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New Aa77 Animation Released By Faa Supports North Side

aristo
post Oct 9 2008, 09:15 AM
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Here is NTSB Flight Path Study American Airlines Flight 77 year 2002


ATC Report American Airlines Flight 77


Others
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DbleTrble
post Jan 7 2009, 02:23 PM
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QUOTE (SPreston @ Oct 1 2008, 02:01 PM) *
On the same thread at the beginning, it had been determined that an Air West A320 aircraft had landed at Reagan at 9:39 with the tail # N644AW. (Flight 77 tail # N644AA) But it was determined through records that Air West did not use that tail # until 2003. But apparently somebody was using that tail # on 9-11-2001.

Also a good write-up on the mystery tail # on the old invision board.



It seems that the airwest A320 was already carrying tail #N644AW in 1998. See website here under and pictures from 1998 to 2006.

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.sear...amp;lastcheck=1
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SPreston
post Jan 7 2009, 07:17 PM
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QUOTE (DbleTrble @ Jan 7 2009, 01:23 PM) *
It seems that the airwest A320 was already carrying tail #N644AW in 1998. See website here under and pictures from 1998 to 2006.

http://www.airliners.net/search/photo.sear...amp;lastcheck=1


Yep sure did; three years prior.

QUOTE
N644AW is Assigned
Model A320-231
Certificate Issue Date 02/10/2003
http://registry.faa.gov/aircraftinquiry/NN...p;cmndfind.y=16


It would appear FAA deliberately lied.
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rob balsamo
post Jan 7 2009, 07:51 PM
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Thats not a lie... they may have had to re-issue the certificate for a number of reasons...


For instance, I earned my Commercial in 1996. Pilots are required to change address with FAA within 30 days of a move. I updated when i was in TN in 2007. My Date Of Issue (DOI) is 2007 now.... You will never know the original issue date unless you petition the FAA.


The GL's messed this one up too when checking my certificates. I updated my Commercial while based at CVG i think in 2003/4. They checked it in 2006 with a DOI of 2003/4 (i forget if it was 03 or 04...). They thought i lied about being an airline pilot for more than 5 years. It blew up in their face like everything else they theorize about P4T. Many still refuse to believe i was ever a pilot and/or believe im an "ex-commercial pilot". They arent too bright over there...
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kawika
post Sep 5 2011, 07:57 PM
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QUOTE (paranoia @ Sep 23 2008, 06:48 AM) *
on a whim tonight, i did some digging over at STK.com and found some "interesting stuff":



Proceedings of the 2002 Winter Simulation Conference
E. Yücesan, C.-H. Chen, J. L. Snowdon, and J. M. Charnes, eds.
http://www.informs-cs.org/wsc02papers/001.pdf

KEYNOTE ADDRESS
ADDRESSING THE CHALLENGES OF AEROSPACE AND DEFENSE
INITIATIVES USING SOFTWARE ANALYSIS TOOLS

Paul L. Graziani
Analytical Graphics, Inc.
40, General Warren Boulevard
Malvern, PA 19355, U.S.A.

General public awareness – Two- and threedimensional analysis tools helped investigators understand details of the September 11 terrorist attack and assess possible future countermeasures. Actual FAA radar data was used to accurately recreate the events and model the flight paths of hijacked airlines as well as the responding military aircraft. This software provided a graphical timeline of all aircraft movements to the highest levels of NORAD and US Space Command, and was used as an interactive tool for forensic examination of the associated events.

AUTHOR BIOGRAPHY
PAUL L. GRAZIANI is the President and Chief Executive Officer of Analytical Graphics, Inc. (AGI). He is one of three founders of AGI; the producer of commercially available analysis and visualization software used by more than 27,000 aerospace, defense, and intelligence professionals worldwide. Graziani started his career at General Electric Space Division in 1980, where he held a number of software and engineering roles. From 1986 to 1988, he led a significant research and development project on 3-D graphics for a large classified satellite system. In January 1989, Graziani left GE to start AGI in his living room. He and two other founders created Satellite Tool Kit (STK), the company's flagship product. Using computer graphics to translate raw data into manageable information, STK offers a revolutionary approach to space systems analysis. Graziani served as President of AGI from 1989 to 1991, and then assumed the role of Chief Technology Officer. He has served as President and CEO from 1994 to the present.




powerpoint presentation about the WTC's and Pentagon:



(2002)
http://www.agi.com/downloads/events/usersC..._NORAD_9-11.ppt


using the STK site's search for "FAA", the above link/ppt presentation,
was also found here with the date 2004-07-07:





just in case anyone needs it - a POWERPOINT VIEWER (free):
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details...;displaylang=en


***


pretty interesting huh?

they have a forum, if anyone wants to ask some questions,
though of course,
there is no guarantee that they will or are able to respond,
but perhaps worth a try none the less?


http://www.stk.com/agiforum/
https://www.stk.com/MyAccount/index.cfm


salute.gif


Sorry Gents, but I am coming in way late in the game.

