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Plane Crash In New York State, 9/11 victim's wife aboard.

Cheri
post Mar 1 2009, 11:16 PM
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It is said that flying is safer than driving...with that in mind do any of you know of ANY OTHER spouse or significant other of any of the other 911 victims dying in a plane crash?
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amazed!
post Mar 1 2009, 11:19 PM
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Quite a web you weave LL. Fascinating stuff.

If there had not been the weather, the deliberate take down could be more plausible.

Fate is the hunter and everything kinda came together. Sounds like an old fashioned stall/spin to me, transponder and altitude data notwithstanding.

Graeme

That sure is an interesting story about how you and Beverly were involved. salute.gif

The FAA spells it SQUAWK
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grizz
post Mar 1 2009, 11:45 PM
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Well, if we're going to invoke Sorcha Faal, I'll share this from the Tom Heneghan Intelligence Briefing. I have no idea who this guy is, and I've not been able to find anything out about him, so who knows if his blog rantings are real or imaginary?

This is from a blog dated Feb 15.

QUOTE
STORY DEVELOPING: We are now working on a story, which deals with the sabotage of Continental Express Flight 3407 from Newark, New Jersey to Buffalo, New York. Continental Express Flight 3407 was brought down by electromagnetic pulse. The target of this sabotage, which is now an assassination, was the late 9/11 Whistleblower Beverly Eckert.

Eckert was to arrive in Buffalo, New York and then fly to Chicago, Illinois with major NEW 9/11 evidence, which was financial in nature, showing PRE 9/11 knowledge of the attacks and the involvement of the "black ops" unit of the U.S. Pentagon, along with the Israeli Mossad and the East German Stasi DVD.

Eckert was on the way to Chicago to meet with Special Counsel Patrick Fitzgerald with evidence showing that her phone was illegally wiretapped for five (5) years by the illegal Bushfraud NSA spy operation, “Stellar Wind”.

Eckert was also in possession of DNA samples and recent photographs showing the alleged 9/11 hijackers were still alive!

We can also reveal that Eckert had been in direct communication with then presidential candidate Barack Obama and Caroline Kennedy, daughter of assassinated President Kennedy, for the past two (2) years concerning this evidence.

The EMF electronic attack on Continental Express Flight 3407 was triggered from a site in Canada near the U.S. border at the time the aircraft turned on their de-icing machine and lowered their landing gear.

The plane was also on auto pilot at the time just as John F. Kennedy Jr.'s aircraft was when his private aircraft was brought down enroute to Hyannis Port, Massachusetts in 1999.

Final note: The corporate U.S. media filth continues to encourage this out-of-control crime spree against the American People.

Example: Both Joe Klein of TIME magazine and the aforementioned British Intelligence asset Tina Brown tipped off the Bush-Clinton Crime Family Syndicate on the activities of 9/11 Whistleblower Beverly Eckert and Ms. Eckert’s conversations with Caroline Kennedy.

We see now, folks, why both Joe Klein and Tina Brown orchestrated a massive anti-Catholic smear against then New York Senatorial candidate Caroline Bouvier Kennedy.

How dare you, you conspiratorial tyrants and kings and notable queens!


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Cheri
post Mar 1 2009, 11:51 PM
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I find it interesting that out of a group of 911 truth activists/researches such as we are there are still some that are unwilling to believe our government could do something like this...and I am in NO way saying the woman was murdered, I am just saying that the jury is still out and we should all keep an open mind and dig deeper.
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rob balsamo
post Mar 2 2009, 12:33 AM
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Preliminary is out from NTSB. Not much as expected...

QUOTE
NTSB Identification: DCA09MA027
Scheduled 14 CFR Part 121: Air Carrier operation of COLGAN AIR INC
Accident occurred Thursday, February 12, 2009 in Clarence, NY
Aircraft: BOMBARDIER INC DHC-8-402, registration: N200WQ
Injuries: 49 Fatal.

This is preliminary information, subject to change, and may contain errors. Any errors in this report will be corrected when the final report has been completed.

