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United 93 Still Airborne After Alleged Crash - According To Atc/radar, PilotsFor911Truth.org

woody
post Apr 25 2009, 04:48 PM
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Woody Box


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Admin Edit: Article merged with original posts from United 93 Forum section. Article is posted below.


I'm still in the process of gathering evidence that the radar blip beyond Shanksville which was believed to be Flight 93 by every controller, supervisor, and official, was a real plane and not just an artefact on the Traffic Situation Display. (This TSD theory is promoted by the govt loyalist site, Cheap Shot aka Colin Scoggins, Lynn Spencer etc.). And there is plenty of evidence.

But what I found now is so far-reaching, and in the light of Domenick's findings and the shootdown discussion I think it's helpful to make it public right now. It's a transcript within the FAA Command Center, between the National Traffic Management Officer, East Position ("ntmo-e") and Doug Davis of the Operations Center ("doug"). I've highlighted the relevant parts.

1405 (10:05 a.m.)

ntmo-e: ok united ninety three we're now receiving a transponder on and he is at eighty two hundred feet

doug: now transponder and he's eighty two-hundred

ntmo-e: southeastbound still

doug: eighty two hundred feet and now getting a transponder on him

ntmo-e: correct

doug: ok buddy

10:06

ntmo-e: ok we've lost radar contact with united ninety three
doug: all right

10:07

ntmo-e: sixteen south of Johnstown where they lost united ninety three and it was heading turning one four zero heading

doug: which will put him to what do you think

ntmo-e: uh I guess that put him down coming right just west of Dulles

doug: ok

ntmo-e: if he stays on that heading of course

doug: how we doing John with getting stuff on the ground

ntmo-e: uuhh we're the're not the're still going to their original destinations if you look at TSD you'll see that the eastern part of the unites states is thinning out

doug: ok

ntmo-e: uh you know airports like dulles uh new york there we have no aircraft going into there

doug: ok

10:08

ntmo-e: ok uh there is now on the on united ninety three

doug: yes

ntmo-e: there is now a report of black smoke in the last position I gave you fifteen miles of Johnstown

doug: from the airplane or from the ground

ntmo-e: uhh they're speculating it's from the aircraft

doug: ok bud

ntmo-e: uhh who hit the ground that's what they're speculation it's speculation only

doug: ok

10:10

doug: hey john

ntmo-e: yes

doug: do we have anything on delta nineteen eighty nine is she still heading to cleveland?

ntmo-e: delta nineteen eighty nine was returning to Cleveland and they were no longer treating it like a hijacked aircraft

doug: ok

ntmo-e: I don't know if he's landed ok; the last position of united I'm going to give some coordinates united ninety three

doug: yes

ntmo-e: three nine five one north zero seven eight four six west

doug: zero seven eight four six

ntmo-e: west

doug: west

doug: all right

ntmo-e: you got the thirty nine fifty one north

doug: ya thirty nine fifty one north zereo seven eighty four six west

ntmo-e: that's the last known position of united ninety three

http://www.scribd.com/doc/14141827/NYC-B1-...-Fdr-Transcript

SUMMARY:

United 93 switched on the transponder at 10:05 (two minutes after its alleged crash), and the transponder indicated an altitude of 8200 ft. It is heading southeast.

One minute later, at 10:06, radar contact with United 93 is lost, at the position 39,51 north, 78,46 west. This point is about 13 miles southeast of the crash site.

This is the death of the TSD theory. An extrapolated radar blip (without an underlying plane) is hardly capable of switching the transponder on, is it?

There can be no doubt that United 93 did not crash at Shanksville.

This post has been edited by rob balsamo: Apr 28 2009, 11:40 AM
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rob balsamo
post Apr 28 2009, 11:37 AM
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United 93 Still Airborne After Alleged Crash - According To ATC/Radar

04/28/09 (PilotsFor911Truth.org) - Recently it has been brought to our attention that Air Traffic Control (ATC) transcripts reveal United 93 as being airborne after it's alleged crash. Similar scenarios have been offered with regard to American 77 and American 11 showing an aircraft target continuing past its alleged crash point in the case of American 11, or past the turn-around point in the case of American 77. However, both these issues can be easily explained by "Coast Mode" radar tracking. This is not the case with United 93.

Radar Coast Mode activates when a transponder is inoperative (or turned off) and primary radar tracking is lost, which enables ATC to have some sort of reference of the flight after losing radar coverage of the physical aircraft. When an aircraft target enters "Coast Mode", ATC is alerted in the form of a blue tag on the target as well as the tag letters switching to CST. ATC will readily recognize when an aircraft enters "Coast Mode".

