The Dragon Blood-line Options

[CocaineImportAge...]

..."...the Dragon represents the two races of Atlantis, who contend for hegemony everywhere. They are the Twins of all mythologies, the two contending serpents of the Caduceus ( Ouroboros and Uraeus ) which devour each other in endless wars from the primordial ages down to the present day"

......Prof` Arysio Nunes Dos Santos.


...i just flicked through Atlantis Alien Visitation and Genetic Manipulation and found the part in Chapter 14 on disc 1... he says the reference to the claws, wings, scales and breath of the Dragon are a composite of the four states of consciousness and the four elements..... and that the Dragon itself is the fifth element!?!

...to add another Dragon curiosity!

...the Welsh Flag...

(IMG:http://www.bushi-ryu.com/custom/Welsh%20Flag%20jpeg.jpg)

...and why would a website about Welsh Witchcraft carry a link to the Georgia Guidestones?

....Welsh Witchcraft


...Georgia Guidestones

This post has been edited by CocaineImportAgency: Aug 20 2008, 11:58 PM

[Omega892R09]

...and why would a website about Welsh Witchcraft carry a link to the Georgia Guidestones?

....Welsh Witchcraft

Thanks CIA, an interesting link that and behind this one is more that some folk around here should read:

http://www.dynionmwyn.net/environ/environ2.html

You see anthropogenic climate change deniers there is more to it than you think.

The UN/IPCC is not telling you just how bad it could be.

PS. If mods want to move this post then I am cool with that but I had to drop it here for continuity.

This post has been edited by Omega892R09: Aug 21 2008, 12:26 PM

[Sanders]

[Disclaimer:

I wrote the posts in this thread (those under my name) as I embarked on a path of research, motivated purely by an intense curiosity, and I marked my discoveries along the way here in this thread. I was fascinated by the use of occult symbology in our media (and other clues), and the more I investigated the more I saw that the history, in fact "world-view" that we have all been told to accept is mostly balony. (I stand by that 100%.) However I concluded too fast that there was a linear connection between the self-annointed managers of our country (and, to a large and increasing degree, our planet) and an ancient "dragon" culture. And I have (somewhat mistakenly) described this culture as of a "conquering" nature in many of my posts. While I learned a great deal on my search for answers, and while the reader might find some of my posts interesting, I have discovered that my overriding view of the big picture was wrong.

The true dragons were a wise and just sub-race of Kings and Queens of antiquity, and they have been all but gone for a thousand years - exterminated by the Church and her clients, the long string of usurpers who traded loyalty to Rome in return for its (fraudulent) recognition of kinghood. The Templars were not dragons (I don't think), they were rather a military arm of the dragons, from whom they split and pursued their own interests. William the Conqueror may have had some dragon blood in him, but he was first a warrior and his loyalties lied with his own power-grab - he killed many true "dragons" (the elven Picts) during his brutal subjugation of the north of England - and, the descendents of his warrior co-usurpers from Normandy, "bully-boys" as they have been described, who comprised the moneyed-elite of America throughout much of its history, were no better despite their claims of blue-bloodedness. Far worse are the bankers, often the descendents of those Norman colonists, who have taken their place. None of these people who have caused so much anquish in pursuit of their own monetary gain throughout modern history are "true" dragons, though I suspect they cling to imagined thread-thin connections to those ancient families, while they have hijacked the symbology and 'religion' (for lack of a better word) of the ancient cults in pursuit of their own bloated vision of themselves as overlords of us "stupid sheep".

If you want to know about the true "dragon blood-line", don't bother with my drivel, read instead "The Dragon Legacy" or any other of the works of Nicholas de Vere.]

(IMG:http://www.bushi-ryu.com/custom/Welsh%20Flag%20jpeg.jpg)

...and why would a website about Welsh Witchcraft carry a link to the Georgia Guidestones?

Because everything's connected !!! (IMG:style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif)


The whole Arthurian legends come into play when you dig into the Welsh, or "Red" branch of the dragon-line. I haven't looked into it much yet.

[grizz]

My high weirdness buddy was over last night and we were looking at this thread, which sparked a conversation about the Georgia Guidestones. He pointed out that the man who commissioned the monument was named R C Christian - Rosicrucian.

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/trip.gif)

Indeed Sanders, everything is connected.

[dMz]

Sanders, you GOTTA see the "Dark Ages" program on the US pHistory Channel right now (west coast).

Clovis, Constantine, Rome- the gang's all here!

http://www.history.com/marquee.do?marquee_id=53127

[Sanders]

Sanders, you GOTTA see the "Dark Ages" program on the US pHistory Channel right now (west coast).

Clovis, Constantine, Rome- the gang's all here!

http://www.history.com/marquee.do?marquee_id=53127

Thanx dMole, unfortunately, I'm a little farther west than the west coast (Japan). Looks great, I hope I get a chance to watch it. Ironically, I'm about to post something I've been working on that explores a pretty mind-blowing little detail about Charlemagne and the Frankish kings. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[dMz]

You're really missing out Sanders- right now it's "Barbarians: Huns" from 2004.

http://www.genreonline.net/Barbarians_History_Channel.html

That earlier "Dark Ages" program covered the Vikings extensively, and closed with a hint that the Knights were actually thugs paid by the Lords/Earls/Dukes to harass/imtimidate the serfs. I don't recall hearing that bit before (other than in a Crusades context against the Moslems).

EDIT: It just occurred to me that the word "hunting" likely derives from Hun.

Also, the pHistory Channel "Huns" were depicted riding with an owl? atop a fasces-like pole.

It was also interesting that the medieval church defined exactly who was or wasn't a "barbarian"- anyone who didn't tithe to the church...

[Sanders]

DMole, I don't know if you caught it in the "Margaret" post, but Andrew and George (the Arpad line) traced back to Attila the Hun. Hey, as they say, nice guys finish last. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)


If that "Huns" episode was from 2004, maybe there's some of it up on Youtube - I'll check. Really want to watch that stuff. Thanx again for the tip (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/salute.gif)

[dMz]

They ran 3 of those older History Channel "Barbarians" programs tonight: Huns, Goths, then Vikings.

It was interesting that the Goths were originally a peaceful agrarian culture, forced into the Roman Empire by Hun raids. After part of the Goths joined the Roman Empire, they were allegedly promised food and land (but this was never delivered, and the Goths were starved for about 3 years).

Then there was a Goth revolt (the part that the Goths were known for).

The Viking one had several historical inaccuracies (from my research), but was pretty good overall.

[Sanders]

...He pointed out that the man who commissioned the monument was named R C Christian - Rosicrucian.

