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McDonnell-Douglas F4 Phantom II, Vietnam era Fighter/Bomber

dMz
post Sep 23 2009, 12:14 AM
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References
http://www.fas.org/programs/ssp/man/uswpns.../f4phantom.html
QUOTE (FAS F4 page)
Primary Function All-weather fighter-bomber.
Contractor McDonnell Aircraft Co., McDonnell Corporation.
Power Plant Two General Electric turbojet engines with afterburners.
Thrust 17,900 pounds (8,055 kilograms).
Length 62 feet, 11 inches (19.1 meters).
Height 16 feet, 5 inches (5 meters).
Wingspan 38 feet, 11 inches (11.8 meters).
Speed More than 1,600 mph (Mach 2).
Ceiling 60,000 feet (18,182 meters).
Maximum Takeoff Weight 62,000 pounds (27,900 kilograms).
Range 1,300 miles (1,130 nautical miles).
Armament Four AIM-7 Sparrow and four AIM-9M Sidewinder missiles, AGM-65 Maverick missiles, AGM-88 HARM missile capability, and one fuselage centerline bomb rack and four pylon bomb racks capable of carrying 12,500 pounds (5,625 kilograms) of general purpose bombs.


http://www.globalsecurity.org/military/sys...t/f-4-specs.htm

http://www.military.cz/usa/air/post_war/f4/f4_en.htm
QUOTE (military.cz F4 page)
Thrust (with afterburner) 17,900 lb 79,6 kN
Max. speed 1,485 mph 2390 km/h
Initial climb rate 49,800 ft/min 15 180 m/min
Ceiling 62,250 ft 18 975 m
------------------------------------------------
Range normal 595 miles 958 km
maximum 1,885 miles 3034 km
------------------------------------------
Weight empty 29,535 lb 13 397 kg
max. takeoff 61,650 lb 27 964 kg
-------------------------------------------
Wingspan 38.4 ft 11,71 m
Length 63 ft 19,2 m
Height 16.5 ft 5,03 m
Wing area 530 sq. ft 49,24 sq. m


EDIT:
http://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/de...?aircraft_id=24

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/F-4_Phantom_II

Some photo collections:
http://www.f4phantoms.co.uk/

http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices/galle...mages/f4/f4.htm

And one for O892:

http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices/galle...c12-1389-11.htm
http://www.boeing.com/companyoffices/galle...c12-1389-11.jpg
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Omega892R09
post Sep 23 2009, 06:48 AM
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QUOTE (dMole @ Sep 21 2009, 02:14 AM) *
And one for O892:

Ooooh! I have come over all nostalgic.
thumbsup.gif
I was there man and knew that cab [1] intimately and have a few shots of my own.

[1] We in the RN referred to a/c as cabs, the light blues (crabs) RAF called them kites but to Shelton I would think they are ships.

I could provide some more data if required. I have an excellent monograph on the Phantom II which covers its history from prototype and speed runs such as Sageburner and covers all variants with all operators. There is also a detailed break down of weapons loads with many drawings of weapons including iron bombs and Paveways. There were some exotic upgrades proposed by the Israeli's.

But I doubt any of that will add to the weight of argument already arrived at by Rob and CIT research. If you think otherwise I'll give it some thought.
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Omega892R09
post Sep 23 2009, 12:37 PM
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More carrier shots, and a whole lot more, at:

Phantom F4K, Fleet Air Arm. Royal Navy.

and

Sea Vixen. Royal Navy. Carrier Jet.
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aerohead
post Sep 23 2009, 09:51 PM
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Love it !

My name was on the right side of the Canopy of 69-0277.

And i was there the day they were retired from active duty.
March 26 1996, from the 561st Fighter SQ.

Idaho ANG retired the rest in April 96.


Im in this picture, can you find me ? tongue.gif

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aerohead
post Sep 23 2009, 10:00 PM
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After we retired them they became QF-4 unmanned target drones.




This post has been edited by aerohead: Sep 24 2009, 06:30 AM
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aerohead
post Sep 24 2009, 06:46 AM
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I catch myself being proud of my service,
then i remember that the first gulf war was
just a precursor to 9/11 fraud and the agenda that
is destroying our country.

Its still hard sometimes to wrap my head around the
big picture and break away from the brainwashing
surrounding the middle east wars and what daddy
Bush was really talking about when he said "new world
order" so many times.

Im not so proud anymore. But those Phantoms sure
were some great planes. And i loved them. But i sure
do hate the ones who have ruined my memories and
tarnished my honor.

I will have justice for these bastards, i swear it before
everything Holy.
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Omega892R09
post Sep 24 2009, 06:54 AM
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QUOTE (aerohead @ Sep 22 2009, 09:46 AM) *
But those Phantoms sure were some great planes. And i loved them.

Me too.

