were known for their "war-dances, noise, cymbals, drums ... dancing and <s> religious frenzy and worship [of] the Mother of the Gods with orgies (from the above source). Here the Dactyls are also credited with the discovery of Iron and metal smelting and described as "mysterious sorcerers":

The tradition ...describes them as the earliest inhabitants of Crete, and as having gone thither ... from Phrygia, and as having discovered the iron in mount Berecynthus. (Diod. v. 64; Cic. de Nat. Deor. iii. 16.) With regard to the real nature of the Dactyls, they seem to be no more than the mythical representatives of the discoverers of iron and of the art of smelting metals with the aid of fire, for the importance of this art is sufficiently great for the ancients to ascribe its invention to supernatural beings. ...they are said to have discovered various other things ... to have introduced music from Phrygia into Greece, to have invented rhythm ... in general looked upon as mysterious sorcerers...

One other point of interest, Laden-Gog author John identifies Dactyl (altenately Dactyloi) as a word combining Dagon (the Phoenician patriarch god & father of Baal), and Tylos ... Tylos is Dilmun, or modern Bahrain, the resort-home of the ancient gods of Sumer.

Please bear with me, soon all of this stuff will tie together. (It's quite incredible, really.)

Rhea, the mother of Zeus who summoned the Curetes to Crete, is often identified with Cybele (Kybele), the Great Mother goddess worshipped in Phrygia. The Phrygian Kabeiri-Curetes worshipped this goddess, and a popular cult grew up around her and her mortal consort, Attis, which spread in Greece and later became so popular in Rome that the cult of Kybele became part of state sanctioned religion in the Roman Empire.

When I recently learned of this cult I immediately recalled the Viking goddess Frija (also known as Freyja, Frig or Freya, the wife of Woden). I never doubted that Tiw or Tyr, the Viking god of war and government and the origin of our word for Tuesday, reveals a Phoenician branch of Viking roots. So could Frija, the origin of our word for Friday btw, honor a Phrygian branch? And if so, could a third branch, rooted in the Tribe of Dan and/or Danaus of Greece manifest in the name of the Viking king-god Woden? Scholars tell us the Vikings originated in Scythia, while the Curetes and Corybante are alternately described as hailing from Phrygia and the Caucasus (Colchis), respectively. The Caucasus is the gate between the Black and Caspian seas leading from the middle east into Scythia, through which the tribes of northern Isreal (such as Dan and Naphtali) probably migrated there. Further cementing the connection is the legend of the Calydonian boar hunt, and the references (via Artemis) connecting the Curetes (who hunted the boar) to Hyperborea and/or Scythia.

This idea fits perfectly with passages I found in two of John's chapters, one, incredibly, about the VIkings:

...the Calydonians important to the boar hunt, and whom I think were a part of the boar line, were also on the Argo ship to retrieve the [Golden] Fleece (from Colchis), which Fleece depicted the Phryxus peoples simply because it was he who rode to Colchis on the golden ram from which the fleece was taken and then granted to Aeetes. One could certainly envision a Calydon-Phryxus blood connection, supporting my discovery that the Phrygians were the boar peoples.
In reality, this code means that a migration of certain Phrygians to Colchis occurred... Since the ram was Hermes, we can also know that the Phryxus Phrygians were among those who named the Hermus river near the Lydian capital (Sardis). But who were they? The Halybes, said to have the alternative designation, "Khaldi," are suspect because I just realized that "Calydon" and "Khaldi" are near matches. This points to the Kabeiri/Kybele cult, the Cutha Hebrews, from Chaldee.

And the other from his "Calydonian Boar Hunt" chapter, which touches on the Caduceus, the staff enrapped by two snakes carried by Hermes (a symbol used today by the medical profession).

Before I quote that passage though, allow me point out who Cadmus (same derivation as Caduceus) was. He was a Phoenician prince (which is why Hermes - same derivation as Hermon - carries the Caduceus staff) who's sister, Europa is stolen by Zeus. Cadmus goes off to find her but fails, and instead winds up in Boeotia (where he will found Thebes) - and a nearby spring guarded by a dragon which kills his mates. Cadmus slays the dragon and, on the advice of the goddess Athena, plants its teeth in the ground. From these dragon's teeth grow the Spartans. Cadmus and his wife Harmonia later turn into dragons themselves. Can you ask for a clearer allegory than that!?? Europa represents Phoenicians that have left for parts north, Cadmus represents others who travelled to Greece, where the dragon bloodline is reborn.

