Plane Crash In New York State, 9/11 victim's wife aboard. Options

[Omega892R09]

I am not about to hypothesise but others here may be able to fill in any blanks:

Plane crash in NY state kills 49 - BBC

[rob balsamo]

Colgan 3407 Air Traffic Control Audio and Transcript

ATC Audio provided by www.liveatc.net. Transcript provided by http://pilotsfor911truth.org. Edited for pauses and irrelevant air traffic.

[Graeme]

ATC Audio provided by www.liveatc.net. Transcript provided by http://pilotsfor911truth.org. Edited for pauses and irrelevant air traffic.

Let's listen this early Tube posted by Pilots for 9/11-Truth on the day (Friday 13th, 2009), again ...

Colgan 3407 Air Traffic Control Audio and Transcript

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?s=&showtopic=16320&view=findpost&p=10764620

ATC Audio provided by www.liveatc.net. Transcript provided by http://pilotsfor911truth.org. Edited for pauses and irrelevant air traffic.

Remember this is just the ATC to all aircraft in the area of approach, right? Excuse the lack of terminology. ATC, (after it is established Colgan 3407 has fallen out of the skies) , ask other approach aircraft what their current experience of ice is, and whether they are having any erratic variation on the data from the ILS (Instrument Landing System).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Instrument_landing_system

The Cockpit Voice Recorder rescued from the Buffalo Crash site revealed the in-cockpit communications. "We're Down" were the last words, if I remember correctly, and which pretty much sum their experience up. But yes, the Squark transponder and all electronic communications Ground-to-Air / Air-to-Ground for Colgan 3407 seem to have been immediately interrupted and ...

Reports by civilian witnesses from the ground repeatedly mention Engine sounds being erratic 'sputtering' off and on ...
This could refer to all four engines. I'm no air-mechanic, but I presume that in these modern electronic controlled planes total onboard electronics failure would account for these factors:

1) No comms Ground-to-Air / Air-to-Ground.
2) No squark signal on the ATC screens. ('Just dropped off the radar')
2) Global Engine Failure. (all four props)

So, where does the Rime Ice excuse play in this?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hard_rime

The Other Pilots on approach to Buffalo are clearly heard in this tube saying that they've had small build-ups of ice for the last 5 thru 20 miles and the last account says it's peeling off the windscreen, hence not causing difficulty for or affecting anyone else currently on approach to Buffalo. They all seem to be coping.
And that's precisely when we have to pull out the magic 'rabbit in the hat' explanation of pilot incompetance.

If it wasn't for the very convenient out-clause of these allegedly incompetant pilots being unable to cope with a little Rime Ice build-up, then the NTSB may have been forced to investigate this Watershed Aircrash more intently, looking at reasons for the total outages I noted above.

But was there a total electronics outage onboard Colgan 3407? That's the remaining question which I've NEVER seen addressed by anyone. Was that data registered in the FDR (Flight Data Recorder)? Does that equipment run off autonymous systems? Excuse me if I've missed something on other posts regarding that.

Was there a power / control / communications & primary electronics outage on this plane?
If provable not, then we're home and dry aren't we. Lucky us!

This post has been edited by Graeme: Aug 1 2010, 12:45 PM

[starviego]

Here is more evidence that engine failure, not pilot error, was the true factor in this crash:


File ID 417219 from the NTSB Dockets, ''Powerplant Group field notes,'' does seem to indicate that the left prop may have thrown three 'counterweight' assemblies right before the crash, which may have caused some of the shaft bearings to disintegrate(or vise versa). Remember a few of the ear-witnesses heard a sound like metal grinding on metal.


No 1 engine-

pg2of23
-Three of the six counterweights remained attached to their respective propeller blade outer sleeve, while the other three had become separated and were not recovered by the Powerplant Group.

pg7of23
The No.15 roller bearing, located on the aft side of the bull gear, was present and the cage was fractured with two(2) of the roller elements missing. ...the No.19 roller bearing rolling elements were visible and one(1) roller was missing. ....The No.2.5 roller bearing cage was still attached to the front of the LP shaft. The cage appeared intact but all the roller elements were missing.

pg8of23
The outer diameter of the PT(power turbine) shaft exhibited circumferential rub mark(s) from the fractured end to almost the shoulder where the shaft diameter changes.

pg10of23
The three(3) blade positions sequentially around about the top(as the propellor was situated on the ground) had complete sets of counterweight assemblies(counter weight arm, counterweight, and rear collar) still attached, while the three(3) blade positions that were buried in the ground were missing their complete counterweight assembly.

