Sanders' Religion Thread, Begun @ LC Forum Options

[Guest_librarian_*]

Posted by: Daniels Aug 1 2006, 02:27 AM

QUOTE (Sanders @ Jul 31 2006, 11:56 AM)

A different question I might add, what lifted Europe out of the Dark Ages?  Was it the Renaissance?    Actually, it was probably the printing press more than anything - but what was it used to print??  The bible.

Then again, it might just have been greed. 

It's common knowledge that the sun rises in the east and sets in the west.

It is one of the great fundamental truths of religious history that the spiritual Sun rises in the East and sets in the West too.
All religions are born in the East. Christianity is often thought of as a European religion because that is where it has had its brightest effulgence. But of course it was born, like all religions, in the East.

Islam follows the same pattern of “rising in the East and setting in the West”.

The glory of Islam in its Golden Age was truly inspiring and not something that can be done justice in a forum post.

Gradually this Inspiration traveled across the spiritual sky to Europe where it gave birth to the Renaissance.

The Jewish religion, too, was born in the East but had its brightest effulgence in Greece — the West

The summary that follows is provided as an indicator of the glory of Islam in its Golden and how it went on to influence Europe. It was written by George Townshend who was summarizing some chapters of John William Draper’s “The Intellectual Development of Europe” 1853. Every student of religion can benefit greatly by this knowledge------------------------------------------"Because of the central position of the Quran, revered as a literary miracle, and because of Arabian pride in their language, which they held to be the one perfect tongue spoken by man and which is indeed regarded by scholars today as one of the greatest intellectual achievements of the race, literature in all its uses and forms was given a place of eminence. Schools and universities were founded and thronged by students of many nations. Great works were produced on all manner of subjects; great libraries were collected containing hundreds of thousands of volumes. The Caliphs ransacked the earth for knowledge, sending out expeditions of inquiry and making foreign lands and distant ages give up their lore. An army of translators was employed, rendering Greek, Egyptian, Indian and Jewish works into Arabic. Grammar and its laws were studied with great elaboration. Dictionaries, lexicons and encyclopedias on a vast scale were prepared. Paper was introduced from China; a new system of numerals (usually known as Arabic) from India. Arabic became the universal language. Caliphs would invite literary men of international repute to the court. Scholars, philosophers, poets, grammarians from diverse lands would find a meeting place in the great bookshops of the capital.

The pursuit of science, practical as well as abstract, kept pace with that of letters. In experimental science, in medicine and surgery, in chemistry and physics, in geography as well as in mathematics and astronomy, the Arabs led the world of that day. They invented a new and exquisite form of architecture, distinguished by its combination of airy grace with solid strength, and by its use of light. The influence of this style can be traced through India as far as Java, to China, to the Sudan and to the whole of Russia. They developed many branches of industry and improved methods of agriculture and horticulture. Introducing the use of the mariner’s compass their ships traversed the seas while caravans maintained a trade between all provinces of the empire, carrying produce from India and China, Turkistan and Russia, from Africa and the Malayan Archipelago.

The glory of Baghdad with its mosques and palaces, its temples of learning, its fragrant gardens, was reproduced in the lesser centers of the world of Islam: in Basra, in Bokhara, in Granada and Cordoba. It is written of the last-named city that at the height of its prosperity it contained more than 200,000 houses and more than a million inhabitants and that a man after sunset might walk in a straight line for ten miles along paved and illuminated streets—yet in Europe centuries later there was not a paved street in Paris nor a public lamp in London.

Cordoba was the first University founded in Europe, and in its halls multitudes of Christian scholars received instruction, among them being Gerbert who afterwards became Sylvester II, the brilliant Pope of Rome.

Inevitably, and in spite of the antagonism between Christendom and Islam, this advanced civilization influenced the course of life and thought in Europe. Through the Muslim outpost in Sicily and the scintillating brilliance of Muslim Spain, through the intelligence of scholars and the resources of the Muslim universities, through traders, through diplomats and travelers, through soldiers, sailors and reconquered peasants, new ideas, techniques, and attitudes passed from Islam to Western Europe.”
------------------------------------------

This post has been edited by e-dog: Nov 12 2006, 04:53 AM

[Guest_librarian_*]

Posted by: Sanders Aug 1 2006, 02:40 AM


Interesting

This post has been edited by e-dog: Nov 12 2006, 04:54 AM

[Guest_librarian_*]

Posted by: DayAfterTomorrow Aug 1 2006, 02:47 AM

...if you would like to here a hilarious story about how I was really humiliated by my boyfriends parents who are STRICTLY RELIGIOUS, then PM me. 