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/doh1.gif)

Well, Rosicrucianism was allegedly founded in the 14th century by a guy named Christian Rosenkranz. But these are just made-up names. They do this to hide the truth while flaunting it in our face. Regarding my above double-post about princess Margaret, why did they honor the Hungarians Andrew and George by naming the crosses of Scotland and England after them, then cover it up by attaching the made-up stories of St. George and St. Andrew? If they didn't want us to know that the kings and queens of Scotland & England were connected (through Hungary) to the Magyars, Kabars and Varangian Rus of the East, then why didn't they just keep it quiet, why did they "advertise it" on the flags of the two countries? Because they can't help themselves!

I posted in a different thread about the Georgian flag/Templar Cross of Jerusalem, and spoke about the pagan origins of the use of 4 small crosses in the quadrants between the arms of a larger (superior) cross. This is a perfect example of a pagan concept being passed off under the auspices of a supposedly Christian symbol. Heck, they might as well have just put the four playing card suits in there, those evolved from the four treasures of the the Tuatha de Danaan (by way of the Tarot), which correllate/merged with the four elements or four winds, which the four small crosses of the Templar/Georgian flag represent, lol.

(IMG:http://img240.imageshack.us/img240/4999/suitcrossxd7.png)

I meant to discuss all that business here in this thread, but I'll just post a link to it instead ...
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10749906

Obviously, they love to flaunt this stuff ... all in plain view. I just realised that the mermaid with two tails on the Starbucks logo is Melissena, the Byzantine princess who was the matriarch of the Bruce clan and who's lineage figured prominantly in the noble families of Europe and Scotland (and by extension England). She is depicted in medieval legend as Melusine, a half sea-serpent who captures the heart of Raymond, either de Lusignan or de Vere (depending on the version) - and made it onto the Starbucks logo. But the logo's been changed ... Were too many people curious and her likeness was too close for comfort - so the logo was made more subtle, where you can't tell right off that those are her two tails that she is grasping in her hands? Or maybe I'm over-thinking it - maybe the original was just too erotic? Either way, that's Melusine.

(IMG:http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/1525/picture4hp3.png)

They place a giant Egyptian penis symbol in the middle of Washington DC, they build a big ugly glass pyramid in the center of the Louvre. They glorify their ancestors in legends and tell and re-tell Greek myths about their roots in countless guises. These stories fill our books and movies - but never is it revealed what they are really about. The stories are always clothed in allegory, even our history is sanitized, the key connections (that would otherwise make the history of the world really interesting) safely dedacted, lest we know what "they" know.

You could write a whole book about the meanings hidden in the stories told to our children by Walt Disney, long held to be a major Illumanist. Did you know that the plays of Shakespeare, great as they are, were most likely written by Rosicrucians? William Shakespeare, the actor, could barely write his own name, much less Hamlet. It's sometimes said that all of the decent plots can be traced back to Shakespeare. Well, those stories were probably written by Rosicrucians, possibly by a small group of them led by Francis Bacon, or, as per a competing version, by Edward de Vere (!!!!), who may not even have been a de Vere at all, but a bastard child of Queen Elizabeth's brought up in the de Vere house. Who knows, the point is, the author of the Shakespere plays was a highly educated member of the "dragon" elite, and the stories are loosely based on real events.

Do you think Madonna knows what Kabbalah mysticism is really all about, do you think she knows that Chaldean Kabbalah birthed the orgastic sacrifice-ritual practicing cult of Cybelle, with their Galli priests who manifested the union of male and female through castration? Heavens no!!! Considering the royalty of the entertainment industry who she rubs shoulders with, who constantly inject the symbols and stories of the ancient elite (along with all of the other subtle propoganda) into our culture, is it by pure coincidence that she got into Kabbalah mysticism? I'd bet no. And now that I think about it, who's idea was it to call her "Madonna" in the first place, really???

And who is "they", by the way? Is it a massive multi-tiered organization that "Svali" who I mentioned in the first post in this thread describes, referred to by some as the "illuminati"? I don't know, I suspect that that nomenclature continues to be propogated in order to confuse and conceal. But, and maybe I am crazy, whoever they are they sure seem to leave a trail, flooding our culture with symbols and stories that appear to all "fit", once you start to identify the roots of the so-called ruling elite.

I wanted to post something, I almost did a couple of times, I wrote it up and trashed it, wrote it up again and trashed it again. The problem is, it involves some supposition and touches on religion. "Touches" might be the wrong word ... "turns on its head" might be more accurate. However, what I want to dive into constitutes a big piece of this puzzle IMO and I think I should attempt to cover it.

CIA posted something a few posts back that caught my eye...

"...the Dragon represents the two races of Atlantis, who contend for hegemony everywhere. They are the Twins of all mythologies, the two contending serpents of the Caduceus ( Ouroboros and Uraeus ) which devour each other in endless wars from the primordial ages down to the present day"
- Prof` Arysio Nunes Dos Santos.

I can't speak to Atlantis, all I know about it is the Greeks spoke of it and people have been looking for it and arguing if it ever existed ever since. But the bit about "two contending serpents" piqued my interest, because I am slowly catching on that there were TWO major and distinct branches to the dragon blood-line.

The first is the "Gogi" branch. "Gogi" is a term used by Ladon-Gog author John, referring to Black Sea region peoples, often represented in Greek myths via connection with the twins Apollo and Artemis. Most of these peoples passed through or inhabited the Caucasus at one time or another, and include the Vikings, Scythian peoples, the Picts, the Goths, and related Saxons and Franks. (I tried to trace the migrations of some of these peoples earlier in the thread.) This branch can be thought of as representing a "Rus" element in the "rose-line".

The second branch undoubtedly connects to the first at their common root, probably in ancient Mesopotamia, but passes through Egypt. From there it splits, one branch going north to Greece and two others doubling back to the Levant (basically). Danaus of Greek legend (also mentioned in historical records) represents peoples that migrated from Egypt to Rhodes (an island off of the southwestern shore of Anatolia near Greece), providing a "Rhodian" element in the concept of the "rose-line". From Rhodes these people migrated to Greece proper. Danaus' mythical cousin, Cadmus, along with Cadmus' brother Phoenix, represent another migration from Egypt to Phoenicia. Cadmus moves again, this time to Greece where he slays the dragon of Ares and founds Thebes, he and his wife Harmonia then turn into dragons themselves, representing the rebirth of the dragon-line in Greece via Phoenicia. Remember that Cadmus plants the dragon's teeth in the ground, which grow into the Spartans, and note also that another city called Thebes was the capital of Egypt in the 11th and 15th dynasties. Thebes of Greece was so named by people from Egypt as assuredly as the people who settled New Amsterdam (later New York) were Dutch.

