Madeline Sweeney's Phone Call, Something strange
Nov 13 2006, 07:59 AM
Group: Valued Member
Joined: 20-October 06
Member No.: 117
I was researching the call allegedly made by Madeline Sweeney to American Airlines flight services and noticed something very strange. She witnesses the hijackers storming the cockpit at least seven minutes after radio contact with AA11 is lost. According to the following report by the Los Angeles Times, Sweeney was relaying the details of the men as they stormed the cockpit.
However, the first call she attempts to make is at 8:21am, which is three minutes after Betty Ong places her call claiming that the cockpit is not responding or answering their phone. According to the 9/11 Commission, Betty's call began at 8:18am.
Betty Ong was working coach and her position placed in the rear jump seat (3R). How could Betty be reporting that the cockpit was not responding and that the "door won't open" before Madeline actually witnesses the storming?
The claim that the passengers were unaware of a hijacking is also suspicious. Even with the coach and first class sections separated by curtains; bearing in mind how noise carries in a confined space such as an aircraft cabin, it is unlikely they would have been unaware of the commotion.
Also, Madeline Sweeney was positioned as working coach with Ong, and so something must have caught her attention to have her investigate the first class cabin. Would none of the passengers in coach have seen what was going on through the sides and beneath the curtain? Would they not have felt that something was amiss by Madeline's body language as she returned from first class?
If as Betty claimed, someone had been spraying mace in first class, it would take more than a mere curtain to keep this within the first class partition. This would have at least made the coach passengers a little wary. Considering repertory problems such as asthma are quite common, it seems strange that no one else would have been affected by the mace. Would the coach passengers not have seen any passengers coming back from business class?
It also seems strange that despite the plane suddenly lurching to the side before making a rapid decent this did not cause the coach passengers to think something was amiss. It's also surprising that none of the coach passengers heard Ong or Sweeney on the phone. Word's like "bomb" and "hijacking" are a surefire way to guarantee mass hysteria aboard a commercial aircraft. Listening to the recording of Betty's call, she's hardly exercising discretion while talking.
Again, the claim that the coach section passengers are still quiet, apparently unaware a hijacking is in progress just prior to the impact is very suspicious. Would none of the passengers have at least taken a look out of the window to see where they were? Wouldn't they think it strange that they were flying at full throttle right into Manhattan?
By carefully analyzing the information Madeline relayed to Michael Woodward, it implies that most, if not all of the hijackers, including the "bomb" and the pilots are in the cockpit. I'm sure a lot of pilots here will agree with me that it is a tight squeeze to fit maybe 3 people inside the cockpit, but 5-7 including a bomb seems to be pushing it a little.
This post has been edited by Beached: Dec 2 2006, 03:37 PM
Jan 18 2007, 06:25 PM
Group: Private Forum Pilot
Joined: 2-January 07
Member No.: 396
QUOTE (v2rot8 @ Jan 16 2007, 05:06 PM)
QUOTE (Culper721 @ Jan 2 2007, 11:06 PM)
May I ask how ANYONE is able to read past the 8:41am mark in Chapter 1 of the official report without concluding the entire story is metaphysically impossible?
"Truth is the agreement between knowledge and its object."
-- Immanuel Kant, Critique of Pure Reason
Uno absurdo dato, infinita sequuntur. -- One absurdity begin allowed, an infinity follow.
On AAL11...you have 21 people; 21 witnesses to a hijacking to be precise.
You have 7 witnesses from First Class and 14 witnesses from Business Class all huddled into Coach after witnessing stabbings, mace spraying, the bomb that Sweeney described, and the uh... oh yeah... the hijacking.
So, tell me, how were "passengers in coach ... under the impression that there was a routine medical emergency in first class?"
BETTY ONG: ...my name is Betty Ong. I’m number 3 on Flight 11.
MALE VOICE: Okay.
BETTY ONG: And the cockpit is not answering their phone. And there’s somebody stabbed in business class. And there’s . . . we can’t breathe in business class. Somebody’s got mace or something.
BETTY ONG: Okay. Our number 1 got stabbed. Our purser is stabbed.
According to Sweeney, this would be the two first-class flight attendants, Barbara Arestegui and Karen Martin.
TIMELINE 820 SWEENEY PHONE
BETTY ONG: Nobody knows who is stabbed who, and we can’t even get up to business class right now cause nobody can breathe. ...
