9/11: World Trade Center Attack - Official Release! Options

[ECHO]

Question please :
By using the Naudet movie for AA11, and the other available sequences for UA175, have you ever considered estimating on your own the speed of those airplanes ?
Probably someone who knows well New-York, could try something by using goole earth ...
Thanks for your excellent work.

[albertchampion]

some posts ago, someone mentioned the silence of the aviation industry. why has that been? was a question proposed.

how can i explain it to you? the aviation industry is tied to the warmongering industry. the commercial aviation industry[hell even general aviation] sucks at the teats of the state. joust with the man and you might just become unhorsed. and in the era of the patriot act, such an unhorsing can subject you to arrest, imprisonment, and confiscation of your assets.

do you think that is sufficient to effect blanket silencing?

but i don't think you even need the chilling effect of the patriot act[sedition act] to impose silencing. let us consider the backgrounds of most commercial aircraft pilots[bus drivers]. i could be wrong about the demographics these days, but my guess is that the majority of them are ex-military. ex-military is sort of like ex-cia. there are no ex'es. these individuals are tied to the state. they believe in the supremacy of the state. and even if they don't, they are scared shitless as to what the state can do to them and their families[irs audits, etc].

if you doubt me on this, let us consider 747's after the investigation into TWA800. you know the official theory concerning the cause of that catastrophe. odd isn't it that no crews that i have heard of have refused to fly 747's with the fuel pump wiring unreconfigured. so, the conclusion must be that the pilots of 747's know that the official theory of that catastrophe is a crock. but, do you hear any 747 pilots stating that publicly? of course not. i think that their contracts would cause them immediate severance were they to make such statements.

let us consider a catastrophe that i examined in some detail. AS261. i never interviewed a dc9, md80 pilot that thought the ntsb's findings were anything other than a crock. yet, i never met one who would go on the record with that appraisal. they were all terrified by what the state could do to them if they went public with their professional indictment of that "official conspiracy theory".

let us consider AOPA and FLYING magazine. terrified to death to do anything to contradict the "official conspiracy theory" concerning the events of 11/09/01. and other aviation catastrophes.

i must admit that i have been quixotic in my life. and have jousted with the secret state in federal court on at least two occasions. and i must admit that one cannot triumph over the secret state. it is a rigged table. much younger, when i did that jousting, i didn't realize that there was no such thing as "justice" when the secret state was involved.

some hundreds of years ago, ben franklin reportedly said, "a republic. if you can keep it."

in my view, abraham lincoln stole the republic. and that theft has continued. the more salient thieves have been woodrow wilson, franklin roosevelt, harry truman, and all the successors.

eisenhower, in what must have been a day after frightening nightmares, did tell us about the financial criminals[military industrial complex]. sadly, he did nothing to prohibit the prolongation of that puppeteering.

the window for marshalling the tumbrils, erecting dr guillotine, is closing[has closed]. the remotely-controlled aircraft will be deployed against the population in the usa within the next 24 months.

a republic. if you can keep it. long lost. though most haven't noticed.

somerecnev!

[localbod]

"9/11: WORLD TRADE CENTER ATTACK" analyzes the events which took place in New York City on the morning of the 11th of September 2001. Analysis includes Black Box Recovery, Radar and Speed data analysis, Aircraft Control, and "Hijacker" Pilot Skill. Interviews with 757/767 Captains from United and American Airlines.



Order today in our DVD Section.

