Madeline Sweeney's Phone Call, Something strange Options

[Cary]

Fascinating posts v2rot8. Let me welcome you to the forum if I hadn't already.

Yes, most passengers are clueless about what's going on beyond a few rows away from them, unless something really loud happens. When I fly, I want to be left alone and not disturbed with what's going on in the plane. I usually have some form of entertainment with me (music, DVD player, computer, etc.). If it ain't happening to me, I don't care. So if the flight crew is keeping a hijacking quiet, I wouldn't know about it. If I was made aware of a hijacking, I'd probably be one of the dumbass "freakin' heroes" if I got the chance. LOL

[v2rot8]

Yes, there is an airphone in the back. It is located on the aft bulkhead. Betty could have been sitting in her jumpseat to use it. It has one of those retractable cords and it stretches for maybe 5 to 6 feet...I think.

And let's not forget that the "hijackers", who ever they were made an announcement over the PA instructing the passengers to stay calm or they would "endanger the plane and themselves" or something like to that effect.

And I am a clueless flyer as well. I think if you travel often, you tend to zone out when flying. I commuted for years and to this day, when I fly, I want to close my eyes and fall asleep! I can't tell you how many times I have had to be told to either put my traytable back and put my chair into it's "upright" position! How embarrasing!

I will read Betty's conversation with the SOC...which I just realized if she dialed out reservations code would have had to have been patched through to DFW. It may take me a while to get to it, cause I'm going to make some dinner and have a beer with my hubby!

[rob balsamo]

Oh, and the pepper spray/mace. The cockpit has the ability to control the air quality in the cabin. We have had spills in the cabin that were strong smelling (fingernail polish and such), and we called the cockpit and they flick some switches to try and help the smell dissipate.

Good to see you Gretchen. Happy New Year!

The above is correct. All we have to do it raise the cabin altitude a bit and it replaces all the air inside the cabin rather rapidly. Basically... it dumps all the air inside the cabin overboard and its replaced with fresh bleed air. Then we can close the outflow valve and descend the cabin back to normal.

Lets not forget the full face O2 masks in the cockpit as well.

Rob

[rob balsamo]

Lets also add here...

Ever seen a Cell phone work above 25,000 feet Gretchen? Cell phone.. not airphone...

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/cheers.gif)

[v2rot8]

Lets also add here...

Ever seen a Cell phone work above 25,000 feet Gretchen? Cell phone.. not airphone...

(IMG:http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/style_emoticons/default/cheers.gif)

Ahhh...cellphones, love'em, hate'em...forget to charge 'em. I have found my cellphone to be receiving a signal at just a bit past 10,000 feet ("bars, bars...I got bars!" is the sweet cry of any cellphone junkie, you know).

However, I've always turned it off. So, my answer is "nope". I should be going back to work sometime in February/March. If you will remind me, I will give it a whirl. I have some silly Quadband Motorola V phone thingy-do. I've often pondered and mused if the type of cellphone mattered when receiving signal...

My husband's phone is some 1999 circa-type Nokia phone and, hand to God, that thing gets THE best reception, and it was $25! We'll be in the boondocks and my bars are gone, but he is still receiving a signal!

[v2rot8]

Wow. Thanks for that information, v2. I've been trying to figure out what happened in the planes that day, and your knowledge of the cabins of the two planes involved could be very helpful. Please go to this link, which refers to Betty Ong's call:

http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidenc...11/BettyOng.jpg

Can you tell me, is there an airphone located in the back of the plane (767-223ER), not associated with any row of seats? Is that the phone Ong made her call from? The diagram isn't clear.

There was also a call made from the bathroom of UAL93 (different plane, 757-223) by Edward Felt. Could this call have also been made from such a back airphone?

Thank you. I'll have a lot of other questions in the future for you as well.

Depending on where UAL had their airphone positioned, it could have stretched to be in the bathroom.

If the airphone was positioned on the bulkhead just aft or forward of the lav, Mr. Felt could have been using it.