C'mon Kelly, post it so we can all see. 

You tell us an embarrasing story and I promise I'll tell you one.

I don't mind telling everyone, I just mind getting banned (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) .

As for everyone else, like I've always said, arguing religion is a moot point. Or as my 5 year old cousin would say, a "moo" point. I don't even know why I bother, actually I do, it stems from boredom, which is in severe excess around here.

I will say, honestly, that I am not informed enough on the subject to continue debating. Though, if you have to go to church for some reason and need a recommendation as to which anti-bacterial to use, I'm your gal.

[Guest_librarian_*]

Posted by: Daniels Aug 1 2006, 03:24 AM

QUOTE (Sanders @ Aug 1 2006, 02:40 AM)
Interesting  

Yes. I find it interesting that there are many conspiracies in this world.

The concealment of the Golden Age of Islam and our debt of gratitude to them by centuries of religious and cultural prejudice is one such conspiracy.

As John William Draper has stated in his seminal work, ‘The Intellectual Development of Europe,’ “I have to deplore the systematic manner in which the literature of Europe has contrived to put out of sight our scientific obligations to the Mohammedans. … Injustice founded on religious rancor and national conceit cannot be perpetuated forever.”

This post has been edited by e-dog: Nov 12 2006, 04:57 AM

[Guest_librarian_*]

Posted by: Sanders Aug 1 2006, 03:34 AM

I don't mind telling everyone, I just mind getting banned   (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)   .

As for everyone else, like I've always said, arguing religion is a moot point. Or as my 5 year old cousin would say, a "moo" point. I don't even know why I bother, actually I do, it stems from boredom, which is in severe excess around here.

I will say, honestly, that I am not informed enough on the subject to continue debating. Though, if you have to go to church for some reason and need a recommendation as to which anti-bacterial to use, I'm your gal.

Anti-bacterial??? (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Arguing about religion is "moo", discussing it isn't. I live in "pagan" Japan, this is not much of a stretch for me...

Don't stray far, we appreciate your input

[Guest_librarian_*]

Posted by: Sinewy Aug 1 2006, 03:57 AM

QUOTE (GreatMuslim10 @ Aug 1 2006, 02:26 AM)
Do you believe he had anything to do with 9/11, like with with the help of the American government? 

He was both used as patsy and exploited like Muhammad bin `Abdul Wahab. Both were formed by some type of intelligence agencies. Both had perverse interpretations of Islam. Both appeared as literalists.

If both were legitimate in their cause, then why didn't they not oppose their own rulers? Answer is found through the misinterpretation of hadith, particularily the hadith of corrupt rulers:

"He who sees from his ruler something he dislikes, let him be patient with him, for he who splits away from the Jamaa’ah by a handspan and then dies, dies a death of Jaahiliyyah" and in a narration, "then he has thrown off the yoke of Islam from his neck." Hadith - Al-Bukhari and Muslim, and other narration by at-Tirmidhee (no. 2867) and Ahmad (4/130).

Also, their response is evasive as they want to go to the heart of corruption of Muslim lands, and that being America, is bullsh*t to me.

This post has been edited by e-dog: Nov 12 2006, 04:59 AM

[Guest_librarian_*]

Posted by: DayAfterTomorrow Aug 1 2006, 04:08 AM

I don't mind telling everyone, I just mind getting banned   (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)   .

As for everyone else, like I've always said, arguing religion is a moot point. Or as my 5 year old cousin would say, a "moo" point. I don't even know why I bother, actually I do, it stems from boredom, which is in severe excess around here.

I will say, honestly, that I am not informed enough on the subject to continue debating. Though, if you have to go to church for some reason and need a recommendation as to which anti-bacterial to use, I'm your gal.

Anti-bacterial???  (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)

Arguing about religion is "moo", discussing it isn't. I live in "pagan" Japan, this is not much of a stretch for me...