According to National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB) Flight Path Study, United 93 allegedly impacted the ground at 10:03am, September 11, 2001. The following transcript excerpts are provided by the Federal Aviation Administration. It is a conversation between Air Traffic Control System Command Center - East, Management Officers (ntmo-e) and other various facilities. The conversation is as follows in real time:

(relevant portions have been placed in bold)


1405 (10:05 a.m.)

ntmo-e: ok united ninety three we're now receiving a transponder on and he is at eighty two hundred feet

doug: now transponder and he's eighty two-hundred

ntmo-e: southeastbound still

doug: eighty two hundred feet and now getting a transponder on him

ntmo-e: correct

doug: ok buddy

10:06

ntmo-e: ok we've lost radar contact with united ninety three
doug: all right

10:07

ntmo-e: sixteen south of Johnstown where they lost united ninety three and it was heading turning one four zero heading

doug: which will put him to what do you think

ntmo-e: uh I guess that put him down coming right just west of Dulles

doug: ok

ntmo-e: if he stays on that heading of course

doug: how we doing John with getting stuff on the ground

ntmo-e: uh we're they 're not they 're still going to their original destinations if you look at TSD you'll see that the eastern part of the unites states is thinning out

doug: ok

ntmo-e: uh you know airports like dulles uh new york there we have no aircraft going into there

doug: ok

10:08

ntmo-e: ok uh there is now on the on united ninety three

doug: yes

ntmo-e: there is now a report of black smoke in the last position I gave you fifteen miles of Johnstown

doug: from the airplane or from the ground

ntmo-e: uh they're speculating it's from the aircraft

doug: ok bud

ntmo-e: uh who hit the ground that's what they're speculation it's speculation only

doug: ok

10:10

doug: hey john

ntmo-e: yes

doug: do we have anything on delta nineteen eighty nine is she still heading to cleveland?

ntmo-e: delta nineteen eighty nine was returning to Cleveland and they were no longer treating it like a hijacked aircraft

doug: ok

ntmo-e: I don't know if he's landed ok; the last position of united I'm going to give some coordinates united ninety three

doug: yes

ntmo-e: three nine five one north zero seven eight four six west

doug: zero seven eight four six

ntmo-e: west

doug: west

doug: all right

ntmo-e: you got the thirty nine fifty one north

doug: ya thirty nine fifty one north zero seven eighty four six west

ntmo-e: that's the last known position of united ninety three

Full Transcript Here


United 93 transponder is recognized by Air Traffic Control as airborne after alleged impact time. Some have made the excuse this is due to Coast Mode tracking. ATC did not recognize any signs of CST (Coast Mode). Further confirmation that this was not any type of "Coast Mode" is that ATC also recognized United 93 reporting an altitude. The only way ATC could observe a reported altitude is if United 93 were squawking Mode C on the transponder, which means altitude reporting capability. Further confirmation comes in the form of latitude and longitude positions reported by ATC. N39 51 - W78 46 were reported as the last known radar position of United 93. It is unclear if the position is reported as Degrees, Minutes or Decimal, however, standard aviation terminology is in Degrees, Minutes. With that said, both positions are well past the alleged United 93 Crash site.


(click image to enlarge)

It is impossible for ATC to have observed United 93 transponder and altitude after the reported impact time and southeast of the crash site, if United 93 did in fact crash in Shanksville as the 9/11 Commission would have you believe.

Pilots For 9/11 Truth is an organization of aviation professionals from around the globe. The organization has analyzed Flight Data provided by the National Transportation Safety Board (NTSB). The data does not support observed events. See Pandora's Black Box - Chapter Three - Flight Of United 93 for full in depth analysis of United 93 Flight Data Recorder (Black Box) data provided by the National Transportation Safety Board. The NTSB/FBI refuse to comment. Pilots For 9/11 Truth Core member list continues to grow.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core.html for full member list.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/join to join.

Comments? Discuss this article here
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum//index....showtopic=17064

Other Articles Of Interest:

Conflicting Data, Hardcore Questions and the Media Blackout
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/media_blackout022908.html

United 93 Press Release
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/UA93_Press_Release.html

Special thanks to "woody" for alerting us to this issue.

###
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woody
post Apr 28 2009, 03:53 PM
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Woody Box


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I have another argument against the "coastal track" theory.

The official story tells us that UA93 crashed at Shanksville, that its radar sign went into coastal modus, and that the controllers did not recognize the coastal status but thought the plane was still airborne.

Is this plausible? As I understand it - correct me if I'm wrong: IF a plane drops the transponder or goes off radar, its signal changes to coastal modus, BUT the controllers are able to identify the coastal track as a coastal track and will no misinterpret it as a real plane!