I had some 'interesting' adventures whilst carying out engine test runs on those 'ornery Phantom Spey engines with their rapid re-heat and tendency for a 'banger' if a fault condition resulted in an initial overfuel condition in the jet pipe, spewing out clouds of unburned vaporised AVCAT around the tail which would then suddenly ignite with a huge 'WHOOMPETTA' jerking you forward into the instrument panel. I once blew a large plate of steel off the back end of Fly 4 on Ark Royal (which americans always called Royal Ark for some reason laughing1.gif ) whilst doing such runs in the dog hours whilst floating around somewhere in the North Atlantic.
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aerohead
post Sep 24 2009, 04:05 PM
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QUOTE (Omega892R09 @ Sep 24 2009, 05:54 AM)
Me too.

I had some 'interesting' adventures whilst carying out engine test runs on those 'ornery Phantom Spey engines with their rapid re-heat and tendency for a 'banger' if a fault condition resulted in an initial overfuel condition in the jet pipe, spewing out clouds of unburned vaporised AVCAT around the tail which would then suddenly ignite with a huge 'WHOOMPETTA' jerking you forward into the instrument panel. I once blew a large plate of steel off the back end of Fly 4 on Ark Royal (which americans always called Royal Ark for some reason laughing1.gif ) whilst doing such runs in the dog hours whilst floating around somewhere in the North Atlantic.


laughing1.gif

Oh yes, had many hours of standing 20 feet (to the side of course)
from the tailpipe at burner, whilst our phantoms were shackled by the
tail-hook. That was enough to loosen ANY dental work that wasnt done
up to par.

I remember nights in the hush house, when we would turn out all the lights
and then light the burners................ and just stare at the rings in the torches.
And those J-79's would suck in air through the wall slots of the hush house so fast
that any moisture in the air would instantly freeze and create snow.....at 80 deg out side air temps.
The only time i ever saw snow in Vegas biggrin.gif
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maturin42
post Sep 24 2009, 10:03 PM
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QUOTE (Omega892R09 @ Sep 21 2009, 09:48 AM) *
[1] We in the RN referred to a/c as cabs, the light blues (crabs) RAF called them kites but to Shelton I would think they are ships.


I most often heard it referred to as the "lead sled", and as an air-to-ground platform it was derided by those of us who strapped our aircraft (the A-4) on as opposed to climbing in to sit in front of that other guy that always had to tag along. Of course they always talked about how fast they could go, like that was a big deal. They sure were noisy - as a matter of fact, so was the airplane!
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Omega892R09
post Sep 25 2009, 10:47 AM
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QUOTE (aerohead @ Sep 22 2009, 06:05 PM) *
laughing1.gif

Oh yes, had many hours of standing 20 feet (to the side of course)
from the tailpipe at burner, whilst our phantoms were shackled by the
tail-hook. That was enough to loosen ANY dental work that wasnt done
up to par.

The Spey engine was no where near ready for the job when the first F4Ks came off the McDonnell production line there having been cock-ups by Min-Tech over here where they failed to give Rolls the correct specs for bolter accelerations.

As the Vietnam War was in full flood Speys as were were fitted to get them across the pond and then we guys in uniform had to sort out the mess. Consequently I found myself straight in at the deep end off the maintenance courses at Rolls (Derby) for the engines and at Yeovilton for the airframes.

Rolls were forever coming up with a new standard of engine working the the colours of red (standard), yellow, green and blue like a pack of fruit pastilles.

Many were the hours of toil and sweat, working many more hours in a day than normal and through weekends too [1], rolling out and in engines and carrying out a hundred and one other modifications (MODS) on the airframe including changes to the routing of the flying control hydraulic systems as a result of US experience in Vietnam. You were losing many because of AA tail hits knocking out all hydraulic systems.

On one occasion having modified a fuel flow valve, in the nozzle actuator circuit, on the underside just forward of the tailpipe it was necessary to lie on ones back just underneath with a bit of cotton waste in ones hand and then signal for full re-heat (after burner) whilst watching for likes. One had to be in position first because the vibration was such that ones powers of muscle motor control were all but lost.

QUOTE
I remember nights in the hush house, ...

I guess that is what we called de-tuners or silencers although they were anything but silent. Sounded like wailing banshees across the countryside as we worked through the nights.

In truth we just didn't have enough silencers to cope with the volume of full power runs required whilst detached ashore in short periods of time, sometimes didn't even have enough tie down points which would lead me on to another couple of 'adventures', maybe some other time.

I did so many engine changes and power runs all those years ago that I figure I could do any one again just like that without having to read up first.