Don't stray far, we appreciate your input (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif)

Anti-bacterial is VERY important when being forced to attend church. I'm surprised I haven't contracted some formidable disease from the hand-shaking and hugging and complete invasion of my personal space. <_<

I am reading several books on the two religions, and this discussion progresses faster than I can read, so my input may be limited at "moo"ing at things for the time being. Or I may just interject stuff to play devil's advocate.

Why, may I ask, do you live in Japan? Just curious. How old is everyone around here anyway? I never can tell.

[Guest_librarian_*]

Posted by: Sanders Aug 1 2006, 04:18 AM

I am reading several books on the two religions, and this discussion progresses faster than I can read, so my input may be limited at "moo"ing at things for the time being. Or I may just interject stuff to play devil's advocate.

Why, may I ask, do you live in Japan? Just curious. How old is everyone around here anyway? I never can tell. 

Faster? (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) I was hopin' to get to the good parts soon - When everyone starts invading everyone else...

I always felt just a little out of place in America, and by a fluke I started studying Japanese about 15 years ago. I came for a visit and got a work offer, and stayed for a year. I went home after that but people started calling me to fly over and work again. After several years the trips got so frequent and I was so tired of flying back and forth that I just moved here. That was about 5 years ago. I don't recommend it, it's quite a culture shock. You start getting serious cravings for real Mexican food... people are nice though. BTW I'm 49.

[Guest_librarian_*]

Posted by: Daniels Aug 1 2006, 04:23 AM

Answer is found through the misinterpretation of hadith, particularily the hadith of corrupt rulers:

Definition:

"Hadith" means "Tradition" or a saying that is attributed to Mahammad. They form something like an unofficial Koran.

Many hadiths are false and misleading.

A few are true.

Discerning the true from the false is as hard for an Islamic average Joe as it is for a US average Joe to understand 9/11.

The hadiths are used in a similar way as false flag ops and the mainstream media to control unsophisticated people.

[Guest_librarian_*]

Posted by: pr0mythius Aug 1 2006, 04:39 AM

Listen, this is kind of getting old. Allah means God in Arabic. So God is God. Allah is Allah. Jehovah is Jehovah. They all mean the same thing in English. God. So God is Allah, Jehovah, Yahweh, Elohim, and etc. They're different languages, but same meanings. You believe that God sent His son to die for our sins, but we don't. God does mention Jesus's crucifying in the Qur'an, but only to say it never happened to him. We have different conceptions and beliefs about God, but it is still the same Supreme Being. Don't you believe that your god and the god of the Jews are the same? Don't you hold different beliefs about Him, though? That is the same with us Muslims.

If my God loves the Jews and your God hates them, then obviously they are not the same God. Allah can mean God all it wants to, but when it comes right down to it, when you look at their characteristics, their ideas, their actions, their consequences, they are two completely different Gods. And this is fundamentally where this huge religious conflict occurs.

Both Christianity and Islam are monotheistic. So if my God loves Jews and your hates them, and there can only be one God, one of us is wrong. My God created the nation of Israel through Isaac. Yours used Ishmael.

I'm by no means trying to be disrespectful to your beliefs, and I believe you did post some excellent things that I have learned from. I am simply saying we have arrived at the core of this religious conflict.

pr0mythius, as far as Sodom and Gomorrah goes, God had to destroy that city because of the nephalim. Nephalim are the offspring of angels having intercourse with humans. I'm at work and don't have my Bible with me, but I'll post the verses when I get home, unless someone beats me to it. Therefore, people like Hercules in Greek Mythology could have really existed because of this interbreeding of sorts, so myths are perfectly plausible at times.

As for the sex part...the fun stuff (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) ...the Bible does not discourage sex, especially with your spouse. Christians who are being legalistic take that entirely out of context. Sex, in addition to being used for procreation, was designed for humans as a means of pleasure when you are married to your right man/right woman. So if you are married, God wants you to do it (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) . Now, as for having sex when not married, God has a problem with that, but that is no greater of a sin than lying and gossiping is. All sins are equal. Now, if you would like to here a hilarious story about how I was really humiliated by my boyfriends parents who are STRICTLY RELIGIOUS, then PM me. The Bible never said you have to be babtised, but for God's sake, don't tell a babtist that.

When I go to church with my boyfriend's family I swear I take antibacterial because everyone in that church will hug you and shake your hand and stand in your personal space, to the point that you feel like you need a shower by the time you get done. I hate going to church.

