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Bombardier Dash 8/Q-400, Brief focus on Dash-8 as gleaned from former RCF Pilot.

Graeme
post Mar 13 2009, 04:43 PM
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I have a particular interest in the Bombardier aircraft that came down on Friday 12th February on Buffalo NYC, that is Continental 3407.

I would like a focussed thread to be opened and kept open on this crash & this aircraft since it caused the death of a leading personality in The real 9/11-Truth Movement, as you probably are willing to accept. I believe this crash must, for me personally be in reciept of as much attention as the hijacked 9/11 Aircraft. That's IMHO.

On 3rd March I spoke for ~40 minutes to a former RCF (Royal Canadian Airforce) Pilot from Kamloops B.C., who had some experience of Bombardier (a Canadiancompany). I can't recall if he said he'd flown in a Dash 8 but I suspect that was the Lockheed Hercules.

He was surprised to hear that the stories of Ice-Causing the Crash didn't fit the facts of the High Spec anti-ice features of this particular aircraft.

He said that Bombardier was originally manufacturing in Montreal and they used to build in their early days the 'Skidoo' or 'Snowmobile'; that would be in the mid-1970's.

It seems the NTSB enquiry is veering towards a 'Pilot's Training' angle on this Crash, as the main contributory cause for the Nose Stall. However, that doesn't address our NO-TRANSPODERS, NO-SQUARKS, and NO-TELECOMMS issues. SO all these other factors remaining the same, YOU KNOW I CAN'T accept the official story yet.
Crash Probe Turns to Pilot Training
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123500459726218073.html
The Wall Street Journal.

Come on guys, I look up to you Pilot types (pun intended) & I lost someone I had a bunch invested in on this crash and I want to know one way or the other.

What do people know lately regarding Colgan/Continental 3407?

This post has been edited by Graeme: Mar 13 2009, 06:46 PM
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dMz
post Mar 13 2009, 05:21 PM
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Hello Graeme,

I just moved this thread that got buried on the Latest News forum to this forum. It might be worth revisiting some of that, and I think there may have been another thread on flight 3407 here too. I will do a little digging when I get time on the aircraft portion. I didn't find much other than Fox Noise, CBS, and MSNBC in a search just now, so I don't think the NTSB report has been released yet.

Here is the older thread:

Plane Crash In New York State, 9/11 victim's wife aboard.
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....showtopic=16320

I just got a "no record found" here, but it could be my computer too:

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/query.asp
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albertchampion
post Mar 13 2009, 08:15 PM
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i recognize that for this site, the 11/09/01 link is stimulating, but it is my understanding that this widow has never contested the oct. that she was never a party to the jersey girls petitioning for an investigation. i could be getting her inaccurately, but as i understand her, she was an advocate of the usg making a greater effort to round-up the perps, all those members of al-fresco who were responsible for the events of that day. in other words, she is a believer in the state deceptions. true believers in the prevarications of the state are not ordinarily targeted.

but, there was a woman on that flight who would have been targeted. that was alison des forges. from her years in africa, she knew of things that the usg would prefer never to have revealed. she would have been knowledgeable of the africom activities. she would have been knowledgeable of the usg/france conspiracy to incite the ruanda massacres. she would have been knowledgeable of the special forces/dyncorp/blackwater/sas/sbs operations that are alive and running in that mineral rich area of africa.

if you were there as long as she was there, she knows of all the spook ops being run out of dc, london, and la piscine, and tel aviv.

alison des forges was the target. everyone else was collateral damage. as i have told you on many occasions, the best way to hide a murder is to cover it in a catastrophe.
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Graeme
post Mar 13 2009, 09:18 PM
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QUOTE (albertchampion @ Mar 14 2009, 12:15 AM) *
i recognize that for this site, the 11/09/01 link is stimulating, but it is my understanding that this widow has never contested the oct. that she was never a party to the jersey girls petitioning for an investigation. i could be getting her inaccurately, but as i understand her, she was an advocate of the usg making a greater effort to round-up the perps, all those members of al-fresco who were responsible for the events of that day. in other words, she is a believer in the state deceptions. true believers in the prevarications of the state are not ordinarily targeted.