And on we search ...

Update June 2006 -- I'm much "smarter" now to the illustrations set forth by the myth wizards. Knowing now that "Aphrodite" was code for "Abiru," and that Hermes was code for Armenia, I think the secret meaning of the two snakes (of the caduceus) is a Hebrew-Aryan mix. Only one of the two snakes was depicted as male, logically (I don't know which yet), and the idea of a man being able to turn into a woman (or vice versa) had to do with the utter fusing of the Hebrews with Aryans...

When he connects Hermes to the Armenians, remember that Armenia was once a much larger place. If the Kingdom of Phrygia were marked on this map below, it would be centered about where 'Anatolia' is marked in the left pink region (modern Turkey) and extend to the borders of Armenia during it's heyday. While not represented below, under Tigran the Great the Armenian kingdom in the 1st century BC extended all the way down to Tyre and Mount Hermon.

This idea of the staff of Caducius being an allegory for a Hebrew-Aryan mix is remarkable, and I ascribe a lot of weight to what this man writes. But I'm not sure that the two snakes twisted around Herme's staff don't represent much more.

Attis, Cybele's consort, is mentioned in Zeitgeist for his connection to the Christ story - Attis, (unlike Horus) actually dies and is resurrected in the legend (albeit as a pine tree - an "ever-green"). If you spend any time looking over family crests, you will find this pine-tree from time to time, it sticks out like a sore thumb among the many dragons, unicorns, lions, boars and the like. I never knew what it meant - before now.

- On Attis and the Kybele cult:

...there are parallel and over-lapping forms of this cult, the name of the god, and certain details of the ritual, may differ in different countries but whether he hails from Babylon, Phrygia, or Phoenicia, whether he be called Tammuz, Attis, or Adonis, the main lines of the story are fixed, and invariable. Always he is young and beautiful, always the beloved of a great goddess; always he is the victim of a tragic and untimely death, a death which entails bitter loss and misfortune upon a mourning world, and which, for the salvation of that world, is followed by a resurrection. Death and Resurrection, mourning and rejoicing, present themselves in sharp anti-thesis in each and all of the forms.
We know the god best as Adonis, for it was under that name that, though not originally Greek he became known to the Greek world, was adopted by them with ardour, carried by them to Alexandria, where his feast assumed the character of a State solemnity; under that name his story has been enshrined in Art, and as Adonis he is loved and lamented to this day. The Adonis ritual may be held to be the classic form of the cult.
But in Rome, the centre of Western civilization, it was otherwise: there it was the Phrygian god who was in possession; the dominating position held by the cult of Attis and the Magna Mater [Kybele], and the profound influence exercised by that cult over better known, but subsequently introduced, forms of worship, have not, so far, been sufficiently realized.

...The orgiastic ritual of the priests of Kybele made at first little appeal to the more disciplined temperament of the Roman population. By degrees, however, it won its way, and by the reign of Claudius had become so popular that that emperor instituted public feasts in honour of Kybele and Attis...

The above article touches on the death/resurrection part of the story, but doesn't mention the "tragedy" that befell Attis.

Cybele drove him mad and he castrated himself.

So what'ya think the Cybele (Kabeiri) priests, sometimes called the "Galli", did to themselves? That's right, snip snip, and from there on wore women's clothes. When John writes in Laden Gog that "Sweet Merlin the magician was likely one of these slithering snakes", this is what he is talking about. These priests didn't, by the way, adopt a life of celebacy after gelding themselves. They um, er, well, adapted to their newly found sexuality.

And there's another word we get from Hermes/Hermon. Hermaphrodite!!! Remember the true meaning of the Seal of Solomon, the intertwined triangles? Union of good and evil, of male and female?

And finally we get to the cherry on top of the whipped cream on top of the cake. This is not my discovery, it is the anonomous John's, author of 'Laden Gog'. He writes that he was absolutely giddy when he uncovered this.