There was one more migration out of Egypt, by a peoples also rooted in ancient Mesopotamia (Sumer), who settled in the Levant south of Phoenicia ... the Israelites. Even the bible confirms the general shape of this tree I am describing, with it's naming of the sons of Noah and their descendents. I won't speculate on whether the Hyksos kings of Egypt were proto-Israelites, but I will go along with the idea that the Habiru of Egypt were Hebrews, and that the Hyksos might have been connected to them. The term Hebrew however, does not mean someone is Jewish, or even descended from Abraham (as all Arabs believe themselves to be, by Hagar, Abraham's wife's handmaiden). If one places stock in the accounts of the bible (which, not unlike the Greek myths, were about real events I believe, written to great extent in code, partly to conceal certain realities and partly as protection in a politically charged world ... but nonetheless providing a useful tool), Hebrew derives from Eber, and he and his descendents are correctly referred to by that name. Eber was a biblical great-great-(etc.) grandfather of Abraham many generations up the tree, who must have had many descendents. In other words, there were lots of Hebrews out there who had nothing to do with Abraham, nor the Israelites for that matter (strictly speaking). Funny how meanings get mistakenly linked to certain words, funny how things get all mixed up.

I find it interesting that speaking out against Zionism will get you branded an "anti-semite". Semitic means one is descended from Shem, son of Noah, as the Arabs and by extention Palestinians are alleged to be. Alternately, it is believed that the vast majority of European Jews are descended from the kingdom of Khazaria. (Excuse me for not speaking in absolutes.) - One assumes that the Khazars (previously Scythia) were "Gogi" peoples, i.e. (as per the biblical way of looking at it) descended from Shem's brother Japheth. (Maybe anti-Zionist talkers should be branded anti-Japhites? Nawh, that wouldn't work, practically ALL of the Anglo-American-European population is mostly Japhetic. I jest, but a closer examination of where we all really came from would do the world a lot of good IMO.)

This "Khazar" business, kept relatively quiet until the present age of the internet, is why some people go on and on about how the Jews of Europe (excepting Sephardic Jews from Spain) have no justifiable claim to the land of Israel ... because they aren't descended from any of those people.

But there's a catch.

Jo56 posted an article recently in another thread about the Khazars. I felt it was a good article (the writer might have a bit of an agenda, but seems to know his history IMO and I found it refreshing). But there's a key point about the Khazars that everyone seems to leave out, which I want to add for the record. The "lost tribes" were probably not lost at all, many of them probably wound up in Khazaria ... first carted off by the Assyrians into northern Mesopotamia, and then driven north by the constant fighting in the area as Assyrians, Medians, Babylonians, Persians and finally Parthians vied for dominance. There's no where else to go but through the Caucasus into Scythia (later Khazaria) - we're talking about maybe millions of exiled Israelites here, and this might help explain why the kingdom of Khazaria converted "en-masse" to Judaeism (8th-9th centuries). A few of the oldest Jewish communities in the world are located in the Caucasus. Furthermore, I can only think of two possible reasons why the rivers flowing into the Black Sea might all have been renamed with Din-Dan-Don names. Either the Gogi peoples in the area imported the term from Sumer (I showed that "Dan" in Sumerian was equivalent to Bel/Beru/Baal in Akkadian & Phoenician early in the thread), or, the Tribe of Dan, who apparently had no compunction about naming things after themselves (city of Dan) had something to do with it. The Danaus of Greece couldn't have named those rivers, they never went anywhere near there (to my knowlege).

...Of course what has been and is still being done to the Palestinians is an unadulterated crime against humanity, and I think the descendents of the Israelites have about as much right to take over Palestine as the Spanish have to go and invade western Georgia (which was the kingdom of Iberia in biblical times). But those that assume that because Ashkenazi Jews descend from Khazars they are defacto unconnected to Israel are missing part of the story. Food for thought.

Getting back to the two branches, I made a map. This is not meant to be definitive, only as a guide to help follow this. The Phoenicia -> Greece migration was by sea, the Egypt -> Israel migration (the Exodus) ostensibly by land.

(IMG:http://img293.imageshack.us/img293/9476/picture17xt1.png)

Note where Chaldea is. Chaldea was the birthplace of Kabbalah mysticism, which we find popping up along both Gogi and Egyptian branches. (Along the Egyptian branch you find major centers of Kabbalah teaching in Alexandria and Carthage, along the Gogi branch you find the cult of Cybelle (Kybele), which John has connected to Kabbalah and which spread from Colchis and Phrygia to Greece proper ... the island of Samothrace was also a stomping-ground of this cult.)

Some mixing of peoples of the two major branches should be pointed out. The alleged migration north by the "lost" tribes of Israel into Scythia/Khazaria discussed above would constitute one such merging of the branches. The Milesian migration to Spain and then Scotland would constitute another, as the royal Scythian Mil married Scota. Whether a historical or mythical figure, Scota was an Egyptian princess, and since we know additionally that there was a city in Israel called Scythopolis I think I can safely say the Milesians represented a merging of the Gogi and Egyptian lines. (Don't think too much about the details, or your head might explode, as mine seems about to.)

There is another place where the two branches came into close proximity, Armenia. At it's height, the Armenian kingdom stretched from the southern Caucasus all the way down to the edge of Phoenicia. Do you see a similarity between these terms, Hermes, Armenia, Mt. Hermon (in Phoenicia), Harmonia? Ladon-Gog author John believes there is a Hermes/Armenia connection, and I find it interesting that the name of the wife of Cadmus, the mythical founder of Phoenicia and Greece, was Harmonia, who's name came to represent peaceful co-existence, i.e. Harmony.

I think I know in a general way what happened to the Gogi branch, it stayed in the area of the Black Sea for many centuries, weaving in and around Greece for a bit, branched northward into Russia, sailed ships for Spain and Scotland, populated Northern Europe and Scandinavia, and finally overwhelmed the Roman Empire. I believe the Tuatha de Danaan who invaded Ireland 3 to 4 thousand years ago must have been of the Egyptian branch due to the 'Dan' element in their name and their alleged Aegean (near-Greece) roots. I couldn't tell you what became of the Egyptian line after the decline of the Greek empire (I have my suspicions but nothing solid), but I am beginning to think that the Trojan War was essentially a war between the Gogi and Egyptian branches of the dragon blood-line. Outlandish as it might seem at first, this idea has helped me keep things straight in my head, and it makes perfect sense to me at the moment. (I may change my mind of course.)

The next place we find a merging of the branches, or I should say, an alleged merging of the branches, is with the Merovingian kings. Here comes the blasphemous part.