XXXXXX---CROSS OUT BUSINESS CLASS ON THE SEATING CHART---XXXXXXX
"At 8:21, one of the American employees receiving Ong's call in North Carolina, Nydia Gonzalez, alerted the American Airlines operations center in Fort Worth, Texas, reaching Craig Marquis, the manager on duty. Marquis soon realized this was an emergency and instructed the airline's dispatcher responsible for the flight to contact the cockpit."
MALE VOICE: American Airlines emergency line, please state your emergency.
NYDIA GONZALEZ: Hey, this is Nydia at American Airlines calling. I am monitoring a call in which Flight 11 -- the flight attendant is advising our reps that the pilot, everyone’s been stabbed.
MALE VOICE: Flight 11?
NYDIA GONZALEZ: Yep. They can’t get into the cockpit is what I’m hearing.
NYDIA GONZALEZ: Have you guys gotten any contact with anybody? Okay, I’m still on with security, okay, Betty? You’re doing a great job, just stay calm. Okay? We are, absolutely.
MALE VOICE: Okay, we’re contacting the flight crew now and we’re . . . we’re also contacting ATC.
NYDIA GONZALEZ: Okay. It seems like the passengers in coach might not be aware of what’s going right now.
MALE VOICE: Who’s helping them, is there a doctor on board?
NYDIA GONZALEZ: Is there a doctor on board, Betty, that’s assisting you guys? You don’t have any doctors on board. Okay. So you’ve gotten all the first class passengers out of first class?
MALE VOICE: Have they taken anyone out of first class?
NYDIA GONZALEZ: Yeah, she’s just saying that they have. They’re in coach. What’s going on, honey? Okay, the aircraft is erratic again. Flying very erratically. She did say that all the first class passengers have been moved back to coach, so the first class cabin is empty. What’s going on on your end?
XXXXXX---CROSS OUT FIRST CLASS ON THE SEATING CHART---XXXXXXX
N.B. If the passengers in First Class were forced to the rear of the plane, and it wasn’t possible to breathe in Business Class, we're left with 21 witnesses from First & Business Class now in Coach. The same passengers who allegedly witnessed a bomb and bomb threat (Sweeney et. al.); the stabbings of the two first-class flight attendants, Barbara Arestegui and Karen Martin, the mace spraying and the storming of the cockpit. These passengers, rubbing their eyes (and possibly some with blood spattered clothes) are now ALL in Coach.
CIRCLE COACH on your diagram boys and girls, because that's where all the witnesses are.
All the witnesses and regular coach passengers magically become deaf dumb and blind for the entire 25 minute ride down to New York.
The plausible story ends five minutes before impact:
“At 8:41 am, Sweeney told Woodward that passengers in coach were under the impression that there was a routine medical emergency in first class. Other flight attendants were busy at duties such as getting medical supplies while Ong and Sweeney were reporting the events.36"
Unless “routine medical emergencies” consist of stabbings, mace sprayings forcing passengers and flight attendants to the rear of the plane, completely ignored by silent calm passengers who don't talk to each other for 25 minutes, the official story (of Flight 11 and the entire 911 plot) becomes a metaphysical impossibility five minutes before AAL11 impacts the North Tower.
The 767-200 seats either 121 passengers or 128 currently. There were not many people aboard that day. My experience is that passengers are pretty much oblivious to me, and I'm the damn flight attendant!
I've had medical emergencies where a passenger died on board (First class) and I was doing CPR. We were on the ground with ALL of the passengers on a 757. When we finally took off, I had a passenger who was seated in the back ask me why we were delayed, "what was the deal?"
Hello?!!!! A person DIED! On the floor, sprawled out and dead..the plane was filled with over 160 people, yet, some had no clue that some old dude with cancer died. Even though we had him stretched out on the floor in First Class. MmmmmKay?
Don't assume that passengers are aware individuals, 'cause honey, nothing could be further from the truth.
Funny; the same pool of individuals seems capable of feeling fear to the point of pissing their pants and granting the executive dictatorial powers in a protection racket format.
Regardless, maintaining that 21 of the passengers, sprayed with mace, witnesses to a homicide, bomb threat and hijacking, etc., would remain silent once forced back into coach is as implausible as Vincent Bugliosi accepting and believing Charles Manson's probationary claim that "he didn't do it."
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