The Dragon Blood-line Options

[elreb]

Karnak / Carnac - I never connected those dots.
(Carnac in Brittany is the site of a huge and ancient (7 thousand years old?) serpent monument.) Thanx.

History is deep deep deep. To understand where we are or where we are going, we first should want to understand where we came from.

"BEL AND THE DRAGON"

Carnac in Brittney can also be spelled Carnhac with “Hac” having the meaning of Serpent or Dragon. Thus “Hill of the Serpent”. In popular language, a “Hag” is a devilish, cunning witch.

About 8 miles northwest of Carnac is the village of “Belz” that was said to house the sanctuary and alter of “Bel”. [Belus] There is also a “Tumulus” called Crubelz or better Crug-belz which is obviously from the words Crug and Belz. The word Cruger means a hill. [Hill of Bel] Crug may have been more specific, a "burial mound".

Two sets of axes with bronze bushings were discovered there.

Hebrew “Ob” is said to equal serpent thus Obel = serpent god.

[Tamborine man]

"BEL AND THE DRAGON"



Hebrew "Ob" is said to equal serpent thus Obel = serpent god.

....and who later on became Agnes Obel, danish singer/songwriter, perhaps!: (IMG:style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)






Cheers

[elreb]

Why? Many theories have been forwarded - the conquering peoples from antiquity who kicked @ss around the world had red hair? It traces back to the red crown of Egypt? - inject your own theory (?).

Sir John Gardner Wilkinson (5 October 1797 – 29 October 1875) English traveller, writer and pioneer Egyptologist of the 19th century…is often referred to as "the Father of British Egyptology".

In his comments on George Rawlinson’s translation of “History of Herodotus” he states that Sethos the priest of Ptah [Vulcan] was king Seti I.

Sethos the priest had fought against Sennacherib king of Assyria [705-681 BC] who also had laid siege to Jerusalem in 701 BC.

Interestingly, Thebes “The Great City of Zeus” was known as “Waset” with the “Was” meaning scepter plus “Set” and a total meaning Scepter of Set.

As concerns to the Deshret [Red Crown] the Red Land; Seth was its lord. I personally believe that the “Red Sea” relates to the sea next to the Red land.

We often see Neith wearing the Red Crown and holding the Scepter of Set, as we also see Nephthys, Isis, Anubis and Set holding the Scepter of Set.

The Red Deshret crown may very well have originated in Upper Egypt, although it eventually became associated as the symbol of Lower Egypt. A sherd from a large vessel found near the town of Nubt [Naqada] , the city of Set, has a representation in relief of the red crown, and on both the Narmer palette (one side) and mace-head the king’s figure is shown wearing the red crown.

From the above information, I still believe that Jerusalem = Waset = Thebes and that Seti I ruled in 700 BC.

[Sanders]

Many theories have been forwarded, I'm sure many have spent endless hours pondering this puzzle - what the "Rose Line" (i.e. Rus, Roos, Ros - line) refers to?

I am somewhat torn - but I lean toward the 'red-thread wrapped around the wrist of Zerah in the biblical account' rationale, because that is a DISTINCT LINE, separate from the lines that eminated from Judah's other son, Pharez. The Egyptian 'Red Crown' may be significant in this conversation (I'm sure it is, as is, I suspect, the 'War of the Roses', a white rose family and a red rose family fighting over the crown of England), but the groups that have historically been claimant to the "Ros Line" are Viking/Frank - those are the conquering peoples which descend from the Trojan kings, and Dardanus, the patriarch of those Trojan kings, is allegedly the son of Zerah, the twin of the red thread.

So, I'm pretty confident that all this business about the Rose / Rus / Roth / Ros Line refers, ultimately, to the elite who descend from Zerah and not Pharez (both sons of Judah).

Don't forget, two mountains, one in Crete and one in Anatolia near Troy, both central to Great Mother Goddess worship in those places, were named Mt. Ida.

Ida = Judah.

[Tamborine man]

Deleted!

This post has been edited by Tamborine man: Dec 16 2011, 11:25 AM

[elreb]

So, I'm pretty confident that all this business about the Rose / Rus / Roth / Ros Line refers, ultimately, to the elite who descend from Zerah and not Pharez (both sons of Judah).

We are still on the same page when you think about it.

Judah stayed loyal to the House of David out of which came the Messiah Cyrus [Perseus] the real Jesus.

Be it the twins Jacob [Israel] and Esau [Edom] or Zerah and Perez either one was fighting over birth right.

There was bitter conflict between Jacob and Esau as well as we hear of a “Zerah the Cushite” having invaded the Kingdom of Judah.

We all know that Cush was Upper Egypt which included Thebes/Waset.

With Jerusalem being in Upper Egypt, we have solved the “Red” land issue.

If you recall…Judah was called the “Southern Kingdom” and Upper Egypt was also called the “Southern Kingdom”.

This would also place the “kingdom of Edom” in Cush near the Second Cataract and the Fortress of Senusret.

The “Ret” in Senusret is equal to “Red”. In fact, the two obelisks he erected were made of Red granite.

