Plane Crash In New York State, 9/11 victim's wife aboard.
Feb 13 2009, 08:43 AM
Group: Valued Member
Joined: 29-September 07
From: Hampshire, UK.
Member No.: 2,274
I am not about to hypothesise but others here may be able to fill in any blanks:
Plane crash in NY state kills 49 - BBC
Feb 13 2009, 04:54 PM
Group: Active Forum Pilot
Joined: 25-April 08
Member No.: 3,225
Final communications of flight 3407: audio, transcript
Posted: February 13, 2009, 8:08 AM by Shane Dingman
The following is a transcript of this audio recording of communications between the air traffic control tower and Continental Connection flight 3407 before it crashed Thursday evening into a house near Buffalo, N.Y.
“COLGAN 3407 DESCEND AND MAINTAIN 6,000.
COLGAN 3407 DESCEND AND MAINTAIN 5,000.
5,000, COLGAN 3407.
COLGAN 3407 DESCEND AND MAINTAIN 4,000... COLGAN 3407 DESCEND AND MAINTAIN 2,300...
COLGAN 3407 TURN LEFT HEADING 330.
US TURNING 330, COLGAN 3407.
3407 — 3 MILES FROM COMP TURN AND ONE HEADING T60 MAINTAIN 2,300 TILL STATUS LOCALIZING — PRESSURE ONLY 23.
WITH 260 2,300 TILL ESTABLISH AND CLEAR TO (INAUDIBLE) REPORT COLGAN 3407.
COLGAN 3407, CONTACT 120.5 — HAVE A GOOD NIGHT.
COLGAN 3407, APPROACH.
COLGAN 3407, BUFFALO.
COLGAN 3407, NOW APPROACH.
Editor's note: At this point the air traffic controller has lost contact with flight 3407, and attempts to contact another flight to see if it can re-establish visual contact:
DELTA 1998: LOOK OUT YOUR RIGHT SIDE ABOUT FIVE MILES FOR A DASH-8. SHOULD BE 2,300. YOU SEE ANYTHING THERE?
UHH, NEGATIVE, DELTA 1998 — WE’RE JUST IN THE BOTTOMS AND NOTHING ON THE T-CASTS.
COLGAN 3407 BUFFALO.
COLGAN 3407 BUFFALO, IT’S ARHIDEY HERE.
STANDBY — THERE’S SOME GROUND COMMUNICATION — YOU NEED TO TALK TO SOMEBODY AT LEAST 5 MILES NORTHEAST. ‘K — POSSIBLY CLARENCE? THAT AREA RIGHT IN
THERE. ACRINARIA... EITHER STATE POLICE OR SHERIFF’S DEPARTMENT. YOU NEED TO FIND IF ANYTHING IS ON THE GROUND. THIS AIRCRAFT WAS 5 MILES OUT — AND ALL OF A SUDDEN WE HAVE NO RESPONSE FROM THAT AIRCRAFT.
ALL I CAN TELL YOU IS THAT THE AIRCRAFT IS OVER THE MARKER — AND WE’RE NOT TALKING TO HIM NOW.
THIS IS (INAUDIBLE)... WE’RE GOING TO HAVE TO GET RIGHT BACK TO YOU, SIR. APPARENTLY WE HAVE AN EMERGENCY AND I’LL GET BACK AS SOON AS I CAN.
OK — FELLOW AIRCRAFT — THIS FREQUENCY... WE DID HAVE A DASH-8 OVER THE MARKER THAT DIDN’T MAKE THE AIRPORT. HE APPEARS TO BE ABOUT FIVE MILES AWAY FROM
THE AIRPORT. DELTA 1998 — I’M GOING TO BRING IN SURROUNDING APPROACH, UM, IF YOU COULD JUST GIVE ME A HIGHER-UP, WHEN YOU GET TO 2,300 AND UH, IF YOU
HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH THE LOCALIZER OR ANYTHING — LET ME KNOW. HOWEVER, WE’RE SHOWING IT ALL IN THE GRAIN HERE.