[v2rot8]

Oh, and the pepper spray/mace. The cockpit has the ability to control the air quality in the cabin. We have had spills in the cabin that were strong smelling (fingernail polish and such), and we called the cockpit and they flick some switches to try and help the smell dissipate.

Good to see you Gretchen. Happy New Year!

The above is correct. All we have to do it raise the cabin altitude a bit and it replaces all the air inside the cabin rather rapidly. Basically... it dumps all the air inside the cabin overboard and its replaced with fresh bleed air. Then we can close the outflow valve and descend the cabin back to normal.

Lets not forget the full face O2 masks in the cockpit as well.

Rob

Thank you, and Happy New Year to you, too!

Thank God you can explain that better than me! And yes, there are O2 masks in the cockpit. Whenever one of us goes into the cockpit to let one of you guys take care of your "physiological needs", we are required to don one. They are excellent for hang-ov....I mean headaches, too.

[andrewkornkven]

Lets also add here...

Ever seen a Cell phone work above 25,000 feet Gretchen? Cell phone.. not airphone...

I don't know if you've seen my post on the "Cell Phones Again" thread in the Research section, Rob. It turns out all the phone calls made from above 8,000 feet on 9/11 were made on airphones, not cell phones. That includes Tom Burnett's calls that I had previously thought were made on a cell phone. (It had been misreported in the media.)

[v2rot8]

Andrew, you're a rock star for researching the cell phone issue. Thank you. Additionally, I've added a new topic in the welcome section.

Anyone who has questions regarding the cabin crew and flts. 77 and 11, please PM me. I will answer to the best of my ability. Please understand that anything pertaining to procedures regarding sabotage and hijackings are federally protected and cannot be divulged. I could be fired, fined, thrown in jail or, possibly shot.

Okay, probably not shot, but then again...

[rob balsamo]

Lets also add here...

Ever seen a Cell phone work above 25,000 feet Gretchen? Cell phone.. not airphone...

I don't know if you've seen my post on the "Cell Phones Again" thread in the Research section, Rob. It turns out all the phone calls made from above 8,000 feet on 9/11 were made on airphones, not cell phones. That includes Tom Burnett's calls that I had previously thought were made on a cell phone. (It had been misreported in the media.)

I looked through it briefly just now. Renee May was from a Cell phone supposedly above 20,000 feet.

Tom Burnett's first call just shows his reported seat location. His other two calls specifically say that CAME FROM the other two seats. The first call was from a cell phone.. which was a call above FL350. Impossible in my opinion.

The Barbara Olsen call says 0 seconds.. but Ted Olsen said he spoke to her.

Many of the 'unknown calls' on AA77 were above 25,000 feet including Barbara Olsen's call which Ted first said was from a cell phone. .then changed his story when called on it several times.. You would think if they came from an airphone.. for that amount of time.. many several minutes in duration...it wouldnt be an 'unknown call'.

I'll look over the rest of them when i get a chance, i just looked over them briefly just now.. i think you may need to do more research Andy... but there is something very unusual about the calls... and i certainly dont trust anything out of the trial as evidence.


However, since there is such controversy on the calls.. i stick to the more obvious blantent cover-up's such as the FDR. Im wondering why you are trying so hard to prove the govt story for them Andy...

[andrewkornkven]

I looked through it briefly just now. Renee May was from a Cell phone supposedly above 20,000 feet.

Tom Burnett's first call just shows his reported seat location. His other two calls specifically say that CAME FROM the other two seats. The first call was from a cell phone.. which was a call above FL350. Impossible in my opinion.

The Barbara Olsen call says 0 seconds.. but Ted Olsen said he spoke to her.

Many of the 'unknown  calls' on AA77 were above 25,000 feet including Barbara Olsen's call which Ted first said was from a cell phone. .then changed his story when called on it several times.. You would think if they came from an airphone.. for that amount of time.. many several minutes in duration...it wouldnt be an 'unknown call'.

I'll look over the rest of them when i get a chance, i just looked over them briefly just now.. i think you may need to do more research Andy... but there is something very unusual about the calls... and i certainly dont trust anything out of the trial as evidence.