Rob just wanted to say thank you for all your efforts with this site and trying to get to the truth behind 911. Even now the scale and necessary complicity by government agencies U.S. or otherwise still blows me away.i suppose its a similar mental reaction to natural phenomena or beauty - your eyes are showing you reality but your brain cannot match the visual input to previous experience or your mental map of how we think the world is?
I was made redundant last year and thinks are tight for me but as soon as funds permit i will be ordering a copy of World Trade Center Attack. i watched the taster and thought that what Ralph and yourself had produced was very comprehensive and explanatory regarding how aircraft behave in the real world without being patronising.Also i thought the visual representation of the truck through a gas station was a great way for the average guy in the street to be able to relate to.Some of it was very technical but that is the foundation of the argument especially when your getting into the speeds of the hijacked aircraft and the physics of it all etc... and i did get a bit lost.
So i need to get myself a copy and watch it over and over until i do understand!
Due to all of the death ,misery and destruction acted out on the back of this horrendous act on september 11th i have made a point of questioning and informing as many people as i can to the realities and inconsistencies of that tragic day. I doubt the truth will come out in my lifetime but one day they will release archives etc.. if they still exist and just as with the second world war people will be able to find out what decisions were really made and by who.
For me the pilots among you are the only people who could really understand whether or not any or none of those four aircraft could have been flown as described by the NTSB and the flight data recorders they say they have.You guys bring that gravitas to these issues.
Thanks again for all your work it is inspiring , respect localbod.

[rob balsamo]

Thanks for your support localbod!

Also, we now have the presentation available with the full uncut interviews with Capt Kolstad and Aimer.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/wtca_dc

[sennaha]

Thanks for your support localbod!

Also, we now have the presentation available with the full uncut interviews with Capt Kolstad and Aimer.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/wtca_dc

I think Pilots For 9/11 Truth Forum should be debunked. Too many holes in your theories!

This is from me, a major airline captain in the NYC area, as well as many peers at my, and other NYC airlines.
AA airlines 757 did in fact hit the Pentagon. Ask the families, and friends of the Captain and First Officer.

One bonus for you is you got many sheep to follow you. Its always good to question the government, I agree. I'm sure there are many things that go on that are down right shady, unethical, and unlawful. This is however just a drama show.

TWA 800 was one that seemed plausible for something else being the culprit. (Plausible!)

[albertchampion]

i think major airline captains in the nyc area should identify themselves. name, rank, serial #, aircraft qualified to fly, aircraft that have been flown. how many hours.

you know, the whole career schmeer, captain.

especially when such a captain makes this kind of a post.

[albertchampion]

oh, and even more to the point, since i have found airline company bus drivers to be remarkably reticent to publicly express themselves concerning the events of that day, and other days involving airliner catastrophes, perhaps you would be so responsible as to deliver to this site the names and ranks[the cv's] of all those captains, first officers, et alia to whom you are referring.

this would be a great gift to the inquiry, don't you know.

for the first time, some of you could enter into the lists so that a real conversation could be conducted with professionals.

looking forward to learning of your bona fides and your willingness to be more than a once in a lifetime interjector.

[zoeken]

i think major airline captains in the nyc area should identify themselves. name, rank, serial #, aircraft qualified to fly, aircraft that have been flown. how many hours.

you know, the whole career schmeer, captain.

especially when such a captain makes this kind of a post.

I am with you Albert. Who IS this guy?? (or gal??)

I don't know jack about flying a plane, but the videos are obvious to me...so how could a major airline captain not see the discrepancies???

In P4T I trust

[paranoia]

AA airlines 757 did in fact hit the Pentagon. Ask the families, and friends of the Captain and First Officer.

the specific people you mention could be helpful in trying to ascertain that those 2 people (pilot and 1st officer) no longer exist in the life they once shared with their loved ones, and may in fact no longer be alive at all (and if you have access to people who knew them, please by all means share with us what they have to say). but to find out if a plane did or did not hit the pentagon, you'd be better off talking to witnesses to that event, wouldnt you agree? if so, then perhaps you could start here: http://youtu.be/j5FhQc-LJ-o


***

I am with you Albert. Who IS this guy?? (or gal??)

I don't know jack about flying a plane, but the videos are obvious to me...so how could a major airline captain not see the discrepancies???