HEY — THIS IS 1452. THANKS FOR YOUR HELP. I APPRECIATE IT. CONTACT 120.5.
POWER TO CACTUS: DID YOU FIND COLGAN?
UMMMM, UNFORTUNATELY HE SAID HE WENT DOWN ABOUT... RIGHT OVER THE UH, MARKER.
POWER CACTUS: UH, 1452 IS COMING UP ON COMPTON. WE JUST SAW THE GROUND. YOU GUYS KNOW WHAT’S GOING ON?
CACTUS, IT’S 1452 BUFFALO TIRE WINTER 26014, AND WAIT 23 TO COURE D’ALENE — YES, SIR, WE ARE AWARE.
Editor's note: Now a second Colgan turboprop approaches, and the flight controller asks if he wants a different approach to the landing.
COLGAN 3268 APPROACH.
SIR, I NEED YOU TO PREPARE YOURSELF. UM, COMPANY-DASH 8 IN BOUND — WE THINK WENT DOWN OVER THE OUTER MARKER. UMMM, WE’RE NOT SURE WHY. I’M NOT SURE IF YOU WANT TO TRY AND REPROACH. SINCE THEN, WE’VE HAD MORE AIRCRAFT GOING — THEY WERE ALL JETS.
SIR, IT WAS ANOTHER DASH-8 APPROXIMATELY 15 MINUTES AGO — AND WE’RE NOT SURE WHY.
UHHHH... CAN YOU... UH, CLARIFY THE, UHH, THE DASH-8? UHHH, WHAT, UMMM, HOW DO YOU MEAN IT WENT DOWN?
HE DIDN’T MAKE THE AIRPORT. HE WAS CLEAR FOR THE APPROACH, HE WENT OVER THE TOWER, HE DIDN’T CALL THE TOWER — BASICALLY HE EXITED DOWN... AND WE COULDN’T GET A HOLD OF HIM IN HIS REPORT. HE’S, UH, WENT DOWN OVER FIVE MILES NORTHWEST OF THE AIRPORT.
UHH, YEAH — WE’LL SHOOT THEIR PURSE STILL.
TELL THEM 3268, ROGER... THERE HAVE BEEN FOUR POINT SHOOTING APPROACHES AND UH, SO, JUST TO LET YOU KNOW. COLGAN 3268 — HE’S SENDING YOUR DISCRETION
MAINTAIN 3,500. AIRCRAFT DO REPORT ONCE THEY GET TO ABOUT 2,300 — AND THEY’RE OUT (INAUDIBLE)
ALL RIGHT — 3,500 IS COOL FOR 3268.”
Feb 18 2009, 06:34 PM
Group: Student Forum Pilot
Joined: 18-February 09
Member No.: 4,130
Look guys I'm new to here and it’s my first Post.
Actually, I'm very grateful for your accepting me into the group as today I am working against my second stage of the Grieving Process, it would seem and I've been fuming mad, but only after I started to encounter what I perceived, no doubt rather non-objectively, one-sidedly, as apathy from other 9/11-Truth Groups.
I am not a Pilot and I respect you for the qualified work you do. I am a radio technician type.
But I am also an advocate for Beverley Eckert's 9/11 Testimony, that of the final conversation she had with her husband on floor 105 WTC 2. Accordingly, I did have some emotional investment with Beverley and those feelings immediately became intense on Saturday morning when I learnt of the event.
You see, I am perhaps, misguidedly trying to promote a Benefit/Tribute do of some kind for Bev Eckert who died on the flight, I still can't believe I'm saying that .. it really sucks .. Because I've been helping promote her Final testimony words with her husband, regarding an explosion they heard on the cellphone, out into the public Domain — and greatly succeeding.