On February 12, 2009, about 2217 eastern standard time (EST), a Colgan Air Inc., Bombardier Dash 8-Q400, N200WQ, d.b.a. Continental Connection flight 3407, crashed during an instrument approach to runway 23 at the Buffalo-Niagara International Airport (BUF), Buffalo, New York. The crash site was approximately 5 nautical miles northeast of the airport in Clarence Center, New York, and mostly confined to one residential house. The four flight crew and 45 passengers were fatally injured and the aircraft was destroyed by impact forces and post crash fire. There was one ground fatality. Night visual meteorological conditions prevailed at the time of the accident. The flight was a Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Part 121 scheduled passenger flight from Liberty International Airport (EWR), Newark, New Jersey to BUF.

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=2...13613&key=1


Related Items

Keep an eye on above link as im sure the NTSB will offer an animation based on FDR/CVR.

Also interesting to note, Southwest Pilot Union put an advisory out to its pilots...

QUOTE
Safety Alert issued to SWA Pilots regarding the ILS 23 KBUF
Safety Alert 2009-1
BUF ILS Hazard



SWAPA Pilots,

There is a potentially significant hazard concerning the ILS to runway 23 in BUF.

Information has been received indicating it is possible to obtain a significant nose pitch up, in some cases as much as 30 degrees, if the glide slope is allowed to capture before established on centerline. Pilots who are preparing to configure and land have the potential to experience abrupt pitch up, slow airspeed, and approach to stall if conditions present themselves in a certain manner.

This effect is the result of an earthen obstruction close enough to the ILS to affect the integrity of the glide slope signal. This has resulted in the issuance of an advisory given on ATIS which states that "the ILS Glide Slope for runway 23 is unusable beyond 5 degrees right of course."
When attempting to intercept the runway 23 ILS from right traffic, the ILS glide slope indication may read full deflection down. Just prior to intercept it may then move up in such as manner as to enable approach mode to capture in such a way as to result in a nose up pitch and loss of airspeed.

Southwest Airlines has issued a notice reading: "Until further notice, when executing the KBUF ILS/LOC Runway 23, DO NOT select Approach Mode until established on the localizer inbound."
This issue is being addressed on several levels in an attempt to address procedures, facilities, and communication regarding this matter. If you experience any issues related to this, please file an ASAP form and or call SWAPA Safety at SWAPA toll free.


Reading further around some other aviation forums, this 'hazard' has been around since 2001 and is NOTAM'ed. The glitch happens when being vectored for the approach from the North. Colgan was vectored from the south. But still, i found it interesting to note. You can google for more articles pertaining to this anomaly on KBUF ILS 23.
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dMz
post Mar 2 2009, 12:53 AM
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A belated hello and welcome Graeme.
welcome.gif
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albertchampion
post Mar 2 2009, 02:19 AM
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yes, i suppose a sudden flat spin of only downward[no forward propulsion] travel could have been the culprit. and i suppose that at such a low altitude it augured in so rapidly that the flight crew was unable to communicate.

and though i wondered about the conflagration that the local fire department reported, one of my office wallahs, from that part of the world, tells me that it would not be unusual for the residence to have 300+ gallons of heating oil in a basement tank.

but if it was a contrived catastrophe, the target was alison des forges. she knows things that the state would prefer not be revealed about ruanda, burundi, the congo. things of which she is, has been, cognizant.
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amazed!
post Mar 2 2009, 10:51 AM
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Grizz

I am skeptical of the blog you offered. It was not established that JFK's autopilot was on, and my bet is that it was NOT. Just my opinion, but if he had it on, most likely he would still be with us.

Both accidents are relatively common type aviation accidents.

As for all the allegations about Beverly and her new evidence, if that is true I hope she confided in SOMEBODY somewhere along the line. We can only speculate, but it seems going through Buffalo from Newark is a strange way to get to Chicago.
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grizz
post Mar 2 2009, 10:58 AM
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QUOTE (amazed! @ Mar 2 2009, 06:51 AM) *
Grizz

I am skeptical of the blog you offered.

As am I. I only put it here because we had the Sorcha Faal take on the situation, and there are some similarities. I look at it as a way to discern disinformation by displaying it.