In order to ascribe the proper weight to his relevation, please remember the various loose ends I have been trying to tie together - The Phoenicians, merchant anscestors of the Greeks full of snakes and their paternal god Dagon and centered around Mt. Hermon and Baal worship; the Scythians, who's culture was possibly as old as the Sumerians with whom the Phoenicians traded, who produced the line of Mil who, after marrying an Egyptian princess produced sons in Spain that would conquer Scotland, and who lied in the line of migration between the Levant/Anatolia/Mesopotamia and Scandinavia (from where the Viking conquerors of medieval France and Britain would emerge); the Phrygian Curetes, who brought their Kybele cult to Greece (where they became the Calydonians) and finally emerged in Scotland as the Picts/Caledonians/Cruithne, arriving maybe by way of Scythia and Scandinavia or maybe, as their Scythian friends the Milesians, by way of Spain. I have been saying Spain, simply because I wondered if some readers might not quite follow me if I referred to the "Iberian peninsula", which is more correct. Of course the vast majority of the Iberian peninsula is in fact modern Spain, but the Portugese might not be so pleased to have been left out of my narrative, and maybe I was foolish not to do so. Where did the Templar Knights flee when Phillip IV started to arrest and burn them for heresy? To Scotland, and to PORTUGAL. (Where they knew they had friends.)

Finally, from John:

"I would like to share with you how fantastic the information in this chapter came to me on the evening of June 20th. I had "sort of" believed that Sheba and Dedan (grandsons of Abraham, Genesis 25) had much to do with both the Kabala and Scandinavian peoples, but when the information herein came to be, I realized how shallow was that belief until then. As it began to sink in, I went out to my porch; I looked up into the sky, and talked to God, "Are you showing this to me? Have you shown this to anyone else, or am I the first person ever to know? ...

Last evening, I was searching houseofnames.com for any evidence to support my case that the Kabeiri were Kabalists. I searched the "Cabeiro" surname first of all, and lo I was given a list of alternatives/septs including: Caballero, Caballe, Caballeria, Caballo, Cavallo, Cavallon, and more. I realize that these terms look like "cavallo," the Latin word for horse ("caballo" in Spanish), meaning that it may have nothing to do with the Kabala. I found it interesting, however, that the website's explanation on the family roots tells that the surnames listed are based on knight servitude. That of course evoked the Templars.[!!!]... "

He goes on, and you can read the details for yourself if you like, here in "Sheba Conquers Kybele" http://www.tribwatch.com/sheba.htm

But the jist of it is, the wild, drunken, drum beating cult of Cybele (Kybele), the self-castrating Galli priests, the child roasting Phoenicians and Amorites (the Amorites lived just east of Israel and Phoenicia - Molech who the Bohemian campers venerate in northern California every year is an Amorite god), the Templars, the Freemasons who the Templar order apparently evolved into, whose rites revolve around the Egyptian god Osiris, who's lost "penis" you can find in the obelisks decorating the City of London, Washington and the Vatican, the Kabbalists of Chaldea Carthage and Greece, (and the Cathars of southern France) were all one big happy family.

The male-female merging dual triangles also evoke 'order out of chaos' - which should give you a hint as to why these leaders of ours who don black robes to watch mock sacrifices at Bohemian Grove in August are so frikken dangerous. And why the banking Templars and Priory of Sion "keepers" and Christ-blood Merovingians, despite being portrayed in certain books and a certain Hollywood film as heroic and holy and nice, represent the link between the worst the Greek and biblical worlds had to offer, and our own elite.

EDIT: Hey, I just had a burger at TGIF ... and looked at the establishment's name on the red-white striped menu and suddenly I had to laugh. I'll never be able to think of that phrase, "Thank God it's Friday" (Phry-day - let's party!!!) the same again. ;)
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post Jul 26 2008, 07:50 PM
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Hi Sanders,

There's a program on the pHistory Channel right now on the US cable History Channel- "Quest for Dragons." You might want to keep a watch for it.

More info:



Feel free to delete this note if you want.
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post Jul 27 2008, 01:27 AM
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Thanks Dmole ! thumbsup.gif

How could different cultures, isolated by geology and millennia, all invent the same creature? If the dragon is simply the product of our imagination, how could distant peoples, with no knowledge of each other, all invent the same beast?

Haha. Well, we know the answer to that mystery now, don't we. wink.gif

Still, the History Channel overall does a pretty good job with these topics, this is a must-see for me. Thanx for the tip! yes1.gif thumbsup.gif
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post Jul 27 2008, 04:21 AM
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OMG blink.gif

How did I miss this, CADMUS, the Phoenician prince who slew the dragon and founded Thebes in Greek myths, was an EGYPTIAN !!!

