Sanders' Religion Thread, Begun @ LC Forum Options

[Sanders]

e-Dog and I have decided to re-constitute this from LC. It is a thread about the 3 major religions of the world. The goal was to follow the path of each from their common origins to the present day. We (a number of LC posters and I) got as far as the begining of the First Crusade while the thread was active.

What becomes of this thread when all the copying is done is not clear. It may be just a read-only thread for the Religion topic. Or it may be left open to posting, so we can finish the journey.

[Guest_librarian_*]

Posted by: GreatMuslim10 Jul 30 2006, 03:40 AM

Okay, let me first say that it is false that Muslims claim that "Allah" cannot be translated into different languages. Some are hesistant to do such a thing like call "Allah" "God" because the name God can be pluralized or have a gender by adding an "s" or "dess", whereas the name "Allah" cannot. Because of this, they believe that the name "Allah" seems to be the proper name for God. However, most Muslims believe you can say "God." Just that "Allah" seems to be better to use. The God in the Bible calls Himself "Yahweh," "Jehovah," and "Elohim" in the Bible because it is revealed in Hebrew. To say that Muslims worship a different "God" because they say "Allah" is just as illogical as saying that French people worship another God because they use the word "Dieu", that Spanish-speaking people worship a different God because they say "Dios" or that the Hebrews worshipped a different God because they sometimes call Him "Yahweh". Certainly, reasoning like this is quite ridiculous! It should also be mentioned, that claiming that any one language uses the only the correct word for God is tantamount to denying the universality of God's message to mankind, which was to all nations, tribes and people through various prophets who spoke different languages. be aware of the fact that some Christian missionary organizations print English literature intended to teach Christians about Islam which say such things as: "Allah is the god of the Muslims" and that "Muhammad came to get people to believe in the god Allah" - implying that "Allah" is some sort of false "god". However, when these same organizations print literature in the Arabic language, hoping to lead Arabic-speaking Muslims "to Christ", they use the word "Allah" for God. It seems that if they were on the side of truth, they would not have to resort to such inconsistencies. And on an even more ridiculous note . . . there are also missionary organizations that exceed this in ignorance (or deceit) by writing books that call on Muslims to give up their belief in "Allah", and instead worship the "Lord" Jesus, "the Son of God". Besides making it abundantly clear that they are outside the community of Pure Monotheism, the people who write such material don't even realize that if they wrote such a pamphlet in Arabic, it would be self-contradictory. This is because in an Arabic Bible Jesus is the "Son of Allah"! If an Arabic-speaking person gave up the worship of "Allah", they would have no God to worship, since "Allah" is simply the Arabic word for God! The Hebrew speaking ones of course called Him "Yahweh" or "Jehovah", which means "The LORD" or "GOD". "Yahweh" is a Hebrew-language word. "Allah" is both Arabic and Aramaic. And yes, God mentions Himself as "Yahweh" in the Qur'an. "Yahweh" is mentioned in the Qur'an when God says He is the Lord. "Yahweh" means Lord. "Jehovah" means God. So when He says Al- Rabb, it means "Lord" in Arabic, which is "Yahweh" or "Jehovah" in Hebrew. When He says Allah, it means "God" in Arabic, which is "Elohim" in Hebrew. You are using false language theories. So yes He does use these names to describe Himself, but only in a different language. Another false thing you say about the Koran is that God favors Ishmael over Isaac and that no prominence is given to Isaac. God says in the Koran to not make any differentiate between any of His prophets and messengers. And besides, Isaac's life is mentioned more in the Koran than Ishmael. Ishmael was the father of the Arabs and Isaac is the father of the Israelis. God made prophets out of Isaac's children. Jacob was his son and was a prophet. Joseph was a prophet and was his grandson. God sent Moses and Jesus to the Children of Israel (who were Jews). He sent prophets and messengers to the Jews, but they slain so many. So God became angry with them and His curse was upon them. That is why before 1948, so many Jews were scattered around the world. His curse was upon them. He gave them too many chances, and once they plotted to kill Jesus, He saved Prophet Jesus and lifted him to Heaven. That was their last strike. So God sent a prophet to the Arabs. He sent Muhammad as His last messenger and prophet. Through this, the Arabs were saved and Muhammad sent a universal message. God says in the Koran that He did indeed make a covenant with Abraham, but that they broke it. The Jews became wrong doers. "The Ka'aba still stands, without its idols, but with the Black Stone. The pilgrimage to the Ka'aba, to...kiss the sacred stone, to run between Safa and Marwa, and to climb Mount Arafa, was practiced by pious pagan Arabs for centuries before Muhammad. Why did your prophet keep, as part of Islam, these pagan rituals?" The Black Stone is not to be kissed. Don't judge a car by its driver. Those rituals were not practiced by Pagan Arabs. Muhammad chased out all of the idol worshippers and destroyed all 360 idols. As for Allah, that is false that He was an idol. He was believed to be the Supreme God that no one can see, but they sinned through associating partners with Him. That is why God sent Muhammad to them and the world. No doubt that the Children of Israel were God's chosen people, but they have deceived Him, and for that, His curse was upon the Jews. That is why there will be a war between Muslims and Jews. As for the verses you throw at me from the Bible, we don't believe in many of them because we believe they have been perverted. They were right originally, but not anymore. Like how the Bible mentions that Jesus is the son of God, that is wrong. It never originally stated that, but the Jews and Christians changed it. That is why God sent the Qur'an, the protected revelation. It has never been perverted. It holds no inconsistencies, unlike the Bible. The Bible holds many self contradictions and yet further proves that it cannot be the Word of God today. http://www.infidels.org/library/modern/jim...radictions.html Also,
to refute that God wants us to hate Christians and Muslims, read this verse "5:5 This day are (all) good things made lawful for you. The food of those who have received the Scripture is lawful for you, and your food is lawful for them. And so are the virtuous women of the believers and the virtuous women of those who received the Scripture before you (lawful for you) when ye give them their marriage portions and live with them in honour, not in fornication, nor taking them as secret concubines. Whoso denieth the faith, his work is vain and he will be among the losers in the Hereafter." You need to know the timing of when a verse came. God also mentions many times in the Koran of how He is pleased by many pious Jews and Christians. He does not want us to fight you. Also explain how Arab Christians and Arab Jews use "Allah" to say "God."

