Would You Say He Is One Hell Of A Pilot? Options

[Ricochet]

Recovery pics, not much of the plane though mostly ARMED coast guard.
http://eyeball-series.org/lift-1549/lift-1549.htm





Adding the US Coast Guard video of crash.
http://b1ff.org/2009/01/17/1398/coast-guar...-landingrescue/

This post has been edited by Ricochet: Jan 19 2009, 01:19 PM

[Thous]

I know people are claiming that the plane crashed do to Canadian Geese (damn Canadians!), but I heard that the plane was experiencing similar issues, just weeks before, and it was happening without the goose issue. Did anyone else hear something similar?

[Ricochet]

I know people are claiming that the plane crashed do to Canadian Geese (damn Canadians!), but I heard that the plane was experiencing similar issues, just weeks before, and it was happening without the goose issue. Did anyone else hear something similar?

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/2...sh-engine-fault


p.s. the birds had the right of way. Damn Americans.

[Thous]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/jan/2...sh-engine-fault

Thanks!

p.s. the birds had the right of way. Damn Americans.

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/smile.gif)

[rob balsamo]

Pictures of the Salvage

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[lunk]

I had a friend who got their truck stuck in the mud below high tide.
The truck became totally submerged in salt water.
Even though they towed it out the next day,
and replaced all the electrical,
it never worked right again.

I wonder what will happen to this plane.

[amazed!]

This plane will be totalled.

But thanks for the pictures Rob. It's amazing how little damage there was to the airframe. Sully did a great job, downwind landing.

It shows how strong the pressure vessel is.

[dMz]

It shows how strong the pressure vessel is.

Has anyone heard or know how deep the Hudson is there? (You gain 1 atmosphere of pressure or ~ 14.7 psi [101.325 KPa] for each 33 feet [10 m] of water depth.)

EDIT: Of course, with the passenger doors open/missing, the [water] pressure inside the fuselage would have equaled the water pressure inside. Submarines are another matter entirely.

[sb5walker]

I know people are claiming that the plane crashed do to Canadian Geese (damn Canadians!), but I heard that the plane was experiencing similar issues, just weeks before, and it was happening without the goose issue. Did anyone else hear something similar?

I'm not a pilot, so please forgive if these sources are not up to par. Mods can edit or delete if desired. I found the following interesting, and wanted to pass along:

http://www.dancewithshadows.com/aviation/a...red-to-inspect/

Airbus plane that landed in Hudson River had engines which FAA had earlier ordered to inspect
Friday, January 23, 2009, 6:41

It has been revealed that the United States Federal Aviation Administration (FAA) had ordered stringent inspection of the type of engines on the US Airways plane that splash-landed in New York’s Hudson River after a few of those engines were found to have a rare kind of stall problem known as “compression stall.”


The Federal Aviation Administration, the agency of the United States Department of Transportation that regulates and oversees all aspects of civil aviation in the US, had, on December 13, 2008, ordered inspections of the CFM56-5B series of engines since a small number of them had experienced compression stalls, the website cnn.com quoted Alison Duquette, a spokeswoman for the FAA, as saying.

The FAA, she added, had issued an “airworthiness directive” on December 13, 2008, mandating that the CFM56-5B engine series be inspected and that United States-based airlines had complied with the directive and all the CFM56-5B engines were inspected. And, “globally, this was addressed before the January 15, 2009, incident involving the US Airways plane,” according to Alison Duquette.

The FAA ordered United States-based airlines to conduct detailed inspections of the CFM56-5B series engines when both engines recorded temperatures above a certain threshold and required the removal of at least one of those engines. However, officials of the FAA declined to say whether the engine turbines of the US Airways Flight 1549 had undergone the required scrutiny.

In a statement, GE Aviation, which co-owns CFM International which makes the CFM56-5B engines, said that the FAA directive for heightened inspection of CFM56-5B engines was triggered by six incidents of compressor stalls in planes with those engines.

According to the FAA, compressor stalls “could prevent continued safe flight or landing.”