If you read some of Tom Henegan's blogs, you'll see that either he has inside information that no one else does, or he's a nutcase.

QUOTE
As for all the allegations about Beverly and her new evidence, if that is true I hope she confided in SOMEBODY somewhere along the line. We can only speculate, but it seems going through Buffalo from Newark is a strange way to get to Chicago.

Remember, she was going to Buffalo to celebrate her late husband's birthday, according to media accounts.
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amazed!
post Mar 2 2009, 11:12 AM
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Thanks Grizz.
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kgray1
post Mar 20 2009, 02:57 AM
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QUOTE (JFK @ Feb 13 2009, 09:01 PM) *


I'd like to think that our elected officials had nothing to do with the death of my cousin Elly Kausner. But I wouldn't put it passed them to cover up anything from 911. I was brought up in Clarence and went to Clarence Senior High School. And yes, once again, my cousin was a passenger on that plane. When are people going to open their eyes and see what type of people they are really electing to office? That will do anything for their own personal gain!
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rob balsamo
post Mar 20 2009, 03:01 AM
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Welcome kgray!

By the way folks.. be nice to kgray.. i know him personally... good friend. wink.gif
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dMz
post Mar 20 2009, 03:04 AM
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Hello and welcome kgray1. I'm sorry to hear of your loss. I've lost a few friends/family to cancer in the recent past myself.
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kgray1
post Mar 20 2009, 03:04 AM
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QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Mar 20 2009, 02:01 AM) *
Welcome kgray!

By the way folks.. be nice to kgray.. i know him personally... good friend. wink.gif

Thanks for the vote of confidence Rob! And we may be roommates in the future too. Right?
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rob balsamo
post Mar 20 2009, 03:14 AM
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QUOTE (kgray1 @ Mar 20 2009, 03:04 AM) *
Thanks for the vote of confidence Rob! And we may be roommates in the future too. Right?



TN is looking promising again.. smile.gif
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Graeme
post Apr 3 2009, 03:52 PM
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QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Mar 2 2009, 05:33 AM) *
Preliminary is out from NTSB. Not much as expected...


Related Items

Keep an eye on above link as im sure the NTSB will offer an animation based on FDR/CVR.

Also interesting to note, Southwest Pilot Union put an advisory out to its pilots...


Reading further around some other aviation forums, this 'hazard' has been around since 2001 and is NOTAM'ed. The glitch happens when being vectored for the approach from the North. Colgan was vectored from the south. But still, i found it interesting to note. You can google for more articles pertaining to this anomaly on KBUF ILS 23.


Just wanted to profer thanks to Rob for the updates on Ice Related Probabilities in relation to this flight.
In the Grapevine, I've heard that it's going to be a WHOLE YEAR, before the NTSB will be able to release it's final conclusions on 3407. Delay being for legal reasons involving the families and so forth.
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rob balsamo
post Apr 28 2009, 12:17 AM
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QUOTE
NTSB Advisory
National Transportation Safety Board
Washington, DC 20594
March 25, 2009

UPDATE ON NTSB INVESTIGATION INTO CRASH OF COLGAN AIR DASH-8 NEAR BUFFALO, NEW YORK; PUBLIC HEARING SCHEDULED


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


In its continuing investigation into the crash of Colgan Air flight 3407 in Clarence Center, New York, the National Transportation Safety Board has released the following factual information.

On February 12, 2009, about 10:17 p.m. Eastern Standard Time (EST), a Colgan Air Inc., Bombardier Dash 8-Q400, N200WQ, d.b.a. Continental Connection flight 3407, crashed during an instrument approach to runway 23 at the Buffalo-Niagara International Airport (BUF), Buffalo, New York. The crash site was approximately 5 nautical miles northeast of the airport in Clarence Center, New York, and mostly confined to one residential house. The 4 crew members and 45 passengers were fatally injured and the airplane was destroyed by impact forces and post crash fire. There was one ground fatality. Night visual meteorological conditions prevailed at the time of the accident. The flight was a Code of Federal Regulations (CFR) Part 121 scheduled passenger flight from Liberty International Airport (EWR), Newark, New Jersey to Buffalo.