Cadmus is credited for having brought words and thoughts to the whole of Hellas... This, they say, he had learnt from the Egyptians, for his father Agenor 1 had lived nine years in Memphis and founded Egyptian Thebes. And besides writing, Cadmus became acquainted in Egypt with astronomy, learning the course of the sun, the measure of the earth, and the phases of the moon.

The ancient Greek records of Hecateus of Abdera, a Greek historian and philosopher of the 4th century B.C., say:
“The most distinguished of the expelled foreigners followed Danaus and Cadmus from Egypt; but the greater number were led by Moses into Judæa.”

And besides his sister Europa, Cadmus had a brother, Phoenix !

The shared roots of the place-name Phoenicia and the Phoenix, a mythical bird that rises from the ashes, should be obvious. Incredibly, in China the Phoenix and the Dragon are partners and often depicted together ...

Here, Feng Shui Bestbuy ( laugh.gif ) gives us the dope on the Dragon and the Phoenix ...

Dragon has an imperial and unsurpassed status. The chinese emperors called themselves the dragons which shows how diving and prestigious they were being considered. The Dragon brings upon the essence of life, in the form of its celestial breath, known to many as sheng chi. He has the ability to blow out cosmic "chi" from his breath...
...The dragon is in charge of the east quadrant of the heaven and represents sunrise, good beginning and hope....

Meanwhile, Phoenix is the goddess of all the winged creatures. ...This heavenly bird will harvest opportunity luck, success and prosperity. ... Since it is associated to the south corner, its presence brings you fame and popularity...

Put together, the Dragon and Phoenix is the symbol of ultimate yin and yang and perfect feng shui. The Dragon is symbol of male vigour and fertility. The Phoenix symbolizes yin splendour and female beauty...

I'd better stop, in searching around for info about the Phoenix bird I keep getting links about Quetzalcoatl, the Aztec feathered serpent god...
The Feathered Serpent deity was important in art and religion in most of Mesoamerica for close to 2,000 years, from the Pre-Classic era until the Spanish Conquest. Civilizations worshiping the Feathered Serpent included the Olmec, the Mixtec, the Toltec, the Aztec, and the Maya.

And if I think too much about this Dragon blood-line showing up in Mexico and Central America 2500 years ago (which I'm sure it must, given the step pyramids, astrological knowlege, human sacrifice rituals and other similarities that appear to connect the various Meso-america indians with ancient pagan cultures), or how it managed to slither over there, I think my head will explode. tongue.gif
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post Jul 28 2008, 02:17 PM
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If I said that Dracula was connected up with all this, you'd probably laugh and ask me what I was smokin'.

But guess what.......? tongue.gif

The inspiration for the story of Dracula was Vlad Tepes, or Vlad III the Impaler, a Romanian prince of Walachia who's father, Vlad II, was an illegitimate son of Mircea, of the House of Basarab. Walachia was ruled at that time by Hungary, and Vlad II was sent (possibly first as a hostage) to the house of the Holy Roman Emperor Sigismund I, King of Hungary, where he spent his formative years as a page. He was well accepted there and invited to join Sigismund's Order of the Dragon, from where Vlad aquired the name Dracul. His son, Vlad III, was therefore referred to as son of Dracul, or Dracul-a, and went on to become the feared Vlad Tepes, Prince of Walachia.

Sigismund is sometimes represented as a king of the Merovingian line, but when I started poking around trying to find some confirmation, I got nothing. The problem is, Sigismund was a Germanic Holy Roman Emperor, and those guys (at first glance) seem to be totally separate from the Frankish Kings.