When I say blasphemous, I'm not talking about the idea that Jesus and Mary Magdalene were married, as is the premise of Holy Blood Holy Grail. But that's part of it. The movie Zeitgeist promotes the view that the historical figure of Jesus never existed, but as the religion-related part of that movie plays sort of fast and loose with its facts (Horus-Christ story correllations mostly made-up or exaggerated), I propose entertaining that there was a Jesus. I'm not religious mind you, nor am I addressing nor discounting Christ as embraced in the Christian religion. I'm referring simply to a king of Israel of the Davidic line.

I don't know if you could call the piece below an article or just a post, but it's quite amazing. The "water into wine" miracle may simply have been Jesus breaking the rules and serving wine to commoners at his betrothal feast (wine at these ceremonies was reserved for priests and celibate Jews).

http://www.greenspun.com/bboard/q-and-a-fe...l?msg_id=0014xY

...is the marriage itself detailed in the Gospels? Actually, it is. Many have suggested that the wedding at Cana was the marriage of Jesus and Mary Magdalene - but this was not the wedding ceremony as such, being simply the pre-marital betrothal feast. The marriage is defined by the quite separate anointings of Jesus by Mary at Bethany. Chronologically, these anointings (as given in the Gospels) were two- and-a-half years apart.

Readers of the 1st century would have been fully conversant with the two-part ritual of the sacred marriage of a dynastic heir. Jesus, as we know, was a Messiah, which means quite simply an 'Anointed One'. In fact, all anointed senior priests and Davidic kings were Messiahs; Jesus was not unique in this regard. Although not an ordained priest, he gained his right to Messiah status by way of descent from King David and the kingly line, but he did not achieve that status until he was ritually anointed by Mary Magdalene in her capacity as a bridal high priestess.

The word 'Messiah' comes from the Hebrew verb mashiach: 'to anoint', which derives from the Egyptian messeh: 'the holy crocodile'. It was with the fat of the messeh that the Pharaoh's sister-brides anointed their husbands on marriage, and the Egyptian custom sprang from kingly practice in old Mesopotamia. In the Old Testament's Song of Solomon we learn of the bridal annointing of the king. It is detailed that the oil used in Judah was the fragrant ointment of spikenard (an expensive root oil from the Himalayas)...

... the anointing of Jesus by Mary Magdalene was indeed performed ... with the bridal ointment of spikenard. ... This oil was the express prerogative of a Messianic bride who had to be a 'Mary' - a sister of a sacred order...Mary wiped Jesus's feet with her hair and ... All of these things signify the marital anointing of a dynastic heir.

...Messianic marriages were always conducted in two stages. ...the second (the later anointing in Matthew, Mark and John) ... part of the marriage ceremony was never conducted until the wife was three months pregnant.

...First weddings were always held in the month of Atonement (modern September) and betrothal feasts were held three months before that. In this particular instance, we find that the first marital anointing of Jesus by Mary Magdalene was at the Atonement of AD 30, three months after the Cana ceremony which appears to have been their own betrothal feast.

The full article details carefully how various events in the bible and their timing correllate with the strict marraige protocol of a messianic king and his betrothed... and why one can conclude that Mary and Jesus were not only married, but that she was pregnant at the time of the Crucifiction.

Believe what you like, the important thing is that the Merovingians were keen to advertise a blood connection to the Davidic line of kings through Mary Magdalene, and that the Cathars and Templars after them propagated this legend. The Templars in fact built Gothic Churches of unrivaled size and beauty (Notre Dame - "Our Lady" - being the most famous) all around France in honor of Mary Magdalene and even claimed to possess her bones.

(Continued below...)

[Sanders]

(...Continued from above)

There's no other way to say this than to just blurt it out. Jesus was a king of the Egyptian branch of the dragon blood-line. Nazar (root of Nazareth) may simply mean dragon (and Jesus wasn't from there, if such a place existed, from what I understand).

Michael Tsarion lists the following terms as meaning serpent or dragon in various dialects.

Mayan - Nachan
Irish - Nathair (Nathrach, Nadder, Naase)
German - Natter
Cornish - Nader
Gothic - Nadr
Latin - Natrix

Nowhere below is this allegation explicitly supported, but, well, read for yourself.

...The Greek for this name is Nazoraioi, confused both with Nazarenoi (inhabitants of Nazareth) and with the Jewish sect of Nazarites; for Matthew 2:23 says that Jesus came and dwelt in Nazareth, that the Jewish prophecy that he should be called a Nazoraios might be fulfilled...

It would appear that the Jews claimed Jesus as a Nazarite [from Hebrew nazar to set apart, consecrate; cf nazar] Like the Ebionites, the Nazarenes were followers of true esoteric teachings, and occupied themselves in adapting these to what they found around them; so that scholars cannot make up their minds whether to call them Jews, Christians, Judizing Christians, heretics, or what not.

...So secretly did they preserve their beliefs from the very beginning, that Epiphanius who wrote against the Heresies in the14th century confesses himself unable to say what they believed in (i. 122); he simply states that they never mention the name of Jesus, nor do they call themselves Christians.

http://www.theosophy-nw.org/theosnw/ctg/n-nh.htm

Also interesting, the Nazarenes recognised only John the Baptist, whom they called the "Great Nazar". Interesting because St. Andrew, the namesake of the Arpad Hungarian king Andrew and the emblem of Scotland, was originally a disciple of John who spoke out unreservedly against the injustices of the Roman-state. John the Baptist got so under King Herod's skin that (as the story goes), at the request of his stepdaughter Salome Herod had the Baptist's head delivered to him on a plate.

From the above link I found this intriguing as well,

...Pliny and Josephus speak of the Nazarites as settled on the banks of the Jordan 150 years B.C. (Ant.Jud. xiii. p. 9); and Munk says that the "Naziareate was an institution established before the laws of Musah" or Moses.

Equating of the terms "Musah" and Moses tells me that the name Moses itself derives from Messeh, from which we get the word "Messiah", which just meant king - one annointed by the oil of the holy Egyptian/Sumerian crocodile, "Messeh".

Although I'm not religious, I am beginning to see this figure of Jesus in a completely different light. As a king of the ancient blood-line who bucked the Roman state, who stood for the "moral and social codes of a fair-minded, tolerant ministry, with the people as its benefactors" in a world where such concepts were totally alien, he must have been a great threat to the status quo. Dare I say it, it might be correct to think of him as an activist-truther, a revolutionary the likes of Gandhi, but who's elite-status by birthright trumped even that of the Emperor in Rome. In this way I can wrap my mind around the Christ event, and see why the Holy Roman Church went to such lengths to white-wash his story and why it sent shock waves reverberating through the centuries.

I must emphasise that the dragon represents the divine right of kings, and it's aspects both life-giving and warlike have been appropriated throughout history, justifiably or not, by those attempting to seize power or those trying to hang on to it. The emerging pagan rulers of proto-France were quick to appropriate Jesus' royal (dragon-messeh-messianic) lineage to strengthen their claim to rule over the former Roman Empire in Gaul.