However, since there is such controversy on the calls.. i stick to the more obvious blantent cover-up's such as the FDR. Im wondering why you are trying so hard to prove the govt story for them Andy...

I am not trying to prove the government story, Rob. I've explained this before in detail. The phone calls being real DOES NOT support the government story. The phone calls indicate:

1. Guns on board, via Tom Burnett's and Betty Ong's calls; indicates a more sophisticated conspiracy than al-Qaeda.

2. Edward Felt's phone call telling of an explosion and white smoke; possible shoot-down, or bomb placed on board?

3. Amy Sweeney reporting a cockpit storming seven minutes after the transponder turned off; indicates a "fake" Arab hijacking as per a false flag.

4. Betty Ong reporting a hijacker coming from seat 9B, occupied by a professionally trained, Israeli commando.

All of these, Rob, are obviously NOT part of the government's story. I've gone through this before....

I show Renee May's cell call from AAL77 coming at 9:12. The transponder was turned off at 8:56. How do you know it was at 20,000 feet?

I don't know what you mean about Burnett's calls. The first call did not come from a cell phone. All his calls came from airphones. The seat location are not where he was sitting-- how would anyone know that? They are the locations of the seat holding the airphone. "Calls placed from 24ABC" That's obvious to me, Rob. Here is the link:

http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidenc...omasBurnett.jpg

The earliest of the "unknown" calls from AAL77 came at 9:15. As I noted, the transponder was turned off at 8:56. Again, how do you know the altitude? Is that someone's assumption?

I'll admit, Ted Olson's account is suspicious. Maybe one of the unknown calls was to him? Who knows. But this puzzle in itself should not throw doubt on the whole phone call body of evidence.

Like a lot of people, Rob, you're still fighting these calls tooth and nail. I don't know why-- they DO NOT support the official story.

This post has been edited by andrewkornkven: Jan 16 2007, 11:10 PM

[rob balsamo]

I show Renee May's cell call from AAL77 coming at 9:12.  The transponder was turned off at 8:56.  How do you know it was at 20,000 feet?

I don't know what you mean about Burnett's calls.  The first call did not come from a cell phone.  All his calls came from airphones.  The seat location are not where he was sitting-- how would anyone know that?  They are the locations of the seat holding the airphone.  "Calls placed from 24ABC"  That's obvious to me, Rob.  Here is the link:

http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidenc...omasBurnett.jpg

The earliest of the "unknown" calls from AAL77 came at 9:15.  As I noted, the transponder was turned off at 8:56.  Again, how do you know the altitude?  Is that someone's assumption?

The Flight Data Recorder provided by the NTSB. It records altitude and time.

I believe you have the full flight animation. Look at the altimeter at 0912. Its actually at 24,000 feet.. not 20.. my bad.

Fighting them tooth and nail? No... but im not trying to prove them by quoting the govt. They are odd.. plain and simple. I dont focus on them, there are other more damning issues regarding the govt story than the phone calls. But i will keep you in check every time you try to say the phone calls are 100% real when the fact is some are coming from altitudes i have never seen a cell phone work, before or after 9/11. But im sure another report will come out changing the story that Renee's call was from an airphone.. like it changed for the others.. and im sure you'll link that was well.

I know you're trying to fit these calls into some type of theory you have in which guns were smuggled on board and used by Zionists, that is why you want these calls to be real and why you are working so hard on touting the calls. But the fact is, you dont have to provide theory. The govt needs to prove theirs.

[Culper721]

Well-put, Culper.

I think the Sweeney and Ong calls deserve very careful scrutiny. 

Why Ong's RECORDED call must be redacted is hard to figure out. Certainly the given reason (sparing pain?) sounds a bit bogus.

You can't touch the phone calls until you've impeached the proponent of the evidence; demanding a showing of proof as to as to why the remainder of their story should be believed.

[Culper721]

May I ask how ANYONE is able to read past the 8:41am mark in Chapter 1 of the official report without concluding the entire story is metaphysically impossible?

"Truth is the agreement between knowledge and its object."