Here's the account of Mark Barnick, who was a supervisor at Cleveland Center. He refers to 9:41, after UA93 had completed its U-Turn over Cleveland and switched off the transponder for the first time:

UAL93's transponder was then lost or shut off and the radar tag went into coast. Other aircraft in the area verified that they had visual ontact with UAL93 and that it was still flying southeastbound. In order to follow the aircraft, John Werth started a new flight following tag on UAL93's primary radar target. No altitude information was available and all other controllers were advised to keep all aircraft well away from the target of UAL93.

http://911woodybox.blogspot.com/2008/12/cl...r-memos-on.html

Obviously the controllers realized immediately that UA93's radar tag "went into coast" and started tracking the primary target. Why didn't they recognize the coastal status at 10:03 then?
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Cheap Shot
post May 4 2009, 10:59 PM
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QUOTE (woody @ Apr 26 2009, 06:53 PM) *
Is this plausible? As I understand it - correct me if I'm wrong: IF a plane drops the transponder or goes off radar, its signal changes to coastal modus, BUT the controllers are able to identify the coastal track as a coastal track and will no misinterpret it as a real plane!

Obviously the controllers realized immediately that UA93's radar tag "went into coast" and started tracking the primary target. Why didn't they recognize the coastal status at 10:03 then?


It takes a couple of minutes for a track to switch to a coast track, it will free track for a little bit then switch to caost, very recognizable though when it does. Where the digitized target symbol is the coast track will show a # sign, when in free track a triangle will appear over the target symbol, free tracks occur when the aircraft is outside of its flightplan limitations. When it is flat tracked it will show a diamond shape over the target.

The TSD is only updated when the aircraft is generating a flat track. In a free track the flightplan will normally continue on its last known heading and speed. Someone looking at a TSD would not know without slewing over the TSD track and clicking for additional information whether the track is flat or free. Watching the TSD someone could assume that the aircraft is still flying its track.

Someone watching the actual radar display would first see a free track with no target, loss of altitude infromation, and eventually the track would turn into a coast track, and just float until the edge of the scope.
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Posts in this topic
- woody   United 93 Still Airborne After Alleged Crash - According To Atc/radar   Apr 25 2009, 04:48 PM
- - rob balsamo   Good work Woody. From my understanding, a coast m...   Apr 25 2009, 05:10 PM
|- - woody   QUOTE (rob balsamo @ Apr 25 2009, 09:10 P...   Apr 25 2009, 05:59 PM
- - rob balsamo   If it were in coast mode, ATC wouldnt have been ab...   Apr 25 2009, 06:35 PM
- - rob balsamo   United 93 Still Airborne After Alleged Crash - Acc...   Apr 28 2009, 11:37 AM
|- - woody   I have another argument against the "coastal ...   Apr 28 2009, 03:53 PM
|- - Cheap Shot   QUOTE (woody @ Apr 26 2009, 06:53 PM) Is ...   May 4 2009, 10:59 PM
|- - FreshKills   QUOTE (Cheap Shot @ May 4 2009, 10:59 PM)...   Aug 6 2010, 06:58 PM
|- - rob balsamo   QUOTE (FreshKills @ Aug 6 2010, 06:58 PM)...   Aug 6 2010, 08:30 PM
- - Domenick DiMaggio CIT   RE: United 93 Still Airborne After Alleged Crash - According To Atc/radar   Apr 29 2009, 02:00 AM
|- - brian78046   QUOTE (Domenick DiMaggio CIT @ Apr 29 2009, 0...   May 6 2009, 10:07 PM
|- - Kesha   QUOTE (brian78046 @ May 7 2009, 02:07 AM)...   Jun 1 2009, 04:13 PM
- - Enver   In my book "9/11 Unveiled" I concluded t...   May 4 2009, 11:01 AM
- - datars   Nice!   May 4 2009, 01:55 PM
- - peaches   The following website may prove to be a tremendous...   May 5 2009, 02:36 AM
- - dMole   Thank you peaches. There are several threads abou...   May 5 2009, 02:44 AM
- - IRIQUOIS227   The impact site of alleged impact site of United 9...   May 5 2009, 12:23 PM
- - aerohead   The 93 story is such a joke for anyone with a brai...   Aug 1 2009, 07:59 AM
- - LaBTop   Woody, and Rob and others, In this thread there a...   Jul 8 2010, 11:46 AM
- - LaBTop   In your Board Message article regarding : United 9...   Jul 8 2010, 07:36 PM
- - rob balsamo   Hi LaBTop, Yes, we bolded the sentence "16 m...   Jul 8 2010, 08:13 PM


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