Learning How To Be Free: An Invitation, from a painter |

Oct 17 2008, 09:51 PM
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∞* M E R C U R I A L *∞ Group: Valued Member Posts: 5,870 Joined: 25-August 06 From: SFO Member No.: 16 |
NOTE: The original Topic Title of this thread was "Learning How To Read . . ." but I've changed it in hopes that we can begin to escape the literal associations of the word "read". If "free" suffers the same fate, I may change the Title yet again. I've been thinking about this for a long time. Months. Over the course of being a member of this forum, especially in the context of "Alternative Theories," I've occasionally mentioned the necessity of "knowing how to read." Of course what I mean by this isn't directly related to knowing how to read the words you see before you here. All of us know how to do that more or less. If you're not familiar with my having said anything about this, I point you specifically to this post on my pinned and closed 'esoteric' thread here: http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....t&p=7894218 A few members of this forum have asked me to say more about what I mean by this "learning how to read" business and it is this that I've been contemplating for a long time now. Having given it some serious consideration I've decided to post and pin this thread here as an open "invitation." First I am inviting you to engage with me and one another in some discussion here about this topic. However, I am very aware that discussion of this topic is by necessity limited so long as it remains nothing more than discussion. To go further requires something more of us: Specifically a willingness to engage in exercises and experiments which can begin to move us beyond mere discussion into the realm of actual experience and knowledge based upon that experience. This invitation, therefore, is offered as a starting point in the hope that some of you may wish to go further and take all this to another level. All I will say about that at this point is that the possibility exists, although necessarily limited by this forum/text medium within which we correspond. For this purpose I'm in the process of establishing another forum, participation in which will be by invitation only and will require that users not be anonymous and have a genuine interest in coming to a more direct understanding through observation. So, I will leave this as it is. Feel free to ask whatever questions you wish and we'll see how this goes. |
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Nov 14 2008, 12:15 PM
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∞* M E R C U R I A L *∞ Group: Valued Member Posts: 5,870 Joined: 25-August 06 From: SFO Member No.: 16 |
Source: http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10758596
If civilizations were known to rise and fall, by a dominant minority, who wanted to preserve the harvested knowledge of each civilization, the moon would make a wonderful archive. Did anyone notice, everyone is suddenly going to the moon again. ...I wonder, what's up... Ancient knowledge is everywhere, all around us and in us. But it is the nature of esotericism that this knowledge can not be received or understood if it is not accompanied by an intentional, inner effort to be qualitatively and quantitatively more aware or more conscious. It isn't a matter of a passive acquisition of "more information" recorded like data on a disc. Knowledge is more than information. Transformation is the possibility, attention is the key: QUOTE During one conversation with G. [G. I. Gurdjieff] in our group, which was beginning to become permanent, I asked: “Why, if ancient knowledge has been preserved and if, speaking in general, there exists a knowledge distinct from our science and philosophy or even surpassing it, is it so carefully concealed, why is it not made common property? Why are the men who possess this knowledge unwilling to let it pass into the general circulation of life for the sake of a better and more successful struggle against deceit, evil, and ignorance? This is, I think, a question which usually arises in everyone’s mind on first acquaintance with the ideas of esotericism. “There are two answers to that,” said G. “In the first place, this knowledge is not concealed; and in the second place, it cannot, from its very nature, become common property. We will consider the second of these statements first. I will prove to you afterwards that knowledge” (he emphasized the word) “is far more accessible to those capable of assimilating it than is usually supposed; and that the whole trouble is that people either do not want it or cannot receive it. “But first of all another thing must be understood, namely, that knowledge cannot belong to all, cannot even belong to many. Such is the law. You do not understand this because you do not understand that knowledge, like everything else in the world, is material. It is material, and this means that it possesses all the characteristics of materiality. One of the first characteristics of