but, there was a woman on that flight who would have been targeted. that was alison des forges. from her years in africa, she knew of things that the usg would prefer never to have revealed. she would have been knowledgeable of the africom activities. she would have been knowledgeable of the usg/france conspiracy to incite the ruanda massacres. she would have been knowledgeable of the special forces/dyncorp/blackwater/sas/sbs operations that are alive and running in that mineral rich area of africa.

if you were there as long as she was there, she knows of all the spook ops being run out of dc, london, and la piscine, and tel aviv.

alison des forges was the target. everyone else was collateral damage. as i have told you on many occasions, the best way to hide a murder is to cover it in a catastrophe.


All taken onboard, and though a lot of water has gone under the bridge since, it's Eckert's Personal testimony that got me involved in an investigation into the editing of that testimony & shortly aftewards - 9/11, 7/07 & a whole nexus of issues many of which I have published to excess in other places. I was even on National BBC Radio a week after her death explaining about Eckert's anti-Gitmo conversation with Obamabad a week before Continental 3407. And the BBC's editing of Eckert's widow testimony is just the place where as I just said, it all started for me, so kind of underscores the gravity of it all, for me personally.

So no, I wasn't motivated otherwise, wouldn't have been to 90% certainty and it's on that basis that I claim to have 'an investment' in what she did. An investment in psychological terms & in this case, kind of means the basis on which my faith is based ... so today I actually find myself, despite all the water that's gone under the bridge since 2006 when I first came to it, more challenged than ever to keep at it, as if the loss were more personal than just 'this woman'. I am actually seeking a 'self-help' bereavement cure because bereavement can take many forms including the loss of liberty, homeland, or identity as well as friends or family members.

And if this was more than an accident, God forbid it, but he wouldn't lets face it, then the implications for our freedoms are grim indeed, even the continuity of our work as 'Truthers' or w.h.y could be in some cases put seriously in jeopardy.

For me, a light actually went out, when she died, whether it be real, a representation of the real object or whether it be metaphorical, though I suspect by the way it feels and by a large margin, that it is the former. I sense deeply that things are not going to be the same in my relation to it all, and this is clearly evidenced already. Plus, the US military seem to be taking an awful lot of interest in my website since I started reacting to her death. 58 visits to my website this month where normally it would be about 2 hits. So something is undeniably going on and I actually believe I know a good deal more about it than I am going to divulge in this forum and at this point in time ....

"I've seen it happen to other people, and now it's happening to me." — Morrissey.

Trust me when I say, I sincerely wish I'd wake up tomorrow and find it had been all a nightmare; never had that problem with 9/11-truth before Friday 13th February, 2009!

So yes, it is quite personal now.

This post has been edited by Graeme: Mar 13 2009, 09:35 PM
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dMz
post Mar 13 2009, 10:01 PM
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QUOTE (Graeme @ Mar 13 2009, 07:18 PM) *
Plus, the US military seem to be taking an awful lot of interest in my website since I started reacting to her death. 58 visits to my website this month where normally it would be about 2 hits. So something is undeniably going on ....

Hi again Graeme,

With all due respect, welcome to the jungle...

Military Report: Secretly 'recruit Or Hire Bloggers'
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....showtopic=11687

Many of us have been at this "game" for a long time. See also post #9 here:
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....&p=10764527

Please remember that we have a Personal Message function here if you have questions or comments of a "sensitive" nature (to use the latest "PC" term that I remember). You could for example, click my username, and the PM function is the 2nd from the top as I recall FWIW.