The Frankish Kings went through two main dynasties, the Merovingians (who first united Gaul), and the Carolingians. This is somewhat interesting because there is actually, I and many believe, a continuous bloodline that connects the two, the main difference between the dynasties was sort of a renegotiation of the Frankish kings' relationship with the Church of Rome, to take poetic liberties. The Merovingians appear to have maintained a tentative alliance with the Church, but there were fatal differences in the way the two operated . The Merovingians condoned hereditery or "messianic" succession while the Church promoted "Apostolic" succession. Essentially, the Merovingians, as did the Davidic kings they claimed to be descended from, transferred power via the blood-line, whereas in the Church it was transfered by ordination. Also there was the obvious little problem that, while the Merovingians beginning with Clovis had converted to Christianity, they were basically Kabbalistic pagans, while the Church at the time suffered, I believe, from a strong identity with the solar-cult of Aton, those two traditions having been anathema to one another since the ruinous reign of the Egyptian Pharaoh Akhenaton who tried to force Atonism on the Egyptians of the 18th dynasty. I am starting to see that a struggle between these two schools, the solar-cult of Aton and the pagan Kabbalists (neither of which many people know much or anything about ironically), has played a significant role throughout history. IMO (still digging).

Anyway, after nearly three centuries of rule there came a period of inept or unremarkable Merovingian rulers, during which time power gradually transferred to the "Mayors of the Palace"...

The Merovingian kings of the Franks had become mere puppets in
the hands of their "Mayors of the Palace," in league with the bishops of Rome. At last "Pepin addressed to the pope the suggestive question: 'In regard to the Kings of the Franks who no longer possess the royal power, is this state of things proper?'
... Pope Zacharias replied that such a state of things was not ... proper -- [that "he should be king who possessed the royal power"].


(This looks like a pretty good article btw, I've been digging into this stuff for almost 2 years now and I knew that Rome played a significant role in the switch from the Merovingian line to the Carolingian line, yet very few pages yeilded by my search a minute ago recognised that little detail - oh, how the truth is hidden from us ... I haven't read all of that piece yet - but I will - after which I'll probably have to edit a bunch of this post doh1.gif )

...and so a Rome-sanctioned version of the Frankish Kings proceeded, with Charles Martel, Pepin the Short, the illustrious Charlemagne and his sons and their anscestors ... but the Merovingian line may well have continued through the back door, via the wife of Pepin, Bertrada "broadfoot" de Laon.

As one would expect, much of the data is spotty and certain critical facts are unknowable. But we have to work with what info we can get ahold of (alot like 9/11, eh??). Bertrada "broadfoot" de Laon's descendency from the Merovingians is somewhat controversial (the problem is with her grandmother Bertha of Prum btw). But, considering later events, I'll err on the side of conventional wisdom that the line continued.

So, assuming we have established descendency from the Merovingian line to the Carolingian line (of Charlemagne), that doesn't get us to the Germanic Emperors of which Sigismund was one of.

The Germanic Emperors leading to Sigismund are as follows:

Otto I • Otto II • Otto III • Henry II • Conrad II • Henry III • Henry IV • Henry V • Lothair II • Frederick I • Henry VI • Otto IV • Frederick II • Henry VII • Louis IV • Charles IV • Sigismund.

Sigismund sounds AWFULLY Merovingian to me, and I had read that he was a Merovingian so many times that I couldn't believe he wasn't descended from that lot, especially having stumbled on to the bit about his "Order of the Dragon" that Vlad the Impaler's father was an inductee into. But I couldn't find the connection. ... until I googled Otto I the Great (Duke of Saxony, King of Germany, King of Italy), the first of the Holy Roman Emperors. Otto was the son of Henry the Fowler!

Henry the Fowler's mother was Hedwiga, a great-great grand-daughter of Charlemagne. THERE's the Merovingian connection.

But I'm doubly pleased by this discovery ... because Henry the Fowler, on his father's side, is descended from Vikings as well - Woden in fact (see geneology above).

(This same blending of Viking and Merovingian blood resulted in the Royal lines that so dominated Europe, and, a century and a half after Henry the Fowler, conquered England.)
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post Jul 29 2008, 05:50 AM
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QUOTE (Sanders @ Jul 28 2008, 01:17 PM) *
(This looks like a pretty good article btw, I've been digging into this stuff for almost 2 years now and I knew that Rome played a significant role in the switch from the Merovingian line to the Carolingian line, yet very few pages yeilded by my search a minute ago recognised that little detail - oh, how the truth is hidden from us ... I haven't read all of that piece yet - but I will - after which I'll probably have to edit a bunch of this post doh1.gif )

...and so a Rome-sanctioned version of the Frankish Kings proceeded, with Charles Martel, Pepin the Short, the illustrious Charlemagne and his sons and their anscestors ... but the Merovingian line may well have continued through the back door, via the wife of Pepin, Bertrada "broadfoot" de Laon.

