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Georgia... Russia/us/israel 'proxy' War Has Begun, This could be prelude to large regional conflict, including Iran

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Devilsadvocate
post Aug 10 2008, 06:57 PM
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That defense-agreement seems to be mentioned here:

http://www.parliament.ge/index.php?lang_id...&sec_id=544

http://www.parliament.ge/files/544_7353_636443_2003-agr.doc

Treaty signed 21.03.2003:

"The Ratification On Agreement On Cooperation in Military Sphere between the Governments of Georgia and USA".
Regrettably, there's nothing about the wording of that agreement.
But if I'm not mistaken, there may be a similar agreement with Britain.
(See last on that list- dated 16.09.2004):

Titled:
The Ratification "On Reciprocal Understanding Memorandum On Military Trainings and Support by the Assumer Country between Georgia and the Great Britain and the Northern Ireland"
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Sanders
post Aug 10 2008, 07:04 PM
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2 late developments -

Reports: Russia sinks Georgian ship trying to attack Russian navy ships
AP
http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid...icle%2FShowFull

US begins flying Georgian troops home from Iraq
By KIM GAMEL – AP
http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5i3OehGI...6ewA4AD92FHP7O0


Both of these were just posted over at WhatReallyHappened, and I totally agree with Mike Rivero regarding the idea of the US military transporting Georgian troops home from Iraq. Does the US Defense Department have all of their screws loose!?? It's one thing to have 127 US military advisors operating in Georgia, but to overtly transport Georgian troops in US planes so they can fight the Russians borders on insanity. It's a good way to get the US directly involved. ...I'm flabergasted.
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Devilsadvocate
post Aug 10 2008, 07:13 PM
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Signing a binding international agreement regarding mutual defense with a madman is insane, Sanders.
I'm not flabbergasted anymore...
I just hope the US-military know what they are getting this world into, should they decide to accept this mission.
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Sanders
post Aug 10 2008, 07:41 PM
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QUOTE (Devilsadvocate @ Aug 14 2008, 06:13 PM) *
I just hope the US-military know what they are getting this world into, should they decide to accept this mission.

According to the article, they are doing it. doh1.gif

I'm worried that they (Cheney and the Joint Chiefs that are in his corner) DO know what they are getting into ... that's why I'm surprised. Should a US plane get shot down carrying Georgian troops, that thrusts the US in the middle of this, as opposed to participating through Georgia as a surrogate. Doesn't Georgia have their own planes they can ferry troops with? Why would the US agree to use their planes for this with a war under way? Are the Joint Chiefs so stupid they don't see the danger, or are they so reckless they don't care, or are they insane enough to welcome a head to head confrontation with Russia!?? Am I reading too much into this?


Either way, this looks alot like a hand-basket we're in and I think I just saw a sign that said hell up ahead.
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Sanders
post Aug 10 2008, 08:01 PM
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Devilsadvocate
post Aug 10 2008, 08:06 PM
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Oh, I fear you are right about Cheney and his cohorts.
What I meant is that I hope the military will think twice before accepting the total destruction of both the US and Russia as some kind of 'evil neccessity', and refuse to go beyond a certain point.

That agreement can be seen as binding; I get grey hair when I think about George Bush being the one who can decide if it's binding enough or not.
But the military brass can still always refuse to simply carry out orders, if they decide that the consequences are not in the interest of the American nation...

On another point:
Is there any alternative to youtube ?
Ever since that courtcase a while back, videos seem to dissappear rather quickly...
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P45
post Aug 10 2008, 09:36 PM
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Thanks Painter and others for the background to this.
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Devilsadvocate
post Aug 10 2008, 09:41 PM
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Sorry. I believe we don't do 'Aryan Nations' on this website.
Would someone please delete those links?
They offend my sense of good taste... blech.gif

Edit:
In case anyone is wondering:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edgar_Steele

(BTW: I'm German salute.gif )

This post has been edited by Devilsadvocate: Aug 10 2008, 09:57 PM
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Leslie Landry
post Aug 10 2008, 10:06 PM
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Putin: Georgia's actions are criminal, whereas Russia's actions are absolutely legitimate

Russian news reports say that Russia's Prime Minister Vladimir Putin has arrived in a region that neighbors South Ossetia, where the armed conflict is taking place.

They say Putin is visiting the city of Vladikavkaz, the provincial capital of the region of North Ossetia that neighbors South Ossetia.

Also read: War between Russia and Georgia orchestrated from USA

Putin said at a work meeting in Vladikavkaz that he could not imagine how it could be possible to make South Ossetia become a part of Georgia afterwards.

"Georgia's actions are criminal, whereas Russia's actions are absolutely legitimate," the Russian Prime Minister said.

Putin urged the Georgian administration to immediately end aggression in South Ossetia.