Peace,
d
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albertchampion
post Mar 13 2009, 10:14 PM
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i lament the loss of all murdered. especially those i think to have been the victims of the secret state. and those who were unknowingly accompanying a target.

in this instance, if the catastrophe was caused to eliminate a passenger[as i think it was], the target was alison des forges. she knew things about secret state activities in africa. in a sense, she was a character who could have been/could be a subject of a le carre novel[similar to the constant gardener].

and i shall leave it there. i think your friend was an inadvertant victim. my condolences.

my guess is that the investigation of that accident will be a cover-up.

and that obombya will accelerate the establishment of africom. and that the us media will ignore that expansion of adventuring of amerikan imperialism.

still, the doctrine of two birds for one stone could have been the operative agenda.

when you get into the mindset of the secret state, any events can be made to occur.

i close this way, perhaps terminal icing was the cause. and the dash 8 tumbled in a flat spin. with zero forward momentum. anything is possible, i suppose. but this explanation just smells bad.

hey, i could be wrong. but i shall always think that alison des forges was on a little list. for the removals team.
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Graeme
post Mar 14 2009, 04:36 PM
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"I didn't choose this role, I feel that it chose me, it was fate." Beverly Eckert in 2004 on ABCNews.

I like level headedness, so I shall aim towards that, despite all my faults. I believe there is an ongoing effort possibly even re-launched very recently, to separate '9/11-Truthers' from the broader '9/11-Community' a term used by Mary Fetchet of 'Voices of September 11' in her Eulogy and Tribute to Bev Eckert on ABCNews. 14 Feb, 2009.
http://abcnews.go.com/Video/playerIndex?id=6878521

Now then. I just ran into this blogpost, just posted today March 14th which attempts to belittle the Truth Movement in direct relation to the Eckert Legacy.

http://notruerhearts.blogspot.com/2009/03/beverly-eckerts-view-of-911-truth-was.html

Followers of the so-called "9/11 truth movement" like to invent conspiracies and portray activists like Beverly as their allies. While some 9/11 survivors and family members do actually cross the line from the real world to the make-believe land of this fringe movement, Beverly Eckert never did. She had a clear-eyed, rational view of the world in which real terrorists hijacked real airplanes, crashed them, and caused unimaginable mayhem and destruction. Along the way there was also a long, sad trail of official incompetence, ignorance and duplicity. But Beverly avoided association with any person or group that smelled of conspiracy theories, whether it was a book, film, or website.
And after her death, the wild-eyed conspirators continued to have a field day, attributing the plane crash to sinister government designs, for example. Another thread of "truth movement" fiction involves Beverly's meeting with President Obama just days before her death. According to this groundless speculation, she had a secret request to make of the president: establish a new 9/11 commission to uncover the "truths" left buried by the original one. Beverly gave me a detailed account of her participation in the meeting, and her sole pleas to the president were to close the Guantanamo detainee facilities and to bring the 9/11 attack suspects to trail in the US.

http://notruerhearts.blogspot.com/2009/03/beverly-eckerts-view-of-911-truth-was.html

A sort of emotional Blackmail but I responded to that Blog & I hope my reply gets posted, if it doesn't here it is:-

PS (The Author of that Blog has since e-mailed me to say that he will publish the following e-mail despite his, like her 'abhorence' of conspiracy theories, adding that explosions happen all the time when buildings fall down. Well done lad; we'll have you out of that intensive care nursing home & sanitorium in no time now.)

Beverly sent me this e-mail in May, 2007.

Dear Mr. S×××××××××,

Your email was forwarded to me by Mary Fetchet of 'Voices of September 11th'.

It is with great reluctance that I am responding to you because I do not in any way subscribe to conspiracy theories about the 9/11 attacks nor do I believe that the collapse of my husband's building (the South tower) was brought about by pre-set detonations from within. However, the source of the explosion I heard has never been explained to my satisfaction.

I asked NIST to address it in their investigation, but I don't believe it was mentioned. You might want to check their report to confirm either way. I know that I once asked Dr. Shyam Sunder personally about it. He theorized that what I heard may have been the sound of the tower's water storage container on the roof exploding from the intense heat. If that were the case, it seems to me the floor just below the roof (where Sean was) would have also been extremely hot, since heat rises. Yet Sean was still calmly talking to me just before the explosion. Clearly, the area he occupied was not at furnace-like temperatures.

It is quite difficult for me on an emotional level to recount the events of that day so I would rather not speak about it with you. I hope this brief summary is satisfactory.

Beverly Eckert


I can provide a copy of the original (routing table) if you don't believe this.