The NTSB has voted to conduct a public hearing on this accident. The hearing, which will be held May 12 – 14, 2009 at the NTSB's Board Room and Conference Center in Washington, D.C., will cover a wide range of safety issues including: icing effect on the airplane’s performance, cold weather operations, sterile cockpit rules, crew experience, fatigue management, and stall recovery training. The public hearing is part of the Safety Board’s efforts to develop all appropriate facts for the investigation.

“The tragedy of flight 3407 is the deadliest transportation accident in the United States in more than 7 years,” Acting Chairman Mark V. Rosenker, who will chair the hearing, said. “The circumstances of the crash have raised several issues that go well beyond the widely discussed matter of airframe icing, and we will explore these issues in our investigative fact-finding hearing.”

The hearing will be held “en banc,” meaning that all Members of the NTSB will sit on the Board of Inquiry. Parties that will participate in the hearing will be announced at a later time.

The aircraft wreckage has been moved from the accident site to a secure location for follow-on inspections as may be needed.

A preliminary examination of the airplane systems has revealed no indication of pre-impact system failures or anomalies. Investigators will perform additional examinations on the dual distribution valves installed in the airplane’s de-ice system. The de-ice system removes ice accumulation from the leading edges of the wings, horizontal tail, and vertical tail through the use of pneumatic boots. The dual distribution valves, which transfer air between the main bleed air distribution ducts and the pneumatic boots, were removed from the airplane for the examination.

The airplane maintenance records have been reviewed and no significant findings have been identified at this time.

The ATC group has completed a review of recordings of controller communications with the flight crew during the accident flight and conducted interviews with air traffic controllers on duty at the time of the accident. The group has no further work planned at this time.

Further review of the weather conditions on the night of the accident revealed the presence of variable periods of snow and light to moderate icing during the accident airplane’s approach to the Buffalo airport.

Examination of the FDR data and preliminary evaluation of airplane performance models shows that some ice accumulation was likely present on the airplane prior to the initial upset event, but that the airplane continued to respond as expected to flight control inputs throughout the accident flight. The FDR data also shows that the stall warning and protection system, which includes the stick shaker and stick pusher, activated at an airspeed and angle-of-attack (AOA) consistent with that expected for normal operations when the de-ice protection system is active. The airplane’s stick shaker will normally activate several knots above the actual airplane stall speed in order to provide the flight crew with a sufficient safety margin and time to initiate stall recovery procedures. As a result of ice accumulation on the airframe, an airplane’s stall airspeed increases. To account for this potential increase in stall speed in icing conditions, the Dash 8-Q400’s stall warning system activates at a higher airspeed than normal when the de-ice system is active in-flight to provide the flight crew with adequate stall warning if ice accumulation is present.

Preliminary airplane performance modeling and simulation efforts indicate that icing had a minimal impact on the stall speed of the airplane. The FDR data indicates that the stick shaker activated at 130 knots, which is consistent with the de-ice system being engaged. FDR data further indicate that when the stick shaker activated, there was a 25-pound pull force on the control column, followed by an up elevator deflection and increase in pitch, angle of attack, and Gs. The data indicate a likely separation of the airflow over the wing and ensuing roll two seconds after the stick shaker activated while the aircraft was slowing through 125 knots and while at a flight load of 1.42 Gs. The predicted stall speed at a load factor of 1 G would be about 105 knots. Airplane performance work is continuing.

Since returning from on-scene, the Operations & Human performance group have conducted additional interviews with flight crew members who had recently flown with and/or provided instruction to the accident crew, as well as personnel at Colgan Air responsible for providing training of flight crews and overseeing the management and safety operations at the airline. The group also conducted interviews with FAA personnel responsible for oversight of the Colgan certificate, which included the Principal Operations Inspector (POI) and aircrew program manager for the Dash 8 Q-400. The team has also continued its review of documentation, manuals, and other guidance pertaining to the operation of the Dash 8 Q-400 and training materials provided to the Colgan Air flight crews.

The Operations & Human Performance group continues to investigate and review documentation associated with the flight crew’s flight training history and professional development during their employment at Colgan as well as prior to joining the company.