It should be noted that none of the aforementioned damage was reported for the No.2 engine.


A few of the eyewitness accounts were consistent with an engine fire--

File ID 431227
pg4of131, Maha Abdallah
Before the plane impacted the ground, Abdallah noticed sparks coming from the plane.

pg9of131, Stanley Barnas
...he saw a bright orange flash out of the living room window. ...Barnas is 100percent certain that he saw the bright orange flash before the crash.

pg15of131, Cindy Borgosz
...saw a bright orange glow through the west window.... the orange glow was not flickering. ....the orange glow diminished, then there was a large boom and an orange 'mushroom cloud.''

pg22of131, Patricial Burns
...noticed flames coming from the rear of the aircraft.

pg96of131, Kaitlin Smith
...she saw a red/orange light in the sky.... after the flash, the sky darkened and then she heard a big bang.



They said they never found the missing counterweights. Maybe they should have looked harder--

pg27of131, Mary Cimato
The Cimato's also pointed out three large holes in a pond located behind their house... ... The previous day the entire pond was frozen over, and the morning after the crash they observed holes in the ice.


/

[Graeme]

Here is more evidence that engine failure, not pilot error, was the true factor in this crash:
[...]

Dear Starviego.

You have quoted plenty of interesting yet unverifiable from my position 'witness statements' in namely:

1) NTSB Dockets, File 431227--witness statements
2) NTSB Dockets, File 417219--witness statements

Could you provide internet FOIA URL's to visit, to allow us to verify these these alleged witness statements.

Thankyou very much.

[starviego]

You can access the documents here:

http://www.ntsb.gov/dockets/aviation/DCA09MA027/

---------------------------

new


The official version has it that the plane plunged to the ground at a very steep angle. However, the accounts of a few of the witnesses indicate the plane was already flying very low and level while it was still a long way from impact. This suggests that the pilot had re-gained control of the plane after the stall, and hence something else caused the final, fatal plunge to earth. To wit:

(From the FBI docs* on the investigation of the Colgan flt 3407 crash)

pg123 of 166
On the evening of 2-12-09, (Redacted) heard a low flying plane near his house that was unlike the sound of other airplanes he has heard nearby. The aircraft was flying so low that it made him shriek. (Redacted) was later watching television and saw the breaking news coverage of the airplane crash and then realized the he is only 6-8 miles from the crash site and that the airplane he heard was likely the one that crashed.

pg124 of 166
On the night of Thursday, February 12, 2009, (Redacted) was on duty (Redacted). At 10:15 pm or 10:30pm, (Redacted) was outside disposing of garbage, when he heard a plane which was very low and didn't sound normal. (Redacted) cited a "rambling noise" which sounded as if an engine was not running properly.
Administrative: (Redacted) is approximately ten miles due East of the crash site.

pg146 of 166
At approximately 10:15pm on February 12, 2009 (Redacted) heard a low flying plane by her house. She said the plane was making loud noises, as though metal was banging and clattering. (Redacted) said she lives 12-15 miles away from the crash site, but believes the plane she heard was flight 3407. She did not see the plane in flight.


Another witness confirmed that the plane was flying level before the crash:

pg20 of 166
It was flying approximately two to three times the height of the tree line, and the airplane's flying lights were on. ... At first the airplane seemed to be flying level, but then it suddenly went nose down and crashed. ((Redacted) made her hand flat to describe the airplane flying level, and made an abrupt downward motion).




*These documents were mailed to me by the FBI after I filed a FOIA request. Due to financial limitations on my part they are not yet posted on the net.

This post has been edited by starviego: Nov 17 2010, 01:11 PM