materiality is that matter is always limited, that is to say, the quantity of matter in a given place and under given conditions is limited. Even the sand of the desert and the water of the sea is a definite and unchangeable quantity. So that, if knowledge is material, then it means that there is a definite quantity of it in a given place at a given time. It may be said that, in the course of a certain period of time, say a century, humanity has a definite amount of knowledge at its disposal. But we know, even from an ordinary observation of life, that the matter of knowledge possesses entirely different qualities according to whether it is taken in small or large quantities. Taken in a large quantity in a given place, that is by one man, let us say, or by a small group of men, it produces very good results; taken in a small quantity (that is, by every one of a very large number of people), it gives no results at all; or it may give even negative results, contrary to those expected. Thus if a certain definite quantity of knowledge is distributed among millions of people, each individual will receive very little, and this small amount of knowledge will change nothing either in his life or in his understanding of things. And however large the number of people who receive this small amount of knowledge, it will change nothing in their lives, except, perhaps, to make them still more difficult. “But if, on the contrary, large quantities of knowledge are concentrated in a small number of people, then this knowledge will give very great results. From this point of view it is far more advantageous that knowledge should be preserved among a small number of people and not dispersed among the masses. “If we take a certain quantity of gold and decide to gild a number of objects with it, we must know, or calculate, exactly what number of objects can be gilded with this quantity of gold. If we try to gild a greater number, they will be covered with gold unevenly, in patches, and will look much worse than if they had no gold at all; in fact we shall lose our gold. “The distribution of knowledge is based upon exactly the same principle. If knowledge is given to all, nobody will get any. If it is preserved among a few, each will receive not only enough to keep, but to increase, what he receives. “At the first glance this theory seems very unjust, since the position of those who are, so to speak, denied knowledge in order that others may receive a greater share may seem very sad and undeservedly harder than it ought to be. Actually, however, this is not so at all; and in the distribution of knowledge there is not the slightest injustice. “The fact is that the enormous majority of people do not want any knowledge whatever; they refuse their share of it and do not even take the ration allotted to them, in the general distribution, for the purposes of life. This is particularly evident in times of mass madness such as wars, revolutions, and so on, when men suddenly seem to lose even the small amount of common sense they had and turn into complete automatons, giving themselves over to wholesale destruction in vast numbers, in other words, even losing the instinct of self-preservation. Owing to this, enormous quantities of knowledge remain, so to speak, unclaimed and can be distributed among those who realize its value. “There is nothing unjust in this, because those who receive knowledge take nothing that belongs to others, deprive others of nothing; they take only what others have rejected as useless and what would in any case be lost if they did not take it. “The collecting of knowledge by some depends on the rejection of knowledge by others. “There are periods in the life of humanity, which generally coincide with the beginning of the fall of cultures and civilizations, when the masses irretrievably lose their reason and begin to destroy everything that has been created by centuries and millenniums of culture. Such periods of mass madness, often coinciding with geological cataclysms, climatic changes, and similar phenomena of a planetary character, release a very great quantity of the matter of knowledge. This, in its turn, necessitates the work of collecting this matter of knowledge which would otherwise be lost. Thus the work of collecting scattered matter of knowledge frequently coincides with the beginning of the destruction and fall of cultures and civilizations. “This aspect of the question is clear. The crowd neither wants nor seeks knowledge, and the leaders of the crowd, in their own interests, try to strengthen its fear and dislike of everything new and unknown. The slavery in which mankind lives is based upon this fear. It is even difficult to imagine all the horror of this slavery. We do not understand what people are losing. But in order to understand the cause of this slavery it is enough to see how people live, what constitutes the aim of their existence, the object of their desires, passions, and aspirations, of what they think, of what they talk, what they serve and what they worship. Consider