In P4T I trust

assuming the poster is actually the same "sennaha" that google finds on aviation forums, then he is allegedly a "retired EMB-145" pilot (link). plus he is posting here via an airline's corporate ip, so chances are that he is indeed involved with aviation in some capacity or other. but you dont have to be a pilot (a shrink maybe but a pilot - no) to see why he is looking in the wrong place to find an answer to the pentagon impact/non-impact question. the presumably sad emotions of the loved ones of the victims is a motivating factor for why i pursue the truth, but it isNt where i look for answers to physical facts.

[23investigator]

I think Pilots For 9/11 Truth Forum should be debunked. Too many holes in your theories!

This is from me, a major airline captain in the NYC area, as well as many peers at my, and other NYC airlines.
AA airlines 757 did in fact hit the Pentagon. Ask the families, and friends of the Captain and First Officer.

One bonus for you is you got many sheep to follow you. Its always good to question the government, I agree. I'm sure there are many things that go on that are down right shady, unethical, and unlawful. This is however just a drama show.

TWA 800 was one that seemed plausible for something else being the culprit. (Plausible!)

Dear Sennaha

This is not a responce to your post --on behalf of P4T-- but totally my own.
As a responsible airline 'Captain' you would not have got there with out a lot of flying time, and identifying aircraft.
As you have indicated, you live in the NYC, I would think that would give you a good perspective to the proportions of the two "ex" world trade centre towers.

I have placed a video on YouTube under 23investigator, which shows the proportions of the aircraft which is claimed to have impacted tower two.

Could I ask you to respond, as to what aircraft you consider to be shown in the video.

Robert

[23investigator]

Another excellent video!

I think the ridiculous picture of the 767 breaking the speed of sound, would make a great avatar.
...or cover picture on the final DVD, as most of the video was about impossible speed.

The analogy of driving through a mini lube at 150 miles an hour, really hits home.

I am wondering what was the maximum to minimum possible speeds,
that the planes could have been going, when they hit the towers,
did they both fly in at the same speed, by any chance?

...just some thoughts.

Dear Lunk

A very good thought.

Robert

[23investigator]

Review from Ralph "Rotten" Kolstad via email and with permission to post.



Ralph is also featured as a Consultant and interviewed in this presentation.

Commander Kolstad experience and credentials as follows:

Ralph “Rotten” Kolstad
23,000 hours
27 years in the airlines
B757/767 for 13 years mostly international captain
20 years US Navy flying fighters off aircraft carriers, TopGun twice
civilian pilot flying gliders, light airplanes and warbirds

Dear Mr Balsamo

As a favour to me, could you ask Commander Kolstad, if he ever counted the number of slots in the 'main wheels' of his Boeing 767 200/s, it would be helpful to know.

thanks

Robert

[sennaha]

"i think major airline captains in the nyc area should identify themselves. name, rank, serial #, aircraft qualified to fly, aircraft that have been flown. how many hours.

you know, the whole career schmeer, captain.

especially when such a captain makes this kind of a post. "

PM me. I would be glad to give you plenty of names, and ranks. I don't fancy posting names of pilots from American, Continental, etc, etc. for your whim. It would be pretty disrestpectful. I was based in EWR at the time of the attacks. My old job, flying the E145. I have moved on 6 years ago and now am based in JFK and current. Why don't you ask any airline pilot in NYC. You get to talk to many pilots in this industry. I know plenty of names, rank, etc. Serial #, I have no clue what that refers to. Maybe employee number, which is a number you wouldn't remember but your own. I'm not really sure the total hours I have, but I'm sure its above 9000. (just a guess, and a number I can care less.)
Why don't you look into the airspeed the aircraft hit the towers? According to the author, the speeds where impossible. HOGWASH. Mach's were totally achievable. I'm sure the MMO exceeded, but nothing supersonic or impossible to maintain in a descent for a short period of time.