I actually Believe Bev' was extremely intelligent, and she certainly was well educated, understanding that to reach the people in real positions of influence she would always have to tread their pathways, seeming always to remain mainstream and credible. Also, if one visits the official website of "Family Steering Committee for an Independent 9/11 Commission" you will see in the 'unanswered questions' section, all of and more of the same questions posed by this now defunct organisation she set up, aimed at specifically by name, Cheney, Wolfowitz, and the rest as have always been the backbone of issues behind the maligned 9/11-Truth Movement. Maligned for a simple purpose.

Well now, Mary Fetchet, who knows me & the remaining widows need to consider more openness to that movement, a tactical move which may prove to be a lifesaver & a reflection of the respect & solidarity that the entire '9/11-Community' as Mary referred to it in her Eulogy and Tribute to Beverly on ABCNews, would do well by each other to express, something I have always done.

EOF
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Ms Eckert took 7 whole months to reply to my enquiry, and you know what, I was really surprised when she did. I read the mail that day as I do now. She was opening up about the issues that her official line of enquiry could not touch upon. And I believe it was because she thought I might be able to shine some light on something she couldn't get NIST to look into, that she decided to respond to my specific enquiries about 'the explosion' that I pointed out to her had been removed from some BBC archived versions of 5th Anniversary Programming. I think I shall revive this thread enquiry.

Also up to this morning if you Googled 'Beverly Eckert' you'd get ~355,000 returns, and my unique Bev Eckert Testimony and research would come in at #15, right next to The Guardian UK's Tribute of Feb 14th, the only other report bar reproductions of my own in the world that critically reproduce mention of 'An Explosion' at or in the immediate vicinity of Floor 105, WTC2 at a moment immediately preceding the collapse of the tower. My Floor 105 Explosion article is also the URI Reference Used By PrisonPlanet.com to their #3-ranked Google Search results for a 'explosion floor 105 WTC2' enquiry, that goes to:- "9/11 Activist Who Sued Government Killed In Buffalo Plane Crash". I respect that outcome.

Plus, I'm doing a Bachelors degree in computing, and was going to be doing a unit in '9/11 Media Studies' until I became wary of the course, probably still paranoid there, but had premonitions of it being an intelligence gathering exercise.

"I know YOU want to go to heaven,
But YOU'RE just too afraid to die
.."

- Ozzy Osbourne thumbsup.gif

This post has been edited by Graeme: Mar 14 2009, 08:35 PM
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Omega892R09
post Mar 15 2009, 12:24 PM
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QUOTE (Graeme @ Mar 12 2009, 06:36 PM) *
http://notruerhearts.blogspot.com/2009/03/beverly-eckerts-view-of-911-truth-was.html

http://notruerhearts.blogspot.com/2009/03/beverly-eckerts-view-of-911-truth-was.html

Plus, I'm doing a Bachelors degree in computing, and was going to be doing a unit in '9/11 Media Studies' until I became wary of the course, probably still paranoid there, but had premonitions of it being an intelligence gathering exercise.

I would like to point out that attempts at visiting the site linked to brings up a red flag warning ACCESS DENIED from my internet security software warning that it is used to steal passwords, credit card numbers or other confidential data.
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Graeme
post Mar 15 2009, 01:48 PM
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QUOTE (Omega892R09 @ Mar 15 2009, 04:24 PM) *
I would like to point out that attempts at visiting the site linked to brings up a red flag warning ACCESS DENIED from my internet security software warning that it is used to steal passwords, credit card numbers or other confidential data.

Add to that the guy is a Oxford Educated Intellectual Div with a propensity to playing manipulative mind-games so I gave him one to really ponder upon ... he then comes back with 'I'm going to run to the authorities and tell on you'. Oh no, not 'The Authorities' again? Looks like I'll be getting that holiday in Gitmo-on-Sea after all ... Ooooh Yippee. Long live the Republic of Cuba, our favoured vacation destination.

I give up!

This post has been edited by Graeme: Mar 15 2009, 01:50 PM
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Graeme
post Mar 15 2009, 09:19 PM
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QUOTE (Graeme @ Mar 15 2009, 05:48 PM) *
I give up!