GE Aviation said that 12 of the CFM56-5B engines had temperatures above what is considered acceptable and that it was “exceedingly unlikely” that any of those engines were in the US Airways plane that went down in the Hudson River since “we had checked every single engine in the fleet.”

Six compressor stalls out of 43 million flight hours indicate that the engines are “more reliable than an elevator,” the statement from GE Aviation stressed.

A compressor stall happens when the airflow is momentarily cut off and, in serious cases, a compressor stall can cause a violent shuddering of the plane and a shutdown of the engine.

CNN says that, on January 13, 2009, two days before US Airways Flight 1549 landed in the Hudson River, the same plane – also named Flight 1549 and taking off from New York’s LaGuardia Airport to Charlotte, North Carolina, the United States – had encountered problems. Four passengers on that flight on January 13 had said that the crew told the passengers on the intercom that the plane was experiencing “compression stalls.”

Meanwhile, the United States National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) confirmed that there was an entry in the maintenance log of the plane that landed in the Hudson River that a compressor stall had occurred on January 13, 2009.

http://rgl.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_Guidance.../2009-01-01.pdf

DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION

Federal Aviation Administration

14 CFR Part 39

[Docket No. FAA-2008-1353; Directorate Identifier 2008-NE-46-AD; Amendment 39-15779;
AD 2009-01-01]

RIN 2120-AA64

Airworthiness Directives; CFM International, S. A. CFM56-5B Series Turbofan Engines

AGENCY: Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), DOT.

ACTION: Final rule; request for comments.

––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––––

SUMMARY: The FAA is adopting a new airworthiness directive (AD) for CFM International, S. A.
CFM56-5B series turbofan engines. This AD requires reviewing exhaust gas temperature (EGT)
monitoring records to determine EGT deterioration margin, and for airplanes where both engines
have greater than 80° centigrade © deterioration of EGT margin, borescope-inspecting the high-
pressure compressor (HPC) of both engines. This AD also requires removing from service any engine
that does not pass the borescope inspection, and if both engines pass, removing and replacing one of
the engines with an engine that has 80 °C or less deterioration of EGT margin. This AD also requires
continuous monitoring of EGT margin on engines in service, to prevent two engines on an airplane
from having greater than 80 °C of deterioration of EGT margin. This AD results from an Airbus
A321 airplane powered by CFM56-5B1/P turbofan engines experiencing HPC stalls during climb out
after takeoff. We are issuing this AD to prevent HPC stalls, which could prevent continued safe flight
or landing.

DATES: This AD becomes effective December 31, 2008.
We must receive any comments on this AD by March 2, 2009.

-----------------

SUPPLEMENTARY INFORMATION: On December 15, 2008, an Airbus A321 airplane powered
by CFM56-5B1/P turbofan engines experienced HPC stalls in both engines during climb out after
takeoff. The flight crew restored power to both engines by retarding the throttles to flight idle. The
crew continued the climb out phase of the flight, declared an emergency, and returned to the airport
without incident. This condition, if not corrected, could result in HPC stalls, which could prevent
continued safe flight or landing.

FAA's Determination and Requirements of This AD

The unsafe condition described previously is likely to exist or develop on other CFM
International, S. A. CFM56-5B series turbofan engines of the same type design. For that reason, we
are issuing this AD to prevent HPC stalls, which could prevent continued safe flight or landing. This
AD requires the following:
• Reviewing EGT monitoring records to determine EGT deterioration margin; and
• For airplanes where both engines have greater than 80 °C deterioration of EGT margin, doing the
following:
• Borescope-inspecting HPC stages 1, 3, 6, and 9 of both engines.
• Removing from service any engine that does not pass the borescope inspection; and
• If both engines pass the borescope inspection, then removing one of the engines from service and
replacing it with an engine that has 80 °C or less deterioration of EGT margin.