-- Immanuel Kant, Critique of Pure Reason

Uno absurdo dato, infinita sequuntur. -- One absurdity begin allowed, an infinity follow.

On AAL11...you have 21 people; 21 witnesses to a hijacking to be precise.

You have 7 witnesses from First Class and 14 witnesses from Business Class all huddled into Coach after witnessing stabbings, mace spraying, the bomb that Sweeney described, and the uh... oh yeah... the hijacking.

So, tell me, how were "passengers in coach ... under the impression that there was a routine medical emergency in first class?"

BETTY ONG:  ...my name is Betty Ong. I’m number 3 on Flight 11.

MALE VOICE: Okay.

BETTY ONG:  And the cockpit is not answering their phone. And there’s somebody stabbed in business class. And there’s . . . we can’t breathe in business class. Somebody’s got mace or something.

BETTY ONG:  Okay. Our number 1 got stabbed. Our purser is stabbed.

According to Sweeney, this would be the two first-class flight attendants, Barbara Arestegui and Karen Martin.

TIMELINE 820 SWEENEY PHONE

BETTY ONG:  Nobody knows who is stabbed who, and we can’t even get up to business class right now cause nobody can breathe. ...

XXXXXX---CROSS OUT BUSINESS CLASS ON THE SEATING CHART---XXXXXXX

Commission Report:

"At 8:21, one of the American employees receiving Ong's call in North Carolina, Nydia Gonzalez, alerted the American Airlines operations center in Fort Worth, Texas, reaching Craig Marquis, the manager on duty. Marquis soon realized this was an emergency and instructed the airline's dispatcher responsible for the flight to contact the cockpit."

MALE VOICE: American Airlines emergency line, please state your emergency.

NYDIA GONZALEZ:  Hey, this is Nydia at American Airlines calling. I am monitoring a call in which Flight 11 -- the flight attendant is advising our reps that the pilot, everyone’s been stabbed.

MALE VOICE: Flight 11?

NYDIA GONZALEZ:  Yep. They can’t get into the cockpit is what I’m hearing.

NYDIA GONZALEZ: Have you guys gotten any contact with anybody? Okay, I’m still on with security, okay, Betty? You’re doing a great job, just stay calm. Okay? We are, absolutely.

MALE VOICE: Okay, we’re contacting the flight crew now and we’re . . . we’re also contacting ATC.

NYDIA GONZALEZ: Okay. It seems like the passengers in coach might not be aware of what’s going right now.

...

MALE VOICE: Who’s helping them, is there a doctor on board?

NYDIA GONZALEZ:  Is there a doctor on board, Betty, that’s assisting you guys? You don’t have any doctors on board. Okay. So you’ve gotten all the first class passengers out of first class?

MALE VOICE: Have they taken anyone out of first class?

NYDIA GONZALEZ:  Yeah, she’s just saying that they have. They’re in coach. What’s going on, honey? Okay, the aircraft is erratic again. Flying very erratically. She did say that all the first class passengers have been moved back to coach, so the first class cabin is empty. What’s going on on your end?

XXXXXX---CROSS OUT FIRST CLASS ON THE SEATING CHART---XXXXXXX

N.B. If the passengers in First Class were forced to the rear of the plane, and it wasn’t possible to breathe in Business Class, we're left with 21 witnesses from First & Business Class now in Coach. The same passengers who allegedly witnessed a bomb and bomb threat (Sweeney et. al.); the stabbings of the two first-class flight attendants, Barbara Arestegui and Karen Martin, the mace spraying and the storming of the cockpit. These passengers, rubbing their eyes (and possibly some with blood spattered clothes) are now ALL in Coach.


CIRCLE COACH on your diagram boys and girls, because that's where all the witnesses are.

Problem?

All the witnesses and regular coach passengers magically become deaf dumb and blind for the entire 25 minute ride down to New York.