If the Merovingians did in fact have a drop of Jesus-blood in them, it sure didn't affect their demeanor much. Talk about a violent lot! In the 6th century Clotaire and his brother Childebert seized the lands of their deceased brother Clodomir after killing his children. Clotaire's grandson Clotaire II followed suit when he killed his nephew Sigebert II, Dagobert I had both Clotaire II's son Charibert II and grandson Chilperic murdered, and finally Dagobert II met his demise, ostensibly by a lance through the eye at the hands of his own godson.

However, like the messianic kings who the Merovingians claimed as a part of their ancestry, they transfered power strictly by "messianic descent" i.e. by blood, which was a threat to the Church which passed power on by Apostolic tradition, i.e., bishops and popes were appointed. When a string of unremarkable Merovingian kings began to lose their grip in Gaul, the church stepped in, gradually shifting power away from the kings and into the hands of church appointed Mayors, the most conspicuous being Charles "The Hammer" Martel, who marked the transition from the Merovingian to the Carolingian lines. The Merovingian line didn't completely die out (their descendents must have gone somewhere), and Charles Martel's son Pepin (the "short") married Bertrada "broadfoot" de Laon, who was a Merovingian. Her genealogy is disputed, but two predominant theories both point to her being a direct Merovingian decendant.

I view the Pepin-Bertrada union as an attempt by the newcomer Carolingians to strengthen their royal authority. It should be noted that the tradition of messianic descendency by blood continued under the Carolingians, but that kings from then on had to be approved and annointed by the Church.

(See how futile it is to try and identify "good-guys" and "bad-guys"?)

Pepin and Bertrada had four children, one of which would become the legendary Charlemagne, King of the Franks.

Hang with me, we are getting to the end finally.

Rabbi Makhir was an Exilar of Babylon who was claimed to descend from the Davidic line of messianic Kings of Jerusalem. He emmigrated to the Languedoc region along the southern coast of France in the late 8th century during the reign of Charlemagne, where he and his descendents were given extensive lands and title. This is somewhat controversial, but many believe that Makhir assumed the Frankish name of Theodoric and had at least two children, Guillaume de Gellone, and Bertha d'Autun. Some also dispute Makhir's claim to Davidic descent, but his importance is not in question. In the centuries following the arrival of Makhir, the Cathars, a religious sect of French nobility that followed Kabbalah mysticism (many of whom were Makhir's descendents) appeared in the Languedoc region and spread to Toulouse and Aquitaine, and through son Guillaume and daughter Bertha, Makhir's blood flowed into the land-owning families of Anjou, Toulouse, Lusignan and Aquitaine, into practically every noble family in southern Europe that would thereafter be of any importance. You could even say that the entire French (as opposed to the Viking/Norman) portion of the blood of the future Templars, crusading knights, and most of the families who would rule Europe and England can be traced back to Makhir. There is even some speculation that Redburga, the great-great-(etc.) grandmother of Margaret wife of Malcom III of Scotland (who's daughter married King Henry I of England and who's son was David I of Scotland), was a daughter of Rabbi Makhir, which would make the connections mind-boggling. (Even if this isn't true, she was still a Carolingian in some respect, connecting her to the whole pantheon of European nobility in other ways.)

Are you following all this? I re-did my genealogy chart to show more explicitly how Makhir's children connect to the Counts & Dukes of Toulouse, Lusignan, Anjou, Aquitaine & Brittany. (200k)

http://img245.imageshack.us/img245/7104/makhirbloodiw7.png

Glance over it, see how the lines of Makhir's children Guillaume and Bertha flow into (or sire) all of these houses, and how Makhir's line connects with the Carolingians both through his Carolingian wife and through his grandaughter Cunigundis. Re-read this post if you have to, read the Margaret posts if you haven't. I've been puttering around this for a year trying to figure this out, what I am about to disclose is is something I am certain the rulers of our society do not want you or I to know. The conclusion is undeniable.


Rabbi Makhir didn't just up and decide to move to France. He was sent for.

He was sent for by Charlemagne. (!!!) Charlemagne appealed to the Caliph of Baghdad for, and I quote from the 'Sefer ha-Qabbalah' written by the Spanish historian and scholar Abraham ibn Daud in 1161, "one of his Jews of the seed of royalty of the House of David. He hearkened and sent him one from there, a magnate and sage, Rabbi Makhir by name. And [Charles] settled him in Narbonne", end quote. (Narbonne is in Languedoc.)

(IMG:http://img365.imageshack.us/img365/4365/picture2tb6.png)

The 'Charles' refered to is Charlemagne, as other accounts confirm. It can't be Charles Martel, that Charles died in 741, too early. I have read one account that claims Pepin "the Short" (Charlemagne's father) was responsible for bringing Makhir to France, but it matters not. The Carolingians, who's connection to the Merovingians (one marraige, between Pepin and Bertada "broadfoot" - who's ancestry is disputed) and by extension the Davidic line of kings (if you believe the claims of the Merovingians about their descendency from Mary Magdalene) ... had dwindled to a mere thread. To boost the church-backed Carolingian kings' divine right to rule, Charlemagne (or Pepin) sent for fresh biblical blood, "seed of royalty of the House of David", not unlike a dog breeder sends to England for a Cavalier King Charles Spaniel to refresh the breed.

Now think about this in terms of our "Gogi" and "Egyptian" branches. The nobility of Gaul were almost exclusively of the Gogi branch, descended from mostly Goths and Franks. Makhir and his family provided a "booster-shot" of royal Egyptian dragon-blood, this was purposeful, as is evidenced by the account in the Sefer ha-Qabbalah, and by the lands and title showered on Makhir and his decendents, and by the Carolingian wife that Makhir took. And, the Franks made good use of Makhir's royal blood from the Holy Land, not only were all of the important royal houses of Europe in the centuries to follow traceable back to Makhir, when you factor in the blood of the Vikings and Viking-Sinclairs, this DNA pool produced the Templars, the crusader Kings of Jerusalem, and the royal families that built the modern world. No joke.


Oh and speaking of Melusine the mermaid, or, mer-men (like the mythical half sea-serpent father of Merovech, patriarch of the Merovingian kings), as well as symbology of the ruling-elite paraded in popular culture and, Madonna, ... for your entertainment. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[CocaineImportAge...]

...that Starbucks logo has been bugging me for a while!.... thanks for sorting that one out Sanders!

...when you have a minute... look in to this one!