(This same blending of Viking and Merovingian blood resulted in the Royal lines that so dominated Europe, and, four centuries before Sigismund, conquered England.)

Hi Sanders,

I think you have missed a few details (but maybe I missed them up-thread in my quick scan)- how about the Teutonic Knights or the Livonian "Brotherhood of the Sword?" The last young woman that I met from Riga was WELL WORTH throwing over one's shoulder- errr... ARRRRGH!!! wink.gif


There is also a related group that used a black motif, rather than a red one on their shields, but I can't recall that denomination right now.

There is evidence that the "northern" Germanic tribes actually went back to the "Viking stone age," and this predates Bibles, Egypt, papyrus, Scythia, Babylon, etc. We might need to delve into Michael Cremo's work here though. Incidentally, there was an extremely heavy rune-engraved Viking longboat anchor stone found in WTF--Oklahoma--WTF??? of all places.

In my research wondering what exactly the role of the "camera-shy" Norwegian Vikings was, I discovered that depending upon the time-frame and marriage, the Norwegian and Danish [Vy-]Kingdoms were actually one and the same. Now you want to talk about a "bad neighborhood"- try Vikings to both the east and west, with the Arctic Circle to the north, and the North Sea to the south- that's what the Swedish Vikings endured. Strangely there is little record of the Swedish and the Dan/Norw-VyKings fighting each other (maybe you simply didn't attack another ship with red/white striped sails)...

Now the Hun thing is interesting too. Let's not forget Attila and his horde. Hungarians aren't far behind the Russian Mafiya in the underworld "fear factor" either.

Why did those Roman legions apparently avoid the "barbarian" [and "bastard"-Norman- that's worth digging into] lands exactly?

I haven't provided sources above because research into the ancient "oral traditons" often leads to words like "ballad, legend, myth, legacy, ode, tale, yarn, rune," etc. Official "history" will only take one back so far...
Names like "... the Short," "...broadfoot...," "Red Cloud," - Yup, those are 95+% likely Viking (or else Native North American).

Also, that first Viking invasion at "Eastumbria" apparently led to the oldest Scottish Gunn Clan (later followed by the Mackay [or Mackey wink.gif ] Clan(s). Based upon the founding of Dublin circa 1060 A.D., I would assume these were all Dan/Norwg "operations."
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post Jul 29 2008, 08:09 AM
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Yeah, I read about the Oklahoma thing. Vikings left some evidence of their presence in Minnesota too.

It's fortunate you brought up those things, I've been trying to read up more on the Vikings and Templars. Great info - I had no idea there was an Order like that way up there in Riga. I'll have to look in to them.

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post Jul 29 2008, 01:09 PM
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I want to thank you again, dMole, Riga appears to be quite the overlooked but important little corner, obviously part of the Viking world. Not only that, but looking into it led me to a great summary of a book by the author ... I don't think I'll have to pull my hair out like I did tracing the Scottish invasions, this guy has done all the work, and I am impressed.


This is the second writer I have read who describes the Vikings as descendents of refugees of the Trojan war, who thus fled from Troy to the east, specifically to the areas around the Black Sea (possibly their homelands) where they remained for some time, until parting from there in a mass migration to Scandinavia. The key word in that sentence is TROY.

I did a bunch of research into the Merovingian/Viking/Templar connections once before, and while I did make a bit of headway, I was confused most of the time and kept going back and forth as to whether to root the Templars in the Kabbalist culture that eminated from Laquedoc in the south of France, i.e. the Counts of Anjou, Cathars, etc., or the edges of Viking influence in the north. I concluded it was both. But I missed something - the original leaders of the Templars were allegedly from Champagne ...

...which was not always called that - the original name for the region was TROYES. (!)
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post Jul 29 2008, 09:59 PM
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Thanks Sanders,

I don't think that author is looking far enough back in the "Wayback Machine", but the "kiwis" might find this bit enlightening:

"Some historians believe that a people later known by the name Eruls (or Erils or Heruls, depending on how you read the runes) lived in Zealand" Yep- zeeland (read: sea-land), like Norland(er), or NorMan.


EDIT: "Eruls (or Erils or Heruls)" == EARLS perhaps??
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