[rob balsamo]

"i think major airline captains in the nyc area should identify themselves. name, rank, serial #, aircraft qualified to fly, aircraft that have been flown. how many hours.

you know, the whole career schmeer, captain.

especially when such a captain makes this kind of a post. "

PM me. I would be glad to give you plenty of names, and ranks. I don't fancy posting names of pilots from American, Continental, etc, etc. for your whim. It would be pretty disrestpectful. I was based in EWR at the time of the attacks. My old job, flying the E145. I have moved on 6 years ago and now am based in JFK and current. Why don't you ask any airline pilot in NYC. You get to talk to many pilots in this industry. I know plenty of names, rank, etc. Serial #, I have no clue what that refers to. Maybe employee number, which is a number you wouldn't remember but your own. I'm not really sure the total hours I have, but I'm sure its above 9000. (just a guess, and a number I can care less.)
Why don't you look into the airspeed the aircraft hit the towers? According to the author, the speeds where impossible. HOGWASH. Mach's were totally achievable. I'm sure the MMO exceeded, but nothing supersonic or impossible to maintain in a descent for a short period of time.

Welcome to the forum Sennaha.

Perhaps you know one of our Core members? He is Senior to you at JFK.

Jeff Latas
-Over 20 years in the USAF
--USAF Accident investigation Board President
--Flew the F-111, T38, and F-15E
--Combat experience in the F-15E includes Desert Storm and four tours of duty in Northern and Southern Watch
--Weapons Requirements Officer, USAF HQ, Pentagon
--Standard and Evaluations Flight Examiner, Command level
-Currently Captain for JetBlue Airways

The rest of our core members you can find here.
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core.html

As to the speeds....

Do you feel an aircraft can maintain control and stability at Vmo+150, Va+220 --and pull G's-- out of a 10,000+ foot dive, while rolling on G's cranking into a 38 degree bank, to hit a target with less than a 25' margin for error - for a pilot with less experience than one who couldn't control a 172 at 65 knots?

If so, would you be willing to put your name to such a claim?

You'll be the first, as there is a growing list of Aeronautical Engineers, Pilots, Aircraft Accident Investigators, NASA Engineers and even Boeing themselves, who disagree with you.

Really, click it.
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core

Also, you may want to familiarize yourself with EAS and the purpose for Vmo/Mmo limitations.

Here is a refresher for you. Click.

[sennaha]

Welcome to the forum Sennaha.

Perhaps you know one of our Core members? He is Senior to you at JFK.

Jeff Latas
-Over 20 years in the USAF
--USAF Accident investigation Board President
--Flew the F-111, T38, and F-15E
--Combat experience in the F-15E includes Desert Storm and four tours of duty in Northern and Southern Watch
--Weapons Requirements Officer, USAF HQ, Pentagon
--Standard and Evaluations Flight Examiner, Command level
-Currently Captain for JetBlue Airways

The rest of our core members you can find here.
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core.html














As to the speeds....

Do you feel an aircraft can maintain control and stability at Vmo+150, Va+220 --and pull G's-- out of a 10,000+ foot dive, while rolling on G's cranking into a 38 degree bank, to hit a target with less than a 25' margin for error - for a pilot with less experience than one who couldn't control a 172 at 65 knots?

If so, would you be willing to put your name to such a claim?

You'll be the first, as there is a growing list of Aeronautical Engineers, Pilots, Aircraft Accident Investigators, NASA Engineers and even Boeing themselves, who disagree with you.

Really, click it.
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core

Also, you may want to familiarize yourself with EAS and the purpose for Vmo/Mmo limitations.

Here is a refresher for you. Click.

Please. I was never a sim instructor, but I'm sure you can ask many 121 airline sim instructors to demonstrate the 9/11 attacks in the Level D sim. they instruct in. I can attest to flying in the sim some years back and had some fun after a sim event. 500KTS low fly by over the numbers, right down the runway, less than 50 feet off deck. The sim. would actually be harder because of the lack of dimension and clarity as well. I remember the day 9-11-2001. I remembered thinking even before the second plane hit, how clear it was. One of the clearest days one could ever have. I read you calculated mach 1.19 for a speed of one of the planes. The speed of sound at sea level is approx. 650KTS. How did you get 510KTS = Mach 1.19? (maybe at 30K ft.
You my friend should expland your horizons to more than ONE experienced pilots view.