[elreb]

Hello…Sanders

Re & Ra

Hip Hip Hooray or Hoorah, Hurrah, Hurray derives from Hera/HēRē sister of Zeus.

Zoroaster = Zara-thust-ra

Abram became Abraham, Sarai became Sarah.

Son of the Sun = Sa-Ra and very close to Hera

Winged disk in Egypt = Ra/Re,

Winged disk in Persia = “Zara-thustra” which related to Mazda who = wisdom.

It is known that the Achaemenids [Akhmin] were worshipers of Ahura Mazda and Mithra who was the all-seeing protector of Truth.

Akhenaten called himself Ankhem-maat "Living in Truth"

Sun of the Sun or Son of Ra related to Pharaoh, or Pharaō, [Pr-aa] [Per-Ra = house of Ra]

The earliest instance where pr-`3 is used specifically to address the ruler is in a letter to Amenhotep IV (Akhenaten), who reigned c. 600-530 BC.

Two cities relative to Re were Heliopolis and Anu.

[Sanders]

So, the Rose (Red, Rus, Ros) line DOES IN FACT pertain indirectly to the RED CROWN OF EGYPT?!??

[elreb]

So, the Rose (Red, Rus, Ros) line DOES IN FACT pertain indirectly to the RED CROWN OF EGYPT?!??

I think you can safely say that especially if you include Cy-Rus.

Cy-Rus I was brother to the Ramses line and appears to relate to Rusa II the king of Ararat which is about as Hebrew as you can get.

The fortress of Rusa was called Rusahinili

Rusa II 680 BC–639 BC
Cy-Rus I 652 to 600 BC.

I wonder if there is any relationship with Lusignan in Western France, the Lusignan kings of Cilicia/Armenia, the Red lion and the Rus?

(IMG:http://www.lampron.info/Hethumids%20coat%20of%20arms.png)

[Sanders]

Well, the House of Lusignan, which carried the blood of Makhir and are included in one version of the myth of Melusine, were "dragon-central" IMO in Frankish Gaul in their day - also, they were integrally related by blood to anyone of any importance in Medieval Europe.

I suspect the "Lus" in Lusignan is really "Rus". ('L's and 'R's are interchangeable in Japanese.)

[elreb]

I suspect the "Lus" in Lusignan is really "Rus". ('L's and 'R's are interchangeable in Japanese.)

Same thing in Hawaiian where La = Ra [Land of the Sun]

I also just noticed that the “Rus” are described as ‘river-people’ and settled nears rivers such as the Dnieper, Don, Dniester, Western Dvina, Ros and Rusna.

I think the real “Gordian Knot” is unraveling a somewhat simple past that “Modern Historians” have twisted into a ball of utter despair.

[Sanders]

Well, I'll reiterate - I think the 'Rus'/'Ros'/'Rose'-line is just the 'Red Line', that descended from Zerah, son of Judah, the (biblical) twin of Pharez (Pharez being the ancestor of the Tribe of Judah), who (I'm talking about the twin Zerah now) had, in the account, a red thread tied around his wrist at birth to mark the "first -born".

It's a pretty good bet that Zerah's son Darda was Dardanus of the Troad and ancestor of the Kings of Troy, the close correlation between the names of the two 'Mt. Ida's (centers of Great Mother worship in Crete & Anatolia respectively) and the name 'Judah' lends credence to the theory, and there was correspondence between Sparta and Judea in the annals which further seals the deal.

Now, maybe, the "red thread" was code for something else, something even deeper, maybe the Red Crown of Egypt. I suspect so, but that heritage would have been shared by both twins, so I really think that when they talk about the 'Rose Line', they (whoever they are) are really talking about the line from Abraham which extends from Zerah.

That line, by the way, leads to the Trojan Kings, the Kings of the Franks, the Saxons, Vikings, Goths, etc.

The AVAR branch, which is also important, is a total mystery, but must tie into this web because their blood seems to have been highly valued.

[elreb]

You may want to take a broader view of this.

Haran was one of the cities built by Nimrod.

Abram & Sarai came from Haran before heading to Egypt.

The city became a bastion for the worship of the moon god “Sin” and the final home during the reign of Nabonidus and his mother [555-536 BC] before being vanquished by Cy-Rus the Great.

In Hebrew, the word “Shani” means “scarlet’ and should be distinguished from the Hebrew "adom" which means red. [Edom]

Shani could be Scarlet or Crimson and are used to describe fine materials and “Sin”.

Shani can indicate double dyed or two or both.

The Hebrew letter Shin = Sin

(IMG:http://www.windstarembroidery.com/cw2/Assets/product_upsell/3909_SH_75.gif) Shin [boat following Sun?]

(IMG:http://www.windstarembroidery.com/cw2/Assets/product_upsell/3909_SIN_75.gif) Sin [boat following moon?]

[Sanders]

How does that rebut my theory? - I don't think it does, I think it makes it stronger.

BTW, Sarai was probably the sister of a Pharoah (I don't know which one), who Abrahm met & married in Egypt - hense the great "wedding gift" he took out of Egypt when he left for Canaan ... not a wife he took INTO Egypt. She wasn't "barren" all those years and then miraculously bore Isaac, she hadn't met him yet!