Post-accident toxicological testing of the flight crew was performed by the FAA Civil Aerospace Medical Institute (CAMI) toxicology lab. Specimens taken from the first officer were negative for alcohol, illicit substances, and a wide range of prescription and over the counter medications. Specimens taken from the captain were negative for alcohol and illicit substances, and positive for diltiazem, a prescription blood pressure medication that had been reported to and approved for his use by the Federal Aviation Administration.

The Safety Board is also examining several other areas potentially related to the accident, including:

The circumstances of a recent event involving a Dash 8-Q400, operated by Colgan Air, in which the airplane’s stick shaker activated during approach to the Burlington International Airport (BTV) in Burlington, Vermont. A preliminary review of the FDR data from that flight shows the momentary onset of the stick shaker during the approach phase of flight. The airplane subsequently landed without incident. NTSB investigators have conducted interviews with the pilots and check airman on board this flight and will continue to investigate the incident.
Reports of airplane deviations resulting from distortion of the instrument landing system (ILS) signal for runway 23 at BUF. There is an existing Notice to Airmen (NOTAM) related to this distortion condition. To date, investigation into these reports has not revealed any connection to the accident flight.
-30-

Media Contact: Keith Holloway, (202) 314-6100
Keith.Holloway@ntsb.gov


http://www.ntsb.gov/pressrel/2009/090325.html
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Ricochet
post Apr 28 2009, 02:03 PM
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Flight 3407 and swine flu connection. FWIW.
http://aconstantineblacklist.blogspot.com/...ger-worked.html
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paranoia
post May 12 2009, 11:45 PM
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"Buffalo crash: Pilots acted 'just opposite' of normal practices"

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-0...rash-side_N.htm

(article includes links to NTSB animation that inlcudes alleged communication transmissions)



"Family members watch NTSB hearings"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ieCJ46u_-g




NTSB animation:
http://www.ntsb.gov/events/2009/Buffalo-NY...Description.htm


other new ntsb:
http://www.ntsb.gov/events/2009/Buffalo-NY...lic_Hearing.pdf

http://www.ntsb.gov/pressrel/2009/090508b.html



QUOTE
http://www.ntsb.gov/events/2009/Buffalo-NY/Default.html

"The National Transportation Safety Board will hold a 3-day public hearing on Colgan Air, Inc. Flight 3407, Bombardier DHC8-400, N200WQ beginning on Tuesday, May 12, 2009, at 9:00 a.m. The hearing will be open to the public and will take place in the Board Room and Conference Center at 429 L'Enfant Plaza, S.W., Washington, D.C.

This hearing will also be telecast on the Board’s website,
at http://www.ntsb.gov/Events/hearing_sched.htm.

The goal of the upcoming hearing is for the Safety Board to learn more about the Colgan Air, Inc. aviation accident. The Board will invite expert witnesses to provide sworn testimony. Additionally, several organizations will be granted “party status” to the hearing so that they may question the witnesses directly. The witnesses and parties will represent a range of aviation-related communities and other officials who provide oversight. "



full docket:
http://www.ntsb.gov/Dockets/Aviation/DCA09MA027/default.htm
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albertchampion
post May 14 2009, 12:33 AM
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it is an odd transcript of the cvr.

and the proposition that the flight crew didn't understand what a "shaker" indicated really puzzles me.

and the response of "lifting" the nose really confuses me. that is the absolute contradiction to a stall.

which propels me to ask this question, are the jockeys of these regional aircraft that lame?

more confusing is the recording of the last minutes of this flight...as the icing is noticed and discussed. and this crew apparently energizes no efforts to escape those conditions. was this crew brain-damaged?

i never piloted an aircraft with passengers other than my immediate family. and i never ignored the lethality of icing conditions. i encountered icing, i worked feverishly to escape.

one is forced to ask, did this flight crew not recognize the lethality of their situation?

i scratch my head. and wonder if i shall ever entrust my life to such idiots ever again.

it caused me to think about the beech 1900's from gillette, wy to denver. in the summer. when they almost always flew overgross. i don't do that now.
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