http://www.flightglobal.com/articles/2008/...5b-engines.html

DATE:23/12/08
SOURCE:Air Transport Intelligence

EASA issues emergency AD for certain CFM56-5B engines
By John Croft

Operators flying a small number of CFM56-5B turbofan engines will be required to replace one of the aircraft's two powerplants if both are shown to have an exhaust gas temperature (EGT) margin of less than 80 deg C, according to an emergency airworthiness directive (AD) issued by EASA today.
The action follows a 15 December incident in which a CFM56-5B-powered Airbus A321 experienced "stalls on both engines during the same flight," states EASA. "The event was caused by high pressure compressor (HPC) deterioration."
EGT margin refers to the buffer between an engine's normal operating EGT temperature and its maximum EGT, the temperature at which it must be overhauled or replaced. A higher EGT is an indication of the HPC wear that can cause a compressor stall.
CFM had attempted to address the problem with the release of new engine control unit (ECU) software, version 5BQ, in January 2007 which features "two degrees additional Variable Stator Vanes closure in the low power region to increase stall margin," according to the AD.
"The 5QB software introduction has reduced the frequency of stalls, however since April 2008, six different engines have experienced stalls at three different operators with the 5QB software," the AD continues.
EASA says the stalls on both engines during flight could cause dual in-flight engine shutdowns.
A CFM spokeswoman says about a dozen engines are covered by the AD, all with more than 14,000h operating life. She says the incidents involved a loss of thrust rather than a surge in the engines, adding that a new software version will be released for the affected engines late in January.
The emergency AD calls for operators to identify aircraft in which both engines have greater than 80 deg C EGT margin deterioration and to replace one of the engines with a powerplant featuring greater margin.

Regardless of the cause of the engine failure, that was a truly awesome feat of piloting.

This post has been edited by sb5walker: Jan 24 2009, 12:43 AM

[sb5walker]

http://www.edition.cnn.com/2009/US/01/23/h...gine/index.html

Flight 1549's missing engine pulled from Hudson River

Story Highlights
Missing engine recovered from Hudson, hauled to New Jersey riverbank
Video shows at least two passengers jump off plane's wings into chilly Hudson River
Single feather and evidence of "soft-body impact damage" found on plane
US Airways flight crash-landed in river after reportedly hitting flock of birds

(IMG:http://i2.cdn.turner.com/cnn/2009/US/01/23/hudson.plane.engine/art.engine.cnn.jpg)

NEW YORK (CNN) -- The missing engine from a US Airways jet that ditched in the Hudson River was recovered Friday, more than a week after the crash landing.

Icy conditions and strong currents hampered efforts to locate and raise the plane's left engine, which apparently tore from the Airbus A320 when it hit the water in an emergency landing January 15.

The engine was found Wednesday in about 50 feet of water. The divers who found it reported that it was in one piece, said New Jersey State Police Sgt. Stephen Jones.

A crane brought the engine up Friday afternoon as daylight began to fade. It was placed on a barge and hauled to the New Jersey side of the river, according to a spokeswoman for the U.S. Army Corps of Engineers, which was supervising the recovery.

After an initial examination at the site, the engine will be shipped with the plane's other engine to the manufacturer, where "the NTSB will supervise and direct a complete tear-down of each engine," NTSB spokesman Peter Knudson said.

The right engine was still attached to the plane when it was pulled from the Hudson last week.

It will be at least next week before any information from the initial examination is released, Knudson said.

Investigators said this week that they found a single feather and evidence of "soft-body impact damage" on the aircraft. The find reinforces the pilot's report that the plane was brought down by a flock of birds.

Pilot Chesley B. "Sully" Sullenberger, 58, told investigators that his aircraft struck birds, disabling both engines, about 90 seconds after takeoff from LaGuardia Airport in New York.

The feather, found on a flap track on the wing, was sent to identification experts at the Smithsonian Institution, the National Transportation Safety Board said.

Samples of what appears to be organic material found in the right engine and on the wings and fuselage have been sent to the U.S. Department of Agriculture.

Meanwhile, a pilot program involving "birdstrike avoidance" radar systems will be expanded to include LaGuardia, said a spokesman for the Port Authority of New York and New Jersey.