The biblical accounts are like the far-fetched tales of a bad lier, trying to cover something up.

[Tamborine man]

Elreb and Sanders:

".......
In all the spheres (6) there are numerous institutions of learning, corresponding to the schools
and universities of the Earth. All scientific and literary works that exist, or have existed, on Earth
are available there, reproduced in the earthly language, except for the most primitive ones.
Each institution of learning has its own large libraries with appropriate reading and study halls.
All public buildings, churches, assembly halls, universities, observatories, museums, etc., display
great architectural beauty and are adorned with many works of sculpture. Many of these buildings
have been designed and built by human spirits during their time of learning and thus were not
created by God by the power of His Thought and Will, but were constructed from the materials of
the spheres, similar to those on Earth (stone, wood, etc.).
......."


I'll undoubtedly know exactly which library to find you two champs, when we meet again in the
great beyond, so it shall be very interesting indeed to find out which of you were the closest to
the truth of the matter!

The one of you who were the most right, provides for the 'nibbles' and the all around drinks ......

Cheers

[elreb]

How does that rebut my theory? - I don't think it does, I think it makes it stronger.

Sanders,

No one said anything about rebutting your theory and yes my intentions are to make it stronger by taking the broader view by beginning with Abram.

Genesis 12 gives us a clue by using the word “Phroe” and his connection to “Mitzrim”.

Phroe is an 18th dynasty term…

Also…Genesis 13-1 states = And Abram went up out of Egypt, he, and his wife, and all that he had, and Lot with him, into the south.

"Up out of Egypt" is going up the Nile which is actually heading south towards the land of Cush.

They settled in the basin of the ‘Irdon” [Urdon]. I don’t think they ever left Egypt proper.

This area reminds me of Krialon [Krokodilopolis] home of the sacred crocodile [Messeh] which is watered by the “Canal of Joseph” (Bahr Yusuf) which goes to Lake Moeris.

Abraham, Isaac, Jacob [Israel], Joseph, Judah should all be connected and I would give “Red” hair a lot of consideration.

Microscopic inspection of the roots of Ramesses II's hair proved that the king's hair was originally red, which suggests that he came from a family of redheads.

Less than a mile from the Canal of Joseph near el-Lahun is the pyramid of Senusret and we already know that Ret = Red…

(IMG:http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a6/Moeris.gif)

[Sanders]

Great scholarship, you amaze me.

Yes, I suspect the biblical account of the "scarlet thread" was stuck in there (sort of code) to reflect or pay homage to these other "things red".

But there's something significant that deserves some thought. The so-called "Rose Line" is not the line of the (elite) Jewish inheritors of this blood through the royal Huns and Khazars. It is the blood of the royal Vikings, Saxons and Franks, those that descend from the Trojan Kings - who, as I have uttered, descend (apocryphally) from Zerah.

[elreb]

Ok, I see where you are headed with this.

“Jordanes described how the Goths sacked "Troy and Ilium" after they had recovered from the war with Agamemnon."

"Thus, the Franks filled the lacunae of their legendary origins with Trojan and pseudo-Trojan names: in Fredegar's 7th-century chronicle of Frankish history, Priam appears as the first king of the Franks.”

This works “fine” with Troy IX...the Hellenistic Ilium that was founded by Romans during the reign of the emperor Augustus.

Please keep in mind that "Calvert's Thousand Year Gap" (1800-800 BC) never existed thus giving Troy II a date around 800 BC considering that Rome was founded around 753 BC.

[Sanders]

I have the accounts of the (largely apocryphical) genealogical trees of the Franks & Vikings leading back to the kings of Troad ... if you look at it in terms of time transpired vs. generations, it doesn't fly. There's too much time (as per the accepted time-line) for the number of generations. Elreb is probably right, the Trojan War, I believe, happened much later than we have been told.

[elreb]

Check this out…

(IMG:http://www.salimbeti.com/micenei/images/chariot29.jpg) This is an 18th dynasty Egypt “horse bit”, indicating that these folks rode on horseback.

(IMG:http://www.salimbeti.com/micenei/images/chariot26.jpg) This is a Greek “horse bit”

The Greeks didn’t make it to Egypt until 630 BC

Both Ramses II and Amasis II rode on horseback


NEW

Hyksos capital & Port = Avaris = El-Dab’a

The Minoan wall paintings at Tell El-Dab'a are of particular interest to Egyptologists and archaeologists.

They are of Minoan style, content, and technology.

The paintings depict scenes of maze-like patterns, bulls and bull-leapers, the flying gallop, griffins, and leopard and lion hunts…all images associated with the Minoan artistic culture.

The frescoes date to the Eighteenth dynasty of Egypt.

The House of Ramses [Pi-Ramesses] was less than 2 miles away.

Psammetichos [664 – 610 BC] rewarded his allies the Ionians and Carians with places to live in called “The Camps”, opposite each other on either side of the Nile. They were described by Herodotos as being of Minoan descent.

The Iliad records that at the time of the Trojan War, the city of Miletus belonged to the Carians, and was allied to the Trojan cause. [Making my 800 BC work]

Badabing Badaboom