The plausible story ends five minutes before impact:

Commission Report:

“At 8:41 am, Sweeney told Woodward that passengers in coach were under the impression that there was a routine medical emergency in first class.  Other flight attendants were busy at duties such as getting medical supplies while Ong and Sweeney were reporting the events.36"

Unless “routine medical emergencies” consist of stabbings, mace sprayings forcing passengers and flight attendants to the rear of the plane, completely ignored by silent calm passengers who don't talk to each other for 25 minutes, the official story (of Flight 11 and the entire 911 plot) becomes a metaphysical impossibility five minutes before AAL11 impacts the North Tower.

The 767-200 seats either 121 passengers or 128 currently. There were not many people aboard that day. My experience is that passengers are pretty much oblivious to me, and I'm the damn flight attendant!

I've had medical emergencies where a passenger died on board (First class) and I was doing CPR. We were on the ground with ALL of the passengers on a 757. When we finally took off, I had a passenger who was seated in the back ask me why we were delayed, "what was the deal?"

Hello?!!!! A person DIED! On the floor, sprawled out and dead..the plane was filled with over 160 people, yet, some had no clue that some old dude with cancer died. Even though we had him stretched out on the floor in First Class. MmmmmKay?

Don't assume that passengers are aware individuals, 'cause honey, nothing could be further from the truth.

Funny; the same pool of individuals seems capable of feeling fear to the point of pissing their pants and granting the executive dictatorial powers in a protection racket format.

Regardless, maintaining that 21 of the passengers, sprayed with mace, witnesses to a homicide, bomb threat and hijacking, etc., would remain silent once forced back into coach is as implausible as Vincent Bugliosi accepting and believing Charles Manson's probationary claim that "he didn't do it."

[Culper721]

I show Renee May's cell call from AAL77 coming at 9:12.  The transponder was turned off at 8:56.  How do you know it was at 20,000 feet?

I don't know what you mean about Burnett's calls.  The first call did not come from a cell phone.  All his calls came from airphones.  The seat location are not where he was sitting-- how would anyone know that?  They are the locations of the seat holding the airphone.  "Calls placed from 24ABC"  That's obvious to me, Rob.  Here is the link:

http://911research.wtc7.net/planes/evidenc...omasBurnett.jpg

The earliest of the "unknown" calls from AAL77 came at 9:15.  As I noted, the transponder was turned off at 8:56.  Again, how do you know the altitude?  Is that someone's assumption?

The Flight Data Recorder provided by the NTSB. It records altitude and time.

I believe you have the full flight animation. Look at the altimeter at 0912. Its actually at 24,000 feet.. not 20.. my bad.

Fighting them tooth and nail? No... but im not trying to prove them by quoting the govt. They are odd.. plain and simple. I dont focus on them, there are other more damning issues regarding the govt story than the phone calls. But i will keep you in check every time you try to say the phone calls are 100% real when the fact is some are coming from altitudes i have never seen a cell phone work, before or after 9/11. But im sure another report will come out changing the story that Renee's call was from an airphone.. like it changed for the others.. and im sure you'll link that was well.

I know you're trying to fit these calls into some type of theory you have in which guns were smuggled on board and used by Zionists, that is why you want these calls to be real and why you are working so hard on touting the calls. But the fact is, you dont have to provide theory. The govt needs to prove theirs.

Legally speaking, I'd be far more interested in reading an analysis of Flight 11's vitals from wheels off runway 4R at 7:59am to 8:41am. Particularly the exact degree of turn at 8:14am, its altitude, the precise course & altitude followed until 8:21 and the same from 8:21 to 8:27am.

This is the only flight where the 911 Commission altered the map; extending the distance between Logan and the border of NY and MA by about 7 nautical miles. (grab a pair of dividers and check for yourself.)

ATC is three dimensional. From the transcripts and charts that plane did not turn 20 degrees right and it did not climb as ordered.

According to the ATC's I've spoken with, the intercept clock starts as of the first indication AAL11 was NORDO; and with AAL11 flying off course through congested air space without so much as entering a holding pattern only shortens the requisite response time for the ordering of an intercept; LONG before 8:21am when it reached the primary radar gap and turned off its transponder.