I called STK and they said they did not produce the animation. They said their logo gets plugged in automatically when a client uses their software.

I am scouring this thread looking for the answer to this question:

What dataset was used to produce this clip?
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paranoia
post Sep 5 2011, 09:08 PM
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forgive me K, im a bit rusty as this stuff is from 2 years ago, but supposedly:

QUOTE
Proceedings of the 2002 Winter Simulation Conference
E. Yücesan, C.-H. Chen, J. L. Snowdon, and J. M. Charnes, eds.
http://www.informs-cs.org/wsc02papers/001.pdf

KEYNOTE ADDRESS
ADDRESSING THE CHALLENGES OF AEROSPACE AND DEFENSE
INITIATIVES USING SOFTWARE ANALYSIS TOOLS

...Actual FAA radar data was used to accurately recreate the events and model the flight paths of hijacked airlines as well as the responding military aircraft. This software provided a graphical timeline of all aircraft movements to the highest levels of NORAD and US Space Command, and was used as an interactive tool for forensic examination of the associated events.


also, if you follow the rest of the earlier part of this thread, you'll find that a woman named Cherie Gott (of norad if i remember correctly) put the whole thing together, presumably using the above-cited "faa radar data".

ps - have a look here:
http://www.agi.com/downloads/support/produ...AD_9-11.ppt.pdf
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kawika
post Sep 5 2011, 10:04 PM
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I note this Powerpoint by STK is June 2002. It shows the AA77 animation in it, so we can assume it was part of an effort to document the activity.

If doctored, they had only a few months to do it, not seven years. Question is, why did they wait until 2008 to release the AA77 clip?

I still want to know what dataset they used for the baseline?

I contacted Mark Olsen the maker of the FAA exe files that John Farmer obtained. He told me which datasets were used. I am still trying to find an expert to decipher the maze contained in the text files.

Let's figure out what is legitimate here.

Did NORAD use the FDR or the RADES or the ASR?
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paranoia
post Sep 5 2011, 10:43 PM
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again K my memory is hazy - so im speaking informally, but i believe this animation had been shown to defense industry insiders as early as 2002, and though publicly available (on the internet) at some point after that (exactly when - i dont know at the moment), no outside-industry people knew to look for it. but it wasnt discovered or paid attention to (by outsiders) until after it was obtained via the 2008 foia and released by farmer on his youtube channel.

regarding it being "doctored", i dont have the expertise to say. but as far as what was used to create the animation, i would contact cherie gott (her old contact info is on the previous page of this thread and she currently has a Linkedin page) for an official answer. but check this first:

http://www.scribd.com/doc/50920695/GSA-B12...-Animations-905

QUOTE
MEMORANDUM TO: FAA HQ Major W. J. Nix, USMC FROM: HQ NORAD/USSPACECOM/ANALYSIS (NSPAN) DATE: 08 March 2002 SUBJECT: Releasability of FAA radar data as recorded by 84th RADES and obtained by HQ NORAD/ANALYSIS

Enclosed is a CD containing 3 animated video clips that were produced within NORAD headquarters subsequent to the 11 September national tragedy. The airliners and NORAD interceptors depicted in the scenario were modeled using FAA radar data as obtained from the 84th Radar Evaluation Squadron (84th RADES). We have received numerous requests to release these videos outside of the FOUO* channels that we have confined them to. One current request is for release of the videos to the Deputy Chief of Staff of the German Air Force, who saw them at a meeting of the NATO Air Defense Committee (NADC). We are looking for FAA release authority / guidance so that we can make a final determination as to the appropriateness of providing these for the NADC plenary session on April 16th. We seek your guidance for release of this data because of the requirement for releasability to be determined by the owner/creator of the product in question. While we produced the final video product, the data itself comes from radars owned by the FAA and recorded / provided by 84th RADES. The enclosed scenarios depict the flight paths of the four hijacked airliners and the NORAD interceptors; the overview scenario also depicts the approximate locations of the FAA radars that contributed sensor observations. We believe all of the data used in this scenario to be unclassified; however we are unaware of any caveats and limitations that might exist which govern further distribution of the data itself or of products created using the data.

Cherie D. Gott, GS-14 Operations Research Analyst HQ NORAD/USSPACECOM/ANALYSIS enclosure: 911 Animation CD

(read the rest for more info)




*FOUO = for official use only, but for a breakdown of its various classifications see here:
http://www.fas.org/sgp/othergov/dhs-sbu.html
http://www.dtic.mil/whs/directives/corres/...520001_vol4.pdf

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