No really, the old ticker has seen enough of this for a while ...

I wrote this for Beverly and sent it to her colleagues and Family on 21 Feb.
I'm no Keats or Yates, so be warned and no heart surgeon either.

I’ve spent a week surfing a wave
that would have engulfed me,
had I not.

I had no idea of what it is that
Drove you so very strongly,
It was not my lot.

But soon enough I must return
to dry land or the rising swell will
take me too far out.

That wave will, must soon Passover
Me, or I too will be swept away
with you and lost.

You have moved on to another place
Where no mortals do walk in Grace.
And Yet I cannot?

Funny old thing the human psyche, not to be messed with, not to be taken lightly ...

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dMz
post Mar 18 2009, 08:29 AM
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Here are some specifications on the Bombardier Dash-8 (or Q400 now):

http://www.airliners.net/aircraft-data/stats.main?id=120
Powerplants
100 - Two 1490kW (2000shp) Pratt & Whitney Canada PW120A turboprops driving four blade constant speed Hamilton Standard propellers. 100B - Two 1605kW (2150shp) PW121As. 200 - Two 1605kW (2150shp) PW123Cs in 200A, or two PW123Ds in 200B.

Performance
100A - Max cruising speed 490km/h (265kt), long range cruising speed 440km/h (237kt). Initial rate of climb 1560ft/min. Range with full passenger load, fuel and reserves 1520km (820nm), range with a 2720kg (6000lb) payload 2040km (1100nm). 100B - Same except max cruising speed of 500km/h (270kt). 200A & 200B - Same except max cruising speed 546km/h (295kt). Initial rate of climb 1475ft/min. Range with 37 passengers 1795km (970nm).

Weights
100A - Operating empty 10,250kg (22,600lb), max takeoff 15,650kg (34,500lb). 100B - Operating empty 10,273kg (22,648lb), max takeoff 16,465kg (36,300lb). 200A & 200B - Operating empty 10,434kg (23,004lb), max takeoff 16,465kg (36,300lb).

Dimensions
Wing span 25.91m (85ft 0in), length 22.25m (73ft 0in), height 7.49m (24ft 7in). Wing area 54.4m2 (585.0sq ft).

Capacity
Flightcrew of two. Typical passenger seating for 37 at four abreast and 79cm (31in) pitch, max seating for 40.

Production
347 Dash 8-100s/-200s in service or on order at late 1998.

-----------------------------
See also:

http://www.aerospace-technology.com/projects/dash8/

Dash 8 Wiki
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/De_Havilland_Canada_Dash_8

Bombardier website
http://www.q400.com/q400/en/specifications.jsp

FAA Type Certificate Data Sheet A13NM
http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...13?OpenDocument

http://www.airweb.faa.gov/Regulatory_and_G...C0?OpenDocument
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dMz
post Mar 18 2009, 08:35 AM
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It looks like the preliminary NTSB info has been released (but you won't find much yet):

NTSB Identification: DCA09MA027
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/brief.asp?ev_id=2...13613&key=1

http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/GenPDF.asp?id=DCA09MA027&rpt=p

Accident Synopses by Month index
http://www.ntsb.gov/ntsb/Month.asp

Strangely, there were no Departure results found for Continental from Newark EWR at this BTS search page on 12 Feb 2009:
http://www.bts.gov/xml/ontimesummarystatis...paturesData.xml

Also, no Continental Diversions found:
http://www.bts.gov/xml/ontimesummarystatis...versionData.xml

nor Cancellations:
http://www.bts.gov/xml/ontimesummarystatis...llationData.xml

nor Airborne Time for anything Continental on 12 Feb 2009 (or 11 or 13 Feb 2009 either). Hmmm.
http://www.bts.gov/xml/ontimesummarystatis...AirtimeData.xml

NTSB Aviation page
http://www.ntsb.gov/aviation/aviation.htm

A passenger list and other information is available here:
http://aircrewbuzz.com/2009/02/dash-8-cras...to-buffalo.html
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Graeme
post Apr 2 2009, 08:26 AM
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Canadian Owned Bombardier in Belfast, Northern Ireland announce cuts of 1000 Jobs today. — Irish Times :