(IMG:http://images.1aauto.com/models/Alfa_Romeo_Logo.jpg)

..."as long as humanity kept records of its existence, serpents were used as emblems of the intelligence of God. In ancient times and as widespread and diverse as Australia, China, Japan, Mexico, New Zealand, Babylonia, Sumeria, Egypt, India, and Central America, serpents were feared and worshiped as Gods for thousands of years. If there is a common origin to the mythology of the serpent it may have developed at the Great Pyramid of Giza. To this day, serpents or dragons signify divine heritage and royalty an many Asian countries, while in the West the serpent represents wisdom and knowledge... Among nearly all ancient peoples the serpent was accepted as the ultimate symbol of wisdom or salvation"

Tony Bushby (the secrets of the bible )


...how old are the Pyramids!?... Tsarion says The Sphinx was built to commemorate the last Precession of the Equinox... Leo Transcending into Virgo... hence the head of a Virgin and the body of a lion.. and points to the appropriate ascendancy on the horizon!?.... thats 26,000 years ago!

I can't speak to Atlantis, all I know about it is the Greeks spoke of it...

...as i have said before... i find it hard to get my head around this stuff, but i find it truly fascinating, but i think as long as you keep delving back Sanders... you`ll end up at Atlantis!?

... (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/dunno.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

[Sanders]

...as long as you keep delving back Sanders... you`ll end up at Atlantis!?

Dunnoh, I'm headed in the wrong direction. Maybe after I arrive at the White House I'll double back?



That Alfa Romeo insignia freaks me out.


(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/blink.gif)


BTW, there are step pyramids (Ziggurats) all over Iraq, Iran, China and I would expect places in between (and in the Americas). Dunnoh how old they all are or how their age compares to the ones @ Giza. I'll bet the Mesopotamia ones pre-date the Egyptian ones - just because the Egyptian ones are cooler.

[Sanders]

I have heard it said that if you trace back 25 generations or so nearly everyone is connected (I think the claim is made in the book 'The Red Queen'). That sounds like an exaggeration to me, but even if accurate the argument falls apart when some families refuse to marry others. We know that medieval royalty didn't marry randomly, but purposefully to strengthen alliances and preserve bloodlines, and if you pour over genealogy charts looking for connections to Rabbi Makhir's family, only certain lines of inquiry bear fruit. There may be marraiges that connect other families to Makhir and his Carolingian wife, but they were't dutily recorded. Luckily, we aren't as concerned with who is really related to who, as who was advertised to have been related to who. The whole idea of bringing Davidian blood to France in the 8th century was to strengthen Carolingian (and other Gaul nobility) claims to divine right to rule.

Several posts up I introduced the blue-and-white checks and bars found on many relevant coats of arms, which Ladon-Gog author John traces ultimately back to Melissena (immortalised in legend as half sea-serpent Melusine) and her grandfather Michael I Rangabe the Byzantine Emeror. There is another whole class of these that feature blue and white diamonds, which can be found on crests of certain families and locals connected to the region of Bavaria.

(IMG:http://img529.imageshack.us/img529/4306/coatwittelsbach.png)
Coat of Arms of Wittelsbach
(courtesy John, Ladon-Gog author)

(Wikipedia:)

The Wittelsbach family is a European royal family and a German dynasty from Bavaria. Their major principal roles were as Dukes, Electors and Kings of Bavaria (1180-1918), Counts Palatine of the Rhine (1214-1803), Counts of Holland, Hainaut and Zeeland (1345-1432), Elector-Archbishops of Cologne (1583-1761), Kings of Sweden (1654-1720) and Kings of Greece (1832-1862). The family also provided two Holy Roman Emperors.

Flag of Bavaria


The name Bavaria may be connected at the hip to the names Bower and Bauer, the former of which uses bows and arrows on it's crest. If this (surmised) connection really panned out, it would be quite significant. Mayer Amschel Rothschild changed the family name, to Rothschild from Bauer. Interesting that the 5 banker sons of Mayer Rothschild are remembered to this day as the "5 arrows".

Compare the bundles of arrows on the Bower family crest to the bundle of arrows used on the corporate logo of the Rothschilds ...

http://www.houseofnames.com/fc.asp?sId=&s=bower
http://www.rothschild.com/

(IMG:http://img297.imageshack.us/img297/4352/bauerwt0.jpg)

There is a story floating around that the 5 Rothschild sons who dominated the banking industry from the capitals of Europe and England beginning in the early 19th century were told by their mother that while one arrow can easily be snapped in two, five arrows bundled together can never be broken. This probably isn't true, but significant. The tale obviously derives from the story of Alan Goa, a mythical figure from the Secret History of the Mongols and the mother of 5 sons who apparently represented the various Mongol tribes. In the legend she tells the exact same allegory to her sons.

The Huns (who gave us Attila and the royal Hungarian Arpad clan of Andrew and George) didn't leave written records so their connection to the Mongols who followed them in Asia can only be speculated on, but they both occupied some of the same territory. Note that Genghis Kahn who built the largest empire in the history of the world was given the title "Kagan" (a title meaning king used earlier by the Khazars) posthumously by his son. I'm not proposing that the Arpads of Hungary or Varangian Rus of Kiev were allies of Genghis Khan and his Mongol hords, they weren't, Genghis and his Mongols devastated Hungary and the Ukraine, allegedly killing half the population in the Hungarian plain. I'm just curious where this bundle-of-arrows idea came from.

There's another possible connection that the bow and arrow may impart which shouldn't be dismissed, the Boar of Artemis. Given the age of the myth of the Calydonian Boar hunt and it's significance, the word Boar itself may derive from Bow/Bower or vice-versa. I think Ladon-Gog John suggests this somewhere in his book as well.

The connection between the Scottish Bowers and the German Bauers is confirmed by this drawing of an early Rothschild crest -

(IMG:http://img168.imageshack.us/img168/3226/picture11ar7.png)
http://www.heraldica.org/topics/national/jewish.htm

But connecting the Bauers to the Bowers and connecting them to the founders of Bavaria are two different things. The ancestry of the Rothschild family has always eluded historians and "conspiracy-buffs" (and the Rothschilds certainly won't tell (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ) . But John thinks he may have cracked it. He hasn't posted his findings yet, but has promised to do so soon.

You can read some of what he's come up with here (there's a lot of other information to wade through):
http://www.tribwatch.com/SingleFile.htm


I'm looking forward to digging more in to the medieval history of the lands around Bavaria, and was particularly curious if the country of Moravia (adjacent to Bohemia) couldn't have been named after the Merovingians - the timing about coincides with the Merovingians giving way to the Carolingians. Sure enough there is a connection, and John has the goods...

Moray of Scotland is also called "Moravia," and European Moravia is thought to have been formed by a remnant of Avars when the Avar empire was brought down in 795 AD...