The Air Force has been using such systems at its bases for years, and last year the Port Authority -- which operates five metropolitan New York airports -- struck an agreement with the Air Force and the Federal Aviation Administration to install the bird-detecting system at John F. Kennedy International Airport.

In the wake of the US Airways crash-landing, that program will be expanded to include LaGuardia and Newark International airports within a few months, according to Pasquale DiFulco, spokesman for the Port Authority.

Newly released video captured seconds after the Airbus A320 ditched in the Hudson River showed passengers trying to flee the aircraft almost immediately after it settled in the water and began to float along the river current.

All 155 crew members and passengers on the plane survived the incident, which Gov. David Paterson dubbed a "miracle on the Hudson."

The video, which the Con Edison utility company released Thursday, first shows a long wake behind the plane before zooming in on the aircraft. Steam surrounds the plane as it floats with a slow counterclockwise twist.

An exit hatch opens on the plane's left side, and several people file out onto one of the plane's wings. Seconds later, an inflatable evacuation ramp extends from the opposite side of the plane.

Passengers run onto the plane's other wing as the aircraft floats off-screen for a few seconds. The camera jerks, and when the plane reappears, passengers can be seen at the bottom of the inflatable ramp.

Some passengers jump into the water, which was a chilly 41 degrees when the plane splashed down on the afternoon of January 15.

Within minutes, a ferry and other boats come into the picture and begin to take the people aboard.

The video came from a surveillance camera at Con Edison's 59th Street Station, a steam plant, spokesman Chris Olert said. A person manning the camera from inside the plant saw the plane hit the water and redirected the camera, Olert said.
CNN's Eliott C. McLaughlin, Mike Ahlers and Alona Rivord contributed to this report.

[dMz]

Correct me if I'm wrong here, but a single engine failure on a twin turbofan Boeing shouldn't necessarily lead to emergency river landings/"crashes." Those 4-fan B747 and B707s [as well as KC-135 tankers] are much more "redundant" too.

[sb5walker]

http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?Content...15-27367ff46700

Report: Engine Suffered Compressor Stall On Prior N106US Flight
Tue, 20 Jan '09

Passengers Heard Loud Bangs On Flight 1549 Two Days Before Hudson Ditching

The US Airways A320 that lost engine power and ditched in New York's Hudson River last week experienced engine anomalies on the same route two days prior to the January 15 incident, according to passengers.

CNN reports that two days before last Thursday's ditching in the Hudson River, passengers on the same route and flying onboard the very same aircraft -- N106US -- reported hearing a series of loud bangs.

Steve Jeffrey of Charlotte, NC told CNN he was flying in first class Tuesday when, about 20 minutes into the flight, "it sounded like the wing was just snapping off. The red lights started going on. A little pandemonium was going on.

"It seemed so loud, like luggage was hitting the side but times a thousand," he continued. "It startled everyone on the plane. The stewardesses started running around. They made an announcement that 'everyone heard the noise, we're going to turn around and head back to LaGuardia and check out what happened.'

"About 10 minutes later when we never made the turn, we kept going, that's when the pilot came on and explained ... the air didn't get to the engine and it stalled the engine out, which he said doesn't happen all the time but it's not abnormal."

Like many things in life, this was less traumatic to passengers who knew what was going on. Another passenger, John Hodock, e-mailed CNN to educate the news service about what likely happened.

"About 20 minutes after take-off, the plane had a series of compressor stalls on the right engine," Hodock wrote, according to the network. "There were several very loud bangs and fire coming out of the engine. The pilot at first told us that we were going to make an emergency landing, but after about five minutes, continued the flight to Charlotte."

In a later interview, Hodock said the pilot, "...came back on and said it was a stalled compressor and they were going to continue to Charlotte."

As the term implies, a compressor stall occurs when airflow over the multiple turbine vanes inside a jet engine is disturbed. In many cases, the malady hardly registers on engine instruments... though in more dramatic cases, loud bangs are heard and flames may even shoot out the back of the engine, as the engine's fuel-to-air mixture goes suddenly over-rich. A complete engine flameout may also occur, requiring an inflight restart.