"The actions of the Georgian authorities in South Ossetia are obviously a crime. It is a crime against its own people, first and foremost," Putin stated.

"A deadly blow has been struck on the territorial integrity of Georgia itself, which implies huge damage to its state structure," Putin emphasized.

"The aggression has resulted in numerous victims including those among civilians and has virtually led to a humanitarian catastrophe," he said.

The Russian PM stressed out that Russia would always treat the Georgian nation with great respect, as a brotherly nation, despite the current tragic events.

"Time will pass and the people of Georgia will give their objective estimations to the actions of the incumbent administration," Putin said.

Putin believes that Georgia's aspiration to become a member of NATO is not based on Georgia's wish to become a part of the global international security system and contribute to the strengthening of international peace.

"It is based on an attempt of the Georgian administration to get other countries involved in its bloody affairs," he said.

Russia 's actions in South Ossetia are absolutely grounded and legitimate, Putin said.

"In accordance with international agreements, including the agreement of 1999, Russia does not only execute peacemaking functions, but is obliged, in case one party breaks the cease-fire agreement, to defend the other party, which is exactly what we are doing in case with South Ossetia," Putin stated.

Russia has been playing a positive and stabilizing role in the Caucasus for ages, Putin said.

"We perfectly realize what world we live in today. We will strive for fair and peaceful solutions of all conflicting situations, which we inherited from the past," the head of the Russian government said.

http://english.pravda.ru/hotspots/conflict...putin_georgia-0

This post has been edited by Leslie Landry: Aug 10 2008, 10:06 PM
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Devilsadvocate
post Aug 10 2008, 10:11 PM
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About Edgar Steele-
I found out about him when I looked up that book which is advertised on that site, written by the author of that article (...and which I'm not even going to credit by giving its title).
The article itself is designed so as to not arouse too much suspicion, I think; I haven't checked out the rest of the site, so I can't say anything about it.
Interesting that people like him seem to take an interest in 'conspiracy-theories'...

This post has been edited by Devilsadvocate: Aug 10 2008, 10:14 PM
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painter
post Aug 10 2008, 10:13 PM
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Leslie, will you please edit your post and eliminate the link to Mr. Steele? Thank you.
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Leslie Landry
post Aug 10 2008, 10:18 PM
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QUOTE (painter @ Aug 10 2008, 10:13 PM) *
Leslie, will you please edit your post and eliminate the link to Mr. Steele? Thank you.


I will but this is not why i posted it. I posted it not knowing where it was coming from and i thought that it was in refrence to this topic.
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Devilsadvocate
post Aug 10 2008, 10:41 PM
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QUOTE
Bush, in an interview with NBC, said, "I've expressed my grave concern about the disproportionate response of Russia and that we strongly condemn the bombing outside of South Ossetia."

On Sunday, Vice President Dick Cheney said that "Russian aggression must not go unanswered, and that its continuation would have serious consequences for its relations with the United States."


QUOTE
Cheney spoke Sunday afternoon with Georgian President Mikhail Saakashvili, Cheney press secretary Lee Ann McBride said. "The vice president expressed the United States' solidarity with the Georgian people and their democratically elected government in the face of this threat to Georgia's sovereignty and territorial integrity," McBride said.

Asked to explain Cheney's phrase "must not go unanswered," White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe said, "It means it must not stand." White House officials refused to indicate what recourse the United States might have if the military onslaught continues.


QUOTE
A Russian official said more than 2,000 people had been killed in South Ossetia since Friday; the figure could not be confirmed independently.


http://ap.google.com/article/ALeqM5j3b6xoP...9OtitgD92FPIFO0

I beg to differ:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/26125821/

Not confirmation of facts and figures- no.
Just what the people from that place think themselves.
Bloody well enough for me:
'Democratically elected leader' -my foot.
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Devilsadvocate
post Aug 10 2008, 10:50 PM
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I fear that the Russians may be hell-bend on getting rid of that little bastard.
Because if they don't, and Georgia becomes a member of NATO, then the whole of NATO may be compelled one day to react if someone can put together some crap incident resulting in a Russian response.
The relevant article in the NATO-treaty states:
"An attack one one of the member-states of NATO shall be treated as an attack on all NATO-member-states..."

If they do, they will run the risk of George (...the American one) invoking that idiotic defense-pact with George (...the Georgian one: Yeah, yeah- I know he's called 'Mikhail'...)

(PS: Just for the entertainment-value:
Did anyone notice that that article by our 'friend' Mr. Steele claimed that Georgia already *was* a member-state of NATO...?)

This post has been edited by Devilsadvocate: Aug 10 2008, 10:52 PM
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JFK
post Aug 10 2008, 11:06 PM
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And it begins.

http://www.stuff.co.nz/4651748a6026.html

QUOTE
Oil rises towards US$116
Reuters | Monday, 11 August 2008

Crude oil rose towards US$116 a barrel overnight, rebounding from the previous session's US$5 decline on concern fighting between Russia and Georgia could disrupt energy exports from the Caspian region.