[JackD]

Yes, there is something odd about Ong and Sweeney calls.
in fact, MUCH about AA11 doesnt make sense -- timeline, calls, radio, transponder, NORAD response, etc.

almost as if someone thought that AA11 was part of that day's hijacking drills....

[Quest]

I agree that some of them did witness the violence and hijacking. But they were probably ordered by the hijackers to remain silent as they were sent to the back of the plane. Given the circumstances, they probably thought it wise to obey. They probably considered it their best strategy to keep calm and quiet while they assumed the plane would eventually land somewhere as do most hijackings.

A few things about your take on this Andy....

1. I have yet to see what you are basing your opinion on.

2. If they they were hijackers that were possible Israeli agents, what about the other suppossed flights? What happened to AA77 that the official story says hit the pentagon? What about the the supposed 1st and 2nd tower strike planes? Where they commandeered by suppossed hijackers or Israelis also?

Andy wrote...

I think what we often deal with with respect to the phone calls is what I call LCD: that stands for Loose Change Disease. This is a condition that results from people who watch the film Loose Change, then decide that everything suggested by the two young producers must be the absolute gospel truth. As far as I am concerned, just about everything in that film works as pure disinformation. That includes not only the suggestions that the calls are faked, but also that FL93 landed in Cleveland; that AAL77 did not hit the Pentagon; that 9/11 was another Operation Northwoods, etc. (By the way, Northwoods never happened; it was just somebody's idea.)

Strange Andy. Loose Change also goes into the controlled demolitions of 3 buildings. You seem to have forgotten to mention them. Is that disinformation as well, that is, the controlled demolitions of WTC1,2 and 7?

This post has been edited by Quest: Mar 20 2007, 11:29 AM

[andrewkornkven]

1. I have yet to see what you are basing your opinion on.

2. If they they were hijackers that were possible Israeli agents, what about the other suppossed flights? What happened to AA77 that the official story says hit the pentagon? What about the the supposed 1st and 2nd tower strike planes? Where they commandeered by suppossed hijackers or Israelis also?

I am basing my opinions on an intensive analysis of the records of the phone calls from the planes, as well as some research into Israel's record of false flag attacks in the past, including the 1967 attack on the USS Liberty which cost the lives of 34 American sailors.

One of the objections to accepting the phone calls as legitimate evidence is that there would have been screaming in the background during the calls. While I do not believe every single phone call was authentic (Todd Beumer's seems to have been staged) I do believe most of them are real and can be used to recreate what happened on the flights. I am simply trying to show why I do not believe there necessarily would have been screaming and hysterics in such a situation.

I believe the same method of operation was used on all four flights; and if AAL11 was hijacked by Israeli commandos disguised as Arabs, then that would have been the case on the other three flights. Though it puts me in a minority on this particular forum, I believe AAL77 did hit the Pentagon, but not of course while being piloted by Hani Hanjour.

Strange Andy. Loose Change also goes into the controlled demolitions of 3 buildings. You seem to have forgotten to mention them. Is that disinformation as well, that is, the controlled demolitions of WTC1,2 and 7?

Remember, the best disinformation includes some truth as well.

The segment on controlled demolitions of the WTC towers in Loose Change is excellent. Too bad that segment is surrounded on both sides by shoddy science and half truths-- like that UAL93 landed in Cleveland, or that the phone calls from the planes were faked.

[Obwon]

Good to see you Gretchen. Happy New Year!

The above is correct. All we have to do it raise the cabin altitude a bit and it replaces all the air inside the cabin rather rapidly. Basically... it dumps all the air inside the cabin overboard and its replaced with fresh bleed air. Then we can close the outflow valve and descend the cabin back to normal.

Lets not forget the full face O2 masks in the cockpit as well.

Rob

Just reading, not really intending to comment. But, while this offer is agreeably true, I just feel compelled to ask you to factor in: Is this a reasonable thing to expect in the middle of a skyjacking? How would the flight deck know to freshen the air?

Obwon

[albertchampion]

there were no phone calls made from any of the purported hijacked aircraft that day.