Like I said, I'm at work, but if anyone needs me, or wants to talk about whatever (I'm bored, trust me), either PM me, email me, or send me a message on myspace at www.myspace.com/imabiggoober

ok playing catch up again.

you are absolutely right .. i've also found this to be the reason for its destruction. but not as some mystical act of God(big G) but rather an attack from god(little g). yep the "angels" were mating with humans and this pissed "god" off. and as i recall "god" was actually annoyed by the noise of his creation and was tired of them and this was one instance when he was dealing with that irritation. much like the "great flood" in which "god" saved a handful of people to start things over to hopefully get it right. and "god" did so not because the world was wicked ... he just didnt like how things turned out .. so he smashed the clay .. so to speak to start over a bit. (notice the frequent use of the little g god)

The summary that follows is provided as an indicator of the glory of Islam in its Golden and how it went on to influence Europe. It was written by George Townshend who was summarizing some chapters of John William Draper’s “The Intellectual Development of Europe” 1853. Every student of religion can benefit greatly by this knowledge.

yes .. all understood .. they were a very intellectual group of people. so is this to say that in matters of religion these people's word should be taken more as truth than the others? i can see the arguement for that, which is why i bring it up. but as they say .. there is a fine line between genius .. and insanity.

I will say, honestly, that I am not informed enough on the subject to continue debating. Though, if you have to go to church for some reason and need a recommendation as to which anti-bacterial to use, I'm your gal.

anti-bacteria soap weakens the immune system. be dirty .. its not bad. i shower on average about once every 3 days. basically when i feel its needed. and use PURE SOAP .. not that oil of olay type crap thats crammed with chemicals. oh and btw .. most shampoo contains human blood. i kid you not. but yea .. i only shower about every 3 days and i only get sick about once a year and it never lasts more than 2 or 3 days.

Anti-bacterial is VERY important when being forced to attend church. I'm surprised I haven't contracted some formidable disease from the hand-shaking and hugging and complete invasion of my personal space.

i agree .. this reminds me of one of my favorite shirts. has this cartoon like guy on the front smiling all big and it says "Wash your hands after touching christians."[laughing] so to anyone that offends .. but yea .. just reminded me of that.

Do you believe he had anything to do with 9/11, like with with the help of the American government?

none whatsoever

I always felt just a little out of place in America, and by a fluke I started studying Japanese about 15 years ago. I came for a visit and got a work offer, and stayed for a year. I went home after that but people started calling me to fly over and work again. After several years the trips got so frequent and I was so tired of flying back and forth that I just moved here. That was about 5 years ago. I don't recommend it, it's quite a culture shock. You start getting serious cravings for real Mexican food... people are nice though. BTW I'm 49. 

i totally feel the same way .. altho i'm still in america ... and in need of such a culture shock. btw i'm 24. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

[Guest_librarian_*]

Posted by: Daniels Aug 1 2006, 05:24 AM

The summary that follows is provided as an indicator of the glory of Islam in its Golden and how it went on to influence Europe. It was written by George Townshend who was summarizing some chapters of John William Draper’s “The Intellectual Development of Europe” 1853. Every student of religion can benefit greatly by this knowledge.

yes .. all understood .. they were a very intellectual group of people. so is this to say that in matters of religion these people's word should be taken more as truth than the others? i can see the arguement for that, which is why i bring it up. but as they say .. there is a fine line between genius .. and insanity.

Hell no pr0mythius mah man.

I guess I'm trying to indicate that, apart from credit where its due, these people at one time had "the Force" (to use Star Wars language).

So powerful was its influence that even without its associated religion it caused the rebirth of scientific inquiry that we know as the Renaissance.

No I certainly don't want you to take their word over any other.

It was a bunch of fanatical Muslims who butchered 20,000 early Baha'is in Persia, shot our Prophet-Herald, the Bab, with a regiment of 750 rifles in 1850 and imprisoned, tortured and exiled our Founder, Baha'u'llah, to a filthy, disease infested backwater. The only thing that saved Baha'u'llah from joining the 20,000 others was the Russian ambassador who threatend great retribution on Persia if He was harmed.