what the cultured humanity of our time spends money on; even leaving the war out, what commands the highest price; where the biggest crowds are. If we think for a moment about these questions it becomes clear that humanity, as it is now, with the interests it lives by, cannot expect to have anything different from what it has. But, as I have already said, it cannot be otherwise. Imagine that for the whole of mankind half a pound of knowledge is allotted a year. If this knowledge is distributed among everyone, each will receive so little that he will remain the fool he was. But, thanks to the fact that very few want to have this knowledge, those who take it are able to get, let us say, a grain each, and acquire the possibility of becoming more intelligent. All cannot become intelligent even if they wish. And if they did become intelligent it would not help matters. There exists a general equilibrium which cannot be upset. “That is one aspect. The other, as I have already said, consists in the fact that no one is concealing anything; there is no mystery whatever. But the acquisition or transmission of true knowledge demands great labor and great effort both of him who receives and of him who gives. And those who possess this knowledge are doing everything they can to transmit and communicate it to the greatest possible number of people, to facilitate people’s approach to it and enable them to prepare themselves to receive the truth. But knowledge cannot be given by force to anyone and, as I have already said, an unprejudiced survey of the average man’s life, of what fills his day and of the things he is interested in, will at once show whether it is possible to accuse men who possess knowledge of concealing it, of not wishing to give it to people, or of not wishing to teach people what they know themselves. “He who wants knowledge must himself make the initial efforts to find the source of knowledge and to approach it, taking advantage of the help and indications which are given to all, but which people, as a rule, do not want to see or recognize. Knowledge cannot come to people without effort on their own part. They understand this very well in connection with ordinary knowledge, but in the case of great knowledge, when they admit the possibility of its existence, they find it possible to expect something different. Everyone knows very well that if, for instance, a man wants to learn Chinese, it will take several years of intense work; everyone knows that five years are needed to grasp the principles of medicine, and perhaps twice as many years for the study of painting or music. And yet there are theories which affirm that knowledge can come to people without any effort on their part, that they can acquire it even in sleep. The very existence of such theories constitutes an additional explanation of why knowledge cannot come to people. At the same time it is essential to understand that man’s independent efforts to attain anything in this direction can also give no results. A man can only attain knowledge with the help of those who possess it. This must be understood from the very beginning. One must learn from him who knows.” From P. D. Ouspensky's, In Search of the Miraculous, quoting G. I. Gurdjieff, pp 35, 36. |
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painter Learning How To Be Free: An Invitation Oct 17 2008, 09:51 PM
bill There are quite a few of us here that are of the v... Oct 18 2008, 12:11 AM
painter Thanks, bill. That's correct, I'm not talk... Oct 18 2008, 01:47 PM
Christophera QUOTE (painter @ Oct 16 2008, 04:47 PM) T... Oct 27 2008, 09:55 PM

lunk QUOTE (Christophera @ Oct 27 2008, 06:55 ... Oct 27 2008, 11:05 PM
gugu2dede2 QUOTE (painter @ Oct 18 2008, 05:47 PM) T... Aug 6 2010, 04:25 PM
Sanders Thanks painter, I'm finally starting to unders... Oct 18 2008, 02:25 PM
painter Welcome to the discussion, Sanders. I was hoping y... Oct 18 2008, 02:34 PM
Rickysa I've been working my way through "A Sense... Oct 27 2008, 09:49 AM
painter QUOTE (Rickysa @ Oct 27 2008, 06:49 AM) I... Oct 27 2008, 01:51 PM
Sanders I'm truly an amateur at this, and I only have ... Oct 27 2008, 01:09 PM
painter QUOTE (Sanders @ Oct 27 2008, 10:09 AM) I... Oct 27 2008, 02:26 PM

dMole QUOTE (painter @ Oct 27 2008, 12:26 PM) (... Oct 29 2008, 08:03 PM
Omega892R09 QUOTE (Sanders @ Oct 25 2008, 04:09 PM) I... Oct 28 2008, 12:25 PM
lunk I think it's more learning to discern the trut... Oct 27 2008, 03:08 PM
bill Learning
learning implies that an organism can in... Oct 28 2008, 01:05 AM
Christophera QUOTE (bill @ Oct 26 2008, 04:05 AM) Lear... Oct 28 2008, 06:09 PM
painter Whoa whoa whoa!
Let's slow down a bit.
Ea... Oct 28 2008, 08:44 PM
Christophera QUOTE (painter @ Oct 26 2008, 11:44 PM) W... Oct 28 2008, 11:17 PM
painter QUOTE (Christophera @ Oct 28 2008, 08:17 ... Oct 29 2008, 01:29 PM
Christophera QUOTE (painter @ Oct 27 2008, 04:29 PM) T... Oct 29 2008, 03:03 PM
KP50 I am a product of my background and random events ... Oct 29 2008, 03:04 PM
lunk Personality can exist without conscious memory.