Last Updated: Thursday, April 2, 2009, 11:41

1,000 jobs to be lost at Bombardier in Belfast
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2009/0402/breaking33.htm
"Close to 1,000 jobs are to be lost at Bombardier Aerospace in Belfast, the company announced today.
The company, which is the world's third largest civil aircraft manufacturer, employs more than 28,000 people worldwide.
Bombardier is one of the largest private sector employers in Northern Ireland. It has 5,300 permanent staff and an estimated 900 sub-contractors employed at its facilities in Belfast.
The company produces about 10 per cent of Northern Ireland’s total manufacturing exports and has an estimated annual spend of almost £140 million among some 800 suppliers in Northern Ireland, Britain and the Republic.
Bombardier said today it is to reduce its global workforce by about 10 per cent, leading to the loss of 3,000 jobs at facitiles in Belfast, Canada, the US and Mexico by the end of the year."


Early last year a £500 Million injection and investement sought to re-envigure the company before the Globalist Recession kicked off big time. — Irish Times:

Last Updated: Sunday, July 13, 2008, 13:44

Bombardier's £500m NI investment welcomed
http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/breaking/2008/0713/breaking18.htm
Bombardier’s investment of more than £500 million in Northern Ireland that will see Belfast design and manufacture the wings for the aerospace company’s new aircraft has been welcomed by NI First Minister Peter Robinson and deputy First Minister Martin McGuinness.
The Ministers hailed the announcement as a tribute to a strong skill base and commitment to innovation.
Mr Robinson said: “This is fantastic news for East Belfast and Northern Ireland.”

So a rapid turndown there, just like Colgan 3407. Could there be a connection between not only failed or insufficient investment but also failing Confidence in Bomardier after Continental 3407's loss, with 9/11 Widow Eckert on board? That's how the Universe works after all, it's a question of the unseen failure in moral confidence hand in hand with potential safety/training shortcuts across the airline production sector that causes people to 'give up the ghost'. Why bother. "I give up", is the phrase I used in the other Colgan 3407 post for my inability to cope with this bad news. Believe you me, I'm not coping too well with my anger at all.

This post has been edited by Graeme: Apr 2 2009, 09:15 AM
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Graeme
post Jun 4 2009, 09:16 AM
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QUOTE (Graeme @ Mar 14 2009, 09:36 PM) *
"I didn't choose this role, I feel that it chose me, it was fate."
— Beverly Eckert in 2004 on ABCNews.

"I know YOU want to go to heaven,
But YOU'RE just too afraid to die
.."

- Ozzy Osbourne thumbsup.gif


Also I don't believe the guy at 'No Truer Hearts' was working in league with Eckert on this book he describes. I just don't believe it and it doesn't ring genuine or true, that's all.
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Graeme
post Jun 4 2009, 09:39 AM
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1)
French Aviation Security Website report of Frid 13th shows ILS intercept for Colgan 3407 was 2300'
... which is where the aircraft lost all contact with BUFFALO tower and when it disappeared from RADAR if I remember correctly ... can someone explain?
http://www.securiteaerienne.com/node/132

In my never ending search through a least 212,000 websites that have Eckerts' name associated with them now, I ran across this one at French 'Aviation Security'; it has an interesting image of the approach to Runway 23 at Buffalo airport for Colgan 3407:

The text associated with the image translates roughly as:
"ILS approach chart for Runway 23 Buffalo (NY). As the terrain is flat and without difficulties, the ILS ~(Instrument Landing System) intercept is at 2300 feet. This is one of the lowest encounters for an ILS approach."
I have absolutely no idea what that signifies but I think it means instruments don't get taken over by VOR or whatever ground based flybywire navigational aid and landing system until at 2300'). All the data I have seen shows that the aircraft disappeared at exactly 2300' altitude!


2) And this interesting if somewhat annoyingly boggling Blog on the subject of 'The Jersey Girls' and the 9/11 conspiracy:
http://stevenwarran.blogspot.com/2009/02/b...lag-jersey.html

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