That's why the Baha'i world center is in Israel. We have no business with the Israelis but during the 1800s Akka was a fortified penal colony of the Ottoman empire and Baha'u'llah was exiled there. [ It says in the Bible that "I will ...give the valley of Achor for a door of hope ...(King James Bible, Hosea 2:15 ) ]

So I most certainly don't think that present day Muslims have any spiritual advantage over any other religious group. They follow a divine Prophet, like the Christians. Their people, like the Christians, have done some horrendous, and some heroic, things over time.

[Guest_librarian_*]

Posted by: pr0mythius Aug 1 2006, 06:06 AM


ahh yes .. the radicals turned to the dark side. and yes i would say that the early day arabs were very influential. most progression through the ages was usually copies of past policies and ways taken and spun with just a little something new. but as well there has always been a somewhat collective consciousness throughout the world at different times of history. such as darwin studying evolution .. there were several other people around the world at the same time that were studying the same thing, yet they had no connection to each other. this continues today. people everywhere have many great ideas about how a change in society should be implimented .. yet they never cross paths.

intellegence is a common tool used by all that are fortunate enough to posses it. as they say .. great minds think alike. people observe the happenings around them .. of present and past then logically come to conclusions of the futures.

these are esential things that have been programmed in our DNA .. these abilities of forsight. when the scriptures of any holy book say as if the words of God "i will bring you a door of hope." i feel is really saying in leahmans terms "someone will eventually figure it out."

This post has been edited by e-dog: Nov 12 2006, 05:06 AM

[Guest_librarian_*]

Posted by: DayAfterTomorrow Aug 1 2006, 03:32 PM

Listen, this is kind of getting old. Allah means God in Arabic. So God is God. Allah is Allah. Jehovah is Jehovah. They all mean the same thing in English. God. So God is Allah, Jehovah, Yahweh, Elohim, and etc. They're different languages, but same meanings. You believe that God sent His son to die for our sins, but we don't. God does mention Jesus's crucifying in the Qur'an, but only to say it never happened to him. We have different conceptions and beliefs about God, but it is still the same Supreme Being. Don't you believe that your god and the god of the Jews are the same? Don't you hold different beliefs about Him, though? That is the same with us Muslims.

If my God loves the Jews and your God hates them, then obviously they are not the same God. Allah can mean God all it wants to, but when it comes right down to it, when you look at their characteristics, their ideas, their actions, their consequences, they are two completely different Gods. And this is fundamentally where this huge religious conflict occurs.

Both Christianity and Islam are monotheistic. So if my God loves Jews and your hates them, and there can only be one God, one of us is wrong. My God created the nation of Israel through Isaac. Yours used Ishmael.

I'm by no means trying to be disrespectful to your beliefs, and I believe you did post some excellent things that I have learned from. I am simply saying we have arrived at the core of this religious conflict.

pr0mythius, as far as Sodom and Gomorrah goes, God had to destroy that city because of the nephalim. Nephalim are the offspring of angels having intercourse with humans. I'm at work and don't have my Bible with me, but I'll post the verses when I get home, unless someone beats me to it. Therefore, people like Hercules in Greek Mythology could have really existed because of this interbreeding of sorts, so myths are perfectly plausible at times.

As for the sex part...the fun stuff ...the Bible does not discourage sex, especially with your spouse. Christians who are being legalistic take that entirely out of context. Sex, in addition to being used for procreation, was designed for humans as a means of pleasure when you are married to your right man/right woman. So if you are married, God wants you to do it . Now, as for having sex when not married, God has a problem with that, but that is no greater of a sin than lying and gossiping is. All sins are equal. Now, if you would like to here a hilarious story about how I was really humiliated by my boyfriends parents who are STRICTLY RELIGIOUS, then PM me. The Bible never said you have to be babtised, but for God's sake, don't tell a babtist that.

When I go to church with my boyfriend's family I swear I take antibacterial because everyone in that church will hug you and shake your hand and stand in your personal space, to the point that you feel like you need a shower by the time you get done. I hate going to church.