US light crude for September delivery was up 51 cents at US$115.71 a barrel by 0026 GMT, after rising as much as US$1.19 earlier.

The contract had finished US$4.8 lower at US$115.20 a barrel on Friday, before falling to US$114.90 in post-settlement trade, the lowest level since early May.

Oil has shed about US$31, or 21 percent, since its peak of over US$147.27 struck on July 11 on concerns of a slowdown in demand.

London Brent crude rose 66 cents to US$113.99 on Monday.

"I think the military conflict in Georgia is the key factor in pushing up oil prices this morning. So much has happened so quickly since we first heard of Russia's attack last week," said David Moore, an analyst at the Commonwealth Bank of Australia in Sydney.

"There is also some degree of a technical rebound after oil's sharp fall on Friday."

The simmering conflict between Russia and its small, former Soviet neighbour Georgia erupted late on Thursday when Georgia sent forces into South Ossetia, a small pro-Russian province which threw off Georgian rule in the 1990s.

The fighting has also suspended shipments of oil and oil products from two of Georgia's ports, Azeri state energy firm SOCAR said on Saturday.

Although news of the Georgian conflict had first emerged on Friday, oil prices had continued to fall as traders ignored the attacks and focused on a rising dollar as well as expectations of slowing global energy demand.

But analysts said oil prices were expected to remain volatile with plenty of upside risks due to geopolitical tensions in the Middle East which could potentially disrupt supplies.

In Turkey, a pipeline blast at a crude pipeline last week halted loadings of Azeri Light crude shipped to the Turkish port of Ceyhan.

A fire was still burning at the Baku-Tblisi-Ceyhan pipeline on Saturday and repairs may take one to two weeks or longer, sources at Turkey's state-owned pipeline company Botas said BP has also cut output by at least 400,000 barrels a day at the Azeri-Chirag Gunashli oilfields because of the fire.

Iran, the world's fourth-largest crude exporter, will not back down on its nuclear stance despite the threat of tighter sanctions, Iranian media quoted a government spokesman as saying on Sunday.

Tensions between Iran and the West over its disputed nuclear programme has been a key driver for oil prices in recent months.
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CocaineImportAge...
post Aug 11 2008, 12:05 AM
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QUOTE
At a news conference in Moscow, the South Ossetian envoy to Russia, Dmitry Medoyev, said the situation had significantly worsened since last month's visit by U.S. Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice.


...coincidences!... coincidences!

...taken from here!


...also...As usual, the BBC is twisting and distorting the news coming out of the Georgia region


...also other items worth the read on this site!

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albertchampion
post Aug 11 2008, 12:34 AM
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perhaps putin has finally concluded that the vulnerability of the usa has become too pronounced to ignore. and that he holds the whip-hand.

that when everyone thought that the amerikan-russo war was over, putin recognized that the real weapon will be hydrocarbons. and that the usa has very little of that within its arsenal.

if there is a grand alliance of countries opposed to amerikan-orchestrated empire, then venezuela, iran, and russia will decide to withhold hydrocarbons from the amerikan empire and its allies.

russia can shut down natural gas pipelines supplying western europe in a hearbeat. and to reopen them, nato forces would have to play napoleon. a nuclear war doesn't work for a reopening of natural gas transport.

if russia decides to declare a force majeure and cease deliveries of hydrocarbons to western europe, then the western european countries will tank economically so fast it will make your head spin. and winter is coming soon.

the usa and its nato allies cannot do anything constructive in this matter. they have no significant hydrocarbon assets and no military force levels capable of going toe to toe with another real military.

hell, if the bushits intended to triumph in iraq, afghanistan - the bushits have lost those contests. and lost them years ago.

so, one must consider the global aspects of this situation.

1. if i were ruling china, i would immediately seize the bush family. and suspend the olympics.

2. if i were medvedev, i would immediately curtail all hydrocarbon deliveries to western europe.

3. if i were iran, i would close the straits immediately.

4. the prc can close the panama canal now.

5. and if you wanted to learn what real saboteurs could do within the usa, i can assure you that the hydrocarbon processing and transport facilities within the usa are still so vulnerable that less than 500 individuals could take them out. in a twinkling of an eye.

and perhaps that is what roland carnaby noticed along the houston ship channel and in the port of houston. and why he was taken out. in what i think can only be described as a state-sanctioned "hit".

anyway, to conduct large-scale, multi-front military activities, two things are required: lots of trained military personnel and lots of hydrocarbons.

on this chessboard, who will it be turning over the king?

and never forget, hydrocarbons are more than fuel. they are lubricants. and petrochemical feedstocks. fertilizer feedstocks.

if this is to be the overture for the final race for the control of the planet, then i would have to say that the bushits have lost already. much like the british empire after ww2, the usa has become the successor lion: virtually declawed, toothless, and impoverished.
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Timothy Osman
post Aug 11 2008, 04:12 AM
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This whole thing is like Zbigniew Brzezinski's book the Grand Chessboard being played out like some sick pantomime. Not that I ever read it, since he might receive the proceeds of any purchase but here are some quotes.