[1] That was whilst on NASU (Naval Aircraft Support Unit) at RNAS Yeovilton [1a]. We were working so many extra hours that the management were embarassed and decided that we could claim one hours extra leave for every unsocial hour worked. I had built up a solid bank of 2 weeks due by early 1970 and had with an unusual quiet spell had put in for the leave. Instead I got drafted to 892 Squadron in time for their work up and again it was all hands to the pumps so my leave fell through the gaps left by the melting ockum.

[1a] RNAS Yeovilton and not RAF Yeovilton (a real Argh! Grrr! thing for an FAA bod) as in 'McDonnell F-4 Phantom Spirit of the Skies', Jon Lake and David Donald editors which I recommend if you have not already got it. You will love it:

McDonnell F-4 Phantom: Spirit in the Skies

The dust jacket of my copy is different to that shown though.
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chek
post Oct 14 2009, 04:32 PM
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You've probably seen all this before Omega, but if not I thought you'd appreciate some video.
I suspect it's from that series long before domestic video was available that culminated in Pete'n'Dud'n'Joanna being launched off the bow cat.

F-4K traps on Ark Royal

Professional or what?

(The Buccs are just an added bonus:)

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Omega892R09
post Oct 15 2009, 07:35 AM
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QUOTE (chek @ Oct 12 2009, 07:32 PM) *
You've probably seen all this before Omega, but if not I thought you'd appreciate some video.
I suspect it's from that series long before domestic video was available that culminated in Pete'n'Dud'n'Joanna being launched off the bow cat.

F-4K traps on Ark Royal

Professional or what?

(The Buccs are just an added bonus:)

Thanks for dropping that in here. I do have that sequence amongst my DVD collection but it is always good to see it again.

What you don't get is the feel of the grit laden wind and the smells of burning AVCAT and boiler room FFO fumes.

That bridge wing where the FLYCO controllers were had a walkway on top and I shot three of the images in this composite, one whilst in the tail of a hurricane off Cape Hatteras:



We often experienced bigger seas than seen there with 'green ones' coming down the for'ard lift well and breaking on into our hangar deck.

One of the worst was a night passage through the Pentland Firth (between north Scotland and the Orkney Islands) and then down through The Minch (Outer Hebrides) during a force 11-12. As we descended into some deep troughs ten foot plumes of water were shooting out of the two dozen traps (seats of ease in days of old) in the junior rate's heads on 4 deck forward - I was there when it happened as our heads on 2 deck were out of action. There was a chap sat on one and I heard his cries of , 'Oh No! Oh! No!, being choked off by a spluttering noise. Who needs a bidet? laughing1.gif

This post has been edited by Omega892R09: Oct 18 2009, 11:31 AM
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ULTIMA1
post Oct 18 2009, 09:56 AM
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Hey guys i was a crew chief on RF-4Cs at RAF Alconbury from 1981 to 1983.

This post has been edited by ULTIMA1: Oct 18 2009, 09:57 AM
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ULTIMA1
post Feb 13 2011, 03:08 PM
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Hey guys, can we keep this thread going?
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Omega892R09
post Feb 14 2011, 02:01 PM
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QUOTE (ULTIMA1 @ Feb 11 2011, 06:08 PM) *
Hey guys, can we keep this thread going?

OK Did you notice that open 'door' atop and aftish of the engine nacelle bulge on 002 (02:33 on video linked by chek), have you any idea what that is about?

That last F4 trap (007) was a touch hard. He was lucky to get away without bursting any tyres. But then by that stage (the ECM fits atop the fin came after my period on the squadron) the tyres had been re-designed following our experiences in the early period. Turbulence across the round-down sometimes caused a hole in the air through which they fell , especially in hot and humid conditions. I recall that we had periods where tyre bursting heavy landings were so frequent that we had used up all spare U/C doors having also resorted to patch repairs of these where practicable - which was not that often as most of the metal disappeared overboard in a cloud of shrapnel, also laced with bits of tyre. Several times I made it into the catwalk just in time. After a few one got the feel for a muffed approach and hitting the catwalk became a reflex action.

I recall trimming replacement doors for my second heavy lander of the watch when I heard the words of the civilian boffin on arrestor wire test monitoring equipment on deck being coming over the speakers alongside his colleague in the hanger with the 'five miles downwind' being heard followed shortly by a terrific crash and much noise overhead. The civie' up top was now screaming '..there's bits and pieces flying about and people rushing in all directions. One F4 had just sunk into the round-down.

When it finally arrived in the hangar we could see that its arrestor hook, a huge titanium forged beam, had been slammed up into the rear fuselage with such force that the deck hook damper had been forced up out of its upper mounting, and the hook was bent. There were of course no U/C doors left nor hydraulic or pneumatic pipes on the U/C struts themselves - this was all too common, I frequently had to make up new pipe runs to fit to effect a repair.