"How does Allah save sinners? It would be unjust to forgive the guilty without the penalty being paid. Where does Allah explain the penalty? When and by whom was that penalty paid? If Allah forgives, how does he forgive? Allah simply refuses to forgive or forgives whom he will, but there is no consistent or just basis for either. No Muslim can be sure Allah will forgive him. As a Christian I know for certain that I have been forgiven all my sins and that I have eternal life as a free gift from God through the death and resurrection of Christ and that I will be in heaven, not by my good works, but by Christ paying the penalty for my sins. Allah is merciful to those who do good. The Bible says that none do good, all have sinned, and that God saves sinners if they believe in the Christ who died for them.

You ask where Allah says in the Koran, "Let us make man in our image." I don't read Arabic so can't find that exact place but I was told by an Arabic scholar that in the Arabic that is what it says. However, the God of the Bible said, "Let us make man in our image." If Allah is the same God, why didn't he say that?"

Okay, here goes, God does save sinners when they repent. It would not be unjust to forgive the guilty if they feel guilty and repent. God explains the penalty as Hell for sinners, except for those whom He forgives. It is true, no Muslim can be sure that God will forgive him because only God knows. God is loving in the Koran. He is "The Merciful" and sent many prophets and messengers as a mercy for mankind. No one can be sure that there sins can be forgiven, except God but you are only to repent once, never do the sin again, and forget you ever did it. If you don't believe you will ever be forgiven, then you have taken the attribute of "The Merciful" and the "The Oft Forgiving" out of God. You sin through doing that. God didn't say that "Let Us make man in Our image" because that is idolatry to believe that you look like God. No one knows what God truly looks like. It is idolatry to draw a picture of Him.

"The Bible teaches that God's very essence is love and says, "God is love" (1 Jn 4:8). This is not true of Allah. The Bible repeatedly speaks of God's love for man and the love we must have for Him. But love is scarcely mentioned in the Koran. Not once is "love" listed in the index of the popular Marmaduke Pickthall translation of the Koran. Of Allah's 99 attributes, love is not one. "

Another lie. Al-Wadud (ÇáæÏæÏ) The Loving, the Kind One.