[rob balsamo]

Please. I was never a sim instructor, but I'm sure you can ask many 121 airline sim instructors to demonstrate the 9/11 attacks in the Level D sim. they instruct in. I can attest to flying in the sim some years back and had some fun after a sim event. 500KTS low fly by over the numbers, right down the runway, less than 50 feet off deck.

Check Airman Dan Govatos Attempts 9/11 Attacks in Simulator


Dan Govatos quals -
Chief Pilot of Casino Express airlines
Director of Operations Training at Polar Air
Cargo, and Asst. Chief Pilot for Presidential Air
Manager of Flying for Eastern Airlines
Falcon 900 and a G-200
Check Captain
B737,A300, Da-50, G-200 and C-500
FE, A&P.

Simulator performed by Capt Rusty Aimer
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=20969


Capt Rusty Aimer Quals -
United Airlines, Retired
B-777/767/757/747/737/727/720/707, DC-10/-9/-8 Type ratings
Command time in:
- N591UA (Aircraft dispatched as United 93)
- N612UA (Aircraft dispatched as United 175)

Capt Ralph Kolstad interview including simulator discussion.
http://pilotsfor911truth.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=18114

Capt Ralph Kolstad quals...
23,000 hours
27 years in the airlines
B757/767 for 13 years mostly international Captain with American Airlines.
20 years US Navy flying fighters off aircraft carriers, TopGun twice
civilian pilot flying gliders, light airplanes and warbirds
Command time in:
- N644AA (Aircraft dispatched as American 77)
- N334AA (Aircraft dispatched as American 11)

With that said, a simulator is a Cockpit trainer. It does not accurately depict aerodynamics outside the aircraft envelope, that is why wind tunnels and flight tests are used to determine such aircraft limitations.

You should ask your Check pilots (more importantly, ask the sim techs) if your sim has crash logic enabled for excessive speeds over Vmo. Many sims do not and the airspeed will just "wrap around" (as described by Capt Kolstad in his interview above). Sims that do have such logic enabled freeze and the visuals go red when exceeding Vmo by a small margin, usually near Vd. I've seen it myself after completing the sim module for the day with time left.

Do you feel someone who was refused to rent a 172 because he couldn't control it at 65 knots could fly your sim with zero time in type at "500KTS low fly by over the numbers, right down the runway, less than 50 feet off deck" ?? If so, are you willing to put your name on such a claim as did the pilots above on their claims?

I remember the day 9-11-2001. I remembered thinking even before the second plane hit, how clear it was. One of the clearest days one could ever have.

I remember it well also. I was based LGA and scheduled for a trip. I am also from Long Island, and know many pilots from/based NYC who disagree with you. Jeff Latas being one of them. They disagree with you because they have analyzed and researched the data. Perhaps you should as well.

I read you calculated mach 1.19 for a speed of one of the planes. The speed of sound at sea level is approx. 650KTS. How did you get 510KTS = Mach 1.19?

EAS. Please view the presentation.

(maybe at 30K ft.

Actually, 22k.

510 knots at sea level produces the same dynamic pressure effects as 1.19M at 22,000 feet. Watch the presentation.

How can you possibly "debunk" an argument you haven't even reviewed?

You my friend should expland your horizons to more than ONE experienced pilots view.

The list of pilots and aviation professionals who understand aerodynamics, EAS, the reason for Vmo/Mmo limitations and control/stability/structural issues is much more than "one" and growing.

http://pilotsfor911truth.org/core

Photos here...
http://patriotsquestion911.com/pilots

Anytime you wish to answer my questions, feel free. Thanks!

Also, are you on the Bus?