But, the most spectacular damage was to the wing tips - these were buckled to hell - this without having hit anything. The shock of the U/C impact had sent strong vibration waves along the spars and out to the tips. This is visual evidence that makes me suspect the nature of ANY aircraft alleged to have been involved in 9/11. The bits at the ends suffer catastrophic damage when the main sections hit something hard.
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ULTIMA1
post Feb 15 2011, 08:29 AM
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QUOTE (Omega892R09 @ Feb 12 2011, 05:01 PM) *
OK Did you notice that open 'door' atop and aftish of the engine nacelle bulge on 002 (02:33 on video linked by chek), have you any idea what that is about?


Yes, on the British F-4s with Rolls Royce engines the door you are refering to is an Auxilliary Air Door.

Do you know where they are on the American version with GE engines?
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ULTIMA1
post Feb 15 2011, 08:39 AM
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QUOTE (Omega892R09 @ Feb 12 2011, 05:01 PM) *
This is visual evidence that makes me suspect the nature of ANY aircraft alleged to have been involved in 9/11.



Well there are a few things i question about 9/11, such as.

The official story states that the nose of an airliner punched through to the 3rd ring of the Pentagon.

Now you and i both know what radomes are made of and there is no way that it could have punched through to the 3rd ring, it would have been destroyed on impact.
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Omega892R09
post Feb 15 2011, 01:47 PM
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QUOTE (ULTIMA1 @ Feb 13 2011, 10:29 AM) *
Yes, on the British F-4s with Rolls Royce engines the door you are refering to is an Auxilliary Air Door.

Spot on. thumbsup.gif

QUOTE
Do you know where they are on the American version with GE engines?

I don't think they had aux-air doors.

Here is an underside view I shot some time in 1971



The starboard lower aux-air door is ringed in cyan. Up in that hole was the 'starter bay' containing a small (about the size of an Electrolux cylinder vacuum cleaner but much heavier.) Gas Turbine Starter engine (Plessey Solent) that rotated at 72k RPM and kicked out 95 shp. These were troublesome and often decided to spew their guts out in a display of flame, sparks and smoke.

One dark night on the line ashore at Yeovilton, at the time Rolls Royce had rolled over because of RB211 trouble, we were working flat out trying to get some troubled Spey engines to run up to self sustaining RPM. The only available spares were in transit to the Ark Royal ready for our forthcoming deployment and these could not be requisitioned by we mere mortals.

The engine trouble included several that had coked up burners - due to the AVCAT we used which burned dirtier. The fix for this was to connected a special pressure rig up to the burner manifold and pump in a wax based solvent known as LIX - the procedure being known as a LIX wash. After a designated soak period attempts were made to run the engine up to self sustaining and then carry out the full power range checks - with and without flaps (with full and half selections chosen alternatively as this worked the compressor 7th-12th stage BLC bleed change over) and also rapid reheat checks. Rapid reheat was selected by a special switch which allowed a more rapid move from approach power settings to full AB in the case of a missed wire - a bolter.

One of my two aircraft needing runs (I was sup'ing a nose leg change on a third) proved a right blighter. The first LIX washes on both engines had not quite done the trick. And so the aircraft was moved up the line and the fuel that had washed down out of the jetpipes was hosed away by a fire-crew. Another LIX wash was carried out on both and after the requisite soak period further run ups of both engines was attempted. The jet pipes had been checked as dry before attempting this.

I managed to get the port engine up to self sustaining but the starboard still proved reluctant - but only just. So having aborted the start, and having the jet pipe rechecked for spare fuel, I sat there with the port engine idling whilst the GT starter on the starboard engine was allowed its alloted time to cool down - and a bit more understanding these brutes. The next attempt ended in a spectacular fireball (well so I was told afterwards) erupting from the starter bay (aux air door) at about that time I noticed two crews with CO2 fire extinguishers moving in - one from front in under the intake and another aft on the same side. I figured it was time to shut down and vacate the cockpit.

The fires in the starter bay and jet pipe area were extinguished without serious damage and shortly thereafter, following a GT starter change the next ground run was completed with all AOK.

Interesting times.

The orange circle in the pic' above highlights a U/C door with a stainless steel patch at one corner, the result of one of those heavy landings.
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ULTIMA1
post Feb 15 2011, 02:17 PM
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QUOTE (Omega892R09 @ Feb 13 2011, 04:47 PM) *
Spot on. thumbsup.gif

The starboard lower aux-air door is ringed in cyan.


The Americen version J79-GE15/17s only had the lower aux doors.

Have you ever tried to do a engine start using a cartridge?

Usually on the J79-GE15/17 you ended up getting at least one bad cart , so you would end up only getting one engine started. Sometimes you would get two bad carts and could not get either engine started.
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ULTIMA1
post Feb 15 2011, 02:21 PM
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By the way, i was stationed at RAF Alconbury from 1981 to 1983 and worked on the Recon F-4.
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