QUOTE
Never before has a populist democracy attained international supremacy. But the pursuit of power is not a goal that commands popular passion, except in conditions of a sudden threat or challenge to the public's sense of domestic well-being. The economic self-denial (that is, defense spending) and the human sacrifice (casualties, even among professional soldiers) required in the effort are uncongenial to democratic instincts. Democracy is inimical to imperial mobilization." (p.35)

“The momentum of Asia's economic development is already generating massive pressures for the exploration and exploitation of new sources of energy and the Central Asian region and the Caspian Sea basin are known to contain reserves of natural gas and oil that dwarf those of Kuwait, the Gulf of Mexico, or the North Sea." (p.125)

"In the long run, global politics are bound to become increasingly uncongenial to the concentration of hegemonic power in the hands of a single state. Hence, America is not only the first, as well as the only, truly global superpower, but it is also likely to be the very last." (p.209)

"Moreover, as America becomes an increasingly multi-cultural society, it may find it more difficult to fashion a consensus on foreign policy issues, except in the circumstance of a truly massive and widely perceived direct external threat."


QUOTE
"Two basic steps are thus required: first, to identify the geostrategically dynamic Eurasian states that have the power to cause a potentially important shift in the international distribution of power and to decipher the central external goals of their respective political elites and the likely consequences of their seeking to attain them;... second, to formulate specific U.S. policies to offset, co-opt, and/or control the above..." (p. 40)

"...To put it in a terminology that harkens back to the more brutal age of ancient empires, the three grand imperatives of imperial geostrategy are to prevent collusion and maintain security dependence among the vassals, to keep tributaries pliant and protected, and to keep the barbarians from coming together."



QUOTE
[Referring to an area he calls the "Eurasian Balkans" and a 1997 map in which he has circled the exact location of the current conflict - describing it as the central region of pending conflict for world dominance] "Moreover, they [the Central Asian Republics] are of importance from the standpoint of security and historical ambitions to at least three of their most immediate and more powerful neighbors, namely Russia, Turkey and Iran, with China also signaling an increasing political interest in the region. But the Eurasian Balkans are infinitely more important as a potential economic prize: an enormous concentration of natural gas and oil reserves is located in the region, in addition to important minerals, including gold." (p.124)

"The world's energy consumption is bound to vastly increase over the next two or three decades. Estimates by the U.S. Department of energy anticipate that world demand will rise by more than 50 percent between 1993 and 2015, with the most significant increase in consumption occurring in the Far East. The momentum of Asia's economic development is already generating massive pressures for the exploration and exploitation of new sources of energy and the Central Asian region and the Caspian Sea basin are known to contain reserves of natural gas and oil that dwarf those of Kuwait, the Gulf of Mexico, or the North Sea." (p.125)


http://www.wanttoknow.info/brzezinskigrandchessboard

Now we're seeing how much a bare bear can bear.

Found a free version. ph34r.gif

http://sandiego.indymedia.org/media/2006/10/119973.pdf

This post has been edited by Timothy Osman: Aug 11 2008, 04:56 AM
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Omega892R09
post Aug 11 2008, 08:17 AM
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QUOTE (Timothy Osman @ Aug 9 2008, 07:12 AM) *

Nice one Tim. thumbsup.gif
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Omega892R09
post Aug 11 2008, 08:23 AM
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QUOTE (CocaineImportAgency @ Aug 9 2008, 03:05 AM) *

Ah! The British Bullshit Corporation.

I have added my 2p but what are the odds on my opinion being published?

QUOTE
DEBATE:Can South Ossetia find peace?

SENT:11-Aug-2008 12:56

COMMENT:Will the BBC start reporting why this is happening in Ossetia? There is a long history of Georgian oppression of those people. With strategic etc., oil industry interests in the area a push towards conflict with Russia has been stage managed by Condoleezza Rice and Dick Cheney. The former having recently visited and urged Georgia’s membership of NATO angering Russia, which appears the aim of Cheney and US aircraft are now involved in returning Georgian troops home from Iraq to fight Russia.

COMMENT STATUS:Awaiting moderation


EDIT: PS

Uh! Oh!
Well it looks like my BBC HYS post is going to fall through the cracks in the floor, as so many have. I have just had a look and later posts have appeared but mine is still STATUS:Awaiting moderation

The moderation there is capricious at best.

This post has been edited by Omega892R09: Aug 11 2008, 11:53 AM
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