...see how similar "Moravia" is to "Merovee," the latter term being the quasi-mythical progenitor (i.e. eponym) of the Merovingians. And so read this:

"In 796, in the Annales Alamanici, one can find an excerpt saying...'Pepin went to the region of the Vandals, which Vandals did come out to oppose him'. In Annales Sangallenses, the same raid (however, put in 795) is summarised in one short message...'The Vandals were destroyed'"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vandals

The importance of these statements is in their referring to the end of the Avar empire, showing that European Avars (as distinguished from Russian Avars) were Vandal-integrated or Vandal allies. One can speculate that the Merovingian empire, in the throws of falling as it was to Pepin's powers, had joined the Avars and Vandals against Pepin but in losing formed Moravia i.e. as the remnants of the Merovingian empire, by which I mean to say that Merovingian rulers retreated to Moravia. It's important, if this be true, that the Avars are also viewed (as through some historical fog) to be the founders of Moravia. One must then entertain, not only a Merovingian-Avar equation, but a Merovingian tie to Moray of Scotland (and possibly the Ross clan that was partnered with Moray). In this way, the Vere clan may just be named after the Avars...

http://www.tribwatch.com/poles.htm

Wingmaster made an interesting post yesterday about gerontology, genetics, the Methuselah Foundation and a man named Aubrey de Grey, who previously worked on AI at Sinclair Research LTD, and the Roslin Institute and Dolly the cloned Sheep.
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10750195

Reading it I immediately remembered that the lamb was a symbol of John the Baptist, for I had just added the two posts above about Rabbi Makhir and the Davidic line (in which I mentioin John the Baptist, the "Great Nazar). Well, I poked around a bit, just long enough to find the lamb carrying a Templar flag (!!!), in two interesting places nonetheless. One was a crest used by the Moravian Church.
http://www.unitasfratrum.org/pages/witness.html

(IMG:http://img213.imageshack.us/img213/2582/lambflagvw3.gif)


The other was the Coat of Arms of Puerto Rico. And after getting back up off the floor and sitting in my chair again (Puerto Rico, if you didn't know, is where the Internal Revenue Service operates out of), I scrolled down that page to the next image and fell off my chair again -

There was the bundle of arrows !!!

(IMG:http://img83.imageshack.us/img83/7204/puertoricoarmskc7.jpg)
Coat of Arms of Puerto Rico

............................

Getting back to the blue and white diamonds I mentioned earlier, they are also found (unsurprisingly) on the Bavarian coat of arms, along with something called the "Franconian Rake" -

(IMG:http://img139.imageshack.us/img139/1628/coatbavarianf7.png)
(above find courtesy of Ladon-Gog author John)


The "Franconian rake", a symbol of Bavaria -

(IMG:http://img528.imageshack.us/img528/5567/raketi2.jpg)

Hmmm, I always wondered about this logo -

(IMG:http://img258.imageshack.us/img258/8583/marlbororedat9.gif)


I would never believe or imply a direct connection between the elongated lower-case "L" and "B" on the Marlborough box and the twin towers, as I've heard suggested. But certain symbols are very ubiquitous, and it wouldn't surprise me if the L & B of the Marlborough logo and the Rockefeller-built twin towers both represent something else, maybe the pillars of Hercules? Or the story of Samson (the biblical Samson and the Greek Hercules share many parallels and there was a Merovingian named Samson) pulling down the pillars of the temple of Dagon? (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

(IMG:http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/2033/image006at7.gif)


Naahhhww.

You can read more about the Rothschilds, the Franconian rake, and it's use on the flags of Bahrain and Qatar about half way down this chapter -
http://www.tribwatch.com/semiramis.htm


http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&...mages&gbv=2
http://images.google.com/images?gbv=2&...G=Search+Images


In case you weren't sure where Bahrain and Qatar are, they're just down the road from Dubai

(IMG:http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/943/qatarmapis1.gif)

[CocaineImportAge...]

...where as our Tudor Dynasty came from the Tribe of Dan... the Rothschild's originate from the Tribe of Menasheh...

...Wiki` Page

... the the adopted Rothschild name came from the "Red Shield" above the door of the meeting house in Frankfurt... on the shield was this image...

(IMG:http://www.themasonictrowel.com/Articles/Symbolism/general_files/great_seal_us/us_seal_front.gif)

....which als ended up on the Dollar bill...

...link here

[CocaineImportAge...]

...it might be worth looking into this bunch too Sanders!?

....The Habsburg`s


(IMG:http://www.planet-vienna.com/habsburger/wappen.jpg)

[Sanders]

I didn't find anything in that link about the Tudors being from the Tribe of Dan or the Rothschilds being from the Manasseh, I hadn't ever heard that ... not saying there's any less (or more) truth to those statements than the de Vere claim that they descend from the Mittani, I'm just curious where that came from. (?)

I must admit that I was seduced at first by the idea that the Tribe of Dan beat a path to Denmark and Britain, as is claimed by the British-Israeli movement and in the internet movie "Ring of Power" ... and there might be something to it. But there are other explanations for all the "Dan" terms along the way. Early in this thread I pointed out that "Dan" in Sumerian was equivilent to the Akkadian word "Bel" (which evokes the Phoenician "Baal" as well). Never have I found it stated explicitly that Dan meant "god" or "ruler" or anything like that in Sumerian, but the fact that someone who understands that language equated the term to 'Bel' comes pretty close in my mind. (Brought up early in this thread.)

The Danaus of Greece came from Egypt in all likelyhood (both historical accounts and Greek myth tells us this) ... and so did the Tribe of Dan so they are more than likely related, and I noted as well early in this thread the similarity in their parentage - Dan's biblical mother was 'Bilah', Danaus' father according to the accounts of Petavius was 'Belus'. In historical accounts Danaus ruled Libya, in Greek legend Belus' mother was named Libya. Is all this coincidence? I seriously doubt it, that'd be one heck of a coincidence. What does it all mean? That's harder to answer. I'd just say that the Danaus of Greece and the Tribe of Dan were branches on a larger branch on the same tree, which split in Egypt. (I think I explained this pretty well a few posts back.)

I'm thinking that the multitude of Dan terms in the British Isles, or many of them at least, are more sensibly attributed to the Tuatha de Danaan. Despite the seductive similarity between 'Tuatha de Danaan' and 'Tribe of Dan', the Tuatha are more likely related instead to the Danaus who migrated from Egypt to Greece, as evidenced by accounts that the Tuatha de Danaan hailed from the Aegean Sea. This is a different branch than the Tribe of Dan - (but you could think of them as cousins I think.) Some information might be gleened by checking into when exactly certain places using "Dan" variants aquired their names, which I haven't done.