What possible relation the incident reported January 13 had with Flight 1549 two days later remains to be seen... though given the pilots in Thursday's incident have already stated multiple bird strikes led to the dual engine failure, it seems unlikely at this point the two are related in any meaningful fashion.

Then again... that's what NTSB investigations are for, and this one has just begun.

[albertchampion]

i think you missed my point.

don't forget, i initiated this thread heralding the performance of this usair crew.

whatever was the cause, a dead stick landing in the hudson river, with a crew that saved[and accounted for] all souls on 1549 was the zenith of piloting and captaincy skills.

as i said, i didn't want to be a killjoy. but usair is in bankruptcy. and i have recollections of how other airlines performed during their bankruptcy.

i cited a few. frank lorenzo's continental. ual after it took over panam's pacific routes. aa after it took over panam's south american routes.

in each of these instances, my life was jeopardized by mismanagement.

one of my favorite stories involves a continental flight that was intended to depart LGA nonstop for IAH.

the bird was a 727.

i was sitting in first class, bulkhead, aisle.

it was winter.

everyone was on board. the craft was closed. but, we didn't move off the gate.

and we sat there.

finally, the captain came on the intercom and told us that we were overgross....that fuel was going to have to be removed from the craft.

so we waited for that pumping to occur. but it didn't happen with any rapidity.

eventually, the captain came on the intercom and advised us that LGA had a rule that an aircraft could only stay on a gate for so long, that we had exceeded that time, so the craft was going to have to be pushed back while we awaited the pumping out of excess fuel.

i suspected that this was bullshit. that what had happened was that continental's credit had been maxed out, and that it couldn't afford a full fueling.

i wanted off the plane. no way the flight crew said.

so, we captives tolerated the adventure.

we were pushed off the gate. awaiting the defueling.

after an hour, that occurred.

now, we were certain that we were going to be suitable for launching.

apparently not. the captain came on the intercom to tell us that we could not depart unless we were signed off from a gate...so we would have to go back to a gate. unfortunately, all were occupied.

finally, we got back to a gate. but there seemed to be new problems. which could not be accessed from the jetway. that door remained closed. probably because continental hypothesized we would all escape via that door. so the rear entry to the 727 was opened.

gate agents, etc entered via this access.

and we continued to sit on the gate.

there was a rock and roll group in this first class compartment. motley crue. they tired of this nonsense. and at some point, got up and ran back and down the rear stairs. sigh. they were arrested. and this added to our departure delay.

eventually we departed LGA.

about an hour after departure, this bird began to descend. i recall that i was the only one to catch this. i went up towards the flight deck to question a flight attendant.

she told me that too much fuel had been pumped out at LGA. that there wasn't enough left to make it to IAH. so we were going to land at IAD to add fuel.

which we did.

now, one would think that we would have had enough fuel to make it to IAH.

BUT NO. an hour out of houston, this bird started another descent. we landed at little rock, ark. so as to take on more fuel. but, the ground support services were in bed. no commercial aircraft appeared at that hour.

so, we sat around for 3 hours.

it was the flight from hell. ordinarily, LGA-IAH is a 4 hour flight. in this instance, i think it became a 20 hour flight.

what was governing the fueling of the aircraft? continental's credit situation.

now, this experience may have no bearing on usair 1549. still, i have a very jaundiced opinion of commercial airline companies in bankruptcy.

and of course, you are correct, rob, that we should wait for the ntsb report. but, if you have been reading anything that i have reported about the ntsb, it is an entity not deserving of any support. rarely is it to be believed.

reportedly, the ntsb has told us that at least one engine was the victim of a compressor stall within days of this accident. and this was written up.

i close this way...chesley and his crew performed magnificently. i said this at the get go.

on the other hand, was something missed in preflight?

it is entirely possible that both engines collided with birds simultaneously.

but there is something gnawing at me about an airline company in bankruptcy and its maintenance standards.