Like I said, I'm at work, but if anyone needs me, or wants to talk about whatever (I'm bored, trust me), either PM me, email me, or send me a message on myspace at www.myspace.com/imabiggoober

ok playing catch up again.

you are absolutely right .. i've also found this to be the reason for its destruction. but not as some mystical act of God(big G) but rather an attack from god(little g). yep the "angels" were mating with humans and this pissed "god" off. and as i recall "god" was actually annoyed by the noise of his creation and was tired of them and this was one instance when he was dealing with that irritation. much like the "great flood" in which "god" saved a handful of people to start things over to hopefully get it right. and "god" did so not because the world was wicked ... he just didnt like how things turned out .. so he smashed the clay .. so to speak to start over a bit. (notice the frequent use of the little g god)

The summary that follows is provided as an indicator of the glory of Islam in its Golden and how it went on to influence Europe. It was written by George Townshend who was summarizing some chapters of John William Draper’s “The Intellectual Development of Europe” 1853. Every student of religion can benefit greatly by this knowledge.

yes .. all understood .. they were a very intellectual group of people. so is this to say that in matters of religion these people's word should be taken more as truth than the others? i can see the arguement for that, which is why i bring it up. but as they say .. there is a fine line between genius .. and insanity.

I will say, honestly, that I am not informed enough on the subject to continue debating. Though, if you have to go to church for some reason and need a recommendation as to which anti-bacterial to use, I'm your gal.

anti-bacteria soap weakens the immune system. be dirty .. its not bad. i shower on average about once every 3 days. basically when i feel its needed. and use PURE SOAP .. not that oil of olay type crap thats crammed with chemicals. oh and btw .. most shampoo contains human blood. i kid you not. but yea .. i only shower about every 3 days and i only get sick about once a year and it never lasts more than 2 or 3 days.

Anti-bacterial is VERY important when being forced to attend church. I'm surprised I haven't contracted some formidable disease from the hand-shaking and hugging and complete invasion of my personal space.

i agree .. this reminds me of one of my favorite shirts. has this cartoon like guy on the front smiling all big and it says "Wash your hands after touching christians."[laughing] so to anyone that offends .. but yea .. just reminded me of that.

Do you believe he had anything to do with 9/11, like with with the help of the American government?

none whatsoever

I always felt just a little out of place in America, and by a fluke I started studying Japanese about 15 years ago. I came for a visit and got a work offer, and stayed for a year. I went home after that but people started calling me to fly over and work again. After several years the trips got so frequent and I was so tired of flying back and forth that I just moved here. That was about 5 years ago. I don't recommend it, it's quite a culture shock. You start getting serious cravings for real Mexican food... people are nice though. BTW I'm 49. 

i totally feel the same way .. altho i'm still in america ... and in need of such a culture shock. btw i'm 24. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/whistle.gif)

I would like everyone to note that he said I am absolutely right about something...for once (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/biggrin.gif) .

In addition to the whole world being evil, God wiped out everyone except Noah's family in the flood so that there would be no dispute about the lineage of Jesus. Noah's son, Shem, was responsible for the Semitic tribe, which is where we get anti-semitic from. If you trace than blood line, you eventually end up with Jesus.

Actually, anti-bacterial soap does not weaken the immune system, and that is a common misconception. The bacteria actually mutate around the anti-bacterial, so it is not you who is becoming immune to the anti-bacterial, it is the bacteria that is. Then you are left with no anti-bacterial for the new mutation, which is why you get sick. It is not your immune system's fault, it is the overuse of anti-bacterial in unnecesarry intances, like in the shower, as you said with the oil of olay crap.

No, no, Christian people scare me...and that's sad, since I am one. I hate legalism. For instance, there was this guy at church one time with a bumper sticker that said, "You can't be Christian and be pro-choice." I'm a Christian and pro-choice, so he's just a pompous self-righteous @ss. But anti-bacterial is strong protection against Christian-born plagues that manifest themselves throughout pot-luck dinners, babtisms, gospel music, and vacation Bible schools across the nation. Oh, and I also figured out why old people in church have such bad joint problems...it's from the standing up, singing, sitting down, praying, standing up singing, sitting down, listening, standing up, praying routine.

Yay, I found someone who was born in my generation (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) ! No offense, Sanders and Daniels, you are wonderful human beings too.

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/cheers.gif)

Kelly

[Guest_librarian_*]

Posted by: Sinewy Aug 1 2006, 05:43 PM

Answer is found through the misinterpretation of hadith, particularily the hadith of corrupt rulers:

Definition:

"Hadith" means "Tradition" or a saying that is attributed to Mahammad. They form something like an unofficial Koran.

Many hadiths are false and misleading.

A few are true.

Discerning the true from the false is as hard for an Islamic average Joe as it is for a US average Joe to understand 9/11.