Conversely, is it possible that the Tribe of Dan migrated up through the Caucasus into Scythia, and made their presence felt elswhere via that route? Yes, very possible, I stated earlier in talking about Khazaria that exiled Israelites finding their way into Scythia is a likelyhood that many people miss. Did remnants of the Dan tribe comprise part of the Milesian or Pict invasions into Scotland, or the migrations of the proto-Vikings from the same Black Sea region into Scandinavia, leaving their mark on the names of towns and rivers in those locations? It's possible. I think however that it's more likely that the Tribe of Dan is not the source of "Dan" terms like Edinburg, Danmoni or Denmark, but a single branch of peoples on a much larger tree, and that the term "Dan" originates closer to it's root. (Nothing is impossible though, and the Tribe of Dan were a sea-worthy tribe.)

I've posted some erroneous information as I followed along this path of inquiry, I'll be the first to admit it. I'll prove myself wrong again too, (and again and again probably). In my own defense, it's all very confusing. Hopefully this will set the record straight though as per my own thoughts on the biblical Tribe of Dan.

As for the Rothschild shield, I have read as well that the Seal of Solomon (six pointed star) was used on the shield hung outside of the Bauer (later Rothschild) shop. I have never been able to find any confirmation of that. Regardless, this (if true) is another case of two examples of something popping up on different branches of the same tree. The star wasn't a Jewish symbol back then, but it was used in Masonry. So what's the connection between American masons and the German Bauers (Rothschilds) ? Well, that's the subject of this thread - the dragon blood-line ... it courses all over the place. By the way, I'm more interested in the bundle of arrows in the eagle's talons than the stars above it's head - though you'd be hard pressed to connect that appearance of a bundle of arrows to the Bowers & Bauers. More than likely, the Masons got it from the same place the Bauers did - yet another case of the same symbol popping up on different branches of the same tree. And, even if the source of the usage is the same, there's nothing sinister about it ... the arrows just represent strength in unity.

It's all very interesting.


I'll keep my eye out for Hapsburg connections. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

EDIT 2009: The origins of that double headed eagle are in Armenia.

[CocaineImportAge...]

I didn't find anything in that link about the Tudors being from the Tribe of Dan or the Rothschilds being from the Manasseh

...sorry Sanders!... i read that elsewhere!... the link was purely to the Wiki` page of the Manasseh!

They Rothschilds - are not of royal blood, but have served the Venetian and Hanoverian royals from whom their power derives. Above his door Amschel Mayer Rothschild displayed the Sun Eagle of Aton, with five arrows in its claws, a near identical symbol to that now found on the US one-dollar bill.

...taken from here... some interesting reading here!... whether its all true or not!?... (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/dunno.gif)

I'll keep my eye out for Hapsburg connections

....i stuck that in for the symbolism of The Cross of Lorraine!... i had`nt noticed you had mentioned that yet!?... i always thought it was interesting as to why The French Resistance adopted it!?

...French Resistance Wiki` page

[Sanders]

Thanks for clearing that up, CIA. Got it.

You gotta take Michael Tsarion with a grain of salt though. Tsarion believes that Akhenaton was Moses, that civilization as we know it began in Ireland, and that the Cult of Aton is the source of the world's woes. These are all theories. I will admit, interesting theories, and I'm glad there are people like Tsarion out there offering alternate points of view. But Tsarion never says "I believe this" or, "this is a possible explanation for that" ... you never know where the demonstrable facts end and his theories begin, drives me nuts. You read Tsarion, and the lion is a cult of Aton symbol, the eagle is a cult of Aton symbol, the ram is a cult of Aton symbol, the Seal of Solomon is a cult of Aton symbol. By what reasoning?

I'll tell you a couple of reasons I am leery. Early in the thread I linked to a paper that explains why the original constellations had to have been fixed by a peoples who lived at a latitude consistent with Sumer, a conclusion which is arrived at independently by several different scientific methods. A peoples who lived in Ireland could not have named the original constellations. Secondly, most things written about Akhenaten have that Pharaoh living and dying in Egypt. Tsarion says the following about the name Moses - "Moses - (drawer of the waters) - a name that implies the moon, is a fictive front for the concealed Solar personality - in other words - Akhenaton". Not only is this pure speculation, it can be shown to be baseless. I just posted a quote that equates Moses with "Museh" (remember, ancient Hebrew used no vowels). Also, there were Egyptian Pharaohs who's names ended in "mose" - like Dudimose, Ahmose & Thutmose. What's the reason for the similar terms? It's obious - "Messeh", the holy crocodile who's fat was used to annoint kings. (Duh.) Don't wanna bad-mouth Tsarion, he digs up a lot of good stuff, but he's trying to sell a very particular point of view, seldom offers sources, and states things as if they are factual when they are in fact often opinions. To be fair, Tsarion is not the only one out there saying Akhenaten was Moses. Here's a good synopsis of the history of this theory. http://www.domainofman.com/forum/index.cgi...rames;read=1037

The Cross of Lorraine looks like it's connected to Pannonia and Moravia (Pannonia is named after Pan, Moravia probably after the Merovingians) - so it's probably very relavant to all of this. The Templars seem to have carried it as well. Thanx for the tip (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/thumbsup.gif)

[Sanders]

Speaking of theories, I might just be on to something with my idea about the two branches. It just hit me today ... and all I had to do was go back and look at the quote from CIA at the top of that post:

"...the Dragon represents ... the Twins of all mythologies, the two contending serpents of the Caduceus ... which devour each other in endless wars from the primordial ages down to the present day"

(IMG:http://img376.imageshack.us/img376/1733/caduceusop3.jpg)


Duh!!! How did I miss it!??? Do you get it? John associates Hermes with Armenia (and he has a half-a-dozen reasons for doing so, not just the similarity of the names). I proposed that Armenia was a buffer zone between the two branches - the "Gogi" branch which lingered in the region around the Black Sea, and the "Egyptian" branch which migrated from Egypt to Phoenica and Greece. (See map of Aug 28th post. Egypt -> Phoenicia migration is represented by Cadmus and Phoenix, Phoenicia -> Greece migration again by Cadmus, and direct from Egypt to Greece by Danaus.) Hermes is a descendent of Cadmus. We get our word "harmony" from Cadmus' wife, who's name is HARMONIA (which is another "Hermes" term), - the reason for which is, she represents (HARMONIOUS?) co-existence between the two branches - in the region of ARMENIA. This is additionally described by the TWO SERPENTS which twist around the STAFF OF CADUCEUS (Caduceus is derived from Cadmus), which was CARRIED BY HERMES! (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/doh1.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/cheers.gif)

Excuse my exhuberance. Isn't it nice when everything fits?


(BTW, earlier in the thread the coat of arms of Tbilisi is shown, which uses the Staff of Caduceus. Now I know why.)