... Oct 29 2008, 03:58 PM
Christophera QUOTE (dMole @ Oct 27 2008, 11:03 PM) Yup... Oct 30 2008, 01:21 PM
Sanders QUOTE (Christophera @ Nov 3 2008, 12:21 P... Oct 30 2008, 04:17 PM
Christophera QUOTE (Sanders @ Oct 28 2008, 07:17 PM) I... Oct 31 2008, 04:31 AM
lunk It's interesting that information between comp... Oct 31 2008, 08:25 AM
dMole Not to completely derail painter's thread, but... Oct 31 2008, 03:14 PM
Christophera QUOTE (painter @ Oct 16 2008, 12:51 AM) F... Nov 2 2008, 11:38 PM
dMole I suppose that time, linearity, and a definition o... Nov 2 2008, 11:56 PM
GroundPounder alright painter, you piqued my curiousity.
what d... Nov 9 2008, 07:38 PM
painter QUOTE (GroundPounder @ Nov 9 2008, 03:38 ... Nov 10 2008, 04:18 AM
lunk Ooh, hey,
my hand's up, I got the answer,
can... Nov 10 2008, 01:40 AM
The artful dodger Fantastic thread... many thanks for posting.
Isn... Nov 10 2008, 10:27 AM
dMole TAD just reminded me of an excellent book that was... Nov 10 2008, 10:57 AM
painter You probably noticed that I changed this topic... Nov 11 2008, 03:52 AM
dMole I wouldn't say I'm "caught up" i... Nov 11 2008, 06:20 AM
painter QUOTE (dMole @ Nov 11 2008, 02:20 AM) I... Nov 11 2008, 02:48 PM
GroundPounder saw the new title, thought it was a new topic...ex... Nov 11 2008, 07:28 AM
painter QUOTE (GroundPounder @ Nov 11 2008, 03:28... Nov 11 2008, 01:45 PM
Sanders I don't care which title ...
But the action... Nov 11 2008, 12:59 PM
painter QUOTE (Sanders @ Nov 11 2008, 08:59 AM) .... Nov 11 2008, 02:02 PM
Wingmaster05 To answer the question, "tell me who you are... Nov 11 2008, 02:52 PM
painter QUOTE (Wingmaster05 @ Nov 11 2008, 10:52 ... Nov 11 2008, 03:16 PM
lunk The answers are everywhere.
It's formulating t... Nov 11 2008, 08:38 PM
painter QUOTE (lunk @ Nov 11 2008, 04:38 PM) The ... Nov 12 2008, 02:01 PM
Rickysa I am the same person I was as a small child
I sti... Nov 12 2008, 11:57 AM
painter QUOTE (Rickysa @ Nov 12 2008, 07:57 AM) I... Nov 12 2008, 02:30 PM
painter I've written several posts on other threads, most ... Nov 14 2008, 12:13 PM
painter Source: http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.... Nov 14 2008, 12:16 PM
painter Source: http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.... Nov 14 2008, 12:17 PM
sb5walker Painter, great series of posts - offers me an oppo... Nov 14 2008, 11:07 PM
painter QUOTE (sb5walker @ Nov 14 2008, 07:07 PM)... Nov 15 2008, 02:28 AM
painter Source: http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index.... Nov 14 2008, 12:18 PM
GroundPounder has any body read 'disappearance of the univer... Nov 14 2008, 01:59 PM
lunk Intuition, vs, subliminally planted predictive pro... Nov 16 2008, 06:40 AM
Willow Finding this very interesting, having been asking ... Feb 8 2009, 12:56 PM
painter QUOTE (Willow @ Feb 8 2009, 08:56 AM) ...... Feb 9 2009, 03:12 AM
Willow Why, thank you
Would be more than happy to enga... Feb 10 2009, 03:54 PM
Willow Been thinking about your ‘go find your question’ s... Feb 15 2009, 02:10 PM
painter QUOTE (Willow @ Feb 15 2009, 11:10 AM) Af... Mar 9 2009, 12:23 AM
Sanders You know, for any Kubrick fans out there there is ... Mar 11 2009, 01:42 PM
painter "Attention" is the key to everything.
W... Mar 11 2009, 02:08 PM
Willow Pardon my technical ineptitude (haven't clue h... Mar 11 2009, 03:12 PM
The artful dodger Willow, although I could turn around 180 degrees a... Mar 11 2009, 03:22 PM
Willow QUOTE (The artful dodger @ Mar 11 2009, 07... Mar 11 2009, 03:29 PM
The artful dodger Sorry Painter - you've already been there... Mar 11 2009, 03:29 PM
greenrayriver QUOTE First I am inviting you to engage with me an... Aug 7 2010, 11:49 AM
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