[onesliceshort]

Just for once, I'd like to see any alleged pilots who come here offhandedly dismissing claims to actually watch the dam presentations or at least familiarize themselves with what the counterevidence actually is. Not swagger in like John Wayne, insult the owner and the forum and pick through which arguments they can generalize over and waffle about (ie bullshit). Sennaha, your "sim" argument went down the plughole in one post.

You're comparing your joyride sessions in a sim to VMO charts, precedent and pilots with apparently much more savvy than yourself (watch the video, read the links, inform yourself. Please.).

The transcript can be found here if you can't be arsed. What struck me more than anything was the "controlability" section, particularly because I'm a layman.

Even this "sheep" knew what EAS was (you've been repeating the same misinfo over at ATS since January!). And I can't even fly a kite!

[rob balsamo]

Even this "sheep" knew what EAS was (you've been repeating the same misinfo over at ATS since January!). And I can't even fly a kite!

Sennaha is from ATS?

lol...

No wonder he is uninformed.

ATS has banned every single representative of P4T who spent some time to register there. (I also caution those who wish to visit their forum as it is loaded with malware. This is where "duhbunkers" and we agree. You would be wise to clear your cache after each visit on ATS, or dont visit it at all...)

However, I will give Sennaha some credit, at lease he has the backbone to come here and debate the topic with an actual opponent (albeit he clearly doesn't want to publicly put his name to his claims as of yet, i dont blame him), instead of libeling us on another forum in which all those being libeled have been banned and cannot defend themselves.

Now all he needs to do is actually review the topic in full.

He may be a pilot, but he clearly hasn't reviewed the data, our presentation, or the Core member list.

[sennaha]

Sennaha is from ATS?

lol...

No wonder he is uninformed.

ATS has banned every single representative of P4T who spent some time to register there. (I also caution those who wish to visit their forum as it is loaded with malware. This is where "duhbunkers" and we agree. You would be wise to clear your cache after each visit on ATS, or dont visit it at all...)

However, I will give Sennaha some credit, at lease he has the backbone to come here and debate the topic with an actual opponent (albeit he clearly doesn't want to publicly put his name to his claims as of yet, i dont blame him), instead of libeling us on another forum in which all those being libeled have been banned and cannot defend themselves.

Now all he needs to do is actually review the topic in full.

He may be a pilot, but he clearly hasn't reviewed the data, our presentation, or the Core member list.

I am not from ATS. I really don't even know what website that acronym that is for. I might have made one post on the sight after watching your video about the airspeeds, and the 75-76 not being able to physically do what clearly happened in front of thousands of people.

I get mad at some of the information that is posted. I personally know pilots that were friends with these pilots that lost they're lives on that day.
Actual pairing numbers, actual aircraft, actually pushing off the gate with unsuspecting passengers just living they're lives in this short but important world we build for ourselves. Like I said, it is good to question information that our media, government tells us. We should be weary. This is too far gone for your built up theories to pass the any litmus test science has to offer. If anything, you give me motivation to get in contact with many of the sim instructors that simulated this not long after the event took place. So, debate may be good.
I would post my name, but I don't need the brain damage. I have enough on my own plate of life, to be honest. However, if someone would like to pm me and contact me, I would be more than open, as long as the debate would one on one with respect that wouldn't lead to an aggravating future.

This post has been edited by sennaha: Jul 5 2011, 05:02 PM

[Aldo Marquis CIT]

Sennaha,

You are arguing from personal incredulity. Your posts are dripping with emotions...namely anger. Your emotions are mixed with sheer disbelief. None of it, including who you claim to know, represents counter evidence to the findings presented by PFT. I suggest you take some time to not only do some research on this topic but also the pentagon attack and shanksville alleged crash, and not only that of PFT but the evidence obtained by Citizen Investigation Team.

Right now you look absolutely foolish. And if this is any representation of your eye for details then I pray for those who fly with you.