The hadiths are used in a similar way as false flag ops and the mainstream media to control unsophisticated people.

`Ilm al hadith is a complicated system. I would go into the technicalities if anyone wishes.

There are many hadith believed to be weak, but for the Muslims, there are many hadith to be held credible, NOT just a few. Sahih Bukhari and Sahih Muslim are the collection of hadith which are held the most trustworthy and reliable of all the hadith for the Sunni Muslims. Their authenticity are hardly questioned due to the rigorous standards of verification used by the two authors of the works, Imam Bukhari and Imam Muslim. This does not exclude hadith which are also held as strong and credible by Muslims from other collection of works.

[Guest_librarian_*]

Posted by: Sanders Aug 1 2006, 06:09 PM


Daniels, you have a way of explaining things - I FINALLY understand the concept of the Hadiths.

DAT, you're cracking me up. Stop it! I'm laughing so hard about the Christian kudees thing it hurts ! (My Church was the same way !!! We even had a blue-grass band, 0ur Ministor played banjo)

Sinewy and GM10, I'm reading and rereading everything you write - us Christians never get the chance to understand what Islam is about, to hear it from the horse's mouth.

My intent was simply to try and generalize the history of the 3 religions. So far, we haven't done too well as far as the history goes, but we've struck to the heart of the issue. Didn't take long, and were all still here, and not fighting. To me that says something. It should be obvious that we are all just people. Sinewy is a Muslim. Does that mean he's a terrorist? Of course not. Do I, as an American Christian, support the occupation of Iraq? Hell no. Are there Americans that do? Yes. Are there Muslims that hate America? Yes. Do they have good reason? Yes. Are our differences being magnified to promote violence in the world? YES !!! That is the point. That is why I wanted to talk about what our different religions really say. Not much, nothing profound, just talk. If there are any Jewish lurkers out there, I want you HERE. I want to hear your viewpoint as well. We are all victims, we are all being played against each other.

I'm ready to talk about the kingdoms of David and Solomon. Those were the years that the Jewish religion really came into fruition. Those were the kingdoms that set the stage for everything that came after.

This post has been edited by e-dog: Nov 12 2006, 05:11 AM

[Guest_librarian_*]

Posted by: DayAfterTomorrow Aug 1 2006, 08:09 PM

Daniels, you have a way of explaining things - I FINALLY understand the concept of the Hadiths.

DAT, you're cracking me up.  Stop it!  I'm laughing so hard about the Christian kudees thing it hurts !  (My Church was the same way !!!  We even had a blue-grass band, 0ur Ministor played banjo)

Sinewy and GM10, I'm reading and  rereading everything you write - us Christians never get the chance to understand what Islam is about, to hear it from the horse's mouth.

My intent was simply to try and generalize the history of the 3 religions.  So far, we haven't done too well as far as the history goes, but we've struck to the heart of the issue.  Didn't take long, and were all still here, and not fighting.  To me that says something. It should be obvious that we are all just people.  Sinewy is a Muslim.  Does that mean he's  a terrorist?  Of course not.  Do I, as an American Christian, support the occupation of Iraq?  Hell no.  Are there Americans that do?  Yes.  Are there Muslims that hate America?  Yes.  Do they have good reason?  Yes.  Are our differences being magnified to promote violence in the world?  YES !!!    That is the point.  That is why I wanted to talk about what our different religions really say.  Not much, nothing profound, just talk.  If there are any Jewish lurkers out there, I want you HERE.  I want to hear your viewpoint as well.  We are all victims, we are all being played against each other. 

I'm ready to talk about the kingdoms of David and Solomon.  Those were the years that the Jewish religion really came into fruition.  Those were the kingdoms that set the stage for everything that came after.

Man, banjos are freakin' hot. So is anti-bacterial. (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/wink.gif) I just sit there and glare are the wall in church, so people think I'm possessed and angry, and then they pray for me in the comfort of their own homes and thank God that I am not their child. Frankly, I thank God I am not their child.

When I get time this week, I will start writing what I have found out in regards to the Bible. This is an important topic and we need to keep it going in a civilized manner, unless I have offended someone in my anti-bacterial rantings. I promise I will contribute something of substance soon.