I have as you'd expect taken this event rather personally. I didn't know her personally, I've never met her in person but I had accepted her offer, after much delay, to investigate the reports she made regarding the explosion at 105, explanations for which NIST, who she addressed personally (as you can imagine in her capacity), but whom were not helpful, did not come to pass to her satisfaction. I have a whole Online Document accurately describing the whole story and ... so on.
In reflection, I actually feel, though I can't be certain of it, that she came back to me, after 7 months from my enquiry to her, suggesting that I look into it, or perhaps she knew I would publicise her words widely. The BBC 5th Anniversary of 9/11 Radio Program transmissions, edited her testimony, removing the words "an explosion and" from her accounts of the phone call. This is what caught my attention. From that very moment on, which was extremely alarming and personal for me, I became passionately involved, well to my best offs, in finding out, what the darn was going on. Why would the BBC edit Beverley's explicit references to "an explosion and", from her very emotional & personal testimony.
That phone call is apparently now held in a NYC museum as part of a memorial exhibit, I learned just the other day.
Perhaps, only perhaps and I really deeply spiritually question the supplied inference from the psych books that I'm in the bargaining phase of Grief ie: "Traditionally the bargaining stage for people facing death can involve attempting to bargain with whatever God the person believes in. People facing less serious trauma can bargain or seek to negotiate a compromise ..."
Anyways, you now know who and what I am. Back onto the Flight Comms Transcription
I'm not much good at understanding this pilot talk, and I'm a long long term active Radio Ham or amateur as us limeys like to be known, yet still I can't get my head around a lot of this 'quick fire' break talk that you airline Pilots seem to use.
However, I DO UNDERSTAND WHAT "SQUARKS" are as present on ATC screens and radar. I got a tour of a Fylingdales networked SSPAR PAVE-PAWS Ballistic Missile early warning system setup. They had it all going, "SQUARK" ID's on screen and all...
So to help me I got hold of this interpretation of the transcript from what appears to be a guy who knows the lingo ... and the technology ... he may well be an ex aviator ... whatever. So, this is what our man made of it, I'm not sure it's a correct analysis or interpretation of the breakdown in communications & transponder signals etc. What do you think, but more importantly Gentlemen, and I'll not delay in asking - "What do you know".
Read on please:
"Read the transcript of the final communications from flight 3407. ...
3407 is there one moment, then gone the next.
Now, look at this line from the transcript.
17:40 - delta 1998: uh negative, delta 1998, we're just in the bottoms and nothing on the TKs
Listening to the tape, it sounds like what the pilot of 1998 said was "... nothing on the TCAS."
TCAS (pronounced T-cass) stands for Traffic Collision Avoidance System, which sends out a lower power non-directional radar pulse and listens for any aircraft transponders in the vicinity. in order to warn pilots of close approaching aircraft. So, what the pilot of Delta 1998 is saying is that at the time ATC asked him to look for a Dash-8 at 2300, 3407's radar transponders had quit working.
One final note. If the Air Traffic Controller is telling the pilot of Delta 1998 to look at 2300 feet altitude for the Dash 8, then that means the last altitude reading returned to the ATC was 2300 feet. Air Traffic radar never received a return showing a loss of altitude, which strongly suggests that the aircraft's entire electrical system quit working while the plane was still half a mile in the air."
So again, the "SQUARK", if there ever was a permanent one transmitting, I don't know, had gone at the same time as the Communications and it would appear too, the entire electrical system, by inference, of Continental 3407.
Again, many thanks, for letting me in.
.... Sorry it's so long winded ... But this is only the beginning. I want to get to the bottom of this ... I lost someone I had an investment with ... And my position as her Advocate in death remains, even more strong than it was when she was with us.
PS/ My Amateur Radio Callsign by the way is: GM4BRB. (Full ticket since 1972).
A sked for voice contact via Echolink can be arranged at any time.
This post has been edited by Graeme: Feb 18 2009, 06:52 PM
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