Kelly

[Guest_librarian_*]

Posted by: GreatMuslim10 Aug 1 2006, 10:13 PM

So I most certainly don't think that present day Muslims have any spiritual advantage over any other religious group. They follow a divine Prophet, like the Christians. Their people, like the Christians, have done some horrendous, and some heroic, things over time. 

We don't follow a divine prophet. We follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and he is nothing more than a messenger of God.

[Guest_librarian_*]

Posted by: Daniels Aug 2 2006, 12:33 AM

We don't follow a divine prophet.  We follow the Prophet Muhammad (peace be upon him) and he is nothing more than a messenger of God.

Good point GreatMuslim10.

I'm trying to use a language that all will readily relate to.

In my religion we refer to the Holy Prophets of God as "Manifestations of God", or "Manifestations". Problem is, unless there are other Baha'is on this board, no-one but me would know what that means.

Baha'is view all creation as occupying different "kingdoms".

The mineral kingdom has the power of cohesion.
The plant kingdom includes the power of the mineral but adds the power of augmentation -- growth.
The animal kingdom includes the powers of those kingdoms below it and adds the power of the senses.
The human kingdom has the power of cohesion, growth, the senses and adds the power of the intellect -- which gives us our great inventions and arts.
The next Kingdom is that of the holy Manifestations. We cannot know Their power because They occupy a Kingdom above us. Just as the plant cannot comprehend the power of the animal, the Manifestations of God are exalted beyond our comprehension.

To a Baha'i, Adam, Noah, Moses, Krishna, Christ, Buddha, Muhammad, the Bab, Baha'u'llah, all belong to that Plane of existence. All are exalted, holy, venerated and cherished for Their great sacrifices in bringing to humankind the life-giving teachings of God.

There is an interesting pattern to these Holy Manifestations.

If we look closely we can see that the Jews accept Adam, and Noah (more or less) but refuse to acknowledge Christ.

Christians accept Moses, Noah and Adam (again, more or less) but refuse to acknowledge Muhammad.

The Muslims accept Christ, Moses, Noah and Adam but refuse to accept the Bab and Baha'u'llah -- the Manifestations of the Baha'i Faith. In fact some fanatical ones executed the Bab, imprisoned Baha'u'llah, butchered over 20,000 gentle Baha'is and to this day, in Iran at least, continue to persecute the Baha'is (a couple of hundred Baha'is were killed in the 1980s for being Baha'is).

Interesting how the cycles of history operate.

[Guest_librarian_*]

Posted by: Daniels Aug 2 2006, 01:12 AM

Yay, I found someone who was born in my generation (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif)   ! No offense, Sanders and Daniels, you are wonderful human beings too.

No offense taken.

I'm just as delighted when I recognize someone on this board of my own vintage. No offense to you young-uns.

You younsters are the engine room of the ship of humanity. We older rudders play our part too though we sometimes look back with fondness to when we were the engines.

And I am so very pleased that there are dynamic young people like you Kelly, Pr0mythius, Bahreem, etc. who are sane, sensible and keen truthers.

Go get 'em you young ones.

[Guest_librarian_*]

Posted by: water_bender Aug 2 2006, 01:52 AM

pr0mythius, as far as Sodom and Gomorrah goes, God had to destroy that city because of the nephalim. Nephalim are the offspring of angels having intercourse with humans. I'm at work and don't have my Bible with me, but I'll post the verses when I get home, unless someone beats me to it. Therefore, people like Hercules in Greek Mythology could have really existed because of this interbreeding of sorts, so myths are perfectly plausible at times.

this is incorrect. sodom and gomorrah were destroyed for thier severe imorality. for thier perversion. lot was allowed to escape so long as he didnt look back... the flood was the intended destruction of the nephalim. though it didnt work 100% some nephalim survived, as goliath is an example of such a person. you are right about the nephalim being half angel, they arose from the watchers. the watchers were a choir of angels sent to watch over and safe guard the humans. but they fell in love with the 'daughters of man' and procreated with them. (see some of us are part alien afterall (IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/tongue.gif) )

n Genesis 18, God informs Abraham that He plans to destroy the city of Sodom because of its gross immorality. Abraham pleads with God not to destroy Sodom, and God agrees that He would not destroy the city if there were 50 righteous people in it, then 45, then 30, then 20, or even 10 righteous people. The Lord's two angels only find one righteous person living in Sodom, Abraham's nephew Lot. Consequently, God follows through with His plans to destroy the city.